I was just thinking: Terran got screwed by BW in TvP

[aak]

Think about it: who builds medics and valkyries in TvP? I never use rines or bats in TvP so I don't need medics (I ain't boxer...), and wraiths are just so much cheaper than valks, and can cloak.

However, toss got Dark Templars, which are used a lot in TvP. Or maybe I am wrong: do people use ever valks TvP?

[CPT-MaxsomUED]

It is all about knowing your weaknesses and strengths by the code. While many of us won't know this, we rely on instincts more. But medics and valks are still useful in any game.

If the enemy protoss uses mass air, having a few sci-vessels loaded with EMP escorted by a wave of valks will take care of them. If you go infantry then you are going to need those medics. Using medics to create and early wall at a choke point is another idea, are blinding a group of strong enemy units then sending in firebats and marines or valks (on blinded air) against them.

There are alot of things you can do, and every unit is useful in many siturations. Its all about creative thinking and keeping control of everything.

[Hayley]

Actually you're sort of right, medics and valkyries ARE completely useless TvP; although I suppose if you wanted to be cute you could go M&M.

[Sambo83]

gol range upgrade is very useful tvp.. carriers used to own even harder in vanilla.

[8882]

you can use medics to blind the observers and kill carriers with cloaked wraiths(oh no you said you aint boxer :\ )

[Jorix]

tvp didnt really change with the addition of dts, its not like p didnt use reavers or zeals in shuttles before bw...you would build those turrets and have that comsat whether you were in vanilla or broodwar

[aak]

I forgot that the gol upgrade was new to BW, I guess that does even things out a little bit. But DTs piss the hell out of me, especially when they send 1 at a time until your comsat is dry. And sairs are extremely good, but I haven't seen them in a PvT until P builds carriers.

Still, I think that DTs+Sairs > Charon Booster.

BTW: Anyone else love the blue trails?

[Kamikaze_Chicken]

i find charon boosters help more vs guardians

[Sambo83]

I find irradiate helps more vs guards.

[theResse]

tvp didnt really change with the addition of dts, its not like p didnt use reavers or zeals in shuttles before bw...you would build those turrets and have that comsat whether you were in vanilla or broodwar
Yes it did. DTs are so usefull. I would trade gol range for no DT's in a tvp anyday.

[Kamikaze_Chicken]

yeh but dts arent really helpful in pvz without corsairs (for ovies)... i dont think any race got screwed by BW i mean terrans did get medics to make infantry last longer... so now they got potentionally repairs for machines and buildings as well as infantry

[Cpt.Chronic]

yeh but dts arent really helpful in pvz without corsairs (for ovies)... i dont think any race got screwed by BW i mean terrans did get medics to make infantry last longer... so now they got potentionally repairs for machines and buildings as well as infantry
DT drops midgame are really good vs zerg. You can take out an expo before he even knows what has happened due to their powerful attack.

[Basan]

DT drops midgame are really good vs zerg. You can take out an expo before he even knows what has happened due to their powerful attack.
Provided u do it as Kamikaze said it, tag Corsairs along 2 clear Ovie detection. :)
Or if the Zergie suspects it, send another Shuttle with Archons or Reavers 2 disguise the thing up... ;)

[terranfreak13]

as you can tell by my name... i play terran a lot. i think that they did not get screwed, as most think. You could win a game using only valkyries, marines, and medics. Valkyries take out large forces of enemy air, with the medics giving you a tactical edge over the opponants, who can't heal as quickly (or at all in tvp).

Whoever thinks terran got screwed in BW, look again please!

[aak]

as you can tell by my name... i play terran a lot. i think that they did not get screwed, as most think. You could win a game using only valkyries, marines, and medics. Valkyries take out large forces of enemy air, with the medics giving you a tactical edge over the opponants, who can't heal as quickly (or at all in tvp).

Whoever thinks terran got screwed in BW, look again please! Yeah, that'll work. Wanna play?

How can you stay alive from Reavers/Lurkers/DT/Goons/anything not zergling? Do you seriously skip from M&Ms up to valkeries? What about against Toss? You take out their expansions with M&Ms? Against Zerg. Do you beat out their lurkers without tanks?

[Jorix]

you better watch out, his valks will mow down your observers!

which you wont need, since hes probably never used a vulture in his life.

[Basan]

Ah! *Lol* :D
Good 1, Jorix!

-----
TerranFreako,

How about playing a few matches be4 blowin' crap (like that) at the 4 winds? :poke:
Try 2 pull that 1 off and u'll be askin' urself wtf happened real fast... flash like! :devil:

[Shad0]

The reason why most people do not use MM against toss, is because zlots preform abnormally well against them, they dont die and with zlot speed upgrade, its hard to micro against them also. MM does start to get stronger when their numbers increase, but then toss gets Reaver or Storm, both of which own MM.

[Sambo83]

In large numbers marines, or especially m and m completely waste zealots. By the time you had speed upgrade he would have enough m and m to make you look silly. The reason terran doesn't go m and m vs toss is because toss tech lays waste to them. Templar, reaver, and DT are excellent counters to infantry.

[Basan]

In large numbers marines, or especially m and m completely waste zealots. By the time you had speed upgrade he would have enough m and m to make you look silly. The reason terran doesn't go m and m vs toss is because toss tech lays waste to them. Templar, reaver, and DT are excellent counters to infantry.I agree with u, but (4 me) D.Temps aren't that great vs. Terrans 'cause by the time u'd get D.T.'s they'd get Comsats a looong time ago... :pimp:
Unless u divert attentions 2 dry it out in other ways. The 1 at a time D.Temp rush may be effective 2 some extent... I know that they maim any Infantry unit in a couple of swifts! ;)

[Jorix]

basan you dont understand how alerts work

dts will kill marines in 1 hit, which doesnt give any kind of 'your units are under attack' alert, so unless you have a turret or sci vessel nearby, your entire army will get wasted before you realize whats happening

[Basan]

If they're sent random 2 attack (minimap n'/or locations) n' go 4 the Medic 1st, u're screwed. :P

Add: I might be wrong, but I think it will warn anyway...

[Sambo83]

I agree with u, but (4 me) D.Temps aren't that great vs. Terrans 'cause by the time u'd get D.T.'s they'd get Comsats a looong time ago...
Unless u divert attentions 2 dry it out in other ways. The 1 at a time D.Temp rush may be effective 2 some extent... I know that they maim any Infantry unit in a couple of swifts!
Well, one theory of PvT is that if they are building marines (you see an active barracks) then DT rush because DT is perhaps the best counter to gundam rush, and it spanks m and m rush too. I never played that way though. I never thought DT were an effective midgame unit vs terran. They're good for stopping harassment though.

Jorix also explained another good reason to use DT if you happen to be playing a newb. :)

[Jorix]

all you have to do is attack move--marines have a higher priority than medics, so they wont attack the medics until all the marines they can see nearby are dead

[thefazant]

if toss doesnt have dt, then terran doesnt need to get an engi bay, which makes his macro A LOT better.
its really weird, its only like 350 mins for engi bays+rets, but they make such a huge difference

[Basan]

Well, one theory of PvT is that if they are building marines (you see an active barracks) then DT rush because DT is perhaps the best counter to gundam rush, and it spanks m and m rush too. I never played that way though. I never thought DT were an effective midgame unit vs terran. They're good for stopping harassment though.

Jorix also explained another good reason to use DT if you happen to be playing a newb.

That's why D.Temps are 1 of my fav units in SC... But I think that the alert system works if the Marine (Infantry unit) isn't alone. Not sure of it, though.

all you have to do is attack move--marines have a higher priority than medics, so they wont attack the medics until all the marines they can see nearby are dead

I already knew that... just was pulling ur leg, 'cause I've done that same stupid move once. ;)
Similar happens when u leave the D.Temps by themselves, in a building rape party... they'll head straight 4 the Turrets, provided they're on sight range. No matter what buildings u may have on the path (Factories, Supply Depots, etc.). :pimp:

if toss doesnt have dt, then terran doesnt need to get an engi bay, which makes his macro A LOT better.
its really weird, its only like 350 mins for engi bays+rets, but they make such a huge difference

That's why I dig D.Temps... they'll give a busy time 4 a while (at least) 2 Terran folks. The D.Temps drop is 1 of my favs... If they're lucky 2 be dropped near Tanks, those are toast! :devil:

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

I know posting this is really late to post up but anyways. people dont use Valks and Medic on fastest map possible, most people play Fastest, like that the only tvb map they only play in. Valks and Medics are great in Big Game Hunters and Lost Temple. I mostly see Koreans using Valk rush to kill Lords, and the Marine And Medic rush technice an they work nicely. It all becouse of the ScmDraft and StarForge.

[Hayley]

He's talking about TvP.. And what does starforge & scmdraft have to do with it?

[Kamikaze_Chicken]

he probably meant because thats how ppl made fastest maps using scmdraft and starforge

[aak]

I know posting this is really late to post up but anyways. people dont use Valks and Medic on fastest map possible, most people play Fastest, like that the only tvb map they only play in. Valks and Medics are great in Big Game Hunters and Lost Temple. I mostly see Koreans using Valk rush to kill Lords, and the Marine And Medic rush technice an they work nicely. It all becouse of the ScmDraft and StarForge. I was talking about TvP in the real game, not Fastest.

However, no one ever builds valks, period. If you have a rep, show me, but I'd be amazed if you could throw away money for valks in TvZ. And TvT, you'd be retarted to build them because they would only be used against BC, and you need gols for those because they can also hit ground.

[Schwitzer]

I've seen a game with someone owning a large army of Mutalisks with a handful of Valkyries, but I agree; you don't see them built very often.

Oh yeah; I'm home for the holidays, so I can play on battle.net again for a couple of weeks.

[CovertOps]

Valks are good in stopping mass muta and mass carriers, I use then very often, but golies rock at stopping...well..just about everything.
once I stopped a...well...a whole lotta scouts(about 60 or so) with 24 valks.

'toss can pull off their DT rush...or reaver rush but us terrans got...NUKES!!!

[Jorix]

24 valks rofl...thats so many wasted resources its not even funny.

[Aqo]

if it's not even funny than why are you rolling on the floor laughing?

[Cpt.Chronic]

I was talking about TvP in the real game, not Fastest.

However, no one ever builds valks, period. If you have a rep, show me, but I'd be amazed if you could throw away money for valks in TvZ. And TvT, you'd be retarted to build them because they would only be used against BC, and you need gols for those because they can also hit ground. Actually, you don't use valks against bc, you use them against wraiths.