Is there any great rush tactics for Terran?

[usclsw]

i just to ask all of you gamers and fan of starcraft, is there any rush tactics for terran? in fact, i found that the basic rush for terran is the marine and medic usually in ratio 3:1. is the any other rush tactics that can build fast and kick opponent's ass??:chuckball

[Sikawtic]

Vulture rush, tech rush, tank rush, goliath rush. My favorites being tech and goliath rush. Although, these aren't as quick as the rush you proposed, but they can do more damage in the long run.

[usclsw]

you mean first build a barrack and then follow up with the factory and then quickly build the tech build ( alright i forgot the name of it ) whicih upgrade the air and land armor and firepower and then build the goliath right? is this be a little late when the enemy is rushing you with their marines and medics? or you have to setup the defense barrier first? ( bunkers)

[Sikawtic]

If you suspect a rush, which most good players can send some units, just build rines, forget bunkers they're a waste of money (you could have 2 rines in their place). And yes, tech rush is where you get your armor/attack/upgrades done as fast as possible (goliath-tech rush pawns).

-SiKawtic

[usclsw]

i play of the game, i usually the one who attack first but the frustration that i got is that they send a scv to my place and disturb my scvs. at that time i only started to build my barracks. how to solve this problem? is this somekind of rush too? LOL.. tell me how to solve this problem and counter attack them. thanks..:D

[Sikawtic]

SCV rush... if they attack you with a lone scv, attack it with only 1 scv, making sure your scv starts out with full life, that way, yours will win, and you won't lose too much of your key resource gathering time.

[usclsw]

i try that before but usually they attacked my scv which is building a barrack. they usually kill that scv and i am going to use other scv to continue building it. this may cause me lose some time and they attacked earlier than me. please help me out..( too much ppl using this tactics ) is this tactics really that good? hope can smash their heads!! :o

[ReD_ICE]

ok, listen up, that dude there (um whats him name? oh, Sikawtic)...what the heck are you talking about? 2 rines instead of bunkers? okok, we need start over here.
first of all, when an enemy scv is attacking ur one thats building rak, then u must CONTROL....becuz if you let him waste ur scv, 1) he is ahead of u (as u've mentioned), and 2) u've wasted an scv that could've been giving u money after u finish building the raks.
Here is what you need to be thinking about:
If ur enemy is also terran, then he is not likely to use M+M rush, since the usual way of playing TvT would be mechanic. Also, make 1 or no marines, becuz u need to save the money for teching up to tanks + gols (and believe me, marines are absolutely useless if ur playing TvT...unless ofcourse...you are a progamer, and u know what ur doing...which u arent ofcourse). Now, when your playing TvT, its better to block ur choke with 2 supplies + 1 barrack, so that there is only enough space for a single infantry unit to enter/exit at a time (not even an scv), this is to prevent from letting ur enemy rush into ur base with vultures, when u've only just finished building ur factory. I'll give you more feed back on playing terran later on.

[Basan]

you mean first build a barrack and then follow up with the factory and then quickly build the tech build ( alright i forgot the name of it ) whicih upgrade the air and land armor and firepower and then build the goliath right? is this be a little late when the enemy is rushing you with their marines and medics? or you have to setup the defense barrier first? ( bunkers)
... Now, when your playing TvT, its better to block ur choke with 2 supplies + 1 barrack, so that there is only enough space for a single infantry unit to enter/exit at a time (not even an scv), this is to prevent from letting ur enemy rush into ur base with vultures, when u've only just finished building ur factory. I'll give you more feed back on playing terran later on.
This is called 'walling in'. It's a cheesy tactic but very efficient (vs. most players). And it's not only appliable to T.vs.T games.
You an use it to fully block the entrance of your base (for examples, see Lost Temple map replays). Recall that you have to use it with at least one movable building (aka with the lift-off abillity). ;)

[8882]

BBS -build barracks, barracks at the center of the map (then supply depot somewhere). Try to make a bunker near the opponents buildings. You can take most of your scvs to help (marine+scv rush).

[Sambo83]

oooo that build irritates my 12 pool something fierce -_-

[zemagicmaster]

we got a lot of tactics here. ive done both. i thin kthe upped rines works. ok heres what u do. (in detail for parts of it) BTW all this has to be done in order to work
step 1: start an scv building and get ur other scvs to mine one mineral. ofcourse theyre stupid, so hotkey em while there on theyre way and one at a time select a new mineral
2. build 2 more scvs
3. when u have 7 scvs, thats 7x8 which is 56 minerals in 5 seconds, wait and start a barrack.
4. while building, make another scv
5. while everythings building, chill. if u hurry ur gonna screw up big time, remember ur against a human not a retarded computer
6. when ur scvs done get it to mine
7 make 1 more scv. by this time i think ur barrack will be done( not sure, havent played for like 2 weeks)
8. start a marine. make sure this barrack is CONSTANTLY making rines. if it ever stops u F'ed up big
9.start 2 scvs. get an older one to make a refinery
10. make rines nonstop with ur second barracks too. you should have like 5 or 6 by now i think
11. if at any time ur not able to make marines cos of lack of mins, scout with an scv and 10 marines till u find more mins.
build about 3 bunks for ur new base and fill em with a 3-3-4 and ur 4 i nthe middle so it doesnt die first but hits for longer while theyre occupied while ur 3rd bunk cant reach.
12. now you should have a lot of minerlas and a lot of marines. build the academy and 2 more barracks.
13. 3 barracks should pump rines, one meds.
14. if at some poiont u have a lot of gas and have upgraded to max without science thingie, make one barrack do 12 firebats, which are good if u bring em in AFTER the marines and direct buildings while theyre distracted
now u should be a rich @$$hole, make 8 more bunkers, 2 at a time if you can, or even 3 if it doesnt disrupt ur marines.
15. u should be flooded with marines. scout with groups of 3 rines and 1 medicsso if theyre getting new bases, u'll do something atleast if anything
16.with 12 barracks, pump marines with like 8 of em, meds with 3, bats with 1. this will get u a nice combination of forces.
17. when ur old minerals run out, lift ur CC to another mineral spot that u found but cant be reached by land. this will get u a little protection and will make ur enemie(s) spend about 30 seconds to make sure its gonna die. ( by using a drop)with 12 units every like 50 seconds, ur doing :/ ok. if u have enough money make a barrack and use it for securing another base.
18. ur first base is dead. u should have ATLEAST 2 more. ( yes, take the base u secured with ur bunker)
19. now make 2 more bunkers and have them fly to any other mineral spots if any are left and have them pump 3 rines to a medic, as in the build order is rine, med, rine rine. u should be at max pci within 2 or 3 minutes. once ur bases are secure, take them. pwn ur enemy(ies) with ur simple mases and hope they havent got splash damage.
REMEMBER: build build build and finally BUILD more barracks after ur first attack. try to take ur opponents expansions as they have more minerals and are weaker. if theyre not, hit their main base for tech damage. if u have stolen a base, make it get 2 barracks and pump 7 rines to 2 meds(5 rines on one, then 2 meds on the other with 3 rines after.
20. while theyre occupied with mass marines finally start techin. this will almost always win against 1v1 unless theyre toss and counter with zealots

i didnt mention supply depos. kepp atleast 8 suply above what u have

[Cpt.Chronic]

BBS -build barracks, barracks at the center of the map (then supply depot somewhere). Try to make a bunker near the opponents buildings. You can take most of your scvs to help (marine+scv rush).
That's probably the most effective rush in the entire game. If you do it right, it can work against any race.

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

As what koreans do, they watch replays on their or other people's game. They see what they can learn from it.

Bio units are greatly weak against Mechanicals. Long time ago, when I was playing against, what i thought was a noob. He keep building Marines and Medics, with like 4-5 Barracks. I had 3 Factorys. I My stragity was to mass with Goliaths For some reason, we always been, equal. I forgot how I won, but at the beggining the game, befor he could had got a suitable amry of M+M, I was foolish enough to get a Facotory 1st. All Im saying, is to have better units befor your oppenent does.

Other: I think ~60% of all game loses were dew by the lack of Air Controll.

[Sambo83]

step 1: start an scv building and get ur other scvs to mine one mineral. ofcourse theyre stupid, so hotkey em while there on theyre way and one at a time select a new mineral
You can do this a lot easier by cloning. Drag a box around all 4 probes, right click a mineral patch. Press and hold shift and click the wireframe of a probe to deselect one, then order the 3 remaining probes to a different patch. Deselect another and send the remaining 2 to a 3rd patch, and finally click the wire frame of the last probe and send it to a final patch such that all 4 are now ordered to separate patches. There is no need to hotkey.

This is the way beginners should learn to start their probes. Personally, I can just drag another box to select 3 probes after and then a box for 2 probes, and then click the final probe to send them all to different patches with even less energy expended, but that requires a lot of speed and experience.

( not sure, havent played for like 2 weeks)
I haven't played for nearly a year and I still know all my builds inside and out.

From a brief overview of zemagicmaster's post, no one should try to follow that build order at all.. =/

scout with an scv and 10 marines till u find more mins
rofl.. or you could just know the map you're playing on.

[8882]

You can do this a lot easier by cloning.
cloning isnt easier
maybe it is easier for you
Ive seen some 1st person vods and none of the players cloned.

This is the way beginners should learn to start their probes. Personally, I can just drag another box to select 3 probes after and then a box for 2 probes, and then click the final probe to send them all to different patches with even less energy expended, but that requires a lot of speed and experience.
this is much easier to learn, than cloning



zemagicmaster's "rush" sucks

[Sambo83]

Easier for us.. newbs will not be able to correctly select their peons as they go to harvest. I believe cloning is the easiest way to learn, then they can develop their own technique with more experience.

[CODEZERO]

Peons are in Warcraft ^^ i usually go and build a good defense of marines tanks and turrets

[Sambo83]

What do you do when I have 8 carriers, 10 zealots, 12 goons and 4 templar, and 6 bases and 30 gateways attacking your "defense." After you shit your pants that is?

Building defense does not lead to winning the game. It simply prolongs your inevitable death and annoys your highly skilled opponent that he had to waste 15 minutes to beat you instead of just 5.

[Ragnarox]

Building defense does not lead to winning the game. It simply prolongs your inevitable death and annoys your highly skilled opponent that he had to waste 15 minutes to beat you instead of just 5.

I have to say that that is very true.

"Permanent defenses are a testament to human stupidity."-George Smith Patton.

Starcraft is a mobile warfare game, in place defenses are useless now because you don't know where the enemy will attack from. As such you must build that defense around your entire base, constraining your base size. This is also a huge investment of resources that will not help you win the battle.

A powerful, fast, mobile army is the best defense you can ever have. Not to mention throw in a few tactics to minimize losses.

Anyways, back on topic, the Terran rush that I have seen people do the most, is simply the twin vulture rush or the one tank rush. (BTW, one tanks PWNz two vultures even if they have spider mines.)

I don't think I have ever seen a twin goliath rush...but I have seen a half dozen goliath rush. That was pretty cool.

Marines and Medics are always good, if you can afford to take some casualties.

Rushes are good for more than just killing your opponent, it is the best wasy to keep your enemies hands full while you tech up and build up a larger army.

[MidnightGladius]

Since when could one tank beat two vults with mines?

[ZeroCross]

Building defense does not lead to winning the game. It simply prolongs your inevitable death and annoys your highly skilled opponent that he had to waste 15 minutes to beat you instead of just 5. Lol, very true. I beleive a good player must have both a good defence, and an even greater offence, to win the game. The only exceptions realy, are "all offence rush" where you dont need defence, and the "virus" type, where you just expand all over tha map and trap your opponent. Both of these have some interesting flaws though.

Remember a defence is just to keep the enemy from just walking in and killing your workers, basiclly.

In any case, I have an interesting question: If you know your enemy is building a large attack force, like you said in example sambo, what is better: To launch an attack on him and hope the element of surpirse allows you to take a few units before he catches on, or to keep an eye out with scouts and sentries, so you can prepare to engauge him/her on your home turf where you have stationary defences built up?

Easier for us.. newbs will not be able to correctly select their peons as they go to harvest. I believe cloning is the easiest way to learn, then they can develop their own technique with more experience. I agree with sambo on this one, it's at least how i do it. For some reason though, I have seen times where my zerg drones tend to be "smarter" and go to different mine patches directly, even if I send them all on the same one at the start, than terran do. Is this a glitch, common fact, or proof I am starting to lose it? I think I have seen it with Protoss as well, but never with terran.

Since when could one tank beat two vults with mines? When he isnt enough of a dumbass to run over them i suppose. By the way, do spider mines require motion to activate, or can you just lay them near a stationary object and have them go off?

By the way, zergmagimaster? If you wait for one of your resource nodes to run dry, before attacking with infantry, you will get raped by lurkers, reavers, seige tanks, and high templar so damn badly, your ass will be sore the whole next week. If you want to rush with infantry, try to do it before your enemy has a chance to get enough gas and tech to lurks or templar.

A terran rush is either infantry(which pale against lurkers or templar), vultures(which pale against walls or turrets) or Leapfrog tanks(which take the longest to get to).

[UnHoly-Assassin]

Against Protoss Players, firebats are the way to go in the early game. Believe me...I love to rush with zealots veeeery early, and firebats are so far the only units that frequently foils my rushes. DAMN THOSE ANNOYING CIGAR-SMOKIN ARSONISTS!!!

[ReD_ICE]

In any case, I have an interesting question: If you know your enemy is building a large attack force, like you said in example sambo, what is better: To launch an attack on him and hope the element of surpirse allows you to take a few units before he catches on, or to keep an eye out with scouts and sentries, so you can prepare to engauge him/her on your home turf where you have stationary defences built up?


uh....right....anyway....u see...the thing is...u try to prevent him from building that army...(u know what i mean?)...and um...yeah...unless ur enemy has a few expos, its gonna be hard and its gonna take a hell of a long time to build up a big army. In that case, continuously harrass his expos so that his income stays slow, at the same time, do exactly opposite to urself, and build expos. At this rate, u are ahead of him in term of economics, and naturally, u will have a larger army earlier than him.

By the way, zergmagimaster? If you wait for one of your resource nodes to run dry, before attacking with infantry, you will get raped by lurkers, reavers, seige tanks, and high templar so damn badly, your ass will be sore the whole next week. If you want to rush with infantry, try to do it before your enemy has a chance to get enough gas and tech to lurks or templar.


i would have to disagree. I mean the part about getting a muti soon is obvious, but for a tvz game, its VERY common to see m+m VS ling+lurks. A little bit of that micro magic, and m+m could win no problem (unless ofcourse shit happens, and u realize u've been pushed back too far into ur base, and ur buildings are being raped by lurks, well then by then its a bit too late)

[Sambo83]

what is better: To launch an attack on him and hope the element of surpirse allows you to take a few units before he catches on, or to keep an eye out with scouts and sentries, so you can prepare to engauge him/her on your home turf where you have stationary defences built up?
That depends on a lot of things.. You always want your force to be in a good position before engaging the enemy unless you're way ahead and your attack is just the final vicotry blow. Where that occurs isn't too important because you really shouldn't have any big defense at home.

By the way, do spider mines require motion to activate, or can you just lay them near a stationary object and have them go off?
Stationary units, and even burrowed units set them off.

Against Protoss Players, firebats are the way to go in the early game. Believe me...I love to rush with zealots veeeery early, and firebats are so far the only units that frequently foils my rushes. DAMN THOSE ANNOYING CIGAR-SMOKIN ARSONISTS!!!
Any good terran would "foil your rush" by walling in. Firebats are generally useless against any good protoss because they will open immediately with goon and not even make a zealot most of the time.

[ReD_ICE]

Any good terran would "foil your rush" by walling in. Firebats are generally useless against any good protoss because they will open immediately with goon and not even make a zealot most of the time.

Agree. ^_^

[Kingscrab]

"8882" says it best i think... The bunker crawl.
It's UBER cheesy but it kills the enemy every time. If you're fighting AI anyhow... Wait until their wave comes, you kill it as it hits your base, then you send in your marines and a couple SCV's and build "defense" next to his base and creep your way in... This works against AI because they don't kill your SCV's right away (non combat unit) but i assume it would be harder against a real person since he would target your repairing SCV's... (i know i would...) Anyhow, just keep leapfrogging bunkers... empty the ones behind and fill up new ones as you push your way in. Repair as you go. Like i said, cheesy, but effective. You can do the same with protos. Cannon creep. Once you get 3 or 4 cannons active outside the enemy's base, it's only a matter of time. Just make sure you have enough cash to throw up like 4 towers at once so they all come on line at the same time. (as they will attract attention when they start firing at enemy buildings and such...)
- Kingscrab :D

[IceFlare]

not all matchups do you make a wallin, for zerg its just plain dumb since zlings can fit right thru. only tvt and tvp but if you watch the pro replays, namely the wcg xellos vs midas one, they dont even wall, they lift their rax and scout with it, pretty clever since it works but i gess having pro status means you can do things ur way and make them work. also most terran players make 4 rines to start since by this time you probably scouted, if you find he is zerg, you dont wanna start ur marine production now, you wanted it a minute ago and now you can continue rine production, if its terran or protoss those 4 rines can stop the scout from seeing the rest of ur base if its @ ur ramp. and adding 1 bunker to your ramp wouldnt hurt, fill em up with those rines

[Sambo83]

tvz you can wall if you want to tech instead of making marines right away. The tiny space lings can fit through is much easier to defend. TvT wall actually works against you because the depots can be more easily killed.

[IceFlare]

i sdtill think walling vs zerg is pointless bcuz wuts the best zerg killer terrans have?
marine + med+ tank + vessel, lots of rines.

[Sambo83]

It isn't pointless if you want to open with wraith rush, or tank drop etc.

Most of the time you won't wall vs zerg because it is pointless if you 11/13 rax.

[IceFlare]

well the point of this thread is to see if terran got any opening rushes, they do but none as effective as the other 2 races. you would have to tech to tanks, gols or vults for any decent rush and even then, you cant realli rush since you will have only several of them, you could marine and medic rush a zerg but thats basically it.

[Schwitzer]

Or an SVC rush. ;)

[Valjean]

Or an SVC rush. ;)
Yeah, but those are just annoying. :P

Although I'm not sure which economy would get fucked more, the SCV rusher or the person on the receiving end.

[IceFlare]

man come on scv + medic is pwnage, meds heal each other + scvs and with scvs u run up to tanks so tanks cant hit u, and u can build turrets for anti air hahaha gg =)

[Schwitzer]

Yeah, but those are just annoying. :P

Although I'm not sure which economy would get fucked more, the SCV rusher or the person on the receiving end.
It really depends on how capable the receiver is of dealing with it. Sambo taught me an evil stack attack trick with SVCs that is difficult to counter on small maps, unless you yourself are Terran as well.

[ReD_ICE]

lol...something the kor pgs call the "cheeze rush" is a pretty good example of a fast terran rush. So basically, the whole idea of the rush is that instead of building a suplpy first in the beginning, u ignore that, and stop building scvs at 8/10, once ur minerals get to 150, get ur raks, and build 2 marines, thats right, 2. ofcourse, u would have wanted an scv scouting once u start building the raks. When u've got ur 2 marines, take all ur units, and go straight to the enemy. A lot of micro is involved, cuz ur marines shouldn't die. (btw, this works better with toss, since toss would usually go for goons immediately. Even with 1~2 zeals, ur lot of 8 scvs + 2 marines is able to defeat that. Now, the most important thing is, once u are engaged in battle, ur marines need to be ALWAYS dogding the enemy units, since it is likely that the zeals will try to go for the rines. Anyway, once u've handled his zeals, its gg. He'll try to use all his probes, but since an scv has 60 health, and u've got 2 rines, 8~10 probes are not a problem if micro is well-done.

BUT..........if u fail, u lose. This strat is 50/50 chance. And a big percentage is based on ur micro skillz =)

[Schwitzer]

That sounds like a terrible strategy to me. I'll admit I've never tried it, but it definately sounds like it'd only work against newbies on small maps.

Stack attacking is better than that, but if you come against a decent player they will beat it and you'll probably lose.

[Cpt.Chronic]

It really depends on how capable the receiver is of dealing with it. Sambo taught me an evil stack attack trick with SVCs that is difficult to counter on small maps, unless you yourself are Terran as well.
Stack attacking is better than that, but if you come against a decent player they will beat it and you'll probably lose. That's a glitch. You should never use that in a game. I consider it flat-out cheating....sort of like in 1.10 when you could float a drone to an island to start a fast expo, but I consider this stack attack even worse because it can end the game extremely fast. SCVs were not meant to be able to stay in a stacked formation and still be able to move around and attack.

[Schwitzer]

Whatever, Cpt.Chronic. I don't do it in proper games, anyway. Personally, I dislike rush-wins altogether; I think they're cheap.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Oh, well it seemed as though you were promoting the exploit of a glitch as a legitimate rush tactic, which it is not.

[Sambo83]

That's a glitch. You should never use that in a game. I consider it flat-out cheating....sort of like in 1.10 when you could float a drone to an island to start a fast expo, but I consider this stack attack even worse because it can end the game extremely fast. SCVs were not meant to be able to stay in a stacked formation and still be able to move around and attack.
Ya I agree, but it's funny in 2v2 blood bath pubs.

lol...something the kor pgs call the "cheeze rush"
No "kor pgs" call anything a cheese rush. That is an american/european term. Gaeko didn't even know what it meant until Hayley explained it to him in korean.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Hayley knows Korean? No way!

[Sambo83]

She isn't fluent.. She knows enough korean to communicate with koreans on bnet about starcraft no problem.

[Cpt.Chronic]

No wonder she's so good. I bet she gets to play with a lot of gosu Koreans where they would shrug off most non-Koreans because of the language barrier.

[Jaguar_King]

Terran on island maps like Island Hop or Dire straits is all about the battlecruisers. Make a battlecruiser fleet (12 or them), some valks, and a few vessels. Make sure your islands have a good defense (turrets and bunkers filled with marines) first.

[ReD_ICE]

Terran on island maps like Island Hop or Dire straits is all about the battlecruisers. Make a battlecruiser fleet (12 or them), some valks, and a few vessels. Make sure your islands have a good defense (turrets and bunkers filled with marines) first.

.... that is so wrong. Before u tech to bcs, ur gonna be dropped bad, and plus, if ur gonna have a perfect defense, its gonna cost u.

[Jaguar_King]

That's why I said "get island defense first". Turrets, marines and valks should take care of drops.

Its cheaper than you think. On Island Hop you can perfectly have 15-20,000 minerals and a similar amount of gas and have all your islands well defended by walls of turrets and still manage your battlecruiser fleet, and rebuild it as many times as needed. When expanding go for the small islands that have a vespene geyser on them.

The only way for a Protoss or Zerg player to win is by outexpanding you. So get good at expanding..

[IceFlare]

bunkers r realli a waste of money... immobile and useless unless you cover ur entire island with overlapping fire from bunkers.... which will cost u a lot while the other person will be teching mad... goliaths with upgrade and marines will do for the relative cheap cost for goliaths and marines

[UnHoly-Assassin]

On island maps I would just make a bunch of turrets. They're cheap, expendable, and easy to repair. Some of the dropships might be destroyed before they make their drop, and your ground infantry defense units backed up by medics should be able to take care of those that got through. Your opponent would lose more than he/she's killed.

[ReD_ICE]

building alot of turrets aint a bad thing, but bunkers are just a waste. use that money to get golis and tanks

[Kamikaze_Chicken]

building alot of turrets aint a bad thing, but bunkers are just a waste. use that money to get golis and tanks

yeh but most people that build a lot of turrents solely rely on them to defend them from aerial assaults... that's when it becomes a waste of money and time

[hammocksleeper]

My favorite thing to with on TvT is (was) the fast tank drop. Two droppers, one with two tanks and one full of marines and an SCV. With an optimized build order of course so you can get them out, if I remember correctly, in around 4 min. I don't know if y'all would consider this a rush, though.

[ReD_ICE]

yeah, i dont literally surround ur base with a border of turrets, but at least more than 2, since they also act as detectors, and may prevent drops.

[Jaguar_King]

Making a lot of turrets is good as long as you have the money, but you also need either marines or goliaths just in case enemy is successful droping a few units before his overlords/dropships/shuttles die.

[hammocksleeper]

If I do a tank drop, it's so quick that you might have one turret, and I can probably still find a way to get to your resources while avoid the turret. If you have more turrets than that this early in the game then I would think you are wasting your resources and are probably weak in other areas as well.

[IceFlare]

in the early game.... if you have enough money for that many turrets..... it would be better spent on rines..... the main purpose of turrets are for detection..... not to prevent the entire sky above ur base, and marines r cheaper than 1 turret

[MidnightGladius]

That's kinda along the lines of goons vs cannons for drop defense, and in both cases, mobile forces win. Atleast you can dance 3 rines against a zlot drop....try doing that with 2 turrets :D

[Jaguar_King]

I'd say is all about the race you're fighting against. Protoss or Terran you always can go with the wall of turrets as well as some marines (preferably in bunkers) because they've got to search first the exact position of your base in the map before they can drop their forces. Zerg is a lot more complicated actually.

[IceFlare]

lets see here.... wall of turrets..... say 10... thats equivalent to 750 minerals or 15 marines... and not hard to get past 10 turrets a couple dwebs here and there and they drop zlots... ur marines can outmicro zealots because they can move if under dweb or wen the zlots get too close... can u move turrets out of the way from dweb? no.. how about zealots... can they even do 1 pt of damage against zealots... no.. unless you got some hack to make zealots fly

[ReD_ICE]

well, if ur doing 15 marine micro against 4 zealots, thats not too hard, but thats only 1 shuttle. 1 shuttle can be EASILY taken out by 10 turrets. In your case, 3 shuttles can probably make it alive, but then try microing 15 marines(no bats/medics) against 12 zeals (assume with speed).

[IceFlare]

Depending on ur gosu micro... most ranged units with decent speed can outmicro melee units. hit and run tactics

[Kamikaze_Chicken]

well, if ur doing 15 marine micro against 4 zealots, thats not too hard, but thats only 1 shuttle. 1 shuttle can be EASILY taken out by 10 turrets. In your case, 3 shuttles can probably make it alive, but then try microing 15 marines(no bats/medics) against 12 zeals (assume with speed).

you never said no vultures...

[MidnightGladius]

Why exactly did you use the word "but"? The statement before and after it are of the same opiniation.

And of course, it's illogical to simply get 15 rines without medics. That's what BWs for, right?

[ReD_ICE]

i wasn't the first one to come up with the idea of getting 15 rines instead of 10 turrets, im just trying to defend the turrets, since marines would not be a practical unit to build in a tvp mid-game, wouldn't you say? and let me restate that turrets are detectors too

[IceFlare]

In midgame where you have a lot of minerals and not much gas..... the fact that marines can be auto-healed by medics will be waaaaay better for you

[Ahzz]

WHY TVP M&M ISNT A GOOD IDEA: (midgame)

1.Zealots... they slash 'em down
2.Dark templars. all time invisible, kill with one hit. Wont warn you or anything if you dont notice em
3. reavers. Just explode 'em to bits
4. goons... They just... win rines somehow, if accompanied with other units.
5. HIGH TEMPLAR!!!! Kill huge amount of m&m in little time. Main reason why not to make M&M
Though, at the beginning of the game m&m might do fine since the protoss rarely expect it

[ReD_ICE]

agreeing with ahzz

[IceFlare]

Id show you a replay if I found it where Boxer used mass rines supported by goliaths to kill carriers and goons. And marine and medic should be able to beat pure goons because of goon damage type explosive which only does 5 dmg to marines

[MidnightGladius]

10, not 5.

[IceFlare]

u sure?
o wait ya nevermind

[ReD_ICE]

well...boxer's a legend...u cant compare him with everyday average players, what he can does not apply to any of us here...wouldn't u say?

[IceFlare]

I gess so =P

[Jaguar_King]

And marine and medic should be able to beat pure goons because of goon damage type explosive which only does 5 dmg to marinesLOL.

M&M = not good against zealots...I'd say better go firebats & medics..
but then again, Terran Metal is just better

vultures > zealots
tanks > dragoons

oh, and don't forget to take some vessels with you.

It's the midgame, right?

[Cunjo]

Broodwar:

My favorite rush tactic for Terran (early game) is firebats, marines and medics, in large quantaties, a ratio of 2:2:1 it's extremely effective against the zerg and terran, but not so much against the protoss.

The plain old firebat rush is an often effective (if not crude) way of ending a game early in StarCraft Retail versions. You get enough firebats, you can really cause a stir, though often it can require truly rediculous numbers of them.

Later in the game (assuming full tech tree) my typical raiding party consists of Seige Tanks (6-12), goliaths (6-12), Valkyries (6-10), science vessel(s) (1-2), medics (2-4), and SCVs (4-8). Numbers adjusted in relation to the suspected opposition. (ie. more Valkries if a higher air-support presence, etc...) If you have control of more than one race, things can get especially interesting, and the best Protoss and Zerg supplements are arbiters and queens respectively.

How it works:
The Seige tanks are the main event (group1). They advance and go into seige mode while the goliaths advance on either flank to hold position alongside them. The SCVs take up the rear, accompanied by the medics, who just follow them around as they repair damaged units and build missile turrets. Meanwhile the Science Vessel(s) are instructed to follow the lead tank(s) in order to reveal cloaked or burrowed units (they are imparative against lurkers, ghosts and dark templar) and the valkyries fly in a patrol loop overhead from one flank to the other, to fend off air units. The result is a slowly-advancing wall of destruction.
If the area is cleared, an SCV may build a bunker or two to march a rearguard (usually three marines and an SCV, or two marines, a firebat and an SCV) into should holding that ground be important to mission success. (if a second bunker in a linear progression area, the forward one would house only combat units, and the rear one SCVs and medics)

This tactic is often supplemented by tactical nuclear strikes in extremely difficult areas.

On some maps, this tactic offers the nominal kill/loss ratio.

[thefazant]

Broodwar:

My favorite rush tactic for Terran (early game) is firebats, marines and medics, in large quantaties, a ratio of 2:2:1 it's extremely effective against the zerg and terran, but not so much against the protoss.

The plain old firebat rush is an often effective (if not crude) way of ending a game early in StarCraft Retail versions. You get enough firebats, you can really cause a stir, though often it can require truly rediculous numbers of them.

Later in the game (assuming full tech tree) my typical raiding party consists of Seige Tanks (6-12), goliaths (6-12), Valkyries (6-10), science vessel(s) (1-2), medics (2-4), and SCVs (4-8). Numbers adjusted in relation to the suspected opposition. (ie. more Valkries if a higher air-support presence, etc...) If you have control of more than one race, things can get especially interesting, and the best Protoss and Zerg supplements are arbiters and queens respectively.

How it works:
The Seige tanks are the main event (group1). They advance and go into seige mode while the goliaths advance on either flank to hold position alongside them. The SCVs take up the rear, accompanied by the medics, who just follow them around as they repair damaged units and build missile turrets. Meanwhile the Science Vessel(s) are instructed to follow the lead tank(s) in order to reveal cloaked or burrowed units (they are imparative against lurkers, ghosts and dark templar) and the valkyries fly in a patrol loop overhead from one flank to the other, to fend off air units. The result is a slowly-advancing wall of destruction.
If the area is cleared, an SCV may build a bunker or two to march a rearguard (usually three marines and an SCV, or two marines, a firebat and an SCV) into should holding that ground be important to mission success. (if a second bunker in a linear progression area, the forward one would house only combat units, and the rear one SCVs and medics)

This tactic is often supplemented by tactical nuclear strikes in extremely difficult areas.

On some maps, this tactic offers the nominal kill/loss ratio.







hahahahaha
you have no idea how to play

[Cunjo]

hahahahaha
you have no idea how to play Don't count on it. My strategies are extremely efficient.

I would love to see how you could maintain a kill/loss ratio higher than 693/8 in a one-on-three scenario against ovrwhelming zerg forces. I suppose you must have a better way of doing it? do tell.

[IceFlare]

*sniffsniff* i smell beef

[Cunjo]

what was that supposed to be?

[MidnightGladius]

This'll be delicious.

Advice to Cunjo: You do not, repeat DO NOT, want to get into arguments with thefazant unless you are absolutely sure you are right. If not...face the consequences. Besides, some of that makes no sense whatsoever (693/8 wtf?Are those random numbers or do you actually expect someone to get that ratio [ratios are stated as x:y, not x/y]?)

[Yaqoob]

Hey...

Cunjo, I think you don't know who you are disagreeing with. thefazant is 1000 better then you or me, and probabely everyone else on this board (except Hayley).

So if he says you don't know how to play, the you probabely don't...

If you think you are so right, then why don't you try out your "tactic" on thefazant, we'll see who wins...lol

Secondly, when he refers to this tactic/strategy, who is he using it on..


The plain old firebat rush is an often effective (if not crude) way of ending a game early in StarCraft Retail versions.
If you have control of more than one raceThe result is a slowly-advancing wall of destruction.
If the area is cleared, an SCV may build a bunker or two to march a rearguard (usually three marines and an SCV, or two marines, a firebat and an SCV) into should holding that ground be important to mission success.I would love to see how you could maintain a kill/loss ratio higher than 693/8 in a one-on-three scenario against ovrwhelming zerg forces.
It is clear he is talking about playing/beating the retarded computer in the Stacraft Campaign...lol itiot

[AntiNeutrino411]

Ummmm.......

Cunjo, what are you playing?? Please..Firebats are not that effective...never use them alone...Starcraft Retail refers to version 1.04, a version not worth playing. I agree with everone who posted after your original post (not including yourself). Just please...Keep your OPINIONS to yourself.

[Cunjo]

Cunjo, what are you playing?? Please..Firebats are not that effective...never use them alone...Starcraft Retail refers to version 1.04, a version not worth playing. If it's the only version you have, then I would say it's worth playing. As for what I'm playing, it's Broodwar, but I still maintain that in v1.04, if done early enough, a firebat rush can work. It's crude, it's messy, it's not desireable, but it does get things done if executed right.

Advice to Cunjo: You do not, repeat DO NOT, want to get into arguments with thefazant unless you are absolutely sure you are right. If not...face the consequences. I shall keep that in mind.

Besides, some of that makes no sense whatsoever (693/8 wtf?Are those random numbers or do you actually expect someone to get that ratio [ratios are stated as x:y, not x/y]?)693:8 was the ratio I acheived with the latter tactic on a weighted endurance map. As for the expression, it was expressed as 693/8 for consistency because it was labeled as kill/loss.

Cunjo, I think you don't know who you are disagreeing with. thefazant is 1000 better then you or me, and probabely everyone else on this board (except Hayley).

So if he says you don't know how to play, the you probabely don't...

If you think you are so right, then why don't you try out your "tactic" on thefazant, we'll see who wins...lol

It is clear he is talking about playing/beating the retarded computer in the Stacraft Campaign...lol itiot I'll tell you what I'm disagreeing with. I'm disagreeing with an insulting appraisal of my competence. I really don't care who he is, and whether or not he could best me in 1v1 is completely irrelevant. As for arranging such an encounter, it can't be done.

As for the last comment, I'm afraid that you are the 'itiot' in this case. All of the above (excluding the ratio given) was with reference to LAN games, not AI. The ratio isn't clean with LAN games, because let's face it, some people are stupid. I've had as high as 400+ kills to two losses in a few of those games, and factoring in the competence of an apponent to produce a solid measure is utterly impossible, and unverifiable.

PS. In regards to the 'retarded computer', the inefficiency of the AI can be counter-balanced by other means to greatly improve it's success rate. This is something I've worked with extensively over the last year.

[DragonPaladin]

Ok, rush. Let me see. With infantry, you've got three types and then one developing.

Plan Marine Rush:
Fast as you can. Usually with the 6th or 7th SCV, build a Barrracks and a supply depot. Churn out Marines as fast as you can and watch your supply. As soon as you have around 6-12, rush. Now against a Terran player, you might have a bunker against you. If the bunker has more than 2 Marines, you'll run into some trouble. Try to kill the bunker, or....RUN AROUND IT AND ATTACK THE SCVS!!! I love that. Against, Zerg you might face a sunken. A single sunken might be overwhelmed by 12 Marines but the Zerg usually have 'lings. So, NEVER let lings get close to your rines. Fire when they come. "Upgrade range and Stim" for this. Against Protoss, marines are toast. Zealots cut through them so fast, unless you have HUGE numbers of marines. Cannons will help too. Sometimes in this, I think they are more effective. This is ineffective but cheap. You will need two to four barracks to make enough Marines.

Marine and Firebat Plain. Longer because it takes gas. Hopefully, you can start gathering gas while you finish the first barracks. Firebats are good against massed 'lings and with rine backup, they can be havoc against the Zerg lings. Against Zealots this is good, but the bats have too little health. Against defenses.
Terran: Good against one or two bunkers, more and they'll slaughter your bats before they flame.
Protoss: They'll have more cannons and firebats suck against cannons with their explosive-damage.
Zerg: Sunkens will kill them.

Marines/Firebats With Medics
Now we get into finesse.
Let me portary several situations.

MM vs Toss Lots and Cannons.
Lots have Large damage for such early units but ifyou micr-manage righ, you can spread the damage out and increase the life span of each Marine. But the toss can gang up on a medic or rine. Cannons will still rip havoc but at a slower pace. You might get somewhere.

MM vs Lings and Hydras and Sunkens
If you fight against lings, as long as the lings don't mass a rine or medic, you'll be fine. Lings do little damage so the rine is healed fast. Hydras have double damage and fire faster so it's a problem. Like I said, if you micro-right, you can make it. Sunkens too might cause a little chaos but the effect won't be as devastating. Wait, does sunken have 40 damage? If it does, you're dead.

MM vs MM and Bunkers/Mech Units
Well, It's a fight with who has the best Marine/Medic ratio and who has more. If you're against bunkers, this is effective. The AI of the bunker will sometimes target differet units, and little damage will be done.

Note: You know how you medics always trail in front of your rines when you attack? Well, select the Medics and click move. Then click on a rine. The medics will move after, but not in front of you rine.

Also, the development is that Rines can be good cover for tanks. Especially if they have medics. You could Vulture rush, but I'm not explaining that.

Try to get at least 2-4 barracks for a good infantry rush.

Legal Disclaimer: I know several people are waiting for me to make a mistake and pounce on my comments so...This comment is in no way reviving a dead thread. We apologize if our talking offends other people and cause more people to talk. Thank you for your consideration.

[Yaqoob]

looooooooooool....noob

Listen it is clear, that in some (maybe not all) of your details of your Tactic/Strategy that you are refering to the computer as your opponent...

If you have control of more than one race How is this possible unless you are playing the Starcraft Campaign, like Protoss 10, where you control Terran/Protoss.

Are you seriously saying that versus an opponent, (same level as you) that you can "Mind Control" a SCV/Probe/Drone and keep up and economy for both races, so I conclude that in this quote you are refering to the Starcraft Campaign...


The result is a slowly-advancing wall of destruction.
If the area is cleared, an SCV may build a bunker or two to march a rearguard (usually three marines and an SCV, or two marines, a firebat and an SCV) into should holding that ground be important to mission success.
Mission success, what mission, unless if it is a mission in the Starcraft Campiagn. I could be wrong in this.


I would love to see how you could maintain a kill/loss ratio higher than 693/8 in a one-on-three scenario against ovrwhelming zerg forces.
Cause this Endurance Map (Never played one - might get this totally wrong) is most likely a map consisting of triggers, and such, so that you are mostly playing against the A.I, and the A.I shipped with Starcraft is pretty stupid.

I've had as high as 400+ kills to two losses in a few of those games Then the people you are playing are completely stupid, asleep, or really really noob.

Cunjo, what are you playing?? Please..Firebats are not that effective...never use them alone...Starcraft Retail refers to version 1.04, a version not worth playing. If it's the only version you have, then I would say it's worth playing. Ummm, download the lastest patch, at least, it has alot of balance changes, and bugs are fixed. Go to a friends house download it, and burn it to C.D. Its pretty easy...

Listen the A.I is stupid, really stupid, I can beat the comp 1v2 without any static defense whatsoever very easy, its dumb, and as I was adviced before, it is useless to train using it. (Unless its some map specificly for Micromanagement)

[Cunjo]

looooooooooool....noob and look who's talking; it's clear you don't have the first clue as to what you're talking about.

Listen it is clear, that in some (maybe not all) of your details of your Tactic/Strategy that you are refering to the computer as your opponent...

How is this possible unless you are playing the Starcraft Campaign, like Protoss 10, where you control Terran/Protoss.

Are you seriously saying that versus an opponent, (same level as you) that you can "Mind Control" a SCV/Probe/Drone and keep up and economy for both races, so I conclude that in this quote you are refering to the Starcraft Campaign... Well, aside from the one you just mentioned (which would technically be impossible without some heavy modding, considering the fact that the protoss are the only faction with that capability, and we're discussing Terran), building maps designed specifically for it isn't difficult (heck, it's bloody easy), and it's something I do with regularity. Personally, I find the original StarCraft campaign exceedingly boring, and haven't played it for some time.

Mission success, what mission, unless if it is a mission in the Starcraft Campiagn. I could be wrong in this.The Mission is to win of course. Last I checked, getting wiped out counts as a failure, and wiping out the opposition, a success. Now, unless this has somehow changed (which it hasn't), then I would assume that it would be quite obvious that I was referring to winning a match.

Cause this Endurance Map (Never played one - might get this totally wrong) is most likely a map consisting of triggers, and such, so that you are mostly playing against the A.I, and the A.I shipped with Starcraft is pretty stupid. You think I don't KNOW THAT? I spent MONTHS dealing with the AI's stupidity and finding ways of getting around it. If you doubt it, I would be happy to supply the map for you, so you can get wiped out by the rediculously stupid AI. It's in the final stages of refinement right now; all it needs is a good briefing and a few dozen minor adjustments.

Then the people you are playing are completely stupid, asleep, or really really noob. Yes, and my point was -- that WAS my point! if you would like to extract an algorithm to calculate the level of 'noob' a person has and the performance handicap to negate it, then be my guest, smart one.

Ummm, download the lastest patch, at least, it has alot of balance changes, and bugs are fixed. Go to a friends house download it, and burn it to C.D. Its pretty easy... are you not reading my posts? or perhaps, an even better question, are you not reading YOUR OWN posts? I have broodwar!
And don't talk down to me; there's a good chance I know a lot more about computers than you do.

Listen the A.I is stupid, really stupid, I can beat the comp 1v2 without any static defense whatsoever very easy, its dumb, and as I was adviced before, it is useless to train using it. (Unless its some map specificly for Micromanagement) See above... And micromanagement isn't always necessary; a fair amount of macromanagement will usually suffice. I only resort to micromanagement when I have an highly-specific or unconventional objective in mind for the AI. There's no need to fight with the AI when you can get it to work for you... you just need to know which buttons to push.

Now, would you care to stop digging yourself a hole? or are you going to go on all day with your obtuse assertions? you really need to work your brain a bit more before running your busy fingers over the bloody keyboard.

PS. New to Warboards? yes, New to forums? no, new to StarCraft? most certianly not.

[thefazant]

i can beat the comp with one probe.
thats a ratio of 4 losses against 0, try doing better then that.
comps are useless and you shouldnt bother playing them.
kill ratios are useless, only one thing matters, winning.
i am 100% sure that you cant make a non-cheating ai that can beat me.

bottom line, you have no idea whatsoever how to play starcraft, and ill gladly prove that in a 1v1.

[Ahzz]

Well ya. You're right Fazant, if we copy what Cunjo said: "micro is not necessary if it has good macro" something like that he said. With that, its not possible to make a non cheating AI that can win you. But what if some nerd, spending years of study of coding or smthing and manages to make an supreme micromanagement script what will move the computers units... Perfectly. Computers can move all units to different places at once. But I guess that that kind of AI will never happen to come into starcraft :P

[Cunjo]

i can beat the comp with one probe.
thats a ratio of 4 losses against 0, try doing better then that.
comps are useless and you shouldnt bother playing them.
kill ratios are useless, only one thing matters, winning.
i am 100% sure that you cant make a non-cheating ai that can beat me.

bottom line, you have no idea whatsoever how to play starcraft, and ill gladly prove that in a 1v1. define... 'non-cheating'.

I fail to see how a 1v1 gave would prove anything, much less that I "don't know how to play StarCraft". Regardless of that, I would be more than willing to oblige (and more than likely get my arse kicked), but there's one problem: I can't use Battle.net.

If you care to test your earlier assertion, that my AI can't beat you, I'd be more than happy to arrange the meeting. We have a distinct lack of competent players for our beta trials, and we could definately use some veterans to measure the AI efficiency by. So if you're anywhere near as good as you think you are, we'd love to have you consult. cocky is a bonus ;) So please, cash those checks your ego is writing; sign on for Desert Storm Alpha team (http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?p=174759#post174759).

[Yaqoob]

Anyways, its not likely that this noob's AI, is as good or even close to Racine's AI.

Secondly, as everyone is saying Cunjo, the computer is useless to play against. It doesn't have any tactics that you don't expect, and it is very perdictable.

Just play your Lan games against humans, you will get 1000 times better.

But your tactic make work against itiots/noobs, but not against even an average player in Starcraft, would it even work 1/100 tries.

Stop bragging about how much you know about computers. Sorry but not everyone is stupid. I do know a good amount about computers to.

Listen, thefazant (1 of the 2 best players on this board) has already clarified that your tactic is garbage, just move on, and everyone will be happier

[Ahzz]

I define non-cheating: Doesn't use things like...

more money than gets from harvesting
suddenly just "gets" more units
etc.

[IceFlare]

If he cant play bnet... y is he on this board... with no bnet means you got no net but how can you have no net when youre posting? got banned from bnet?

[Cunjo]

If he cant play bnet... y is he on this board... with no bnet means you got no net but how can you have no net when youre posting? got banned from bnet? My SC CD used to belong to my brother. I'm not sure what he did, but apparently he managed to piss some people off enough to get the CD Key banned.

[ReD_ICE]

how does that work..? pissing ppl off can let ppl ban ur cd key? which new feature is that in which patch?

[Ahzz]

Might be that his bro kept giving his cd-key to other ppl who prolly used MH or smthing

[Cunjo]

Well, when I sign on, it tells me my account has been muted, and when I attempt to join a game I get kicked and the program exits; creating a game doesn't work either.

I'm still trying to get help from Blizzard, but haven't been successful so far.

[IceFlare]

If your muted duznt mean you cant play... as soon as u go on bnet u go to channel void and u cant msg or recieve msgs.

[Cunjo]

any idea why I can't join a game then, or how I could fix that?

[ReD_ICE]

get a new cdkey

[Cunjo]

How do I do that and how will it help?

[IceFlare]

how about buying the whole cd again... then u can get a cdkey

[Ahzz]

yea, it costs like 10 bucks.

[ReD_ICE]

that seems to be the only way...but if u happen to have any friends who arent playing anymore, ask theirs...lol (thats what i did...since i lost my cd case centuries ago...)

[IceFlare]

or you could try something i like to call aazak or elume

[ReD_ICE]

whats that

[skyglow1]

Hmm rush tactics. Depends what race youre vsing. I havent read this whole thread, but I will list the rush tactics which I consider are a rush. I'm a bit noob so correct me if I'm wrong

1. A form of joyo: This is rine + tank (+ scv if you want). You go 2 fact and get some rines at the same time with your rax. Powerful if you get a good build order for it. I like doing it against toss as it creams through their army at the start if you have good control. Don't recommend for TvZ and TvT.

2. A form of Gundam: Rine + Tanks + Vults + scvs all in a mix and possibly mines, I'm not sure about this one so someone needs to correct me. This can also be powerful if followed up by constant more waves of units. Don't recommend for TvZ and TvT. Good for TvP though :D

3. Vulture Rush: This is like getting 2 fact, then going 6 vults or somewhere around there, with both speed and mine upgrades. This can be devasting to toss if micro is good and the build order is fast. In TvT it can also kick ass and wipe out alot of scvs. Don't think its good for TvZ.

4. Bunker Rush: Vs Zerg or maybe Toss, get your rax before your supply and build a marine while sending scvs to the enemy. BUild bunker at expansion of zerg (if hes not expanding then I wouldn't recommend?) and micro etc send more marines. Perfect execution of this will slow down zerg alot. Can work in TvP too.

5. Vult + rine rush: In TvT if you're deciding to go wriaths, I would suggest getting about 2 vults and couple of marines + scvs, attacking the opponents base and take out as many scvs as possible, while building wraiths and preparing for that attack to finish terran off. Maybe try in TvP or TvZ.

6. SCV harass rush?: Send 3 scvs to each starting positoin of the map at the beginning, while getting the 4th to mine. When you find the enemy get all 3 scvs to start killing the miners off and to totally harass the enemy. In the mean time you build up your economy to finish the player off. This is hard to pull off but if it works its really good. Works against zerg if done well and you keep repairing.

Can't think of many right now. Might add more later.

skyglow1

[Jaguar_King]

6. Probe harass rush?: Send 3 probes

I guess you mean SCVs...since we're talking about Terran here...

[skyglow1]

Woops I forgot we were talking terran lol. Vs Zerg thats really good if you keep repairing.

skyglow1

[ReD_ICE]

thats very risky, considering sending off 3 scvs is going to leave u with 1 present, and 1 building, then ur economy is way too slow, and plus, by the time all three of ur SCVs are together at ur enemy's base, they're going to have a HELL lot more workers than you do, and can definitely finish u off with THEIR workers.

[skyglow1]

Ok it was intended for using probes, just putting forward the possibility of using scvs T_T.

Oooh one more I thought of with terran: if you're at 12 and facing like protoss, you start of and you mine your first 32 minerals then you get all your 5 scvs and send them to your 2nd natural while sending your CC there as well. Carry on building from there with 2 rax then rush with everything ya got. Works well if done correctly.

skyglow1

[ReD_ICE]

wait, r u saying move ur entire BASE?

[skyglow1]

Yes ^^ Doesn't take very long to float CC to 2nd natural at 12.

skyglow1

[MidnightGladius]

That's possibly the oddest thing I've ever heard of short of massing scourge against zeal/goon...

[skyglow1]

Hey I pulled it off someone, and I could've ended the game there if I knew I had an extra 7 scvs still left I could've used to attack. Its also quite funny.

skyglow1

[ReD_ICE]

still...that strat is way too risky...and should not use it, unless ofcourse u've really found a way to win and practiced like hell with god-like micro, otherwise, not very smart

[Kazansky]

Marines all the way. Make about five groups of them.

[ReD_ICE]

groups? as in 12 per group? if so, by the time u have "five" groups, your enemy would have vultures w/ mine or tank w/ siege, enough zealots, enough sunkens/zerglings, lurkers by then. About 12 marines is about right in terms of timing.

[MidnightGladius]

If someone was massing pure rines, all you need are lurkers, storm, and vultures with mines.

Oh, and skyglow, if you have the time, try to get on b.net so we can test out your "strat"...

[mr.nuke]

stupid friend:there is no good rushen tech............
me:go in waves like marines then firebats with medics then siege,etc......

[MidnightGladius]

Ehh, mr.nuke, are you suggesting we play like a defense map?

Sending waves of different units is pointless when you can make syngeristic combinations. As its said, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And that can certainly be said of the following: M&M&F > M + M&F.

[ReD_ICE]

lol...that really only works against zerg, M+M is useless against t or p, well not ENTIRELY useless, but it would do much less damage than if u went mech

[MidnightGladius]

Well, he seems to be suggesting that you send pure marines, wait for them to die, and then send in pure firebats with medics.

Considering the alternatives, I think a blend is better.

[ReD_ICE]

in that case, true

[MrBobby]

just looking at old threads..... lol, original Q: give me rush tactics for terran. after some discussion, this: the worst piece of advice i've ever seen. wtf? 12 barracks? nice BO. wanna see all marines get wasted by a couple spider mines. lol@noob who thinks he's clever

we got a lot of tactics here. ive done both. i thin kthe upped rines works. ok heres what u do. (in detail for parts of it) BTW all this has to be done in order to work
step 1: start an scv building and get ur other scvs to mine one mineral. ofcourse theyre stupid, so hotkey em while there on theyre way and one at a time select a new mineral
2. build 2 more scvs
3. when u have 7 scvs, thats 7x8 which is 56 minerals in 5 seconds, wait and start a barrack.
4. while building, make another scv
5. while everythings building, chill. if u hurry ur gonna screw up big time, remember ur against a human not a retarded computer
6. when ur scvs done get it to mine
7 make 1 more scv. by this time i think ur barrack will be done( not sure, havent played for like 2 weeks)
8. start a marine. make sure this barrack is CONSTANTLY making rines. if it ever stops u F'ed up big
9.start 2 scvs. get an older one to make a refinery
10. make rines nonstop with ur second barracks too. you should have like 5 or 6 by now i think
11. if at any time ur not able to make marines cos of lack of mins, scout with an scv and 10 marines till u find more mins.
build about 3 bunks for ur new base and fill em with a 3-3-4 and ur 4 i nthe middle so it doesnt die first but hits for longer while theyre occupied while ur 3rd bunk cant reach.
12. now you should have a lot of minerlas and a lot of marines. build the academy and 2 more barracks.
13. 3 barracks should pump rines, one meds.
14. if at some poiont u have a lot of gas and have upgraded to max without science thingie, make one barrack do 12 firebats, which are good if u bring em in AFTER the marines and direct buildings while theyre distracted
now u should be a rich @$$hole, make 8 more bunkers, 2 at a time if you can, or even 3 if it doesnt disrupt ur marines.
15. u should be flooded with marines. scout with groups of 3 rines and 1 medicsso if theyre getting new bases, u'll do something atleast if anything
16.with 12 barracks, pump marines with like 8 of em, meds with 3, bats with 1. this will get u a nice combination of forces.
17. when ur old minerals run out, lift ur CC to another mineral spot that u found but cant be reached by land. this will get u a little protection and will make ur enemie(s) spend about 30 seconds to make sure its gonna die. ( by using a drop)with 12 units every like 50 seconds, ur doing :/ ok. if u have enough money make a barrack and use it for securing another base.
18. ur first base is dead. u should have ATLEAST 2 more. ( yes, take the base u secured with ur bunker)
19. now make 2 more bunkers and have them fly to any other mineral spots if any are left and have them pump 3 rines to a medic, as in the build order is rine, med, rine rine. u should be at max pci within 2 or 3 minutes. once ur bases are secure, take them. pwn ur enemy(ies) with ur simple mases and hope they havent got splash damage.
REMEMBER: build build build and finally BUILD more barracks after ur first attack. try to take ur opponents expansions as they have more minerals and are weaker. if theyre not, hit their main base for tech damage. if u have stolen a base, make it get 2 barracks and pump 7 rines to 2 meds(5 rines on one, then 2 meds on the other with 3 rines after.
20. while theyre occupied with mass marines finally start techin. this will almost always win against 1v1 unless theyre toss and counter with zealots

i didnt mention supply depos. kepp atleast 8 suply above what u have

[Siege_Commander]

dude, major major thread necro :/

[B.A.Baracus]

dun dun dun, necro man has struck again!

[DragonPaladin]

Well, thing is M&M is quite ineffective against Toss, but there's an old strategy called Deep Six (which is 6 rax + 3 fax + ghost). Basically you replace vultures with M&M. It's a little more resilient to goons and zlots than vultures, but it introduces new weaknesses such as storm and reavers. It also needs good macro (to get 6 raxes constantly pumping on 20-second intervals), is fairly gas heavy (medics). You also are suppose to counter hts with ghosts (cloak and assassinate(?)) and reavers with lockdown. It's suppose to be very versatile if you have good micro and macro.

[Ktan]

The necro was relevant to the topic. If there's anything more to discuss, let that discussion finish and then let it die.

[U-238]

Well, thing is M&M is quite ineffective against Toss, but there's an old strategy called Deep Six (which is 6 rax + 3 fax + ghost). Basically you replace vultures with M&M. It's a little more resilient to goons and zlots than vultures, but it introduces new weaknesses such as storm and reavers. It also needs good macro (to get 6 raxes constantly pumping on 20-second intervals), is fairly gas heavy (medics). You also are suppose to counter hts with ghosts (cloak and assassinate(?)) and reavers with lockdown. It's suppose to be very versatile if you have good micro and macro.

Ahh, the ol' deep 6. Tried that once or twice. And the macro part is true because in order to have enough firepower to counter HTs you'll need them pumping non-stop. ofc, after 1-2 expansions it shouldn't be too difficult and you'll probably end up with more cash than you can spend. If that's the case I usualy build 1-2 extra facts for more tanks. If that still doesn't cut it I bump the rax count to 8.

[DragonPaladin]

Basically, the point of Deep Six is to overwhelm the enemy Toss with sheer numbers of infantry. Because stim = shitload of bullets headed your way.