StarCraft.org Mods

[DeltaForce]

alrighty, theres been lots of talk and unrest on the site. i have proposed the idea of mods on the site as there are mods here too. i was just wondering who should be included or if there should even be anyone included. also, just a side though, should SC.org have its own fourm/chat site?

crap! poll isn't working. eh, ne ways, the choices are DeltaSquad, protogod, Daimyo5, DFIK. SciFiFreak90 said he ddidn't want to be mod, so don't grill me on that. for now, those are the choices. if anymore ideas, post, but unless u have someone backing u, u can't vote urself.

[Basan]

What kind or mods are you really speaking of? If you're refering to staff personel, SC.org already has'em (and had, even before the worm screwin' up the site) (http://www.warboards.org/showgroups.php?) as you can see at the bottom of this site's entry page. We, 'mere mortals' just didn't noticed'em that much... :angel:

But if you're talking of SC mods such as those mentioned from sorta time to time (bear with me) in the SC Depot section (http://www.warboards.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19) the site already had'em too. Alas, before the worm attack on it some folks of these parts posted theirs there and linked it here when 'cussing those in threads. As you can tell until the site is back up in full strength those are directly posted here when debating balancing issues n' so on. ;)

Btw, wasn't this any better if posted in the SC Debriefing Room area? *Hint, hint* :)

[DeltaForce]

lol, obviously u haven't been to SC.org, as in the SC.org. yes, we know there are admins already, but we want mods that are more.. interactive. n/o to the existing admins. they will have powers as to clean out bad maps, stories, like mods here.

again, n/o to the now existing mods, but we have had prolems and it takes the admins too long to respond. we desire to have members that are on the site everyday (i know, nerds) that can take some of the jobs, gtg, back to post later, lunch!

[Basan]

This SC.org (http://www.starcraft.org/)? Before I became a poster 'round here I lurked there.
Wow... If the discussions board link there just redirects you here, there's not a big fuss imo. And I just happen to prefer it that way either... ;)

[Protogod]

we have gained nothing from this thread yet, sad. well allow me to better explain our position. basically there is only 1 consistent mod who is there enough. We need more, and as members and vets we decided that members should be able to become mods, but this isnt a major issue yet, hence the need for this thread. and delta i agree but ive already been in an argument saying a lot of people are nerds and i dont want to start again.

[Basan]

we have gained nothing from this thread yet, sad. well allow me to better explain our position. basically there is only 1 consistent mod who is there enough. We need more, and as members and vets we decided that members should be able to become mods, but this isnt a major issue yet, hence the need for this thread. and delta i agree but ive already been in an argument saying a lot of people are nerds and i dont want to start again.

As usual forum life, when the site staff find the need for new personel and if they like your posting posture with all that relevant jazz, they'll simply ask you to it. If you took the offer or not, that's your own choice from that point onwards.
You may ask around here to see if that's true or not... or even use the inborn search feature (if that's possible) to find the answer for yourself. ;)

I was just stating in an sidewinded manner (leaving clues 'round) that this isn't the usual way to ask to become a mod or site staff, even if it isn't direct one. Since it isn't much appreciated either, to say the least. *Hint, hint* :)

[Protogod]

we dont care if it is usual or not. we are trying to get new mods, and besides that this is the way to do it with the least damage. if we said more on sc.org we would just be making a nuisance of ourselves. this forum has room to spare.

[Basan]

we dont care if it is usual or not. we are trying to get new mods, and besides that this is the way to do it with the least damage. if we said more on sc.org we would just be making a nuisance of ourselves. this forum has room to spare.

*Sigh* I rest my case... since you don't seem to grasp the concept.

[Black.Ice]

Moved to ORG Network Support.

I really don't know whether the administration is looking for more mods, but there is no harm in asking.

[Protogod]

*Sigh* I rest my case... since you don't seem to grasp the concept.
what "concept" are you talking about. look, we need more mods. its that simple. if we are going to have new mods we want them to be people we trust, as in other members.

[DeltaForce]

yes, we do need more mods. imo, the admins are great and all, but we really need more pr ppl. pplk just aren't satisfied with what they have at the moment. don't get me wrong, the staff are doing a greatt job on the site, but there is more going on then updating the site and all. ppl want info or at times, juss a sort of more mature person to interfer in an argument/spam and resolve it thus.

Basan, i know this isn't the best way to get their attention, but the last time i pmed them, took about 3-4 days for a reply. its great for little bugs and stuff, but an issue this big in which most the population has agreeded on needs more seriousl thingking and also thier own throughts and ideas

plez consider this from our point of view. most pplk there don't like to fourm surf or come here.

[Schwitzer]

My activity has been severely hampered due to a burst water main that caused around $5 million worth of damage and effectively cut off my Internet. Apparently not making a news post for a week renders me inactive. Hmm.

If you're going to make a song and dance about things that need attention, would you mind pointing them out, instead of just claiming that they exist? Effectively all I've got out of this thread is, "A couple of us have decided that things aren't been dealt with. We demand more mods. Here's your list of mods to choose from."

[Protogod]

If you're going to make a song and dance about things that need attention, would you mind pointing them out, instead of just claiming that they exist? Effectively all I've got out of this thread is, "A couple of us have decided that things aren't been dealt with. We demand more mods. Here's your list of mods to choose from."
two words: fuck, and you. that statement was very condescending. Be it the phrasing, the mood, or any other things, that was simply an insult. Look, you want specific problems? here: bugs are a common annoyance, there are only two mods, the site is rarely updated, the popular and new fanfiction, maps, and strategies are updated even less frequently than should be expected its gotten to the point where half the things submittted skip the new list and are sent directly into the archives, genaric problems on the site arent dealt with nearly fast enough.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

Protogod you may be a so called vet in starcraft.org but you do NOT have the right to say fuck you to Schwitzer with those reasons of yours. If you called the new people at sc.org noobs, then i'm calling you a noob here right now. Schwitzer is an admin of both starcraft.org AND warboards.org, and as far as I can see, he has each and every right to condescend upon you.

First off, bugs are not fixed by the admins/mods (at least in sc.org). They are fixed by the server provider, so getting another mod who neither the skills of website programming nor the authority to alter the server would be appointing a tyrant into a gaming community who would do no benefit but for himself and his friends. Site updates are a downer, yes, but you forget the mods have a life and sometimes things are slow. You're not going to be a mod anytime soon with that attitude.

I agree with SciFi on this issue: you do not need a mod because there is no threatening situation in which it endangers the essence of the gaming community. All you are looking for is the power to delete posts and ban other players that contradict your beliefs, and if that is granted to you then starcraft.org would effectively become a graveyard that consists of only about five active members of your group, or your so called vet pals.

[Schwitzer]

two words: fuck, and you.
At least it's obvious who we won't need to consider, should we require moderators.

that statement was very condescending. Be it the phrasing, the mood, or any other things, that was simply an insult.
No, an insult would be something along the lines of "two words: fuck, and you." All I did was point out that in everything that has been said in the entire thread can be summarised in two sentences.

Look, you want specific problems? here: bugs are a common annoyance,
What bugs? Where? How do they occur? Less ambiguity, please.

there are only two mods,
Size is not an issue.

the site is rarely updated, the popular and new fanfiction, maps, and strategies are updated even less frequently than should be expected its gotten to the point where half the things submittted skip the new list and are sent directly into the archives,
Aah, is that what you're worked up about; things not being approved fast enough. Should've just said it straight out. Unfortunately my inability to use the Internet has made approvals somewhat difficult, so BST was forced to cover everything when his busy schedule allowed. If we really find that we cannot keep up, a suitable member will be appointed to help out - but I hardly think basing such a judgement on the previous fortnight is informed nor necessary.

genaric problems on the site arent dealt with nearly fast enough.
Generic statements don't help much, either.

[Protogod]

At least it's obvious who we won't need to consider, should we require moderators.
No, an insult would be something along the lines of "two words: fuck, and you." All I did was point out that in everything that has been said in the entire thread can be summarised in two sentences.
What bugs? Where? How do they occur? Less ambiguity, please.
Size is not an issue.
Aah, is that what you're worked up about; things not being approved fast enough. Should've just said it straight out. Unfortunately my inability to use the Internet has made approvals somewhat difficult, so BST was forced to cover everything when his busy schedule allowed. If we really find that we cannot keep up, a suitable member will be appointed to help out - but I hardly think basing such a judgement on the previous fortnight is informed nor necessary.
Generic statements don't help much, either. i see, before anyone else says it, technically there are more than 2 mods, but none of the others take an active role in the site's populous. as for the topic: ok, if i dont get accepted, oh well. look, stupid flame comments arent dealt with. Theres also a gap in relations with the members. It is not common enough that a mod will help the members when something happens. Virtually anything bad. There need to be more people just to explain what is happening, and reassure the people. I can tell that despite my qualifications, I will be passed over because of my impatience for condescending statements. Yes, actually it was. It was a passive-aggressive insult, you probably didnt even realize it, but subconsciously it was just another way to reaffirm your position above everyone else. Also, there was no need to "summarize everyhting in two sentences" and apparently you couldnt, because your post WASNT TWO SENTENCES. Besides, I already said that there wasnt much coming out of this thread. Boo hoo, so i dont get to be a mod. There are plenty of other qualified members that i trust as mods. To win, you would have to crash yourself, and take us down with you. Ya, I did insult you, I admit it. So, what are you gonna do about it. Ive said my piece. this is my rant. do you have a rebuttle?

edit- i missed unholy assasin's stance. well, BOO FUCKING HOO. I can say whatever I want. Call me a noob. I'll take it. Ill suffer whatever fate I have to for what I believe in. So what if im not a mod? It'd be fun, but it doesnt have to be me. I DONT GIVE A DAMN. I truly believe we need someone to work in the interests of the people. Yes, mods are already doing that, and a damn good job for what they have, but seriously things can be done to add comfort for the user. I know I may not speak on behalf of delta, and I apologize if i offended you in particular. if i did im truly sorry, but if this can make it easier, or better in any way for the other people on sc.org then ill take this crap. ill put up with it for them.

[Kopaka]

Sounds funky to me, but are the users of SC.org, not us here discussing it, complaing about the problem. Think about it, it might not be ok for you, although I have to admit I haven't been to SC.org in some time, but it might be ok for them. And also, maybe the people at SC.org should hire new people to help them. It is sorta there problem, and maybe we should help them fix it instead of trying to take over. (And if I'm completly not thinking about the same thing or something, then sorry.)

[UnHoly-Assassin]

There is little problem other than the ones a certain group of "vets" has caused by demanding the impossible out of the site. They're pissed because people are posting comments like "This rocks! I love this! keep it up!" on comment sections. They've been spamming all over the website now. Now they want to be mods, so they have even more power.

I truly believe we need someone to work in the interests of the people.
You mean your vetty friends. Because clearly most of the "people" are "noobs", and that they should be censored.

[Schwitzer]

as for the topic: ok, if i dont get accepted, oh well. look, stupid flame comments arent dealt with.
We don't generally appoint flamers to a position that requires them to deal with flames.

Theres also a gap in relations with the members. It is not common enough that a mod will help the members when something happens. Virtually anything bad.
We give help whenever it's asked.

There need to be more people just to explain what is happening, and reassure the people.
Reassure the people? What are you on about? It's not like we're under attack by aliens or anything like that.

I can tell that despite my qualifications, I will be passed over because of my impatience for condescending statements.
"Qualifications", eh? At any rate, I've already mentioned that we're currently not looking for staff. You seem to have got in into your head that there are going to be additional mods coming out of this.

Yes, actually it was. It was a passive-aggressive insult, you probably didnt even realize it, but subconsciously it was just another way to reaffirm your position above everyone else.
You strung a lot of nice-sounding terms into that sentence. How unfortunate that the end result was pure bullshit. Being on the staff had nothing to do with how I posted; I would've called you out on making baseless claims even if I were a normal member.

Also, there was no need to "summarize everyhting in two sentences" and apparently you couldnt, because your post WASNT TWO SENTENCES.
It seems you've missed the point of that comment completely. Either that, or you're deliberately splitting hairs to make up for baseless arguments.

Besides, I already said that there wasnt much coming out of this thread. Boo hoo, so i dont get to be a mod. There are plenty of other qualified members that i trust as mods.
And... ?

To win, you would have to crash yourself, and take us down with you.
"To win"? Aren't we all striving for the singular goal of an active StarCraft community, or do you have alterior motives? What's this crap about crashing things, by the way?

Ya, I did insult you, I admit it. So, what are you gonna do about it. Ive said my piece. this is my rant. do you have a rebuttle?
Yes, I do. Here's my rebuttle: What is your bloody point? What, exactly, are you trying to argue here? Why can't you give me concrete examples of anything or answer my questions? Why, why, why?

[Protogod]

You mean your vetty friends. Because clearly most of the "people" are "noobs", and that they should be censored. at least you are reasonable in this point, however filled that comment was with contempt. you are acting like we are tyrants. look at all governments, the media is censcored, hmm...let me think, who decided how to cescor it? the government. admittedly, this isnt a government, but thats an example. I am filled with just as much contempt for you, as you are clearly filling your messages for me. as it would seem there is a progression: normal guy becomes noob becomes average member becomes vet. it would seem as though a vet would have experience with all the stages. noobs want help, which we can give. We show them how to follow rules, and what is and isnt acceptable. I realize right now that I am crossing the line. However, that is another lesson. Its one that you can only decide for yourself, when is it ok to cross the line? In fact, most vets actually do care about the community. imagine that!

look, what about scifi? he flamed for a good reason, just as I am now. You are filled with just as much bullshit as you are saying I am. You are simply dismissing what I say as rubbish because I am saying them in an angry fashion, and you disagree with me. You may have never said you wanted now mods, but that doesnt make them any less necessary. and to "win" you ask, to win this argument. I say that because there will always be people who disagree with the way things are, and will be willing to go just as far as me, if not farther. Im saying that there are people who would be good mods, whether you want to believe me or not. If they would be good mods, and mods would be helpful, why not have them as mods? And my psychoanalytical statement is in fact, true. Subconsciously you know you are in a place of power, and as I said are reaffirming, or making it clear/obvious to the rest of us that you want to be better. I was just trying to make sc.org better for everyone, but clearly this idea isnt going to be taken seriously. You say you give help when anything is asked. Well whenever you get around to it, yes. Waiting is generally not enjoyed. no instant responses are necessary, but waiting almost a week for a simple problem is ridiculous.

[DragonPaladin]

You people need to settle down and take the situation in hand.
Situation:
-There are suppose to be 4 mods, at least, working on starcraft.org.
-When I was on the starcraft.org old site, the ficiton list was updated almost daily.
-I liked the old site better actually.
-Do we need new mods?
1. Are the ones we have now not working?
a. Why are they not working?
1. Lack of motivation?
2. Miscellanous Problems.
b. Too busy?
1. Is this reliable?
2. Just a coincidence?
2. How do we get new ones?
a. Just hire/volunteer new ones?
1. From a Blizzard place?
2. Post resumes
3. Problems
a. Do they know about starcraft?
b. Do they have the experience?
b. From Starcraft.org
1. Problems
a. Conflict of Interest
b. Inexperienced.
c. To stressful.

I myself am an active person on Starcraft.org. I've written several conscending stories. I think the stories section should be a minature scroll-down menu with recently submitted or approved stories first. All one has to do is scroll to read.

Note: I'm currently written a 122-page, 52000 word, manuscipt on the ending after Brood War. It's only 1/3 done. I'll posted it when I'm finished. So far, I've been working on it for 6 months.

Those who follow him wherever he goes...

[DeltaForce]

look, guys calm down. i didn't intend to get results such as this. i was seriously trying to get something working. Swch, i'm srry if i offended u by posting this before ur approval, but some things imo though were needed to be done. i can understand if ur mad at me, and i take full responsibility of this as it was my idea, my post, and overall, just me.

SAVE THE WORLD has been on since the site re-vamp. over 300 comments, and more a flame war or two deleated in there. i know u guys have extreamly busy lives, and don't live to serve us. that's y i propose (propose, not tell u to, or all that, just an idea) that we have a mod or 2.

again, i'm really srry if i have again caused proplems, and like before, i take full responsibilities.

in a way, i contradict unholy. i was never on the holy crusaide, never flamed and i try to help all the writers the best i can. i'm juss saying, there are good people that used to come to the site but now don't.

Zerg0nator seemed to have vanished. SPARTAN_117 is gone. Gamewiz and Daimyo are really inactive. starcraftscwm, one of my old buddies are also gone.

in no way is this ur fault. this isn't what i'm getting at. what i'm trying to say is, mods could get ppl more active, calmer. u guys spend more time here, as it is more fum (even imo), but there are others more dedicated to the other site. plez give us a chance.

rebuke my ideas, but blame no others except me, unless it is a personal insult

[Demon_Child]

I just love seeing people (mainly protogod36) who try to throw their weight around in a community unfamiliar to them thinking that they should demand the same kind of respect that the supposedly get at other communities. Well, I hate to break it to you, but you are certainly not playing in the same league here at Warboards like you are at Starcraft.org. In fact, if you really want to ruffle some feathers of the true "veterans" of Starcraft.org, then be my guest. I just hope for your sake that you can handle the Demon to whom you are awakening.

[Neo]

I say we start banning outright people who flame on sc.org for 2 weeks (read: temp ban) and go from there.

SC.Org users seem to not understand community.

SC.Org is not yours, and its not a place for free speech, no matter what you believe. I believe that a harsher stance needs to be taken, even appointing a few temp mods to SC.Org from WB to temp ban (if possible) users who just arent getting it.

No matter how much a vet you are it wont matter. Ive seen communities lose 15 of the oldest most respected members and continue on, so dont act as if your single handledly holding the site up.

-Neo

EDIT: After reading various Fan Fiction comments (since this seems to be a major part of the problem) I am really... well not shocked, but really disgusted that the way new writers are treated. I mean wtf? And a keep seeing people yelling at other for submiting Drafts and what not. Wow, and I think we need to arrange some humor transplants for quite a few people.

[Schwitzer]

again, i'm really srry if i have again caused proplems, and like before, i take full responsibilities.
There was no need for you to appologise.

[Protogod]

that is correct, delta this is my fault. i believe in it, but its my fault. im not throwing my weight around. fine, dont think of me as a vet, just think of me as some guy. lets talk about it seriously, ok? and by the way, they way new users are treated is another problem to solve.

[DeltaForce]

my point of mods is not all omniscient gods. mods there should be like mods here, respectful, hardworking, and very intune with the community.

btw neo, in no way do i mean any offense, but have u spent alot of time on a peice of work, like a rp thread, and then had a bunch of ppl submitt things only a few paragraphs without standard spellcheck? i don't mind at all helping the newer writers develop, but i hate it how some work is not taken into consideration. they write like i'm writing this post. no caps, no normal spell check and so on.

i've been on the site a few years and the reasons for my lack of submissions is that i get pushed off in less then a day. it is improving now, but after spending 6 months on a peice of work u really love, u will be compleatly dissapointed. plez, understand this from those that take thier writing into serious consideration.

ya, i'm a nerd, i spent 6 months on a story, but i take pride in my work. i expect to get comments that say it is good, and they enjoyed it. i don't wnat ppl to be dissapointed by the story cuse they are tracking mistakes every sentence. imo, SC fanfic is for displaying FINISHED stories, and to develop ppl's abilities after they have done their best. if u give it ur all, we will help them finish any loop holes or problems, but i can't stories like

"1 daes zergs came to a base with 100000000000000000 hydras, 3218438 gaurds, and then shooted them up to little bits.

[Mystikal]

Hi Guys,

I am the head developer at Starcraft.org for those who don’t know. Whoever stated that the bugs get fixed by the service provider is technically correct. However, I am the developer and the service provider for Starcraft.org

I coded both the original (although, BSTRhino fixed the majority of the site’s bugs and added a lot of features – which was greatly appreciated!) and the current Starcraft.org site. The current Starcraft.org site is much more powerful than the old one and coded with a few ideas in mind: reliability, extensibility, and speed.

You guys have no idea just how adaptable this content management system is that’s running the site. There was a point where the database was down for 6 hours and no one noticed ;) Yes, that’s right, the database server was down and the site was still able to be viewed normally. Although, you couldn’t post new comments, search, or submit content. However, everything was able to be read just fine. This is because I have a very interesting and quite ingenious caching system for database result sets.

Anyway, Schwitzer, while I do agree that people need to be extensive and thorough with their questions and comments regarding our community’s web site, there are some apparent problems with the current site, which I will address below.

Before I address these issues let me first say to those who still like the old site better. Just to let you know, the new site is not finished. Yes, I know, it looks “finished.” It’s not – nowhere close. But, it’s 6 times better than the old one. Why six? That’s how much our hits have increased since the remodel. Yes, that’s right, by 600%. So we’re obviously heading in the right direction or else people would not continue to be coming back after such a disastrous crash and drastic alteration of not only the site’s look and feel but way it works.

Now let me address all of these “problems” that exist with the site and there are a few. First of all, as someone pointed out, we need moderators. Wait what? The administrators are admitting that they need help!? Yeah, I am at least. I know that Gibb, myself, Rhino, Schwitzer, etc, are all busy with school and life in general. We cannot check the site every day and there will be days where none of us can attend to the proper duties of the site – especially not looking and searching out countless flame wars and users who need attitude adjustments. In fact, instead of trying to deal with the user and coax them into being a normal, responsible user, we simply ban them. Why? It’s easier and we have the ban stick. We need moderators to deal with users if possible and to try and coax them into being a responsible poster. Will it work? Not necessarily, but I think for some it will. Moderators’ day-to-day duties would include filtering content comments and trying to control discussion to keep discussions on topic and flame free.

Secondly, the strategies section is just out of control. This was obvious since the day we moved the old ones over. We cannot be expected to read through these and approve them on a case-to-case basis. We don’t have time! That’s another reason why we need to hire some people who can specialize in certain tasks such as reading and then making an informed decision to approve/deny submissions as well as filtering the current repository of strategies.

The same goes with fiction. In fact, what I will describe in a paragraph or two will undoubtedly surprise you where we’re heading with user submitted content – we haven’t done anything like this and it will greatly change the look of our site. However, I’m not entirely sure yet how I’m going to accomplish this “idea,” and that’s why I’m being so generic (not to mention I haven’t even approved it with the others).

Another problem is the “serials.” We have this ability for users to take each of their submissions, and organize them into little serial novel type things. They can choose any type of document and even upload a title image. This will allow them to create storylines, etc. The problem is no one knows how to use it since we obviously haven’t targeted it appropriately.

Okay so let’s get back to this idea I am toying around with. Basically, we have another problem and my “idea” will solve this problem. The problem is that Google is spidering less and less of our pages every day. One might wonder why when we are adding content daily! Well, it’s simple. Google ranks pages higher that have a greater inbound link to outbound link ratio. When we have news on the front page and begin linking to outside postings, our ratio decreases, therefore decreasing our page rank. When your page rank goes down, Google starts spidering pages at a slower rate. Google spiders the more popular pages more often – for good reason! Keep in mind that Google is not the only one that does this. The new MSN beta does this as well and at even a faster rate, although from what I hear the algorithms are currently a bit flawed so we’ll have to see. However, 7 out of 10 searches are done at Google, so we’re pretty much concentrating on Google from this point forward until we’ve tweaked it enough.

The idea that I have is not entirely removing news from the front page, but instead moving it to a different area and having the user click on the headline which will link them to a news page containing the full story. This will reduce the number of outbound links by a decent amount. We could do that or we can make the links pass-through links which go through a secondary script to link outside the site.

The problem isn’t really a Google problem actually. The main reason why I wanted to move news off the front page or to a condensed area is because our user submitted content is now the primary source of user activity. Therefore, it needs to be focused a bit better. I’m thinking if we move the site’s news (which honestly only gets updated once or twice a week) to a condensed area it will leave more room to put a lot more of the user submitted content in the focus – which obviously changes more rapidly than news does, therefore increasing the maximum exposure ability of every user’s stories, strategies, maps, etc.

Whew, that was a long post. I don’t know when we’ll hire mods or if we will, but I honestly think we need them.

[Neo]

my point of mods is not all omniscient gods. mods there should be like mods here, respectful, hardworking, and very intune with the community.

btw neo, in no way do i mean any offense, but have u spent alot of time on a peice of work, like a rp thread, and then had a bunch of ppl submitt things only a few paragraphs without standard spellcheck? i don't mind at all helping the newer writers develop, but i hate it how some work is not taken into consideration. they write like i'm writing this post. no caps, no normal spell check and so on.

i've been on the site a few years and the reasons for my lack of submissions is that i get pushed off in less then a day. it is improving now, but after spending 6 months on a peice of work u really love, u will be compleatly dissapointed. plez, understand this from those that take thier writing into serious consideration.

ya, i'm a nerd, i spent 6 months on a story, but i take pride in my work. i expect to get comments that say it is good, and they enjoyed it. i don't wnat ppl to be dissapointed by the story cuse they are tracking mistakes every sentence. imo, SC fanfic is for displaying FINISHED stories, and to develop ppl's abilities after they have done their best. if u give it ur all, we will help them finish any loop holes or problems, but i can't stories like

"1 daes zergs came to a base with 100000000000000000 hydras, 3218438 gaurds, and then shooted them up to little bits.

You didnt capatilize a single word in that post except SC and FINISHED.

You enjoy getting positive feedback correct? Well how would you feel if not only were people following every typo (read: small stupid mistakes that dont matter) and then flaming you for them? And why is it that someone posts a semi-Humorous story (or at least try to) and it gets flamed to hell?

Besides that, what if someone has hit a snag? And they have a semi-decent draft... but its not done, perhaps they want to turn it into a part1 part2 type thing, but they submit part1 only to get flamed for not finishing the story/mistakes and then give up?

As for strategies I agree, they are really scary, if I had the access I would prolly go through and start dumping a whole shitload of them. As for fan fiction unless it is obviously a 5 minute job (perhaps warboard's should have a SC.Org FanFiction forum for drafts and general discussion?) then yeah, maybe saying something would be appropiate. But in general, Fiction, especially fan fiction areas shouldnt be restricted heavily. I liked the idea of a word limit (ie: mabe 2000 for short, 5000 for "long" ?) But then again I would hate to see someones work trashed before it was posted just becuase it wasnt long enough. Pykie the probe rejected becuase its not 4000 characters... xP

-Neo

EDIT: Mystikal holy crap, that was the longest post I have seen from you for a long time O_o;;

[0laf]

i wanna be a mod for sc.org. i hav the time and dadicashun for this.

[DeltaForce]

and the english skills, lol.

well, ya, everyone deserves a post, but to a limit. come on. u get my at my post for not going advanced everytime, that's how i get pissed at ppl that take absolutely no prid to their work. i have never spammed anyone and i believe that that is y mods are needed. to control these flamers and to control the types of comments entering the stream of stories.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

So the problem's this: we need more people to help sort strategies and fanfiction. Then we need someone who is completely unbaised, and that would most likely involve someone who either never debated at sc.org or someone reliable from warboards to transfer there. If that's the case, then by all means go for it. But we do not need to give the power to ban or delete posts yet. The other mods can do that. What I'm concerned about is that whoever's appointed would start targeting certain members and start discriminating against them.

[NZRox]

Pipe down, proto. The admins are doing everybody a favor by keeping the site running. Instead of criticizing them for problems, why don't you look at the bright side for a change. You and your group of 'vets' are the sole cause of trouble at the SC.org. The lot of you act like you're superior to the rest, but that's where you're mistaken. You're the scum of the site; you're a bunch of weaklings. You know why? Because you need an excuse like having been there longer to make yourself special. You can't make a name for yourself with your work and honesty. No, that would be too noble. Take a hike.

As for the mods, well they're certainly needed, but finding someone who is unbiased isn't gonna be easy. I think everyone at SC.org has taken sides, including the admins. The rules just aren't strict enough to keep troublemakers in line. Overall, proper retribution is lacking. There just isn't a friendly atmosphere at the site. Instead being patted on the back and being told to try a bit harder next time, people are flamed. The problem is caused by the group of vets who act like they own the place. They're like a bunch of babies demanding milk from their mothers' breasts.

I'll stop there. It's truly disgusting what the 'vets' have done to the site. Anyhow, good luck with finding a mod.

[DragonPaladin]

Ouch! We got told...

[DeltaForce]

totally agreed with unholy.

also, NZR, u will never find a person compleatly unbiased, even from the warboards. sides will be taken no matter what. that is y it must be made with the utmost care. i'm pretty sure we all agree they are needed. now is the question of who, and what they are allowed to do

[Protogod]

look, NZRox, no one was insulting for a few posts, and i tried to end it when i said to talk about it seriously, people like you are just as much to blame as me. You cant let it go. why do you insult vets? we are experienced, why should we be punished for that. the amount of trouble that we make is directly porportional to hoiw much more we post than noobs.

[0laf]

and the english skills, lol.

well, ya, everyone deserves a post, but to a limit. come on. u get my at my post for not going advanced everytime, that's how i get pissed at ppl that take absolutely no prid to their work. i have never spammed anyone and i believe that that is y mods are needed. to control these flamers and to control the types of comments entering the stream of stories.
you don't have to be so mean to me

its not like your english skills aer too much better

newayz, if finding a person who is relyable is the problem i sugest having a community modurating sytem. what i mean by this is if >10 ppl want to cloes or delete a thread / comment, then it'll automatically do it.

that way one power hungary person can't go around and cauze problems.

what do u think?

[UnHoly-Assassin]

They could just create 10 accounts and practically control the whole site.

SC.org is a big community, so maybe it'll work if there needs to be a hundred people in favor of locking down a thread.

[0laf]

They could just create 10 accounts and practically control the whole site.
what about ip checks then? they can't possibly create 10 different ip addresses.

although it is possible for 10 people to team up and hijack the site. but they don't have ultimate control over the site though. they can simply delete posts, approve fan-fic, etc. any real moderator will still have the final say.

or is my idea still flawed.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

having the power to delete posts and decide the fate of fanfics is still too much power in my eyes. maybe all they can do is lock down one from anymore comments, but not delete it altogether.

[DFIK]

Pipe down, proto. The admins are doing everybody a favor by keeping the site running. Instead of criticizing them for problems, why don't you look at the bright side for a change. You and your group of 'vets' are the sole cause of trouble at the SC.org. The lot of you act like you're superior to the rest, but that's where you're mistaken. You're the scum of the site; you're a bunch of weaklings. You know why? Because you need an excuse like having been there longer to make yourself special. You can't make a name for yourself with your work and honesty. No, that would be too noble. Take a hike.
Umm, sorry buddy. I think not. As a "vet" at that site, I'l ltell you right now, none of us decided that just because we've been there longer we're special. Hell, Half of us are olny considered vets because we've amde some popular fanfiction. Likeme for example. Think before you speak.

As for the mods, well they're certainly needed, but finding someone who is unbiased isn't gonna be easy. I think everyone at SC.org has taken sides, including the admins. The rules just aren't strict enough to keep troublemakers in line. Overall, proper retribution is lacking. There just isn't a friendly atmosphere at the site. Instead being patted on the back and being told to try a bit harder next time, people are flamed. The problem is caused by the group of vets who act like they own the place. They're like a bunch of babies demanding milk from their mothers' breasts.
Once again, your jsut dissing a large group of people who we have decided to call "vets" due to a lack of a better term. Not all of us are out there flaming. Do you visit sc.org often? are you there reading our debates? Are you there fighting to keep the peace? People who do not visit sc.org and have talked about this there, have no right telling us what we sohuld and shouldn't do. Before this whole thing that you can see, hundreds of posts were deleted due to the staffs poor judgement (that they found out later, and fixed the problem) that nothing was needed to be done. Flamers were everywhere, threateneing to actually hack into my computer... (I was the first guy who was flamed). So once again, think before you speak.

I'll stop there. It's truly disgusting what the 'vets' have done to the site. Anyhow, good luck with finding a mod.
Thanks for the luck, but again your judging everyone who is called a "vet" to be a disgusting asshole. Its almost liek being racist less extreme.

-DFIK

[Mystikal]

We're biased. We're supposed to be. It's our site not theirs. From the very start of the ORG Network we ran the site the way we wanted, not the way others wanted, and because we wanted to, not because someone else wanted to.

I could care less about being biased, as long as they're not discriminating against a single user or group.

Also, I don't think Vets are causing problems or that they think they're better.. I think it's just a small group of users who can sometimes be ... annoying, or something. I don't know why they go and flame people, it seems to be random.

[X-Master2]

My opinion is pointless and useless, what do I care anyway?
Another waste of space brought to you by me, nonetheless.

[ZeroDarkStar]

what about ip checks then? they can't possibly create 10 different ip addresses.

Some hackers/flamers/internet sociopaths purposely get ISP which give them Dynamic IPs, meaning every time their computer or modem starts up, they have a different IP, making them notoriously difficult to eliminate. Although an entire IP range may be blocked, it might create more problems than it solves. Some users with an IP close to the flamer's may be unfairly banned.

However, determined flamers may simply move to a new ISP or simply request a new IP range from their current service.

[DragonPaladin]

I don't really know if I'm a vet. I've been here for a sort of long time. I've written several stories. They're popular but haven't made popular list. Sigh..I'll just brood on my failures.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

Umm, sorry buddy. I think not. As a "vet" at that site, I'l ltell you right now, none of us decided that just because we've been there longer we're special. Hell, Half of us are olny considered vets because we've amde some popular fanfiction. Likeme for example. Think before you speak. Notice the "us" and the "we". What determines if you're a vet is people in your own little group; there is no guideline in which you follow. If having popular fanfiction makes you a vet, then deadfast would be one too, which he clearly isn't.

Once again, your jsut dissing a large group of people who we have decided to call "vets" due to a lack of a better term. Not all of us are out there flaming. Do you visit sc.org often? are you there reading our debates? Are you there fighting to keep the peace? People who do not visit sc.org and have talked about this there, have no right telling us what we sohuld and shouldn't do. Before this whole thing that you can see, hundreds of posts were deleted due to the staffs poor judgement (that they found out later, and fixed the problem) that nothing was needed to be done. Flamers were everywhere, threateneing to actually hack into my computer... (I was the first guy who was flamed). So once again, think before you speak. Vets, pests, whatever you call yourself, you still do what you do. People at warboards needn't participate in your flame wars to be able to judge you by your stance on your issues. The hundreds of posts were deleted for good reason: to keep flame wars at bay. Otherwise there'd be a "war" at every major comment section. That is hardly poor judgement. Flamers are everywhere, yes, and have you ever seen a mirror? You take little comments too seriously, why let a wannabe hacker get on your nerves?

Thanks for the luck, but again your judging everyone who is called a "vet" to be a disgusting asshole. Its almost liek being racist less extreme. That's not racism, not even near the foundations of the term. He was not critisizing you by what you appear to be (ie your avatar, signature, etc) but what he knew of what you have done. It might not exactly be you, but you're still defending the group that is.

Mystikal brings upon us the cold hard truth that the constitutional rights do not extend to the virtual world. The site's future belongs to the admins alone, and we can but suggest not demand.

[Geno]

If I may intervene, I've read this whole debate thus far (Up to DragonPaladin's final post), and am willing to say my two cents about what's going on. Remember: This is an unbiased opinion. I'll admit, I visit SC.org every few days, but not reading fan-fics or stories. But I feel that from my perspective, I can throw a few comments to the 'veteran' party and figure out what's really on your mind. And yes, I'm putting you all together in this party. And it's not because it's been mentioned, but because you seem to all know enough about SC.org to state these opinions. So please read on, and concider the following.

To the veteran party:

1. Why do you feel the people mentioned earlier in the thread (Every name listed) is deserving of a modship? You have to take into concideration the following: You need a lot of time to devote to this (Meaning hours upon hours each week), you might have to possibly stop a flame from a 'friend' or a writer that you really like. I know it might not happen, but the chance is there. And you can't back down. If you don't provide these qualities, it's kind of hard to become a moderator.

2. If you don't gain moderators from this, do you have other suggestions? I saw the possibility earlier from a few people about 'Crowd Decisions (Where many people have a say that aren't moderators or higher)' that might work. Would this work or not? What flaws are in it? And yes, I've read the flaws that you've stated thus far. Work this out. If that doesn't work, do you have any other suggestions? Remember: Although the admins of the site may not like the choices, odds are they are open to suggestions. Posting an idea may just make them say "Hmmm... Let's see if this'll work" or even think up an alternative route.

3. List names. Although it could be hard for you to do, fearing for your accounts, etc. you should name names of who you think is doing and not doing their job. Although I feel Proto was out of place (A little bit) on cursing at an admin, there is nothing wrong with saying "I feel that you're not doing your job because of *Insert comment here.*" If you do this, it'll show why. If they have a reason, like the water pipe breaking on Schwitzer, then that's legitimate. If not, then they are in between a rock and a hard place. Provide reasons behind all of this. And yes, inactivity can show up a lot, expecially seeing as how some of them are in school/college still. This takes it's toll on a lot of people. Just list reasons and name names. Don't flame though. Backing up things with a response is a good thing to show, and it's one of many good moderator qualities (If you guys are still looking to be some).

4. What are current major problems, and how long have they been major problems? All websites have some sort of problem (Unless they are either A. really well moderated sites, B. Relatively new, C. an 'invite only' kind of thing, etc.) so show which problems the site currently has. Flaming is obviously high on the list, but how long has it been a problem? And how long has it gone checked or unchecked? If the moderation was fine up until two months ago, three months ago, a year ago, etc., provide a reason to why it went this way. Was it an influx of new people? Was it one certain person that led the movement? Was it less moderation? Was it too much moderation (Yes, this can cause it), etc.? Provide possible reasons to why this went on, and show it. This will allow quicker judgements to be made. If you have no idea what the problem is, it's harder to fix, correct? Finding it and dealing with it swiftly will help in this situation.

Concider all the previous questions, and think them over.

May I remind you, I don't visit SC.org often, but I do know about how some of the issues you speak of go along. Some forums impliment more moderators, some allow the 'Voiced Opinion' thing. There are still others that do other choices. Taking the time to go over these questions could and should help you a bit.

~Larry "Geno" Meyers
- BI's RP forum Aide

P.S To all the people that are in this thread, and recently came to Warboards: Welcome to Warboards! We hope to see you in other areas of the forum, and hope you enjoy your stay!

Oh, and if you feel that I'm out of line, feel free to say so. I will somewhat agree, but somewhat not. If this hadn't turned out to be a full fledged flame-debate (I felt it was at a few points), then I wouldn't have intervened, but after seeing how many phrases, ideas, etc. were thrown around, I felt I'd put my two cents out here, and see if I can't help both parties.

[BSTRhino]

SciFiFreak90, try resending your validation email if you can't post: http://www.warboards.org/register.php?do=requestemail

Look, I know what you're talking about DeltaSquad, I've read everyone's comments in Save the World and I use a global comments panel every day to look for flaming anywhere on the site, and so I do see all the flaming that happens site, even if I don't act upon it in every situation. The thing is, I have thought about this many times, I probably should've told you guys over on StarCraft.org already. I think there are two main reasons behind all the flaming at StarCraft.org:

1. Newbies not knowing the rules. For example, if someone who's never been to an interactive site like StarCraft.org comes along and reads a strategy they thought sucked, they just go along and post "this strategoie sux" because they don't know any better. I have noticed that some people in the community have responded nicely with messages such as "Hi <name>, thank you for responding, but we only post constructive criticism around here. When you post your opinion, please try to post why you think what you do."

I like those responses that politely tell people what to do, and I know there is no need to insult any of you by saying you're not doing this, because you are telling the newbies not to post flames such as this, in one way or another. That's sort of the whole basis around the follow SciFi thingy. I also try to help here by sending private messages to the people who do this.

What we could also do to reduce the occurence of these flames could be if we had the guidelines page done. I know I said I'd do it like, two months ago, so I officially suck at clearing my to do list, and I'm sorry to all of you. Please let me do it this weekend. If I don't, send me a PM to remind me.

2. Topical discussions. These are things like, Bane should be dropped from the popular list, or theghoul's incident, or even that old discussion we had in the "Small Announcement" about flaming reactions in general. When the issues are on this scale, I would like to deal with the issues myself, as I have been doing in the past. They're just so important and affect the community on the site as a whole, so I like to make sure its me who's in control of these issues.


So, what I'm basically saying is, any specifically appointed moderator's job would only include flaming type number one. They would not be responsible for any of the large scale "battles" in case any of you were wondering about it. Do we get enough of the non-large scale flaming to justify another staff member? I think we do actually. There's just one problem.

Over the past few months, I've found I have requested AJ's (the main policy administrator here, unless you count that other guy) advice so many times about StarCraft.org, and it's due to one thing. I often think to myself, if WarBoards.org has a community that can live without the flaming, why is it so hard for StarCraft.org to do the same? And that brings me onto my next point. The most basic thing you'd need in a moderator is a person who has seen a community that works, without the rule-governing body that flames people into submission like we have on StarCraft.org. Because of that, my first choices would go to existing members of WarBoards.org.

That's not the problem though, the problem is that, I know you guys are a tight community, and so I can already forsee the way you will react to someone who you've never met before trying to lay down the law. So, we've reached deadlock. I am reluctant to hire an existing StarCraft.org member because I feel you need to see where you want to go before trying to take the site into a new direction, and I'm also reluctant to hire a WarBoards.org member because there aren't many of them that you know. And because of that, it's better that you deal with me as your staff member as you have been until now. But I will be on the lookout for someone who potentially has the community management skills to reduce the flaming on the site.



hundreds of posts were deleted due to the staffs poor judgement
Honestly, I wish everyone would stop saying that... it's not welcoming for anyone to visit a site and see nothing but flaming, and all of the flame wars were already over at the time I deleted them. They weren't mass-deleted because I just felt like it, or to stop a war, they were deleted for a good reason.


Also, about the "vets" causing havoc on the site, I think that's all been put in a bad light. If you have any small, tight community, then at some point, the community will create some set of rules or standards and a way to enforce them. It just so happens that on StarCraft.org, we really don't do enough to manage the flaming on the site, and so a bunch of people who care enough about the site have stepped up to fill that void. Because it just so happens you need to be on the site a while before you begin caring about it, most of the people who are part of this team are what we call "veterans" but everyone is welcome. They are there to do good, everyone should recognise that. It just so happens that they have no other power other than flaming people into submission when they go out of line. My agreement with them at the moment is that I need to get to the flamers, spammers and other rule encroachers first before they get to them if we don't want flaming. I know that sounds really bad, so soon we'll get a report post button installed and I'll teach them to use that instead of the flaming into submission we have now. And like I said before, I'll be looking for someone suitable for a moderator, so that should help.



I'd also like to say that Protogod has been very good at making well-justified posts on StarCraft.org and he wouldn't flame unless he's feels he has a strong reason to do so. I would appreciate it if everyone stopped flaming him, and gave him a second chance. Like DeltaSquad said, I hope we can just get something working here, and to do that, it'd be much easier if we could focus more on solutions, and not on flaming each other.


I'm also glad you guys are coming over here to discuss this. Save the world isn't exactly the right place for discussions like this. Also DeltaSquad, SPARTAN_117 is now LumosaBrood if I remember right.

[DragonPaladin]

It is inded hyuman nature to form groups independent of the rest of society and make themselves look good.

[Hawthorne]

Ok now people everyone although I am not a old or rather new user and I am one of the more active eople here I would like to comment on all of this:

Everyone of the admins & mods have been really busy these last few weeks - BST is working on a new triggering system that will reovlutionize our mapping world, Schwitzer had a few internet problems I don't know what AJ's doing but I suspect he has not enough free time also, no idea about the other 2 admins :P

Making a moderator would be practically useless and rather onfusing for most people.
If you ask me there should be admins and 2-3 hired people that do certain jobs:

1 user watches for missed out news which haven't been posted.
1 user takes control of the Fan Fiction list and manages all of the redirecting
The last user which has the most flexability will watch over the maps & strategies bases.

The news guy might not be needed but watching over fan fiction,maps & strategies bases is too much of a work for 1 even 2 people.

I know that the administrators have their hands full and such a decision to get a new member into their staff is not an easy task but I would like to point out that at the moiment such a new staff member would be a valuable acquisition and would make a better realisation of the site.

That's all that I had to say I'm not candidationg for any of these positions because I simply lack some of the needed skills though I do not lack in enthusiasem and free time.

Hotorn

[Basan]

what &quot;concept&quot; are you talking about. look, we need more mods. its that simple. if we are going to have new mods we want them to be people we trust, as in other members. Explained by the current mods of these parts (similar to my points)... Now I hope that you tone down your attitude a lil' bit.
And welcome to WB's, to you all.

look, NZRox, no one was insulting for a few posts, and i tried to end it when i said to talk about it seriously, people like you are just as much to blame as me. You cant let it go. why do you insult vets? we are experienced, why should we be punished for that. the amount of trouble that we make is directly porportional to hoiw much more we post than noobs. Umm, sorry buddy. I think not. As a &quot;vet&quot; at that site, I'l ltell you right now, none of us decided that just because we've been there longer we're special. Hell, Half of us are olny considered vets because we've amde some popular fanfiction. Likeme for example. Think before you speak.

Once again, your jsut dissing a large group of people who we have decided to call &quot;vets&quot; due to a lack of a better term. Not all of us are out there flaming. Do you visit sc.org often? are you there reading our debates? Are you there fighting to keep the peace? People who do not visit sc.org and have talked about this there, have no right telling us what we sohuld and shouldn't do. Before this whole thing that you can see, hundreds of posts were deleted due to the staffs poor judgement (that they found out later, and fixed the problem) that nothing was needed to be done. Flamers were everywhere, threateneing to actually hack into my computer... (I was the first guy who was flamed). So once again, think before you speak.

Thanks for the luck, but again your judging everyone who is called a &quot;vet&quot; to be a disgusting asshole. Its almost liek being racist less extreme. It's not the the flame tone that gets to us, it's really the self intituling as "vets" and the demand posture that got to my mood. I post around here for a while now and never once you'd see me calling myself any similar mambo jambo. Same appliable to many other folks around.
As Geno, I go to SC.org once or twice a forthnight and never go to deep in the sections you're all 'cussing about. And I grant that the Strat section was getting to much crappy for my taste n' one of the main reasons why stopped postin' there (as already spoken here on certain ocasions by Prozerran or even by Schwitz' himself). If you pop up more often 'round here, you'd seen that too and even may have contributed to helpful solutions to that rising problem. ;)
The positive attitude / helping posture is what gets things done and eventually will aid any of you to become a possible staff personel in sites, such as this or even downunder at SC.org (n' that's what I've been stating all along). :)

Now let's get in 'constructive mode' n' try to find any feasible solutions into the problem currently in 'our' hands (flaming at SC.org, for instance), stoppin' with the pointing fingers that aroused unnecessarily please. Join heads with us (from WB's) and try to debate it healthfully into new fields of compromising to improve the site. :tup:

[DeltaForce]

AHHHHHHHH! how come i didn't catch it earlier!! stupid me... grrrrrr. ne ways, nvm that.

agreed. fres, page, fresh start. imo, flaming, no matter the reason is the wrong way to tackel any situation. what will it gain u? do u seriously think that just because u say "i will eat u for breakfast" and whatnot will subdue them? no, they just go onto another thread/story (w/e) and start another flame war. no, most flamers were stoped by the admins, but sometimes, the wars were already too far in, and grudges were held.

like BST said, if u put someone from warboards on that isn't a regular at SC.org, then well, u'll get a lot of ppl either A) leaving, or B) flaming to get a new mod. a mod should be able to make a run down of the fiction/maps. i am proposing there be 2 mods, but 3 mods if needed. there is just too much to do for 1.

if we can't have mods, the majority rules thing will work most. there are little clichès now in SC.org, and they will band together if A)they don't like the author, or B) doesn't live up to their "standards".

there will be problems with both, i assure u. it is human nature to find err in others, but not themselves.

following Geno's "outline", i guess i'll name some possible candidates, though i really don't know if they'll work.

1)protogod (yes, a bit hot headed, but knows whats good, and what's not)
2)unholyassasian (not really a regular, and kinda biased aginst vets, but a good choice nether the less)
3)DFIK (one of the regulars, calm, not really biased, unless wars start appering, which if he is appointed, i hope he will join no sides)

that's probably my list for now. i would pick myself, but that seems.... i donno, bad, lol. if others post me, i would be more then glad to accept.

i've spent lots of time on the site before and after re-vamp, and i look foreward to a more peaceful enviroment

[Neo]

The problem with appointing a mod from the existing list of either veteran members, or popular sc.org members is that invariably you start with a "omg im a mod" and feel the need to do anything and everything -- whether it be deleting, clearing, or moderating to the extreme. That or you would see favoritism.

If someone was hired from WB whos already a moderator here (ie: Exedore, though hes got other things going -- just an example -- you'd be tapping someone who has been moderating, is already part of the ORG network, and is unbiased since they dont come from the bowels of fiction/strategy comment areas).

But oh well.

Perhaps what is needed is not more moderators... but more screeners, that is, more people to screen maps, fiction, and strategies. So that BST can deal with on site members and what he usually does, but dumps more of the tedious work on others. Meh, who knows.

To bad yall dont have a newgrounds like system at SC.Org that would allow you to trash a fiction/strat if it was down right bad.

-Neo

[DeltaForce]

heeey, i like the screener idea. heck i had that before, but didn't know how it would work, so it kinda slipped my mind. thankx. ya, i think screeners would be good.

[Geno]

The problem with the NG screening was shown just the other day, however. If you look at this (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/225224) movie, you'll realize how bad it is. How did it get passed? Who knows. All I know is that this'll also create a sense of more "Hah, my stuff is higher than yours" kind of thing. Sure, it shows rankings of the fan-fics and whatnot, but after a while, what happens if one person starts getting all the highest movies? What'll they start to do if they're not civilized? That's right, they'll either flame people below them, about how good they are, or they'll start to show off. Either way, it's bad.

That's just two more of my cents... Looks like I'm going to chuck a bit more in... Eh... Oh well... *Chucks a dollar in* That'll cover me for the rest of this thread... Or 50 posts, whichever comes first ;)

~Larry "Geno" Meyers
- BI's RP forum Aide

[DFIK]

Notice the "us" and the "we". What determines if you're a vet is people in your own little group; there is no guideline in which you follow. If having popular fanfiction makes you a vet, then deadfast would be one too, which he clearly isn't. Um, actually he is. That doesn't mean Scifi has to like him. a "vet" at sc.org is just someone who has made a name for him or herself.

Vets, pests, whatever you call yourself, you still do what you do. People at warboards needn't participate in your flame wars to be able to judge you by your stance on your issues. The hundreds of posts were deleted for good reason: to keep flame wars at bay. Otherwise there'd be a "war" at every major comment section. That is hardly poor judgement. Ha. Let me jsut take in what you have said... You think that the war wasn't necessary? The original one, not the bullshit new one. That Raptor, Baptor, Kaos and all those jerks didn't need to be pestered and banned? wtf are you smoking man? These people (aside from Raptor) were flamed for flaming us first -- we fought back. Do you expect us to take this? We're suppsoed to be flamed and cry to our admins about it without having our own say? And some old enemies have been renewed, like raptor. All has been forgiven. He was accepted as a member at our site, because he stopped flaming and apologized. BSTRhino and the rest of the staff realised deleting the comments was only making things worse, so they stopped. The poor judgement here is with you... but I really don't feel like starting anything to big here, so i'm going to drop this.

Flamers are everywhere, yes, and have you ever seen a mirror? You take little comments too seriously, why let a wannabe hacker get on your nerves? I believe you have jsut called me a flamer. I resent this to the full extent. I was the first person on the site to be flamed by Raptor who has now been forgiven. Not only did he threaten to hack my computer, but his nonsense and his constant random yelling at people was uncalled for. Something had tob e done, and the admins weren't doing anything. i took it upon myself to ask some people to try and help me get rid of him, and then this whole thing started. I really wish you wouldn't insult me, by calling me a flamer.... I believe trying to keep the peace is not much of flaming... when the new "war" started, I was trying to stop it. I'm ranting again, I'll drop it.

That's not racism, not even near the foundations of the term. He was not critisizing you by what you appear to be (ie your avatar, signature, etc) but what he knew of what you have done. It might not exactly be you, but you're still defending the group that is.

Mystikal brings upon us the cold hard truth that the constitutional rights do not extend to the virtual world. The site's future belongs to the admins alone, and we can but suggest not demand.I know its not racism, I said that for lack of a better term on my part. Sorry about that. And I'm not defending the group that is... who exactly are the people that you guys here are trying to claim are flaming? Scifi? Yes. I'm not going to try and say he didn't flame Bane, he did. Ihatezerg as well. Two people out of like 12 vets, isn't exactly a complete list of horrible people or anything. And besides all flaming has now ended, aside from amybe people complaining about dreadful fanfiction...

EDIT: Alright, i noticed that this comment is a little harsh... I'm sorry. I do not intend for any more of this bullshit. We need to peacefully work this out. I was just trying a little bit to defend myself and what I had said.

-DFIK

[UnHoly-Assassin]

I think being able to report a offensive or just downright embarrassing pieces of work is a great way to reduce the stressload on the mods. And a way to prevent abuse of that ability is that you can only report about 5 posts/submissions per day. Or the said alternative, the ng.com-like rating system, would also be good and we can have a little top 50 list. A little competition can't be too bad, can it? Well I realized that the problems can be solved in different methods rather than simply getting a human mod.

ADD: I've just read DFIK's comments. We don't need to throw stuff back and forth to each other anymore, so I'm not gonna say anything. Our common goal is to suggest a useful establishment for the good of the website, nothing personal.

[Basan]

...
Ha. Let me jsut take in what you have said... You think that the war wasn't necessary? The original one, not the bullshit new one. That Raptor, Baptor, Kaos and all those jerks didn't need to be pestered and banned? wtf are you smoking man? These people (aside from Raptor) were flamed for flaming us first -- we fought back. Do you expect us to take this? We're suppsoed to be flamed and cry to our admins about it without having our own say? And some old enemies have been renewed, like raptor. All has been forgiven. He was accepted as a member at our site, because he stopped flaming and apologized. BSTRhino and the rest of the staff realised deleting the comments was only making things worse, so they stopped. The poor judgement here is with you... but I really don't feel like starting anything to big here, so i'm going to drop this.
...

And yet you still find the urge to stir animosities around. Get it out of your system by any other way.
If that rehappens... next time, how about handing out a more mature posture and ignore the fella or blatantly say you're about to do so. Next step, if he doesn't stop, report it to the site's staff (by E-mail, PM over here, whatever). Here, we've got an report button for such occurrences and it's never been that used, to the best of my knowledge. :poke:

[DragonPaladin]

I want to be a mod...everyone overlooks me...But not after I crash Starcraft.org

[Neo]

I want to be a mod...everyone overlooks me...But not after I crash Starcraft.org
All that would accomplish is getting you banned from sc.org, not to mention the other org sites.

-Neo

[Mystikal]

Good luck in crashing Starcraft.org. If you manage to pull that one off I'll give you a cookie.

Just so you realize, if you do crash the database server, the site won't even be affected. You know, I wouldn't want you to waste your time.

[0laf]

i'm sure i can crash it if i had the reason to. i could even crash warboards.

[DFIK]

And yet you still find the urge to stir animosities around. Get it out of your system by any other way.
If that rehappens... next time, how about handing out a more mature posture and ignore the fella or blatantly say you're about to do so. Next step, if he doesn't stop, report it to the site's staff (by E-mail, PM over here, whatever). Here, we've got an report button for such occurrences and it's never been that used, to the best of my knowledge. :poke:Um, didn't I say the staff wasn't doing anything about it? They got into it later, but that was after we caught their attention. At the time of this taking place, I did not know how to use feedback, nor did I know what it even meant. I thought it was for a seperate use altogether. And, I did not have an account at warboards, and I never would have, had I not been slightly part of this whole thing. I don't much care for warboards honestly... I stick to czaries.net.

Anyhoo, this is besides the point. Lets not try to argue about anything here, and lets see if we can't find something to do peacefully.

-DFIK

[DeltaForce]

uhh, ya dragon. crash SC.org? oh, that'll really get u to be mod. ne ways, we need more admin input if we are to get anywhere. i'll try to pm them and their stance on this situation

[DragonPaladin]

I was just kidding. Maybe I should try to make popular list first...

[SciFifreak90]

YES!!! finally i got this thing to work.
now to get to work. you people insulted protogod and all vets, and thats all bullshit. how the hell can you justify calling us flamers, the very thing that we fight on starcraft.org.
you dont think we should have fought those retards who flamed the site? what the hell else did you expectus to do? sit on our hands and wait for it to all blow over? like hell. perhaps you havent heard of me and my somewhat infamous methods. i fight, whenever it is necessary and against whatever threat. i saw one, and i fought it in the only way i could. I'll go to great lengths to gain victory, not short of flaming if need be. ive fought in every flame war since ive joined starcraft.org, and won them all. If i see a problem, i dont go telling people and letting them deal with it. i fight it, face it openly, and send them to hell. it has worked, and as long as it keeps working, im going to keep fighting whatever threatens the site, my friends, or myself. and a few of you are getting pretty damn close to crossing that line.

may the force be with you

[Protogod]

ahh, this controlled chaos, this animosity that drives us to better ourselves, this is incredible, no matter how bad it seems. now then, i would personally like to reiterate: deadfast IS a vet. anyway, dragon the reason you are overlooked isnt because youre unqualified, even though we like you, you just havent made a name for yourself yet, or at least one that gives you an edge. before anyone tries to bash scifi, id first like to say he came to state his mind, he gets aggravated but its worth it because he does care about whats best in the end. id personally like to thank bstrhino, although other mods help he is the one i trust the most. he relates to us, like mods should. on a lighter note: happy saint patricks day! seriously, the very fact that we all came to argue over this seemingly trivial matter shows that no matter how much of an ass any of us looks like, we are fighting for something we believe in. vets are people who have experience. we dont claim to be gods. its that simple. we arent parents, nannies, preidents, kings, etc. we are just trying to help.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

I just love seeing people (mainly protogod36) who try to throw their weight around in a community unfamiliar to them thinking that they should demand the same kind of respect that the supposedly get at other communities. Well, I hate to break it to you, but you are certainly not playing in the same league here at Warboards like you are at Starcraft.org. In fact, if you really want to ruffle some feathers of the true "veterans" of Starcraft.org, then be my guest. I just hope for your sake that you can handle the Demon to whom you are awakening. I'm sorry I just had to quote that in response to SciFi's comment :D

Anywhoo, yes yes you fight for your beliefs and for the love of your friends and I respect that. It's just that you're putting down others in the process, and while some of them are flamers others may just be posting constructive critisism. Besides, we're beyond the point where this type of discussion is on par with this thread's purpose. Let's talk about how to better the site.

Oh, and please don't remind me of saint patricks day. I'm still suffering from my bruises because I forgot to wear green :mad:

[Protogod]

I'm sorry I just had to quote that in response to SciFi's comment :D
Oh, and please don't remind me of saint patricks day. I'm still suffering from my bruises because I forgot to wear green :mad:
haha, the last bit is entertaining, but seriously, for the last time we arent throwing our weight around. look, this thread wasnt taken seriously, and hardly was a point of attention until i retaliated. look how many people have at least read this. now they will think and make up their own opinions. all in all, at least people now are aware of the situation.

[SciFifreak90]

and i take it that i am the demon he is referring to. such is my reputation. but he is correct, attack veterans of starcraft.org, and youre asking for my retribution. people on starcraft.org know that, that insulting my friends is a very bad mistake. it just so happens that some people here have dont that, and i dont intend to let it go unnoticed. bring them into the light, fight them for all they insult to see, and let the persecuted see their broken form and rejoice. i am a defender and a fighter. i fight, and i fight for those who cannot or will not do it for themselves. i cannot sit back at such slander, i will fight it, and will not stop until justice, the greatest good, has been done.

[Black.Ice]

and i take it (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:var%20empty2%20=%20window.open%28%27http://66.216.114.15/SearchRedirect.aspx?SearchID=4929&UserID=231ECF23-6ACD-4750-A3BE-432D7490CD89&DistID=0102050218%27,%20%27_blank%27%29;) that i am the demon he is referring to. such is my reputation. but he is correct, attack veterans of starcraft.org, and youre asking for my retribution. people (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:var%20empty2%20=%20window.open%28%27http://66.216.114.15/SearchRedirect.aspx?SearchID=3478&UserID=231ECF23-6ACD-4750-A3BE-432D7490CD89&DistID=0102050218%27,%20%27_blank%27%29;) on starcraft.org know that, that insulting my friends is a very bad mistake. it (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:var%20empty2%20=%20window.open%28%27http://66.216.114.15/SearchRedirect.aspx?SearchID=4929&UserID=231ECF23-6ACD-4750-A3BE-432D7490CD89&DistID=0102050218%27,%20%27_blank%27%29;) just so happens that some people (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:var%20empty2%20=%20window.open%28%27http://66.216.114.15/SearchRedirect.aspx?SearchID=3478&UserID=231ECF23-6ACD-4750-A3BE-432D7490CD89&DistID=0102050218%27,%20%27_blank%27%29;) here have dont that, and i dont intend to let it (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:var%20empty2%20=%20window.open%28%27http://66.216.114.15/SearchRedirect.aspx?SearchID=4929&UserID=231ECF23-6ACD-4750-A3BE-432D7490CD89&DistID=0102050218%27,%20%27_blank%27%29;) go unnoticed. bring them into the light, fight them for all they insult to see, and let the persecuted see their broken form and rejoice. i am a defender and a fighter. i fight, and i fight for those who cannot or will not do it for themselves. i cannot sit back at such slander, i will fight it, and will not stop until justice, the greatest good, has been done.
First of all, she not he.

I'm not a veteran at SC.org, nor do I visit very often. And sadly, you have all left me with a very bad first impression.

Remember, we are not against one another. We are working for a common goal. I ask politely that we all cool down, and work together to achieve what we need.

Thank you.

[DragonPaladin]

Unholy assasin. I have a complete solution for you. Wear a sign on your back that says. "Do not touch." When some gets close to pinch you, turn around and look crazy. Then say in a crazy sing-song voice, "If you touch me, I will kill you. Slowly."

When people tried pinching me today, I threw playing cards in their faces. That can hurt.
And protogod, I will be noticed!!! I just wish there was a list of what to do...

Unholy assasin. I have a complete solution for you. Wear a sign on your back that says. "Do not touch." When some gets close to pinch you, turn around and look crazy. Then say in a crazy sing-song voice, "If you touch me, I will kill you. Slowly."



When people tried pinching me today, I threw playing cards in their faces. That can hurt.

And protogod, I will be noticed!!! I just wish there was a list of what to do...

Oops. Double post. Scifireak has come to Warboards.org! Doom to you! Doom to you! Doom to yoU!

[BSTRhino]

Actually SciFiFreak, Demon Child, who is a female by the way, is referring to the herself as the Demon in that paragraph.

SciFiFreak, if the only reason you have a WarBoards.org account is to flame the regular members, then what good is it having you here? This place is a private forum, you are our invited guests, and all we ask is that when you are here, you respect our rules: http://www.warboards.org/announcement.php?f=4&announcementid=1

I'd just like to point out an observation I've been making. People have insulted the cult you guys have on StarCraft.org time and time again. I was hoping you would've realised after all these shows of repeated history that perhaps it's not the rest of the world that is causing this.

[DragonPaladin]

We are family!!!

protogod, will you please stop making your messages explode in my face? I'm tire of wiping the soot off my computer.

[NZRox]

Points taken. Still, though, the vets act like they own the place, and that doesn't get anybody anywhere. You people just need to understand that its the admins' site, and you either do what they tell you to, or you suffer the consequences. Where's the respect? You have no respect! Seriously, people, grow up. Learn to play by the rules or get the hell out.

And, yes, I've been at the site, DFIK. Just because I don't waste my time posting replies to illegitimate arguments doesn't mean that I don't know what's going on.

In my opinion, DFIK would make the best mod, if we're picking out an SC.org user. He's one of the best writers on the site (and you have to admit, the fanfic is the heart and soul of SC.org), keeps cool, and as is apparent by his stance here, I think he could take things into his own hands quite well if necessary.

Once again, though, I stress that the vets are full of themselves. Until they can overcome that, there'll be no improvement at the site.

[DragonPaladin]

Everyone loves DFIK. But who is he? I was wondering. Does anyone live in Phoenix?

[Protogod]

bstrhino, im going to level with you, as i do respect you. look, our ways seem violent from the outside, but just look at how successful it is. small disputes such as bane ( i say that because no matter how bad it looked, it was more of a cold war than rabid posting and such) only bring us closer. it may seem strange, but all it takes is an apology or a reasonable explanation and people are forgiven. people still have their views about bane, but its over now and its become history. a lot of us are excessive, but all in all there arent major things going on right now. i am basically the epitamy of what I am trying to say: i get agitated and fight over something i believe in, but when its over i dont care anymore, we know whos right and it isnt a big thing anymore. by the way it isnt really a cult. what you are referring to is either the fact that noobs follow scifi for no reason, thinking hes the leader, or that we vets have very much influence. thats only because we are on the most, people (noobs) look up to us wether we want them to or not, and we all understand each other (for the most part) weve gotten the gist of things there. there is infighting between vets, but thats superficial. we dont have a leader, but we do have immense loyalty to each other. the reason he is here is to help me in this argument, but this isnt the only place hes posted, and it isnt all negative.

i just read the posts between bstrhino and this one.
a) no, if you dont like exploding messages too bad!
b) no, we dont own the place and we realize that. however as far as members go, the mods dont interact much in that department, they are simply too busy. we do post some negative things, but so do members at this site. and by the way, since were catching so much flak for this id like to point out that we usually dont post short "u suck, stop writing" posts. it is a rule among vets that we all agree about: constructive criticism only.

[DragonPaladin]

Wow! This is fun. I can surely use this stuff in my psychology thesis.

[Protogod]

Wow! This is fun. I can surely use this stuff in my psychology thesis.
trust me, my last three psychologists gave up, and needed psychologists themselves! then their psychologists had the same problem, etc.

[BSTRhino]

Yes, I have seen it working, and I'll say that I would never have expected anyone to convert Raptor. I'm just not satisfied with it, why is it that Edgewize, Mystikal, Schwitzer and me have to put in our time, money and energy into a site where close people flame each other. On this site we have a whole array of people who are close and they don't flame each other. What's different about StarCraft.org?

[Protogod]

Yes, I have seen it working, and I'll say that I would never have expected anyone to convert Raptor. I'm just not satisfied with it, why is it that Edgewize, Mystikal and me have to put in our time, money and energy into a site where close people flame each other. On this site we have a whole array of people who are close and they don't flame each other. What's different about StarCraft.org? completely different setting. the events change the way people think. its quite simple actually: you see the site shut down. people returned ready to let their emotions loose, be it good bad or ugly. by chance it ended up as a war. one conflict caused another. it was war that made us so close. subconsciously that is set in. i was not so involved in the wars, so as you can see it is uncommon for me to erupt. i have a few times, but not as common as some other vets. we all have learned to state our minds no matter what. constuctive criticism is the only thing holding us back. it causes problems, yes, but it works. it is all in good fun. in the end, i know we will all stay close.

[DFIK]

Everyone loves DFIK. But who is he? I was wondering. Does anyone live in Phoenix?Yeah, whats up with that? not that I'm complaining, it's always good to be liked.

In my opinion, DFIK would make the best mod, if we're picking out an SC.org user. He's one of the best writers on the site (and you have to admit, the fanfic is the heart and soul of SC.org), keeps cool, and as is apparent by his stance here, I think he could take things into his own hands quite well if necessary.Thanks. And I am sorry if I ever did offend you in anything I said... It was jsut I fealt a need to try and defend what little community sc.org had, and being one of the most respected members, I figured my input may help...

Anyway, lets try to finish this peacefully, I don't want any sc.org members v. Warboards thing going on...

[BSTRhino]

Okay, I see. Yeah I did wonder because there were a lot of the same people from before and after the revamp, yet the result was quite different. Maybe if theghoul had never stopped by? I remember once I actually read all the recorded comments on StarCraft.org since the beginning of the revamp, and one thing I noted was that before the days of theghoul, there was nothing to indicate that SciFi would turn into the super-vet he is now.

I was kinda sad to see theghoul leave, if SciFi hadn't attacked him about his signature (that just said "-theghoul" for those of you who are curious) he would still be around. I've never worked out what's so offensive about a guy with a signature that says "-theghoul"

Anyway, you know what my angle on the whole issue of flaming is. I'll get that rules page up, and I'll keep an eye out for possible moderators, and I hope we can take it from there and slowly make the site as good as it once was.

[Protogod]

ya, i hope so too. i can try to explain the war. in the old days we thought sigs were only for accomplished members. theghoul wasnt a major problem in itself, but it established a precident for future reference. i dont know how necessary it was, but i missed that particular war. theghoul has returned anyway, hasnt he? everyone is paranoid about him, yes, but at least he is back. its a step in the right direction, thats all you can ask.

[BSTRhino]

I understand now. Well, I might have to write something about signatures into the rules page... I'll have something on constructive criticism too. I'll also have to include a clear definition of flaming and its punishments. This sounds like quite a task. Once I've finished with it, we can talk about it and I'll see what you guys think.

I haven't noticed theghoul actually. I'll check his posts later and send him a welcome back message maybe.

[DeltaForce]

imo, the fight for the "sigs" was the n00best thing that ever happend on SC.org. the attack on raptor, babtor, and chaos was justified (though i still believe the methods were unothadox), but the sigs was downrite silly. ne ways, i remember Spartan_117john used 117... out more the -117, or -117 john.... acutally, i've never seen him use it before on the onld site.

plus like BST said, how did scifi get the way he is now? he was so humble before. power corrupts absolutely if u ask me. no, i'm not asking for a fight, but i'm just stating what i'm seeing, and have seen. i've probably been on the site longest out of eveyone here, cept maybe BST, and i can tell u, there was nothing of this magnatude going on the old site.

DFIK would be a good chocie NZR, but there are also lots of other good candadates, but i think it's A) up to the admins more, and B) the population. i still think a poll on SC.org with candadates the ADMINS think are worthy to be be there, and post it. therefore, both sides are apleased rite?

hmm, seems like all my post are overlooked so far...

[Mystikal]

I'm not all that tight knit with the community simply because of lack of time, but I do know that we need some moderators for the comments, as well as a few people approving submissions and reading through things to scan them before allowing them to be posted on the site.

Also -- I think the site is much better now but we just have a discussion control problem. I think that's arose simlpy because there's a lot more areas to post comments on than before, honestly.

[Hawthorne]

Great perspect Mystical, I totally agree about the submission & comment moderators:

Most Fan Fictions submissions are beneath comment having extensive errors and some of the comment are kind of insulting.

I still regret that you didn't take into care one of my ideas which I will reintroduce:

If we get a mod for submissions you hsould add a new effect:
When submitting after step 3 (this is for fan fictions) there should be a step 4 where there should be this:

Would you like your story to be checked for grammar errors and after that submitted.
(With a Yes/No system after the question)

If they click yes the story will be directly sent to the moderator's panel or if one hasn't been yet constructed to his e-mail.

The same thing might be done with the maps & strategies, but there it will be about trigger-outlines and that feature will take up more time which we will notify the users:
The thurough search for errors in your map might take an extra day or two and if the map has too much of an extension of problems the moderator will return the current map to your stated e-mail for you to fix.

So for this feature we should make e-mails absolutely needed ;)

Hoped you liked the idea although it's nothing much it would be a great advance.

(PS: As a submissions editor for the Fan Fictions I would point out DeltaForce or known as DltaSquad on sc.org and ofcourse DFIK.)

Hotorn

[NZRox]

Yeah, DFIK, don't worry about it. No disagreements will ever change my general opinion of somebody. That said, it looks like things are wrapping up. I, myself, suppose I owe you guys an apology. I was pissed off (apprently), and I guess proto's right — after the site was revamped, things just changed, including my attitude. So, sorry, and let's get SC.org back on the right track.

[BSTRhino]

Yeah, I agree, it was justified to deal with Raptor, Baptor and Kaos, even though I don't agree with the methods used. When you're faced with spammers like Baptor or Kaos who just go to the site to do nothing other than post annoying messages, there's no point you guys wasting time on them. Just ignore them and send something in the feedback panel, I'll make them disappear in two clicks.

[Basan]

Yeah, I agree, it was justified to deal with Raptor, Baptor and Kaos, even though I don't agree with the methods used. When you're faced with spammers like Baptor or Kaos who just go to the site to do nothing other than post annoying messages, there's no point you guys wasting time on them. Just ignore them and send something in the feedback panel, I'll make them disappear in two clicks.

Simply n' quickly put. ;) (And as I said before, but not so shortened.)

Mistikal's PoV's are also to be seriously considered, especially the more posting comment areas bit. :)

[DragonPaladin]

On this site we have a whole array of people who are close and they don't flame each other. What's different about StarCraft.org?

Well, there was this guy named Scififreak who didn't like certain types of people, namely noobs...

Power corrupts. It's a fact. That's why I either don't want to be leader or be an immoral person. The first one's way easier so I'm aiming for the second one.

[Protogod]

shut up dragon. n/o but u just made it seem like its scifis fault for everything

[Demon_Child]

All right, let the games begin.

Anywhoo, yes yes you fight for your beliefs and for the love of your friends and I respect that. It's just that you're putting down others in the process, and while some of them are flamers others may just be posting constructive critisism. Besides, we're beyond the point where this type of discussion is on par with this thread's purpose. Let's talk about how to better the site.

I don't fight for my beliefs, I fight for what is in the best interest for the entire community. When something has to be done then you can bet that I (and my fellow members of the staff) will do everything we can to keep the community going on as smoothly as possible. Even if that means removing the troublesome factors within. None of the staff members really want to have to resort to that, but if there is no other way to resolve the conflicts within the community, then action will have to happen. The staff actually do have discussions about how to make the site/community better as a whole and would appreciare any ideas from the forumers to give them ideas as to what they would like to see/have in the site. However, the final decision will ultimately be under the descretion of the staff to have the final say in the finished product. If it doesn't exactly look or feel the way you wanted it to, then there is nothing anyone can do about that, unfortunately.

haha, the last bit is entertaining, but seriously, for the last time we arent throwing our weight around. look, this thread wasnt taken seriously, and hardly was a point of attention until i retaliated. look how many people have at least read this. now they will think and make up their own opinions. all in all, at least people now are aware of the situation.

In case you didn't know, I have dealt with people who have a much higher ego then what you could ever possibly have. So if you think that I can be easilly cracked, then you are surely mistaken. I rerally don't see what you have to gain by basically talking down to the other members of the Warboards community whether they are either staff members or just the common forumer. It isn't like you have the right to demand anything and then become another uselessly lame flamer who will whine and cry about not getting what they want. We have had enough of people like that and I hope that you are smart enough to not be another one of those statistics.

Not throwing your weight around? You have basically told Schwitzer "fuck you" and then playing the all too common "I'll say whatever I want" card and you have the audacity to say that you haven't been throwing your weight around? Oh, give me a break! Have you even bothered to read and analyse your own posts as you do with everyone else's posts? I highly doubt that you have, which is probably why you are unable to see the "forest through the trees" so to speak.

and i take it that i am the demon he is referring to. such is my reputation. but he is correct, attack veterans of starcraft.org, and youre asking for my retribution. people on starcraft.org know that, that insulting my friends is a very bad mistake. it just so happens that some people here have dont that, and i dont intend to let it go unnoticed. bring them into the light, fight them for all they insult to see, and let the persecuted see their broken form and rejoice. i am a defender and a fighter. i fight, and i fight for those who cannot or will not do it for themselves. i cannot sit back at such slander, i will fight it, and will not stop until justice, the greatest good, has been done.

/me cracks her knuckles

As for you, I have been around Starcraft.org since May of 2001, which is probably a lot longer than you ever have so if you think that you are any more of a vet compared to me, then boy are you ever wrong. Second to Gibb, Mystikal, dunchy and Satyrkarma (though he is still around, but he isn't a part of the Org Network anymore) I have been around the community for the longest time. Even longer than BSTRhino and Schwitzer have. I remember all of the forgotten (Mutant, Ryn_Jade, and Burkain being three of them) staff members of Starcraft.org who have been around since the rebirth of Starcraft.org a couple of months before I joined in 2001. In addition to that, I have also been one of the few people who have been able to post in Starcraft.org's forums (my avatar is taken from a long forgotten member of the Starcraft.org strategy forum named Havok23 as a reminder to me that there was at least one person who knew what they were talking about back then) prior to the creation of Blizzforums.com in August of 2001. This is something which the real veterans of Starcraft.org would know about, not these pseudo-veterans who think they know everything about anything and try to use their "supposed" seniority as leverage over the rest of the community. That kind of attitude will only get you so far, but it won't help you in the long run.

[SciFifreak90]

I will admit, and freely, that i have not been on longer than many others have. ive never claimed to be, and hold most of them in the highest respect. i only wish i had been there to know the ones you speak of demonchild, but i did not. people who have been there as long as yourself im sure are frustrated at seeing everything change and attitudes change. but it was needed. the flamers previously mentioned (raptor, baptor, kaos) were running rampant and were unchecked. after awhile, when nothing was done by the staff or anyone else, DFIK asked me to help him rid us of these insulting people. i did gladly, and we won. the flamers were silenced, whether by the staff's banning of them, as well as me; or by our own work i do not know, but the point is that we fought when no others would, and it just so happened that it was only the ones from the old site that fought these people that threatened the site and infringed on our respect. as BSTRhino said, we changed Raptor, and he'd follow us to hell and back to defend the site now, instead of doing everything he could to destroy it. call it wrong or childish or unneeded or whatever you want, but it worked. Perhaps a few of the others can sit on their hands and wait for the admins to handle things, but i could not. i saw a threat, and i did the only thing i could to fight it.

now about us seeing ourselves as better than newer members, untrue. we see ourselves as different, more experienced, but not superior in any way. we inform them of the rules, and enforce them, but our loose coalition of vets does not attack people for reasons other than the defense of the site. there are those among us, including me, that fight for other reasons, but most of us fight only when needed.

I came here because protogod and a lot of my friends over at starcraft.org were being insulted. that is one thing I do not allow to happen without me doing something, anything, to stop it. and i am doing that here. you accuse us of throwing our weight around? all the vets were being insulted, and i was not about to let it stand. and i know that you and the older members are the true veterans of starcraft.org, and i respect you for it now that it has been revealed to me. but I saw no one else doing anything about it, so i did.

I dont know about any of you others, but when a friend of mine is insulted, I help them. would you do anything less?

[DFIK]

Calm down here, people. I'm sure we can deal with this peacefully. By this point I'm quite sure we're all intent on a common goal: A more peaceful suitable, and overall better sc.org community.

[Neo]

Being a vet means nothing. If you really want to help the site you, all of you, would pull together and form a cohesive, welcoming community that is helpful, responsive and willing to accept newcomers.

Instead of having flame wars, inciting others, and telling people thier fiction/strategies suck (granted some strats may deserve it, but saying "omg this sucks" or "your story was crap" isnt helpful at all).

Warboards has a great community. And SC.Org should have one. As I see it now, and I dont spend enough time visiting obviously, but you all seem very insular. Why is it so hard to say something positive over snapping at a newcomer who didnt spellcheck, or didnt spend enough time (percieved on your part) on their fiction/submition?

That or perhaps we should simply have a strict policy: You flame, Insult, or belittle someone else, thier stories, or strategies and you get warned. Do it again, you get temp banned (2 weeks). Do it a third time and your just banned.

SC.Org is not yours, being a "Vet" means nothing if you use that status to flame, and/or claim superiority over newcomers.

-Neo

[Protogod]

god fucking damn it. people arent even listening to us, unless it helps them. for the last damn time WE DONT TELL MEMBERS OMG THAT SUX. were the ones who are stopping that. we dont think of ourselves as betters, despite the predetermined predjudice you seem to have against us. im sure someone will take this as ego, but you people had a set in belief the vets are bad people, bent on flaming. THAT IS BULLSHIT. people arent even acknowledging the god side, my apologies to bstrhino, who is the only one not on my side whom i respect. demon child, you are on the side thatis supposedly against saying youre better, yet you have a holier-than-thou attitude. i said fuck you because it needed to be said. no one was bothering to contemplate our side. if it cant be done peacefully, then it will be done this way. audacity, nothing, you people are acting like i spit on the pope, which i would never do. he is just another person, like me, and and like the noobs. we are all people capable of mistakes. we HELP noobs, keep in mind that I was not in the first wars on the noobs. demon child, if vetness doesnt make you any better, why are you being a hypocrit and involving how long youve been here?

[UnHoly-Assassin]

I don't fight for my beliefs, I fight for what is in the best interest for the entire community. When something has to be done then you can bet that I (and my fellow members of the staff) will do everything we can to keep the community going on as smoothly as possible. Even if that means removing the troublesome factors within. None of the staff members really want to have to resort to that, but if there is no other way to resolve the conflicts within the community, then action will have to happen. The staff actually do have discussions about how to make the site/community better as a whole and would appreciare any ideas from the forumers to give them ideas as to what they would like to see/have in the site. However, the final decision will ultimately be under the descretion of the staff to have the final say in the finished product. If it doesn't exactly look or feel the way you wanted it to, then there is nothing anyone can do about that, unfortunately. That statement which you've quoted was not aimed at you at all, it was for protogod and scifi's comments just a bit above mine. I apologise for any confusion.

A good way to help new members in starcraft would be a constantly updated list of the newest members, like in warboards. Then whoever in the site cares can send a warm welcoming to that new member. Also we can have a long list of new submissions powered by java or whatever just so it updates realtime (where you wouldn't need to refresh to update). 'Just thought that'd be really cool to have. And everytime someone submits a comment with an offensive word in it, there can be either a warning popup that warns them of what they're doing or simply turn those words into astrophisks (*).

ADD: I don't think it was DemonChild who spoke about how being a vet means nothing...i think that was NeoX. Neither of them are neccessarily wrong, but whatever.

[BSTRhino]

Could everyone just stop for a moment. We have two sides here, and we're not listening to each other. Let us get this clear, we can't have this sort of animosity between two sites that are part of the same network.

First, we need to identify what is the issue that we're both seeing from different views. What I would like everyone to clearly understand is the purpose of SciFiFreak's followers on StarCraft.org. To do this, I need you guys to be prepared to understand each other, and not jump to a conclusion until you understand what the other side thinks fully.

Now, SciFiFreak, protogod, DFIK, DeltaForce, DragonPaladin or whoever else happens to be from StarCraft.org in this thread, could you please explain what is the purpose of the group I'm calling "SciFiFreak's followers." Why does it exist? Try your best not to do it in a way that lays blame or attempts to offend people, that won't help the WarBoards.org members understand you. Do it in a way that presents the facts and only the facts. Also, keep it short.

To the people of WarBoards.org, also could you wipe the slate with the StarCraft.org community, otherwise you'll subconciously look through what they say for reasons to support what you think of them. There is a lot of misinterpretation going on here, and so we need you WarBoards.org regulars to open your mind and be ready to understand what it is that's really going on here. When we say "veteran" here it doesn't mean what is immediately apparent. That's the same for the word "newbie." Please could you forget what your current interpretation of those words are, and let the StarCraft.org people redefine exactly what we're talking about when we say those two words.

[Protogod]

bst ill explain something: the reasaon ive called upon my friends is because to us it looks like they have a preset idea that we are all power hungry, and the cause of sc.org's problems. my personal reason is because they werent even listening to what we had to say.

and just for semantics, we dont "follow" scifi. i just asked him here because i trusted that he would help me, and i knew he would have something to say about the preset idea of us vets. not to say you agree they do, its just the way we see it.

[BSTRhino]

Yes, I understand that protogod. I couldn't think of a name, so I picked SciFi's followers. I read that bit on StarCraft.org about how SciFi isn't your leader, it's just that a lot of people agree with him. So if it's the name that you want changed, let's use something else. How about StarCraft.org's defenders?

This is your chance to explain what you have meant, and for people to listen to you without judging you. I'm talking to all of the StarCraft.org visitors here, not just protogod. So let them know what it is that you guys do, because I think if they understood, not only would they would have a lot more respect, but we'd be able to spend more time on the problem we set out to solve in the first place, instead of you guys getting constantly accused of things that aren't true. Here's your chance. Let them know.