View Full Version : Need: Tactical data about Zerg
Hawthorne
03-19-2005, 1:14 AM
Well give me the best tactics for a zerg against terran or protoss, I want everything although my tactics are great most of my partners in 2v2 get beaten up early and it's difficult killing a terran and protoss when you're a zerg all alone :P
Hotorn
ReD_ICE
03-19-2005, 2:10 AM
2:2..becoming 2:1 early in the game? thats harsh...it would depend on each of the three of ur skills
MidnightGladius
03-19-2005, 10:06 AM
By three skills, I suppose you mean micro, macro, and economy?
In short, there is no solid way to beat a toss and a terran as zerg unless they're VERY bad at the game. The problem is that you will never be able to hold expos as long as they dual pressure you, and a zerg without expos is a dead, dead zerg.
as far as what I know, macro = economy
Kamikaze_Chicken
03-19-2005, 5:33 PM
well macro can also be used to describe the size of your army...
Calibur
03-19-2005, 6:05 PM
By three skills, I suppose you mean micro, macro, and economy?
In short, there is no solid way to beat a toss and a terran as zerg unless they're VERY bad at the game. The problem is that you will never be able to hold expos as long as they dual pressure you, and a zerg without expos is a dead, dead zerg.
What are you talking about zerg are probably one the best races for taking on the other two, you just have to be fast and versetile. Alright first of all if your playing fastest just amplify the number of units I'm suggesting.
First you need some defense so I'd suggest a combination of hydras, lurkers, and defilers. You don't need that many since the splash damage from lurkers added with the hydras direct damage will kill enemies fast, and the defilers will cover them with cloud. A couple of spores for extra defense and guardians for those pesky ranged units will help too.
Another good tactic is to build your base in layers so that even if your enemy's melee units get past your defense it will take them some time to get to the heart of your base, giving you time to counter attack. Also try not bunch up your upgrade buildings all in the same spot because if the enemy gets to them and destroys them your screwed unless you can rebuild them rather quickly. Try to also have a good number of overlords patrolling in and around base, many people tend to ignore this but they can warn you before time, of surprise attacks and nukes.
Attack tactis, damn I got a ton of them. Well first of all what you should try to do is weaken the enemy before attacking them, queens and defilers are good for this. THe queen can broodlin spawn on mineral gatherers and if this is done frequently the enemy's economy will take a big hit, ofcourse to do this and build up a decent army at the same time takes a good deal of multi-tasking. Defilers plaugue attacks are extremly effective against cluster of terran building, one thing you could try is having a small group of zerglings buried near the enemys base that way you can go in with the defiler, plague, go back to the lings, devour a couple to get the defilers energy back up, and then go back in for even more plagueing.
As for direct attack tactics there is always the old hydralisk/defiler combo which can even take out a group of carriers. Devourers aren't really that great but if the enemy has a large group of air units you can add it to the hydralisk/defiler combination to make it even more effective, just try and have them aim for a cluster of enemy units that way their spores will slow down more of the enemys units. Guardians can be used as and addon to the hydra/defiler combo to add extra destructive power against ground units and are very effective at taking down tanks and other heavy or long ranged melee unit like archons or reavers. Try using all of the defilers ablilities during an attack, both plague and cloud(forgot its real name but its that orange cloud used to deflect ranged attacks) are extremly effective.
Lings can also come in very handy, upgraded to there fullest they are some of the fastest killers in the entire game, in fact their only weakness is their low hp which means that they can be taken out easily by groups of ranged units, that however can be fixed. A quick defiler cloud will allow zergling to swarm and destroy unopposed, sure splash damgae still hurts them but at 2 per 50 minerals they can be replaced rather quickly and in very large numbers. Another good thing to try with lings are overlord drops. You might want to distract the enemy with small attack such as a small hydra/defiler combo. Once you see that enemies attention is focused on your distraction move in with the group of overlords loaded with zergling and unload on the others guys base, if enough of the zergling get out quickly enough, they'll have laid waste to the enemies base in a matter of seconds, defilers are also a good idea to have with the lings, just in case. Another think you could try, but this is more of an early on strategy is burrowing lings near the enemies base and when you see a group of his units leave to attack rushing in with the lings to attack his base.
Some thing else alot of zerg users often ignore is the creep colony, if the opponent isn't zerg then this is kind of hard to use, but if the base has atleast one upatrolled area and its large enough you can sneak in a hatchery and one of these and swarm the crap out of him. You could also try to make one near his base so you can quickly reinforce your forces when you're attacking.
Mutas I don't often use unless it is during the early parts of the game when I first get the tower but they are usefull against groups of low armor melee units, so if you see alot of those a good muta/guardian combo will take care of them quick. During the early parts of the they are also usefull for attacking the enemies mineral gatheres, which you should often try since it can slow down the enemies unit production and upgrading.
Ultras I don't often use, although I tryed some succesfull drops and attacks with them, but I don't often recomend them since they are expensive and rather slow.
Once you have mounted a succesfull attack and broken through the enemies defenses it is a smart thing to try and swtich up your attacks, for example if you just rushed in with lings and hydras, try sending a group of guardians next and vice-versa. This way any defensive counter attack the enemy tries will be rendered useless, lets say for example your enemy pulls out a bunch of firebats to kill all your zergling but instead of sending in more zergling you sent in guardians and the bats can't do shit to them.
Well thats it for now, if you need any more help just say so.
MidnightGladius
03-19-2005, 9:25 PM
I didn't bother reading through the last portion of that, but from what you said, you will have hydras, lurks, defilers, spores, AND guardians by the time they finally decide to attack you. That is a sign of your stupidity or their idiocy.
Secondly, a smart person will go for the creature structures in a zerg base b4 the hatches. Unless you plan on making multiple pools, dens, spires, and caverns, that doesn't really make sense. Also, if you aren't playing LotR, why would you be screwed by the death of your upgrade buildings?
Third thing, if they're toss/terran, why in the world would you have ovies patrolling around your base? Ever hear of ovie popping? If you keep them in your base with some hydras to keep the sairs out, you can still watch for nukes.
Fourth, both of those take a lot of time and a lot of AFK to work with any success. Anyone who lets you spawn broodling their workers over and over is either a psychopath who doesn't mind them dying or a total newb. Same goes with letting defilers run amok in your base.
In short, if you don't have logical advice to give, don't give it.
I dont remember Hotorn asking for money map strats, so dont give 'em to him. They suck, and will always suck. Its only for newbs who want to get a unit or two early game. 2v2... Hmm. Hard to say really.ŽUsually just mass speedlings at the start. If your terran opponent goes machine, like goliath or tanks, make mass hydraklisk with speed and remember to upgrade them. Hydras also will kill the toss, If you remember to dodge psionic storms. :p also start to make lurkers, and the mostly important thing is: Expand early and expand much. Really, its the only way you can have a chance vs 2v1. Remember to keep ligs all over the map so you can see what they do and stuff...
Wait a sec... I think I even have a rep beating 2v1 public noobs. I'll try to find it now...
Yep. Here it is. It's kinda old rep so I suck quite much. But whatever. I guess it will do fine. ;). Just try to do about the same as I do in this If you cant think of else, and make your ally harass them all up like taking their cliffs all the etc. :P. Or just expand and mass units or whatever!
I mean, 1v2 ;o :D and I'm alone. I hope that rep works, since it was played back then to 1.11 and some of them became corrupt :o
Calibur
03-20-2005, 9:45 AM
I dont remember Hotorn asking for money map strats, so dont give 'em to him. They suck, and will always suck. Its only for newbs who want to get a unit or two early game. 2v2... Hmm. Hard to say really.ŽUsually just mass speedlings at the start. If your terran opponent goes machine, like goliath or tanks, make mass hydraklisk with speed and remember to upgrade them. Hydras also will kill the toss, If you remember to dodge psionic storms. :p also start to make lurkers, and the mostly important thing is: Expand early and expand much. Really, its the only way you can have a chance vs 2v1. Remember to keep ligs all over the map so you can see what they do and stuff...
They are not money map strategies I just said that if he was going to play money maps he should just go for larger numbers of units.
I didn't bother reading through the last portion of that, but from what you said, you will have hydras, lurks, defilers, spores, AND guardians by the time they finally decide to attack you. That is a sign of your stupidity or their idiocy.God do we have to start with the insults already. You don't have to have all that stuff and in large numbers, it just takes a small amount of those units and a good deal of versetility. For example a couple of hydras and some sunkens can put up a good starting defense, then once you upgrade your hactchery and then get the lurker evolution you can add lurkers to the force and so on, you dont have to try and make all of them imedietly, heck some you don't even need but they do come in handy.
Secondly, a smart person will go for the creature structures in a zerg base b4 the hatches. Unless you plan on making multiple pools, dens, spires, and caverns, that doesn't really make sense. Also, if you aren't playing LotR, why would you be screwed by the death of your upgrade buildings?
Well lets just say one or two of your hatches are killed, chances are you still have a couple more. But the lets say all of your hydralisk dens are killed, you can't make any more hydralisk until you rebuild a den and if hydralisks are a big part of your strategy then your in deep shit, same thing with all other units. Also it is good to try and have some balance in your base building too many upgrade buildings early on will leave you vunerable to rushes specialy if it's a combined rush between two players, on the other hand if you go strictly for hatcheries at the start you wont really have that much versitility with your units and seeing as how the zerg are specialy stronger when upgraded, that is not very good. So the key would be to have balance in your building strategy.
Third thing, if they're toss/terran, why in the world would you have ovies patrolling around your base? Ever hear of ovie popping? If you keep them in your base with some hydras to keep the sairs out, you can still watch for nukes.
What do you perfer a couple of ovies being popped or a bc/tank drop being shoved up your ass. You don't need that many ovies patrolling but every unit has a job and the ovies job is scout and dectector and transport unit so why not use it.
Fourth, both of those take a lot of time and a lot of AFK to work with any success. Anyone who lets you spawn broodling their workers over and over is either a psychopath who doesn't mind them dying or a total newb. Same goes with letting defilers run amok in your base.
Versitily and speed as I've said before are key, you have to know how to coordinate attacks, try different angles of entrance, know where the weak points in your opponents defence are, if your not good at multitasking then this is not the strategy for you.
In short, if you don't have logical advice to give, don't give it. Thanks for the advice, but let me ask you something do you have any advice to give him or are you just here to call me an idiot.
X-Master2
03-20-2005, 9:53 AM
I mean, 1v2 ;o :D and I'm alone. I hope that rep works, since it was played back then to 1.11 and some of them became corrupt :o
it should work, unless you know for a fact that it is corrupted, unlike WC3, SC can play most any replays, from any patch.
MidnightGladius
03-20-2005, 3:34 PM
Hehe Calibur, I just realized something. If they're playing a 4 (or 3) player map, look at the preview and WORKER RUSH MUHAHAHA.
Seriously though, it would work.
ReD_ICE
03-21-2005, 5:28 AM
there's really no point in saying so much...becuz there is hardly anyway an average player can win 2 other average players, unless the 2 noobs are incredibly dumb. 1v2, originally, explains an unfair game in terms of everything, cuz everything on the other team could be said as doubled (resources, units, building speed, 2-person micro, flank harrassing, etc)
Hawthorne
03-26-2005, 2:24 PM
Well I have beaten with a zerg 12 terran players who were one of the best in the region a few years ago but their tactics were completely 100% identical.
Tank rush with a few marines.
I dug our about 48 zerglings with fast run,fast bite + 2 upgrades on attack & armor and destroyed both their armies after which I made a ling + mutalisk attack on each of them at the same time wiping them out simultaneously.
That's the only win I've had in a 1v2 match.
The other games when it's a toss & ter hich it normally is I lose.
I make half wins against zerg + terr or toss players because I wipe the zerg out easily but terr or toss counter attacks.
Hotorn
MidnightGladius
03-26-2005, 7:30 PM
I doubt any terran who was formerly best in the region would do a tank/rine rush without medics... And how did you have 48 2/2 cracklings when they both rushed you?
But then, how in the world did you get them to play you?
ReD_ICE
03-26-2005, 10:05 PM
lol...may i add, how did u win in the end? its a 1v2 match, i think it would be hard to win even 1v1 considering they're the best players of the region.
Hawthorne
03-27-2005, 12:58 AM
They're the best terran players in the region while I am one of the ex-champion zerg player in the region, gave up championships a year ago...(well I'm still gonna compete in WCG but that's a challange)
Well they said they needed training for some new championship.
I brought down a newbie to teach him a few tricks and we duked it out.
Well the did have medics but they made a catastrophical mistake.
I had planted 2 12 lings where they expanded their tanks and 2 12 lings where the end of their line was.
Their marines with tight in to their tanks but the medics were way back.
I killed the medics and attacked tanks & marines from both sides.
Then I did an attack with the lings I had which were about 30 left and with about 14 mutas which I had been keepings in reserve just in case something went wrong.
Double duke and they were beaten.
It wasn't easy though it was a pretty long game, normally I win or lose in the first 10 minutes.
Well Red as I said I am one of the ex-champions of the region, one of the terran players is the new champion the other was the vice champion when I was champion but is currently at 5th spot this year.
Hotorn
A few things you must say before I belive your "champion" story :P.
1. Where are you from?
2. Most known B.net akas?
3. Mirror(s) u play?
4. "the champion terran" aka
5. some of your replays
For the stuff I've heard you say at SC.org and stuff, before you prove this things right, im not gonna belive that :P
DragonPaladin
03-29-2005, 9:59 PM
It's time to play Starcraft: Hypothetical Situation again!
Ok. Let's say you are about equal in forces, economy, skill, and whatever.
This game will take long but if you have time...
1. Fortress
A. You must grasp every advantage. The two enemies will underestimate you and that could be their folly.
B. You will need a rock-solid defense. Let's think you were playing a non-fastest map. Try controlling three expansions. Choose the main one you started with for your "Production" base. The other two are mining extensions. All three need to be protected.
C. You are not playing any Zerg so you don't need to worry about Dark Swarm, Plague, and Nydus Canals.
D. But you still got Recall, and Siege Tanks to worry about...
E. Attack the Terran? Go to 2A
F. Attack the Toss? Go to 2B
2A. Terran Strike
A. Try aiming for his economy. If you see his forces, try to lure them into range of defense. Then hammer them with everything you got and Dark swarm. If they have siege Tanks, Dark Swarm is useless. Then try to route his economy and beat off a second attack and then take out his buildings. You don't have to completely destroy, cripple him and keep and eye on him. Go to 3.
2B Protoss Strike
A. Try plaguing and massively hit him. Cripple economy and then buildings/plyons. DO NOT WASTE ANY UNITS. Keep buildings repeatly.
3. Bufff
A. If they attack in unison, try to divide your forces in half and micro like hell, conserve units and use your defense as cover. A bunch of spores attacking battlecruiser while fighting devorurs can cause lots if hell. Watch out for warps near you mining colonies. Be watchful. I would write more but I don't have time. Be sure you can change tech as soon as you can.
ReD_ICE
03-30-2005, 2:38 AM
If they have siege Tanks, Dark Swarm is useless. this is not true in 1.12 anymore. Even splash wont work against swarm.
Hawthorne
03-30-2005, 2:44 AM
1. Where are you from? - Shumen,Bulgaria
2. Most known B.net akas? - Hotorn
3. Mirror(s) u play? - Headoff
4. "the champion terran" - '99 - MyMarineIsBlue. 2000 - LurkrZZ, 2001 - Gern`PlayerZ, 2002 - Pin|Tant, 2003 - Hotorn,2004 - Antiag74, 2005 - Unknown...
5. some of your replays - I've changed 5 Hard disks the past year, 3 of which burned ouyt, I have some replays on CDs but my current Windows is busted and it doesn't show me the cd-rom so ....
Hawthorne
still kinda dont belive... whatever... Bulgaria might not have so "extremely" good players then...
thefazant
03-30-2005, 9:35 AM
hawthorne you are fucking full of shit, the current nr 1 bulgarian terran is beast aka 3wd.christian who got 3rd in WCG last year and who is an incredibly player, you are a fucking newbie who is making shit up.
if you are telling me you beat beast and lamer (nr 2 bulgarian) in a 1v2 then you must be hallucinating.
btw, by the time you can get +2 attack cracklings out, the terran will have a lot more then a few tanks and m&m.
to make it short, you are completely lying and you are a shitty newbie.
Yaqoob
03-30-2005, 10:53 AM
lol...if this kid beat 3wd.christian, we'd all have to take lessons from him, btw, show us a replay, you must have some replays on websites if you are so good...
Hawthorne
03-30-2005, 12:29 PM
Ok I repeat myself you are all idiots.
The Champiuonship of the town of Shumen, a town of 100/000 population.
Not the champion of bulgaria or the capitol of Sofia.
I was talking about hte number 1 players only in my hometown, every town has a championship every year it's hosted by the internet & game caffee clubs.
I would never dream to play against 3wd.Christian, he's too muh of a challange for anyone in bulgaria.
Heck I'm gonna try in the WCG Qualifying rounds for Cs & BW for the first time this year, 'cus on the 10th of April I'll have the needed 14 years.
And by the way: 3wD.Christian is the best bulgarian terran player.
It is still nto decided which is the best protoss player, the zerg champion of Bulgaria was a guy calling himself TriBaL or something like that I can't recall the name.
PS: The players in Shumen are rated the best 2v2 players, but we're kind of mediocre hwen it comes to 1v1.
Hawthorne
hehe :D Or maybe there was some other "tournament of bulgaria" where only some participated, and which made him the "best of bulgaria" oh yea, you told it now...
Yaqoob
03-30-2005, 1:42 PM
Maybe a 1v1 Hawthorne vs thefazant would clear things up...
Hawthorne being the "best" Zerg on this board (supposedly) and thefazant being the best Terran on this board (without a doubt)
Post the Replay, and we can see how good you are...
DragonPaladin
03-30-2005, 4:19 PM
I played 1.14 or the most current versions and I blew a Zerg's Hydras away with Tanks while my ally toss was forming a wall of goons.
thefazant
03-30-2005, 8:35 PM
hayley is by far the best zerg on these boards
Ya, and I can say for sure I'm not the worst Zerg :D. Well, hay and faz are better than me, but really, It doesn't take much to be top 5 of this board. Actually, I think I might win hotorn even with My T :D
DragonPaladin
03-30-2005, 10:07 PM
I can beat the comp...I know that's not much...
Hawthorne
03-30-2005, 11:00 PM
Told you ain't got any of the old replays.
Plus as I said I've stopped competing seriously, only practise my 2v2 for fun.
Dedicated most of my time to making ladder maps & Fan Fictions at sc.org
Plus I can't join any B.net server, my original code isn't accepted so I play on the biggerst free server in Europe Headoff which is a Bulgarian server but goes to Belarus and Russia...
ReD_ICE
03-31-2005, 7:55 PM
I can beat the comp...I know that's not much... that explains a lot about the shit u talk, lol....
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