Terran Users

[Delta-Force]

Do u do 1 fac port, and exp early or 2 fac port, and do a rush...
or do u have another type of build
Personally i do joyo push.. or i do 1 fac port + Starport.

[Staind]

I like fast expo, mass tank attack. O_O

[Jorix]

yes, use the patented staind push

3 controls of tanks on attack move, just hit o when you see the goons!

[Cpt.Chronic]

joyo push...is that the same as gundam rush?

[Hayley]

No, joyo push is attacking with 5~6 marines and 3 tanks, while researching vult speed + mines, then after you push them up their ramp with marine/tank, you run past with vultures and start killing probes :) Joyo used it in WCG Korea last year I believe, and won a lot of games with it. It's an okay strategy, but if your opponent goes fast range + 2 gate I don't think you'll be able to do a whole lot of damage.

[theResse]

And reaver drops while your just leaving your base hurt! :p

[Hayley]

Actually, if you play joyo push right, if they go fast reaver, they're reaver + shuttle will be done by the time you get to their base, so they have to use it to defend, and it's micro wars :)!

[theResse]

Wishfull thinking :p

[Hayley]

It's not wishful thinking, I'm protoss, I would want my reaver to be done 2x as fast :P, but unfortunately, it is not T_T

[Cpt.Chronic]

so no seige research?

[Hayley]

Yes, just 2fact tank, then start vultures + vulture ups when you leave :)

[Delta-Force]

so no seige research?it comes in later,

joyorush weakness = dts

[Hayley]

Umm, it wouldn't really say so, because mines can handle dark templars, and then if they get into your base it's a lot harder to stop them, I would prefer just going 2gate ranged goons, with slightly later obs, and stay on ramp.

[theResse]

Hayley tvp me and I will show you how to get reaver 2x faster =o

[terranfreak13]

You guys, joyo rush is ok, but the best rush is wraith rush. you send in about 6 wraiths, cloaked, fly over their perimeter defense and wreak havoc back there. I mean, nobody has ever put a missle turret in the middle of their base, correct?


hmm... there's an idea to prevent overlords/dropships/shuttles from getting into your base.

[Jorix]

You guys, joyo rush is ok, but the best rush is wraith rush. you send in about 6 wraiths, cloaked, fly over their perimeter defense and wreak havoc back there. I mean, nobody has ever put a missle turret in the middle of their base, correct?


hmm... there's an idea to prevent overlords/dropships/shuttles from getting into your base.
1. how is that a rush? 2 port wraiths isnt all that fast
2. how are you planning on surviving that long and
3. most people put turrets in the middle of their base, only newbies surround the perimeter

[terranfreak13]

1. how is that a rush? 2 port wraiths isnt all that fast
2. how are you planning on surviving that long and
3. most people put turrets in the middle of their base, only newbies surround the perimeter
i've never seen anyone put turrets in the middle of their base.

[Jorix]

ive never seen anyone who knows how to play put turrets around the perimeter (at least, until after they have already put them inside their base)

[Hayley]

People generally build 2-3 turrets around their mineral line. Wraiths really have no use TvP except 12/3 & 6/9 for stopping shuttles. In TvT, 2 port wraith is an okay opening, but you don't use them to directly attack their base, instead you use them to harass or support your own drops :)

[Ark-templarius]

People generally build 2-3 turrets around their mineral line.
That's what I was thinking.

When I used to play T, I would try add one or two in places where a drop would really hurt me. Namely Supply Depot and production building clusters.

[Jorix]

you need the detection inside your base, for exactly the reason stated before...so they dont just run the units past your turrets and start raping, and preventing them from popping by your workers

[Staind]

You guys, joyo rush is ok, but the best rush is wraith rush. you send in about 6 wraiths, cloaked, fly over their perimeter defense and wreak havoc back there. I mean, nobody has ever put a missle turret in the middle of their base, correct?


hmm... there's an idea to prevent overlords/dropships/shuttles from getting into your base.
Well, since we're talking about Protoss vs Terran most Protoss will Dragoon range rush with obs, so your strat will get eaten alive. 2 port wraith isn't an option PvT.

[Sambo83]

yeah wtf is this talk about wraiths? The standard PvT opening is goons -> obs which is like the best possible counter to wraith.

And yes DT does completely spank joyo or gundam rushes. I don't know that I would rush to DT. Just open with 2 gate goon and make DT tech instead of robo tech first.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Now that y'all have explained what it is, I've actually played someone that did it vs me, although unsuccessfully. I had 3 ranged goons outside his base and a couple in mine. He came out with his force and I just ran my 3 goons to one of the empty mains. He chased them for a couple seconds then headed to my main. But when he got there my goons on my ramp, plus the 3 coming from the rear just focus fired the marines first, then the tanks and I still had goons left over to seal my ramp from vulture raids.

Does anyone have a replay of this strategy that they could post?

[Delta-Force]

Now that y'all have explained what it is, I've actually played someone that did it vs me, although unsuccessfully. I had 3 ranged goons outside his base and a couple in mine. He came out with his force and I just ran my 3 goons to one of the empty mains. He chased them for a couple seconds then headed to my main. But when he got there my goons on my ramp, plus the 3 coming from the rear just focus fired the marines first, then the tanks and I still had goons left over to seal my ramp from vulture raids.

Does anyone have a replay of this strategy that they could post?Tis true joyo rush is crap if expected, but if not, it can be lethal when toss user decides to go Reavers or 3 goon exp

[Sambo83]

Well reaver also counters joyo or gundam, not as well as straight up ranged goons or ranged goons -> DT, but it does fairly well, depending on how lucky your scarabs are.

And the problem is, no high level toss player, or even someone of my skill is going to expand when they see marines. If I get a probe in your base, and I want to do the early range, 28 nex in 2nd main expo build, I'm going to run around, and one thing I'm going to be looking for is marine count... If you make a 2nd marine which would then kill my probe since I can't run from 2 marines, and your barracks is still blinking, I'm going to make a 2nd gate or a citadel instead.

What those pushes are good for is forcing the toss player's concentration away from macro. If you make a micro mistake, and let mines pop some goons or something you can easily get owned by joyo push. Or like if I don't get a probe in your base and I put my 2nd gate down on 25 supply with my observatory, and don't have early range, I have to be especially careful not to screw up micro.

[theResse]

Uhh marines can also mean 2 tank drop, cliff gak, fast exp etc..

[terranfreak13]

srry about my innaccurate post:cry: . i have never encountered turrets in bases. usually i win/lose before then.

[Sambo83]

I suppose? Some people make 3+ marines no matter what they are doing, but whenever a terran makes that many marines, unless your probe stays alive long enough to be sure there isn't a 2nd fact.. that it's either CC or port, the 28 nex in 2nd main expo build is not safe.

[Staind]

srry about my innaccurate post:cry: . i have never encountered turrets in bases. usually i win/lose before then.
Don't worry it's cool.

[GiaDragoness]

Well, Although I dont understand about half of what you said in the first post, My stratagy is normally "builds marines and bunkers, tech to friebats and medics while making turrets, build factory, and once i have 2 seige tanks in seige mode and more on the way wit habout 400+ mineral, i expand. I often expand once again a little after i get my starport. I normally attack either with 12 marines, 6 medics, and 2-4 tanks, on an early attack, or i wait until i get about 6+ BC, 12-24 marines and half as many medics, 6+ seige tanks, A couple science vessals, and sometimes some wraith or goliath for additionall air support. I often throw some SCV in with this. I throw in vultures or firebats as needed, and if my enemy keeps pestering my with mechanical units, i get ghosts for lockdown, or if I am feeling lucky, i try to land a nuke or two, but only after i get up a very substantial army.

:smash: Smashy Smashy! :smash:

[Hayley]

I wouldn't recommend using M&M TvP Giadragoness, because they die very quickly to storm. Also, BCs are not a very good idea either, as storm/goon kills them in a very cost efficient manner, it's much better to spend those extra minerals and gas on more tanks and vultures.

[GiaDragoness]

I wouldn't recommend using M&M TvP Giadragoness, because they die very quickly to storm. Also, BCs are not a very good idea either, as storm/goon kills them in a very cost efficient manner, it's much better to spend those extra minerals and gas on more tanks and vultures.
Templar own infantry huh? No kidding? That's often why i pack either a couple seige tanks along to knock out any one or two incoming HT before they can shoot, and use my infantry to take out zealots and dragoons until my tanks can fire again. I also attak like this only if i attack EARLY. Like, before they reach templar. If i see any high templar i have learned to scatter my forces damn fast while my tanks keep shooting. If i do encounter any high templar, i normally call off the attack unless i think they dont have psionic storm researched yet.

By the way, a Templars psionic storm is a good move, but not only can most capitols ships just "shrug off" a storm or two, i almost never move any of my guys foreward without leap-frogging my tanks. Tanks can ussaully pwn high templar before they get off a shot, unless there are a bunch of them all moving in at once. Then again, templar have a range of 8, and are one of the slowest moving units in the game. Tanks have a range of 12, and takes only 2 shots to kill a hi-templar. I normally pack at least 6 tanks, and god knows how many BC with yamato gun and com-stat stations.

:smash: Smashy Smashy! :smash:

[Jorix]

sigh...go watch the 'battle of the worthless strats' replay i posted in the tactics forum...what youre describing is deep6, and deep6 is worthless. m&m dies to protoss, plain and simple.

[Hayley]

I won't be attacking with pure high templar you know.. I will flank with zeal/goon while using a few templar to storm the marines, then your tiny group of tanks will die =(

[Delta-Force]

Templar own infantry huh? No kidding? That's often why i pack either a couple seige tanks along to knock out any one or two incoming HT before they can shoot, and use my infantry to take out zealots and dragoons until my tanks can fire again. I also attak like this only if i attack EARLY. Like, before they reach templar. If i see any high templar i have learned to scatter my forces damn fast while my tanks keep shooting. If i do encounter any high templar, i normally call off the attack unless i think they dont have psionic storm researched yet.

By the way, a Templars psionic storm is a good move, but not only can most capitols ships just "shrug off" a storm or two, i almost never move any of my guys foreward without leap-frogging my tanks. Tanks can ussaully pwn high templar before they get off a shot, unless there are a bunch of them all moving in at once. Then again, templar have a range of 8, and are one of the slowest moving units in the game. Tanks have a range of 12, and takes only 2 shots to kill a hi-templar. I normally pack at least 6 tanks, and god knows how many BC with yamato gun and com-stat stations.

:smash: Smashy Smashy! :smash:m and m cant even get near cannons, reavers or cant bear to take hits from storms, even if u back em up with tanks, irs useless because if u use 2 braccks + m and m, itll take u atleast 8-10 mins to get fac, itlltake 12 mins to get tank, by that time any decent toss user would have killed ur maines and stuff with dts