Improving

[Dwimmerlaik]

Can you please tell me what I should do/ how I should practice, for I really need to improve (I can bearly even beat two comps melee, and I constantly seem to be trying to revert to my old newbie ways...)

Also one of the reasons I seem to be loosing is because I never seem to be attacking, or expanding...? Any advice on how to get used to attacking more often?

Any coments are apreciated, and thanks in advance.

P.S. I heard about some training thing at SCU but I could nver seem to find it...

[Ghost_Assasain]

Just keep on playing against two computers and try setting up your bases whit which ever race you are that allow you to use as little units as possible for a good defence. (Toss, Zerg best for that) then just attack with differant Tactics until you find one that suits your game play.

The best way is to just keep playing.

[Ahzz]

Just what you SHOULD not do!Download reps from progamers from different sites to learn build orders, And practice them (dont use only one strategy all the time, people will learn it, counter it, and you lose most likely :P) Choose one race to practice with at first, later on try to play with others too :P. Play against HUMANS, possibly better than yourself because then you learn much more. Play GOOD maps, such as Lost temple, dahlia, possiblt rivalry etc. NOT maps like $$$$$FASTEST$$$$$or hunters. You will learn it by time and practise while taking build orders from progamers

[Dwimmerlaik]

I already new fastest, and other $ maps suck... ...know any good website I can download any replays from, and/or do you have any...?

Thanks.

[Dwimmerlaik]

Also for some reasone I often seem to turtle, any suggestions on how to stop (it's kind of addictice; well in other words I'm usd to it, and I do it naturally)

[MidnightGladius]

Well, turtling is a bad habit; once you get into it, it's kinda hard to get out.

That's probably also why you don't have time to expand/attack.

If you focus more on macromanagement, you usually won't have enough money to turtle. Besides, it's much better to have 4 goons to stop a drop than 4 cannons.

As for replays, try www.teamliquid.net/replay.

Anywho, spring break is coming up, so feel free to PM me any time from this thursday to next next monday. Human practice is better than any number of cpu games.

[GoatseS_BoxeR]

play better people than you never play people who suck more than you and ask some people to teach you.

[ReD_ICE]

computers are the last thing u wanna play with if ur trying to improve

[AntiNeutrino411]

Midnight,
Your post helped me a lot! Thanks...
I felt the exact same way Dwimmerlaik does.

P.S: Teamliquid is a real site...sorry

[Dwimmerlaik]

Thanks for th help, I actually have spring break right now...
Also I'd greatly apreciate it if any of you would be willing to help me, and teach me something... (if you are please pm me, and I would greatly apreciate it.) ...if you want I could post a replay, though the only on I have right now (just deleted all of the on from when I was playing real people) is from whn I played two comps, though I could always go on battle.net and get more...

Thanks.

[Garrec]

computers are the last thing u wanna play with if ur trying to improve For the most part, this may be true, but I found playing comps to be good "casual" way to improve speed. I played against comps when I practiced cloning my workers (just keep restarting the game and getting faster with it). I also played comps to practice with my initial build orders to be prepared for their initial rushes. While these builds may not be entirely practical against human players, this practice helped me get faster at climbing the tech tree. I used to wall myself in with static defenses when I trained on comps. After a little speed training, I didn't need to use a single defensive building. I also find comps good for practicing overall micromanagement with spells and such. Basically, comps are good for the little things, but they won't help you in formulating strategies and counters needed for playing humans, which I learned the hard way after my first games on battle.net.

[ReD_ICE]

lol....from that point of view, i guess so.

[Dwimmerlaik]

Also I forgat to add that I am a terran player (from your post on Starcraft.org, I can't imagine you'll be to happy Garrec.... =)... ...if that helps any... ...also I'm going on b.net today (under the username zelpharian)...
Thanks for the help.

[skyglow1]

I can help you if you want. I am gH-skyglow2 on bnet, and I am a terran player. Used to be in same position as you, a turtler, but now I'm way better, but not good.

skyglow1

[Cpt.Chronic]

Playing comps is not entirely pointless. I taught myself how to tank push by playing vs 3 toss comps on LT.

[siuloongbao]

1v3c on LT is insane. props. lol. But i despise terrans. lol...but maybe thats just cuz i used to play as zerg...for 4 yrs lol.

Practicing against comps is good if you can't play humans...inaccessible at any rate. you can practice builds and teching...but not good in the long run as has been said. Yea...its all about watching replays.

[dark-kirby]

Can you please tell me what I should do/ how I should practice, for I really need to improve (I can bearly even beat two comps melee, and I constantly seem to be trying to revert to my old newbie ways...)

Also one of the reasons I seem to be loosing is because I never seem to be attacking, or expanding...? Any advice on how to get used to attacking more often?

Any coments are apreciated, and thanks in advance.

P.S. I heard about some training thing at SCU but I could nver seem to find it...OK dont play Comps comps suck and don't get you any better.Play 1v1 lt with 1 race and stick to that race.You may lose about 1000 times or so but eventually you will get the feel for that race.Get some stratagies off the internet watch some replays with your race in them to see how they build(make sure there pro).Attacking is diffrent with every race so for instance if you pick Terran and your fighting zerg you would make M&M or marines and medics and tank and get comsat.Then you would tank his expo and entrance of so on.Expanding once again is diffrent with every race.For Zerg they should expo fast because they are good at that and helps in the long run.IF zerg can't expo they lose.

[MidnightGladius]

Well, the statement "IF zerg can't expo they lose." is sufficiently vague. What if your opponent doesn't expand either? [/sarcasm]

Playing 1000+ 1v1s with one race on lost temple can actually be damaging in the long run. It's better to play games on different maps to get a true feel for the race due to the added manueverability and flexibility. Besides, pro replays help, but can never substitute for good ol' practice.

Technically, the only way to get better is to play a matchup, watch a replay (or whatever) of that same matchup on the same map of the same opponent doing the EXACT same thing. That way you can actually get a valid comparison (only one manipulatable factor remaining). Of course, this is extremely improbable, so just improvise.

[Dwimmerlaik]

One problem I have is that I suck with vultures, and they are probably one of the best Terran units, and an important part of the Terran 'Metal' strategy, which is one of the best Terran strategies...

Also how do I post replays?

[Kamikaze_Chicken]

[QUOTE=Dwimmerlaik]One problem I have is that I suck with vultures, and they are probably one of the best Terran unitsQUOTE]

they are good but only if used in correct situations... vs marines/lots/lings they work wonders but never try to destroy a base with them... they do crap damage vs big units ie buildings

[siuloongbao]

What do you guys say about pvt and pvp? Goons against a terran wall? or drops? DT for targetting a toss' economy or goons to overpower him?

[skyglow1]

I would suggest going to here:

http://www.entropyzero.org/broodwarai.html

Downloading and installing the AI upgrade program:

http://www.entropyzero.org/bwaiproject/AI3.zip

and playing against the insane AI 1v1. It is terribly difficult as the computer gets extre resources, and if you can constantly and confidently beat them, then you are good. Play against the improved AI first if its far too hard to play the insane one. BTW uninstall the AI before going on bnet.

skyglow1

[ReD_ICE]

What do you guys say about pvt and pvp? Goons against a terran wall? or drops? DT for targetting a toss' economy or goons to overpower him?
when im in tvp, an effect basic for p would be to just send goons against the wall. obviously, if the wall is defended, u go reaver-drop

however, there are exceptions, when a terran player goes rines-scv rush, well then that would be a different situation (goons obviously wont be helpful then)

[siuloongbao]

Yea I usually hit the wall with goons as soon as I can. but scvs and tanks can complicate things...I've never tried the reaver drop though. Usually i just drop zealots and goons in some harassment attacks.

[ReD_ICE]

reavers rape workers so easily, u just drop one in, and wait for their scvs to explode. if there is or are tanks near the working place, have two zealots in ur shuttle to take care of the tanks before dropping the reavers. ofcourse if they have turrets, thats another story

[Sambo83]

wow.. this is actually a good thread, and I haven't even posted in it. :D

[Ahzz]

;D heh, sure. :P

[siuloongbao]

I think i prefer high templar behind their mineral line, 2 high templar and 2 dark templar. Buzz that mineral line like crazy! then move in with dark templar, and get your high templar out and leave the dark templar behind to wreak havok if they can, if not then just kill more workers.

[Cheapo5020]

Hey guys, it has been a really loooong time since I played starcraft, but I had a revival of interest, so here I am.

Anyway, as for a pvt game, if you a playing on Lost Temple, then high templar are great for killing miners, because you can put them on the ridge next to their natural expansion and target their miners without return fire (except watch out for tanks/scan or tanks/air support). High templar are also great because they allow more unit options, such as dark templar, archons (when your high templar run out of mana, or if other conditions require it), dark archons (I never see enough of these guys, but they dominate zerg players), and even arbiters (I definately don't see enough of these guys). In addition, it makes production easier, since unlike with reavers, you can produce all your units at a gateway, as compared to a gateway and a robotics facility.

Oh yeah, high templar are cheaper as well; just watch the gas :( .

[Ahzz]

siuloongbao, remove that siggy you got, or make it smaller. Really big, and makes reading hard :(

(edit) ooops... right. When the screen was loading, it made those a bit bigger than they are. fake alarm

[siuloongbao]

What? I changed my sig, but what are you talking about? Reading the message in my sig? or actual posts. Cuz if its actual posts, then i'll change it again if its still bad. But if its just the sig message, screw it i'll just delete it. =b

I love sticking HTs behind their mineral line...its just fun. lol. u don't always have to get on a cliff to have fun =b

--steamer of buns

[IceFlare]

Best way to improve is by playing better ppl... i dunno about your skill level but if your realli noobie... thats wut would help and asking 4 help wen u play them will help you as well. If you r like average, keep playing ppl your level and look @ pro reps, focus on one pro gamer that uses your race and follow his reps closely. For example, im on a terran user so I would follow such ppl as nada, xellos, ,maybe boxer but his time is over and maybe some randomers like eriador. point is, you get better by watching and learning from ppl better than u

[ReD_ICE]

agreed...damn, nada beat boxer 3 times straight...sad....boxer was like the king of terran man...

[Ahzz]

Nada was lucky. :D Boxer is, and will be the best of the terrans. Think about it. What do you lose at looking only HIS reps? ;P He is gosu, he beats 90% of his adversaries atleast, And, he made the strategies for terran. I respect that he's so good, and made the strategies. You will never become as good as he is, and you will learn every possible BO from his play, from the firmest of firm, and cheesiest of cheese :p hehe.

maybe boxer but his time is over
lol! Would boxer be top 12 of the world (and all time rising) if his time is over? No way man! Don't talk from things like that :P

[IceFlare]

boxers not anything compared to wut he once was losing to his prodigy oov, nada and other less talented sc players

[Ecthelion]

I find vultures useless no matter what I do with them. Mine always seem to die before they can do any significant damage to an enemy force (that and I hate their attitude when you click on them). I'm with suiloongbao, Zerg player going on 3 years.

HT's at the mineral line do work wonders. You can clear all their workers with them. On Lost Temple, I take a dragoon or two with to provide cover for the HT's against air support. Works great! ;)

[ReD_ICE]

I find vultures useless no matter what I do with them. Mine always seem to die before they can do any significant damage to an enemy force

that is bullshit, at least the part u say about them useless. in tvp, vultures own zealots like crazy, and with just SOME micro, u could get those mines to work significantly. what u r clearly is a zerg player, and ur not experienced with at least terran, im sure, about protoss, well i dunno, but yes, ht at against mineral workers is very useful

[skyglow1]

Ya vults in TvP if used correctly will totally own. Mass vults 3-3 with mines + tank support owns as well.

skyglow1

[Dwimmerlaik]

My problem is the fact (maybe you noticed from my post in the general discussion area) that I can't go ontp Battle.net, because I have satelite internet, which battle.net does not support... ...or something of that sort...

[IceFlare]

so then wuts the point of improving if your not gonna face any real players?

[ReD_ICE]

play on something that does support satellite which has real players

[Dwimmerlaik]

so then wuts the point of improving if your not gonna face any real players?

I made this post when I still had dial up... ...also I quit going here for a long time because I couldn't go on b.net... ...I just decided to go here again... ...'cause I was bored...