The official Rap discussion thread!

[Calibur]

Tada

And now to all you Rap lovers, haters, and anything in between I present the official Rap discussion thread. A place where you can praise, condemn, or just discuss a specific Rap artist, song, album, or just Rap in general. You can also post links to any rap video(as long theirs no nudity), song, or lyrics that you love or hate. However do not wish for this thread to turn into a total flame fest so their are a couple of rules.

1.) Any arguments and/or responses will be supported by details and reason. Which means absolutely no stupid one liners such as: Rap sucks cause I hate it, or Rap is the shit because it is.

2.) This thread is only for Rap discussions so their will be no discussion of any other type of music genre; however, references may be made but if you want to start a whole discussion about any other genre besides Rap then make your own thread.(I'm going to see how this works out and then later on I might expand the thread to include other genres or just make a new thread all together.)

3.) Rules may be added later on if seen necessary.


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And now as a tribute to this newly created thread I will post links to some of my favorite rap songs

1.) Tupac "Thugz Mansion": http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Tupac+Thugz+Mansion/v=2/SID=w/TID=F436_96/OV=0/SPA=overture/SPG=first/dr=0/l=WS4/R=1/TR=1/PR=1/TPR=1/OVL=N/OMT=god/SIG=1nh6c3phr/EXP=1104740001/*-http%3A//www10.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg1I1Sg4K9k7PyMPiIRvydhx0S1smqu5o2UM5nT IoD7y48FL4sNryezZM7FKgy8VGWmLDQueVDM669h%2DFyJJa6X K%2D5JqWmiNmb0t9oYP7kBZVZ1vBsyZ7brr9bPwsHYma2ftK9i %2DzKYoOtZjwerctmr2GM%5FoVo7f6FlKVaSfmcwkJJyUnWJJh yZ5JQ9YzyFu4ISrZQetuchXWbcZxA3Y0M5KGUDh4VLCuk528Ev Bj5UD1%5F1N27CYsJzcT47oqebeL5iosHPxinwuIQsF2byXyVy PpWBkaEgbtQhh1RGumvOEOphQ8rqK3bjYPYWKhjvDmsTcstJEK TOB8ucUUhYpnoPFTdJ2ZP5haPB4MaIf%2DeiFfNAbmACjZlIV4 C5tW9MNBCmk3Lw05zdTnaAs3B634Xbbwu3Eey%5FSLfpBNpyrF yrr3PaJQD6tKV2jqiWXJSpgCyp4i9W73B7kAM4idLrrJKQYMZm 1FSkRks%5FWuO0OWI9oZU7NRBIKrrhitrrZqmHPANFirwVo9IT 9F9cA%2D8U%5FWgPIWFy1F9URsHKVbczuqpkg3Z5pkOaf7JkQ9 A6Aw4Yid0dAo9%2D7CVpdaiiTmDLHIIns20PKjDwk2x39HBboD dgpo4qA%5F9m6duQ0lF%2DA%2E%2E&yargs=launch.yahoo.com

2,) Tupac "Keep Ya head up": http://search.launch.yahoo.com/launch/search/?m=all&p=Keep+ya+head+up&x=15&y=9

3.) Eminem "Mosh": http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Eminem+mosh/v=2/SID=w/TID=F436_96/l=WIY/IYK=Eminem+mosh/SIG=17n0g9qhp/EXP=1104740142/*-http%3A//us.rd.yahoo.com/search/iy/c93_f113/eminem+mosh/music_artists_videos_main/SIG=146bec8hk/*http%3A//launch.yahoo.com/video/default.asp?vid=1131071&fs=1&redirectURL=http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/default.asp?artistID=1037847

4.) Eminem "Sing for the moment": http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Eminem+Sing+for+the+Moment/v=2/SID=w/TID=F436_96/OV=0/SPA=overture/SPG=first/dr=0/l=WS4/R=1/TR=4/PR=1/TPR=3/OVL=N/OMT=exa/SIG=1ntojm9h9/EXP=1104740185/*-http%3A//www10.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg1ItSg4K9k7PyMPiIRvydhx0S1smqu5o2UM5nT IoD7y48FL4sNryezZM7FKgy8VGWmLDQueVDM669h%2DFyJJa6X K%2D5JqWmiNmb0t9oYP7kBZVZ1vBsyZ7brr9bPwsHYma5f9G%5 Fi%2DzKYoOtZjwerctmr2GM%5FoVo7f6FlKVaSfmcwkJJyUnWJ JhyZ5JQ9YzyFu4ISrFSd92ehXWbcZxA3Y0M5KGUCCcWKC2h5Gc a6DKxFAJ2oa%2D5f4oOvcTxn4%2DeYOGJiosHPxinxMF1m0bVx H6eyY5iMniEj7Zchh1RGumvOG7rtHpeq6%5FZj4TYId9nujitS zjqJBWuPBd2fBVBYsHoPFTdJ2ZK4xeBB4MaCL2j%5Fla%2DCMC OCjZlIV4C5tW9MNBCmk3Lw05zdTnaAs3B634Xbbwu3E%2D%2D% 2Dj%5FTpl0k0bRip7PPb4gd7JfA4CPPVXNMsBatoJCiXbzVvgs B9VF6vbRQSpRWIulikEcVr2yLwLGb%2DYMC4MMVM7ztylOLx5b VIQ9ie%2DSVJKUaRtI7VOvyMqbnYIqThw59B19IJg6C2uzZiwz DpIUgX76cmg0wtkBpJj1mPl8N6q6fucXnyG%5FRI3Wl4z2TFri W2Vz21qF5bneshQxAz1v7n6E4Fix4yKcG5Q%2E%2E&yargs=launch.yahoo.com

5.) Eminem "Like Toy Soldiers": http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Eminem+Like+Toy+Soldiers/v=2/SID=w/TID=F436_96/l=WIY/IYK=Eminem+Like+Toy+Soldiers/SIG=184fefh5c/EXP=1104740232/*-http%3A//us.rd.yahoo.com/search/iy/c93_f113/eminem+like+toy+soldiers/music_artists_videos_main/SIG=146pbo6qe/*http%3A//launch.yahoo.com/video/default.asp?vid=1149189&fs=1&redirectURL=http://launch.yahoo.com/artist/default.asp?artistID=1037847

6.)50 cent "Many Men": http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=50+cent+Many+Men/v=2/SID=w/TID=F436_96/OV=0/SPA=overture/SPG=first/dr=0/l=WS4/R=1/TR=1/PR=1/TPR=1/OVL=N/OMT=exa/SIG=1mtrhk1t8/EXP=1104740263/*-http%3A//www11.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg1L1Sg4K9k7PyMPiIRvydhx0S1smqu5o2UM5nT IoD7y48FL4sNryezZM7FKgy8VGWmLDQueVDM669h%2DFyJJa6X K%2D5JqWmiNmb0t9oYP7kBZVZ1vBsyZ7brr9bPwsHYmexcNK%2 Di%2DzKYoOtZjwerctmr2GM%5FoVo7f6FlKVaSfmcwkJJyUnWJ JhyZ5JQ9YzyFu4ISrZWe9ydhXWbcZxA3Y0M5KGUCCcWKC2h5Gc a6BKxFAENoKnOePsMvL33mYmZb%2DTrzoAKN3Cj3OIQsF2byX2 Yy41mP3%2DCibZP0wtVCfikGU7QjQovq9jXhIHeKq5luTbcOjj qJBWuPBd2fBVBYr3oPFTdJ2k85m%2DCB4MaCL2j%5Fla%2DCLj yfzZlIV4C5tW9MNBCmk3Lw05zdTnaAs3B634Xbbwu3B%5FjszL TpQlp07hppcfvEJhV%2DPjjlELCSntMuQ6yp4ujTP3O%2DBBhs nNvoaVMEnpEq4YEpStFvS3ciKjHps5NsJJPXsqc2FteoeSmBQR rfeOcMOwCatZveF6RQqTyRdvFwFAISBocL0nDy%2Dy4jgqY95E 9KubB105r9go9ZDRwcgI1senM7dnkl0WnVHvs4CDLHuXR2Ee%5 F3p4pbFDI&yargs=launch.yahoo.com

7.) Akon "Locked Up(Remix)": http://rds.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=Akon+Locked+Up/v=2/SID=w/TID=F436_96/OV=0/SPA=overture/SPG=first/dr=0/l=WS4/R=1/TR=1/PR=1/TPR=1/OVL=N/OMT=phr/SIG=1mf9knf0q/EXP=1104740424/*-http%3A//www11.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg1KhSg4K9k7PyMPiIRvydhx0S1smqu5o2UM5nT IoD7y48FL4sNryezZM7FKgy8VGWmLDQueVDM669h%2DFyJJa6X K%2D5JqWmiNmb0t9oYP7kBZVZ1vBsyZ7brr9bPwsHY260cdu8i %2DzKYoOtZjwerctmr2GM%5FoVo7f6FlKVaSfmcwkJJyUnWJJh yZ5JQ9YzyFu4ISrZdfNyQhXWbcZxA3Y0M5KGUDh4VLCuk528Ev Bj5UD0ModvFCocNub2AmfnuYZL4iosHPxinxMF1m0bVxH6fyop iN3iLirRahh1RGumvOErltXopqNzahYbfWN4WuESrSr0tJEKTO B8ucUUhYpOVPVXfJmM04Gzzc%2DFQLbDa9yu6BsTyfyMxIBAM7 NqyMc4Qp3SIzTcaFhjHBNGPrnwYbL0xkBey%2DD7Y6xEm3bJir eeabMcAwuGOmEPcXG1bpg2vsMiuUq2jqURFvWRp8kwRL%2Dc0w O1Rpz4B%2DjHW2%5FLc5YlIoNgmL8zQSxE%5F5sj2bgBjPeuWE uQaT4pyaUbLdrbxL97EwFMMUgUYL1TXzeno3Rne0tlnDfnHx1N i8RkseSZ7LUJ5obSMH7u8hwugMmO%2D5iTRBbihqiw%2E&yargs=launch.yahoo.com

Edit: Fixed Links but second one olnly takes you to the page where you can find the link to the video.--end edit

PS: I like to send a special thanks out to Moser whose hatred for Rap inspired me to create this thread.

[wraizyr]

I would have to say that for the most part I loathe rap for what it is when compared to what it could be. It seems(And this is from the perspective of an outsider) that most rap covers the same lyrical topics (Thug life, bling, ho's, etc). On top of that, there doesn't seem to be much musical talent, no instruments, not even creative beats or electronic sounds. In short, hip-hop seems uncreative and just plain boring.

Exceptions: K-os for the fresh sound. Kyprios for the social counsciousness. Beastie Boy, particularly earlier Beastie Boys, for fun creativity with the fusion with punk and all that.

[Calibur]

I would have to say that for the most part I loathe rap for what it is when compared to what it could be. It seems(And this is from the perspective of an outsider) that most rap covers the same lyrical topics (Thug life, bling, ho's, etc). On top of that, there doesn't seem to be much musical talent, no instruments, not even creative beats or electronic sounds. In short, hip-hop seems uncreative and just plain boring.

Exceptions: K-os for the fresh sound. Kyprios for the social counsciousness. Beastie Boy, particularly earlier Beastie Boys, for fun creativity with the fusion with punk and all that.
Well first I would like to say that we are all entitled to our own opinion, but that it is always good to keep an open mind. And with that being said it is time for me to refute the above statement.

Like you said from an outsiders perspective it would seem that rap covers the same lyrical topics but if you would take the tame to look at the music from the artists point of view then you would see that it varies greatly. Sure many rappers do often refer to subject such as thug life and ho's in their works but it is because it is the life they know and grew up with. Think of it as a way for them to express what they feel or send a message out to others (check out the two links I have on Tupac and you will see what I mean). But then their are also those who tend to exploit the subjects and it is unfortunate but that does not mean that it should be generalized towards the entire Rap industry.

As for the creativity of Rap well you are right their are not many instruments used in Rap but then again if creativity lies only in fancy beats and instruments then that would mean that the thousands of canvases that have been painted with the minds of a countless people or the thousands of poems that have been written would mean absolutely nothing. Remember art is the essence of creativity and creativity has many forms. In Rap for example the power lies in the words, much like a poem the setting is developed in ones mind which varies from person to person as the hear the words. Many rappers also pride themselves in the ability to freestyle, the ability to instantly come up with a verse depending on the situation, trust when I tell you I've tried it and it is not easy it takes a lot of creativity to be able instantly come up with a group of words that not only coordinate but have a meaning to them. Also contrary to non rap lovers popular believe their are instruments often used in the development of Rap such as the mix table which is basically used by DJs to mix a variety of sounds into one coherent work which is then implemented to a set of lyrics and tada you have a work of art. Now at first that may sound simple but in fact it is very challenging to take of a set of totally unrelated sounds and combine them into one coherent and smooth running work.

So as you can see their is more to Rap than first appearances may lead to, like I have said before are those people who only exploit certain subjects in order to make a profit with out really concerning themselves with the message they sent out. But I'll be damned if that only pertains to Rap in fact I willing to bet that their is at least one of those people in every single music genre in existence.

Damn that took a while to write, well anyways I hope people can now look at Rap and see past the cover to the true essence it represents, and even if they can’t I’d like to remind them to keep and open mind and to try to open themselves to new ideas once in a while, who knows they might end up finding something that they like.

[wraizyr]

Like you said from an outsiders perspective it would seem that rap covers the same lyrical topics but if you would take the tame to look at the music from the artists point of view then you would see that it varies greatly.Rapping about thug life is rapping about thug life, from anyones point of view. That being said, I'm wondering if you could point me towards specific creative or unique lyrics.
Sure many rappers do often refer to subject such as thug life and ho's in their works but it is because it is the life they know and grew up with.Which doesn't change the fact that I find it boring and uncreative. Authenticity does not necessarily guarantee quality.
Think of it as a way for them to express what they feel or send a message out to others (check out the two links I have on Tupac and you will see what I mean).
Fair enough, but I just can't relate to what they have to say. I don't really blame rappers for that.
But then their are also those who tend to exploit the subjects and it is unfortunate but that does not mean that it should be generalized towards the entire Rap industry.The exploiters seems to be the most common or well known right now, so I am generalizing from them. I'll just assume the rap industry is like the rock industry; the good stuff isn't well known, except in a few special cases. (Tupac, Beastie Boys;Pink Floyd, Tool)
As for the creativity of Rap well you are right their are not many instruments used in Rap but then again if creativity lies only in fancy beats and instruments then that would mean that the thousands of canvases that have been painted with the minds of a countless people or the thousands of poems that have been written would mean absolutely nothing.The weakness in this analogy is that you are comparing uncreative beats to creative visual or lyrical art. In the cases when beats are creative, kudos; in cases where the visual/lyrical art is boring and uncreative, it's the same thing I say for the beats: No thanks.
In Rap for example the power lies in the words, much like a poem the setting is developed in ones mind which varies from person to person as the hear the words.Fair enough. As mentioned above, I personally don't care for rap lyrics in general.
Many rappers also pride themselves in the ability to freestyle, the ability to instantly come up with a verse depending on the situation, trust when I tell you I've tried it and it is not easy it takes a lot of creativity to be able instantly come up with a group of words that not only coordinate but have a meaning to them. Yeah, I know how hard that can be, and I in fact greatly admire it, at least in cases where it isn't done by relying on cliched crap.
Also contrary to non rap lovers popular believe their are instruments often used in the development of Rap such as the mix table which is basically used by DJs to mix a variety of sounds into one coherent work which is then implemented to a set of lyrics and tada you have a work of art. Now at first that may sound simple but in fact it is very challenging to take of a set of totally unrelated sounds and combine them into one coherent and smooth running work.Yes, but the point is that rappers generally don't actually play instruments themselves, at least not in performance. On top of which, I personally find a physically demanding guitar or drum solo far more interesting than a computer generated sound effect.

So as you can see their is more to Rap than first appearances may lead toAnd I actually don't need much convincing, though I suppose I didn't make that very clear in my first post.

in fact I willing to bet that their is at least one of those people in every single music genre in existence.There are. That doesn't excuse the ones in rap though, just as it doesn't excuse the ones in rock, or metal, or country, or etc.


To summarize, rap generally isn't for me, but I guess I can respect elements of the genre.(With the exceptions of a few specific artists.;))

[uchafu]

Personally I do not like American rap. Rappers are creative persons, their natural gift to improvise rhymes and all that is just awesome. But I think that they are wasting their talent, singing about the thug life and the pimp stuff, I mean...sure Tupac and some may have been real, but what about Vanilla Ice, Eminem, Snoop Dogg (im just using random examples) or the countless phonies that plague/plagued the rap industry. And as you said, rap is a form of art, but art, in my opinion should not be directed solely to making a profit, which is the main reason why rappers exist, because they want to make a gazillion dollars, so they can live the high life. In any form of art one must express its own feelings, and as I see it, many rappers only talk about their gangsta wet dreams.

Another thing I do not like about rap, is the message that it gives to society. As I see it, women are degraded with this ho' idea, men think that they need to be pimps so they can be respected, teenagers with lack of identity use these rappers as role models. Rap's effects on American society are truly shamefull

It would be nice to see more social rappers, committed to their communities, demanding equality and trying to stop all the violence and thugs in the streets (I believe there are many, but they are not hypocritical enough to adopt the gangsta image and appear on MTV).

Just some of my thougths about the subject, you can have your own opinion and I will respect it :D

[Fenix-MSG]

Hmmm Rap... well most of isnt too good. Just because it all about the same things, and its not really that great. There are a few exceptions though like most of Eminems songs, because i mean he talks about things that doesnt have to do with like thugs or gangs and all that crap.

[Calibur]

Holy Crap I thought this thread was deleted along with the Entertainment Compendium. Hours of work I thought were destroyed. Well anyways I'll tend to my thread later on.

[Sikawtic]

Rap sucks cause I hate it.

J/K, but I'm not fond of 'gangsta" rap, because I don't like the themes.
I mean, common on, the world needs to realize its not cool to say "i'm genna shoot you" instead of coming up with an actual response. I go this kid on my bus, a rapper actually (for real, hes got a studio and all), and one day he was like "i'm genna shoot that mofo" or something, and i was like "thats real cool, whenever anything doesn't go your way, "i'm genna shoot it!!!"" or something...

yeah, he then went "i'm genna beat the shit outta ya, and your whole family... gar gar"

Yeah, gansta rap is stupid, and influences teh stupid people.

But I'm going to a KJ-52 concert next week, he is a rapper ^_^

~SiKawtic

[wraizyr]

But I'm going to a KJ-52 concert next week, he is a rapper ^_^

~SiKawtic
Remember kids, it's prounounced "Five-Two". :)

[Basan]

As for any subjective matter, it mostly depends on your personal taste and mood at the time. From that PoV onwards, I'd like to state that I don't like most mainstream Rap (mixed with R&B or whatever) that I see nowadays on the TV, Radio, Online, etc. It simply isn't appealling enough for me.

I'm an eclectic (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=eclectic) kinda guy, especially when it regards to music. :)
So the few exceptions to my general 'Rap unliking' are:

- Missy Elliot on most occasions.
- Da Weasel. My countrymen and great recognized rappers in here (also by MTV Europe).
- A few oldies from Eminem.
- Ol' Beastie Boys mainly (who doesn't like Fight for your right or Sabotage?) n' a few new recent ones that escaped through my censor grid.
- Some of Pink.
- Public Enemy, in the ol' days when they ghad a tune from'em revamped in cooperation with Anthrax.
- For the same reason as exact above so Run DMC with Aerosmith, by my 'book'.
- Gabriel, the Thinker. I've translated it's artistic name, since he's Brazilian. But a great rapper none the less. His old works still jive in my car sometimes...
- Fugees and a few from each separate member mainly Wycleff Jean (recalls "Party to Damascus") or some of Lauryn Hill.
- Manu Chao, but only a few tunes of his. I atribute most of his music to be more classified as "world music". In a similar manner to Peter Gabriel (that didn't made Rap of any sort).

Almost for sure I've missed some of the ones I usually listen, but wth. I'll post'em later, if remember any.
I'm more up for the Rock/Metal main genre but like to hear different concepts as earlier said. And these few on Rap are the ones that escape from my general music balony detector (aka creativity, originality and appealing sound/lyrics). ;)

*Rambles* I know that for example in Rock genre, since I include all subgenres such as Death Metal, Black, Grunge, Punk, etc., the lyric has to at least be understandable. If not, scratch that from 'future listening lists'. :P
If this list gets expanded to other genres (namely Rock), please let us know. I'll gladly contribute. :D
Coming to think of it better... wasn't this sorta done before (fav.music genres/artists)? :o