How would you Moderate?

[Neo]

Because of the spark of controversy lately relating to certain issues being blown out of control, and the Warboards God thread it got me thinking...

Most of you don't hesitate to tell us what we should do, what doesn't work, etc... So I put forward this question to you guys:

How would you moderate Warboards? Keeping in mind that we are pretty relaxed considering. We aren't like some communities, I remember seeing another fan site ban a veteran (in every sense of the word) for breaking a semi-menial rule -- permanently. To me that is excessive and not exactly conducive to a good community.

Obviously i don't run Warboards, but I've been around for a long time and I like to think it's a learning experience. With the launch of Khanduras (yes it will be back) and it's own forums, I've decided to try to collect some input.

In my opinion Warboards is actually a pretty cool community. We've got staff members like Black.Ice who can be pretty sarcastic/hilarious, and then we've got AJ who is actually approachable as an Administrator (point to me other big fansites where you've got a hope in hell at even chatting with the admin?). Plus we've got a pretty good team of moderators, even if some of us have some kinks to work out.

However you guys haven't hesitated at bitching and complaining, so again:

How would you moderate? How would change things? What would you do differently?

Keep in mind this is sort of a serious thread so try not to spam or troll or anything. By the same token if you do have negative criticism for our moderation team, feel free to post that. Just try to do so without insulting or trolling. It's one thing to say "I disliked the way Neo closed those threads" and another thing to say "Neo's a stupid fucktard for closing my thread!!!1"

So, start posting.

-Neo

[Magmaniac]

I would hand out 1 day bans for small rules being broken, 3-7 day bans for more serious stuff, amount of ban time dependant on how bad what they did is.
And then something like a 150% more time ban each time it is a repeat offense from the user up to bans of one month in length.
You already know my reasons for why I think the infraction system is a complete fail.

[Spartan-II]

Don't let it get personal. The internet is not serious business, so don't take it that way. However, the rules should be followed, they're there for a reason after all. Flaming shouldn't earn a ban, just a thread/lock delete and a P(rivate) M(essage) to the member in question with the reason, and an explanation for any disciplinary action taken. (AKA Ban)

[FrankZ]

I won't let anyone feel like such a boss with big brains and brawns here. I won't stand for arrogance and those I'm-Tougher-Than-You-Are style of posting. In short, I won't tolerate being a jerk just because of the big blue balls.

Anyhow, I'd keep moral values and social ethics sturdy and firm. No assfoolery or excessive humiliation whatsoever. Someone does something wrong, humiliate once, then forget. Twice is way too much.

In short, I won't let jerks live.

~Fz

[Neo]

But Mag, usually the answer is to delete the post, and infract the person. In that manner there post is removed (so their flame, for instance, is completely nulled) and the infraction is there as matter of record.

The problem we used to have is that it was difficult to keep track of who broke what rule, when, and how many times. Infractions give us the ability to keep track of who broke what rule when, and what to do in response. Although a lot of the infraction system is automatic (10 points = ban IIRC).

I think personally I just dislike banning people since it seems like sort of a stupid answer "you broke the rules, so here's a ban" i'd rather explain to them why the got an infraction, and warn them that if they don't knock it off they'll be banned for a longer period of time.

Besides if bans become as common as infractions, don't we run into the same issue that infractions aren't worth it? And what happens when people start making duplicate accounts to get around bans? Extra work = no thanks.

-Neo

[Protoss_Honor]

I saw the title of this thread, and I saw who had made it, and then I read the first post, and I was all "Hell, I know exactly what I would do." But then, I read Spartan and Mag's posts, and went to make my own, and I realized, I have no idea how I would moderate this place. So I am going to go think on it for a bit, (and go to sleep) and then tomorrow I will post my actual response to the question.

And so, in closing I just wanted to point out, Mag and Spartan seem to have a pretty good idea of what they would do, and if you do to, then by all means, tell us. But if you are unsure, think it over a bit, weigh the various pros and cons and possible responses and consequences that would result from your particular method of moderation. Forums may not be democracies, but unlike the real dictatorships or totalitarianisms or whatever type of government you want to compare forums to, that exist in our world, forums are very easy to leave if a citizen or citizens do not like the way it is run.

As I wrote that, I realized one thing I would do as moderator. I would realize, as Spartan does, that the internet is not the most serious of places, and thus, it should not be treated as such. People have opinions, however stupid or unpopular they may be considered, and they should be allowed to express those opinions somewhat freely, so long as they are not insulting or trolling or whatnot. SO I think I would be pretty lenient about that.

[Magmaniac]

But Mag, usually the answer is to delete the post, and infract the person. In that manner there post is removed (so their flame, for instance, is completely nulled) and the infraction is there as matter of record.

The problem we used to have is that it was difficult to keep track of who broke what rule, when, and how many times. Infractions give us the ability to keep track of who broke what rule when, and what to do in response. Although a lot of the infraction system is automatic (10 points = ban IIRC). So keep the infraction system, just as a record system of bans, then when you go to ban someone you can see their previous issues to determine the correct time. And you are way off on your guess of 10 points. I try to keep my active points under 30 and that way I am never banned.

I think personally I just dislike banning people since it seems like sort of a stupid answer "you broke the rules, so here's a ban" i'd rather explain to them why the got an infraction, and warn them that if they don't knock it off they'll be banned for a longer period of time. So explain to them why they got the infraction, tell them that if they break the rules in the future punishment will be more severe, and give them a light ban of a day or two to cool off if it is their first time offense.


Besides if bans become as common as infractions, don't we run into the same issue that infractions aren't worth it? And what happens when people start making duplicate accounts to get around bans? Extra work = no thanks.

-Neo
No, the issue of infractions not being worth it is that you are not getting any punishment for the rules you break unless you accumulate enough of them at once. There is no real punishment, and therefore no real negative reenforcement to cause the person to learn. The infraction system teaches that it is okay to break the rules as long as you wait a while before breaking the rules again. Short bans for every offense teach that you can not get away with breaking the rules without being punished.
If people make dupe accounts, permaban the dupe and add more time to the original's ban. It's not really that much work to click a few buttons, is it?
If a system like that were put into place it would drastically increase the quality posting standards here at warboards in not too long of a time. New members would see people getting banned for breaking the rules and learn to not break the rules, instead of now how when new members see other people breaking the rules all they see is "lol look at what that guy did" and think "maybe he got an infraction" but no real way to know if he even got in trouble for it at all, which makes them think that they might be able to get away with similar rule breaking.

[IrishDutchman]

I'd moderate exactly like Neo, Ktan and B.I. <3

Don't fix what's not broken. I quite like our staff.

[ZeratulStukov]

I would let people post in the game room as much as they want, as long as they don't double-post on purpose or break any rule. If they don't spam, troll, flame, in other words, if they behave appropriately, they can post as much as they want in the game room. But no thread necromancy.

Also, everyone who uses the terms "bitch", "asshole", "dick" (Penis is okay), "whore" or "ho", "fuck", "fucker", "fucking" will be banned for one day.

That's what I've thought of so far...

[apostolos]

I'd moderate exactly like Neo, Ktan and B.I. <3

Don't fix what's not broken. I quite like our staff.
What he said

[HazzaDaShiz]

Also, everyone who uses the terms "bitch", "asshole", "dick" (Penis is okay), "whore" or "ho", "fuck", "fucker", "fucking" will be banned for one day.

The irony is that with that post you'd be banned for 8 days (assuming they were cumulative).

Personally, I don't give a fuck about swearing (pardon the pun) as long as it's not directed at someone.

As for overall, yeah, maybe things got a little egoistic on both halves, but personally don't think the knee-jerk reaction of assuming the staff team at fault is right. Obviously the staff will have some effect on the forum, though a forum is nothing without members.

What every community should aspire to is having approachable staff members. Going out on a limb here, as I mean no offense to anyone, maybe people like Ahzz and Protogod aren't the ideal staff members. Let me explain my reasoning, and solution, first, however.

Yes, Protogod knows an immeasurable amount on the upcoming Starcraft II, and that's what he's best at. Ahzz is an amazing strategist, no doubt there. If someone said they'd quote me on that I'd just say '"Fuck oath they are".
However, perhaps they should stick with what they're good at. If they're knowledgeable in a certain area, let them be a source by creating a sub-group of 'experts'. This includes technological areas, too, for all those people worrying about staff not knowing anything about HTML, PHP, CSS, JS, etc.
Then, obviously, the staff team would be picked out for their people skills.

Though I may have a glossy over-optimistic idea here, I feel as though it could well be decent. Then again, it could be an epic fail, so I guess that's where the democratic running of the community comes in ;)

[Neo]

Mag that would require a reworking of our infraction system.

Though it's certainly doable on a test basis.

-Neo

[Kawagata]

Generally apply the current code of conducts with professionalism and sincerity. Don't let stuff get personal.

Administrator - AJ
Senr Mods - 4 trustworthy and honest people
Junr Mods - 4-6 people who are honest but need to prove themselves.

Junrs can only ban for one day in which they must propose a longer ban sentence to a senr or AJ. Bans should only be handed out for blatant advertising, spamming or two flame/ troll posts in a month.

[Faiien]

Well moderating here at Warboards has always been relatively good. There are some flaws imo but then again who doesn't have flaws in their system. I sorta agree with Mags on the infraction system. Adding up infractions to get a ban doesn't really seem to be an effective way to punish users who in turn influence new users with their poor choice of actions. If you notice, the users who get infractions and banned always seem to come back and get more infractions and banned again, thus I think the system needs an overhaul.

Another action I would take is to modify the game room so that posts and replies in this particular section will not count towards your post count. As i see it some of the users here at warboards, who I will not name, with particularly high post counts, which they have attained quiet quickly, have done so by replying to every other post in the game room, every so often. While some may see this as harmless I call it spam. I especially did not understand why my "Rate this Sig" thread was closed down when there was an entire section dedicated to useless posts. Well, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

I'll post more later when I can think of something.

[SilverCrusader]

Moderation is a lot of work. No doubt.
But I think everyone has the wrong idea. Mods deal out punishment to those who break the rules, but they are also serve as an example to other, newer members of the site. I really love the mods we have because they do their job so damn well.
Anyway, how would I do it? If someone broke the rules I would take the appropriate action (deleting, editing, etc.) and then send them a message informing them that they did break the rules and not to do it again. If I catch them breaking the rules again I would just give them an infraction after taking the appropriate action - and if necessary, a ban. I say this because WBs is the forum that taught me a lot about debating, posting, and many other things related to forums - and I have my share of infractions for it.
Of course, I don't really want to be a mod, I've just recently opened my eyes to what a Warboardian should be and I know I still have much to learn before I would be ready to be a mod.

[Tanis]

I'd be a bad moderator. Let's face it: I'm arrogant, narcissistic, self-righteous, quick to anger and generally irritable. The plus side is that I have all the requisite feats to be a politician.

But if I were a moderator, I would have an absolute zero tolerance policy for any and all racial, sexual, cultural, and personal flaming and abuse.

That's about all I can think of right now. What can I say, I would rule with the iron fist of fairness.

[TheDriver]

If I was a Moderator :

I'd start by permabanning anyone who dares purposefully give out advertising. You can tell who made a thread to just coax user to join. That said, I'd give out warnings/deletes for the ocassional spam here and there, and would infract continous spammers. I'd publicly (if possible) infract flamers and would warn well intended or accidental necros and infract necros made to be an ass. I take no rule breaking lightly, but I realize that we are all human, and make the occasional mistake.

~Driver

[Darmago]

How would I moderate? Iron fist style.

I like keeping my charges clean and free for people I don't like for people I do like.

[Neo]

Heh, for the record we usually take a pretty harsh stance against advertisers except in rare cases.

For instance, it's different if say, I, or another regular "advertises" their site or service or something, as opposed to someone with 1-2 posts advertising.

plz dun take away my ability to whore my stuff out!

ps: seriosuly thoguh, most of you guys have some pretty good ideas. perhaps we've gotten a bit to lax around here. brb, lemme get that giant fenguin bat out of storage so I can start beating you guys with it.

-Neo

[anderoo]

Heh, for the record we usually take a pretty harsh stance against advertisers except in rare cases.

For instance, it's different if say, I, or another regular "advertises" their site or service or something, as opposed to someone with 1-2 posts advertising.

plz dun take away my ability to whore my stuff out!

ps: seriosuly thoguh, most of you guys have some pretty good ideas. perhaps we've gotten a bit to lax around here. brb, lemme get that giant fenguin bat out of storage so I can start beating you guys with it.

-Neo

Nonono, you're not lax enough! If warboards doesn't collapse into a series of threads supporting neo-nazism then you're doing your job right. besides, when you're on your death bed, are you gonna say "*sigh* if I only I had spent more time online deleting posts that didn't contribute the pre-deteremined amount of bullshit to the discussion about tetris. So many one-liners got away that I just wish i could have back..."

[ZeratulStukov]

Here's a suggestion.

Here's a more "weird" forum rule, which I haven't encountered on any other forum: it is not allowed to post in a thread where the last post is older than a few months. From what I've heard that's called thread necromancy.

Okay, it's a weird rule. But since it's a rule, it can't be broken. However, yesterday (the message date is 08-08-2008), a guy named Bad, revived seven threads in the Starcraft 2 debriefing room. Seven threads in which the last post before Bad's was either from 2004 or 2005.
Seven different thread necromancies, each being a one-liner message, and upon looking at the content of the post, I believe it is not only thread revival but also spam.

Seriously, if I was a moderator, I'd give him a nice five-day ban and send him a Private Message with the forum rules, underlined and bolded being "Threads that haven't been posted in for about a month (or more) are considered, "dead" and should not be resurrected. This is because the original posters have clearly moved on from the discussion and more than likely will not want to continue it after so long.

Particularly, thread revivers generally do so by posting a very spam-like post that wouldn't be considered constructive for the discussion anyway. "

I have seen the threads were locked (recently, obviously), thus thinking that a moderator saw the thread necromancy, but didn't even infract our little necromancer, Bad.

So, yeah, I'd ban his ass. :mad:

[Vhaeraun]

I would let people post in the game room as much as they want, as long as they don't double-post on purpose or break any rule. If they don't spam, troll, flame, in other words, if they behave appropriately, they can post as much as they want in the game room. But no thread necromancy.
If you remove the rules for one forum, you would have to do the same for the others. Spamming the game room is still spamming

Another action I would take is to modify the game room so that posts and replies in this particular section will not count towards your post count. As i see it some of the users here at warboards, who I will not name, with particularly high post counts, which they have attained quiet quickly, have done so by replying to every other post in the game room, every so often. While some may see this as harmless I call it spam. I especially did not understand why my "Rate this Sig" thread was closed down when there was an entire section dedicated to useless posts. Well, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.
I feel the same about this, and have mentioned it before, but AJ says that post count doesn't give anyone anything save the 'I has moar posts than you' attitude, and I'm inclined to agree. Maybe if post count had more of a point than simply a number, this would be implemented, but I doubt that will happen.

[Gunmonk]

I would actually propose the same thing that mag has been saying. I, can be, and have been a spammy member, and honestly, even though I have argued with the majority of infractions that I have gotten, they were for things I knowingly did against the rules(though I might add that the infraction for the rickroll was a bit much). Honestly, I think until people get the idea that they need to quit acting like five year olds on a forum(and speaking of myself as well), we need to tighten up the forum rules to near IR quality. I'm okay with the occasional drunk thread, and the occasional would you rather type post, however, it has gone way above the top.

Bans would allow anyone and everyone to get a message that the infract system has failed to enforce. Granted, it works to some extent, but to paraphrase mag last night in the IRC "I can see when they expire and know that I need to ration out my assholeness for a bit" I have often done the same thing. Honestly, and I say this not trying to troll, GA was great in that respect as he preferred to infract someone heavily enough so that the next time it happened, they got a +3 day ban. And to be honest, his trollish style often made me think twice before posting, or saying anything, it in all actuality allowed me to learn how to post on a forum.

If I were in your shoes, that is exactly what I would and vigilantly do. In all honesty, its not the mods faults, its our faults for establishing a norm that has been allowed. We need to break those- and many other habits- which I most certainly hope will happen. To quote Roosevelt "Walk softly and carry a big stick". An iron fist is good, it worked in the IR, just be careful to not go over the top.

So to answer your question Neo, lets suspend democracy a bit and enforce some martial law. That is what I, and a few others have been calling for.

As for negative criticism, I don't much have any. Though I think a moderator has taken things over the top, I wish there were a better way to have a check for those sorts of things.

[kongurous]

Pretty much the same way I did when I was a moderator. Be certain in my moderation; refuse to back down (usually) when I don't believe that the rules are being interpreted correctly or enforced enough and to do everything within my power to ensure that the rules are being enforced sufficiently. I wouldn't be a moderator who is a complete asshole to the entire community for no good reason. If someone disagreed with my actions, I wouldn't tell them "up yours, take it up with AJ", I would explain myself and if problems persisted, then tell them to bug AJ.

[DoctorZettabyte]

How would I moderate?

One or two warnings for first spamming offenses, then infractions worth 5-10 points from there out.
Flame wars will be first deleted, and then a 10-point infraction for all offending parties will be issued.
Trolling will result in a 5-point infraction.
Advertising will result in a one or two week ban if the user is an established poster, and perma-bans for all new users.
Offensive posts (hate speech, excessive swearing, etc,.) will result in a ten-point or fifteen-point infraction.
Thread necros will follow the same rules as spamming.


I think I'd have to know what actually moderating is like to make an accurate guess on what to improve. :-)
Upon thinking about it further, I, again, like the staff the way they are right now. They're smart, funny, approachable, and they know how to do their job, and they do the job right.

-DocZetta

I've also noticed that the moderators are tightening up the law lately. Odd. It would seem that all hell broke loose without me. :-P

[U-238]

Personally, I'd probably end up moderating the same way I moderate the IRC channel.

No bans unless it's absolutely necessary/obvious that rules have been broken and, infractions/warnings only when people are getting a little too big for their britches.

Yea, it's simple, but why complicate things?

[DoctorZettabyte]

This reminds me of a particular thread where we all thought we were going to vote for a moderator.

Turned out it was total bullshit. Good times.

-DocZetta

[Vhaeraun]

This reminds me of a particular thread where we all thought we were going to vote for a moderator.

Turned out it was total bullshit. Good times.

-DocZetta
You've been a member here long enough to know that nearly anything that comes out of BI's mouth is utter bullshit. ;p

[TheDriver]

You should know 90% of what comes out of my mouth is BS.

Haha.

[DoctorZettabyte]

You've been a member here long enough to know that nearly anything that comes out of BI's mouth is utter bullshit. ;p

It wasn't Black.Ice to begin with, noob. :-P

Yeah, I should have learned after he tried to get me to believe AJ was going to be a part of some European space program.

I actually bought it.

For a whole five minutes, too.

-DocZetta

[TheDriver]

haha. You mean he wasn't? DAMN BI!

[3Vee]

How would I moderate?

I've only been an active member of two other large sites, with a smaller one thrown in there. I'll leave them anonymous, but I'll say this: on one site, it was almost entirely letter-of-the-law - moreso as the site grew. Didn't know any other way to keep things in hand. Although in this case, there were numerous younger members as well, so it was almost necessary. But the mods were accessible if you had problems with something.

On another site, there were, for all intents and purposes, no mods. The only time anything even got deleted was if it blatantly broke site rules and someone complained.

On the small site, the only thing the admins do is delete spam. It's a tight enough community that the mods aren't really necessary - anyone who gets out of line is mocked (mercilessly?) back into line. Although it's not really a line as much as a big gray area.

What I'm getting at is this: all these sites work, andget along fairly well. Moderating policies on any site are going to be idiosyncratic and personal. The more legalistic enforcement gets, the less room members have and you end up missing something - spirit, or flair.

If I'm a mod, I treat the rules basically as guidelines - spirit of the law as I see it. The mod's job, imo, is to have the bucket of water ready when the juggler drops a torch, not to stop the guy from juggling the torch in the first place. I say on the whole the mods here do a great job of that - though everyone has slightly different standards.

[SilverCrusader]

I've also noticed that the moderators are tightening up the law lately. Odd. It would seem that all hell broke loose without me. :-P
It is the newer members :P, they have to.

Yeah, I should have learned after he tried to get me to believe AJ was going to be a part of some European space program.

I actually bought it.
You mean he isn't? Damn, I've been fooled. Curse you BI.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

If I were a mod I would delete the petty Uber/Proto bitchfest post in this thread and give them both infractions for flaming each other. Seriously, guys, get over it. Just PM each other rather then arguing in a sticky.

[FrankZ]

I would make excessive trolling an insta-ban instead of a usual infraction. Maybe a single day or two days ban that would really discipline the offender. Infractions don't usually scare wits off nuts. Since they don't do any harm at all unless stacked and become bans, which can be easily avoided. In short, I'd insta-ban flamers so that they'd get real whips, not just warnings.

~Fz

[DoctorZettabyte]

What the hell.

Ban, ban, ban, infraction, rep whoring, ban, ban, another ban, IRC op, ban irc people, ban, warning, ban, spam the staff room, ban, ban, ban, infraction, ban, ban ban.

Can't you people have a heart and just dish out a simple infraction? This isn't an MSec prison, you know.

-DocZetta

[FrankZ]

What the hell.

Ban, ban, ban, infraction, rep whoring, ban, ban, another ban, IRC op, ban irc people, ban, warning, ban, spam the staff room, ban, ban, ban, infraction, ban, ban ban.

Can't you people have a heart and just dish out a simple infraction? This isn't an MSec prison, you know.

-DocZetta
You're right. This is a shitpit full of immorales with people like you, who don't care much about infractions.

~Fz

[DoctorZettabyte]

You're right. This is a shitpit full of immorales with people like you, who don't care much about infractions.

I've only gotten two, and I meant that post as a bit of a joke. It's a take on how most of the posts in this thread are reading. My more serious one can be found on page three.

-DocZetta

[Protogod]

Alright, I'm done bullshitting now. While talking to people around the community about my recent decision to turn off my moderator stuff, and to take a break of moderating for a short time, I ended up being reminded of something Schwitzer said to me a while back.

Looked it up, but the exact quote is lost to the millennia. Bottom line was that shit sucks, but theres a reason I'm a mod. And regardless of how things get, you cant let the fucking sand monkeys on these sites get to you. Its tough, doing a thankless job, moreover, listening to people criticize everything you do while you do your thankless job.

Either way, I, like most people, adore schwitty. So I won't be telling you how I would moderate. I'll tell you how it is.

I'm going to work it like every other day. Get up, check wb first thing after my morning shower. Read the same stale question in the sc section. See some petty arguing in the ML. Deal with it as I deem necessary.

Listen to people tell you that they, in fact, werent breaking the rules because of ________ . Exchange a word or so and tell them to ask another staff member for further questions.

Log onto sc.org to find out that it is still broken. Log into Ixius, our backend control panel, to see that it is still broken, again, because there is no one around to fix it. Think about all the stuff that needs to be done, approvals for every section, keeping the other sc.org staff members in line, agreeing to ideas for new contests and promotions, suggesting a change in my approvals staff because they're woefully inadequate, look up and post whatever new SCII info I can find. Try to find time to host another seemingly successful contest until every contestant bails and tells -me- that they were too busy to even start. Fill out Monthly feedback reports for a Blizzard corp. that gives us no special access or news or info to our benefit, much less actually listening to the notices sent in the report. Posting and stickying monthly questions that blizzard cant even keep on a regular schedule.

Checking the new khanduras to see if its been fixed yet, which it, of course, has not been. Reading my tons of hatemail, and talking to one or two people that actually notices half the work that gets done. Listening to staff members who are, in fact, not above me, talk down to me as if I disobeyed them. Bothering AJ whenever he's actually online, begging for help with this or that.

Logging out, sighing, and going to my real life job, since my paycheck from .org, instead, went to new updates for WarBoards.

And thats just MORNING-moderating .org. You havent even touched my Real Life.

[Black.Ice]

So the question is how would we moderate. I guess I'll change that to how I moderate and I'll ask you for some feedback on my style. Let me know if I can change anything to make it better.

Here are a few things I follow in no particular order:

1. I'm a normal member, but I have a few extra things to do. Clean up threads, delete spam, etc. I don't have any power, nor am I in any way above the newest guy that joined today. I treat (or atleast try to) everyone the same the same way.

2. Rarely give out infractions. The system is broken. I've hated it since the beginning and I don't give out infractions at all. If you've gotten an infraction from me, it's because I randomly felt like giving it out, and it's usually a warning.

The infraction system, other than it's logging purposes, is complete, utter bullshit. It doesn't do anything and it teaches people that they can break the rules and they'll get a little automated PM giving them points which will lead to the ban. If I was inclined to, I'd beat the system and stay below the 45 points needed to get a ban. I've always hated it, but the rest of the staff loves it, so I don't complain. I prefer to deal with people via PM.

3. Laugh at everything. This is a forum, not life. There can't be any drama. We're here to talk with people, not gossip and make this stressful. If I ever get stressed out, I leave for a few days and come back when I want to. It's not a job, and the things we deal with are not important. If people are arguing or spamming, big deal. Delete the posts and move on. If someone tells me to fuck off, laugh. Who cares, delete the post and move on.



I think those are a few things that I try doing. Now, here are a few moderating tips I'd like to share with our staff:



Delete threads instead of locking them - Locking them doesn't help, deleting it gets rid of the problem. It's kinda like vandalism. Locking a thread is stopping the dude from tagging your wall whereas deleting it like cleaning the wall. When you stop the guy, the wall is still messed up and everyone can see the damage that was done. Deleting it fixes it and doesn't allow anyone to get the last word or some sarcastic remark.
Delete posts -- I've done this to quite a few people, but I delete posts if they off flame / troll. I usually let minor trolls slide as long as they contribute in someway, but if someone insults someone, I delete it right away. Even if 99% of the rest of their post was on topic, I delete it. I remember someone posted something that was really long. I think it was Xenon. It was a great post, but he concluded with a, "BTW, UserX, fuck you." I deleted the entire post. Kinda annoying for him to put all that effort into it and have it deleted. It served as a good reminder for him not to insult anyone.
Talk with members - A simple PM saying, "Yo, you broke the rules, stop it," goes a lot further than giving someone a 10 point infraction for spamming.
Understand people - I've noticed people get either somewhat scared / nervous to get a PM from a mod or they get defensive. Remember that they're people and that everyone breaks rules. There here to have fun.
Lastly, remember this: We're part of a community, this is not a citizen-police relationship. Sure, we have the right to treat member's like shit. I could go ban people and act like I'm the boss. But would Warboards still be the same community? Each member lost changes WB.

[Neo]

This would be one of those 10% times where Black.Ice is being serious.

I agree with him on almost everything minus the Infractions. Since I usually like to use those as a PM itself, though often I'll give warnings instead of real infractions. Like, we have to send the member a message anyway, on top of the automated thing, and I usually try to explain that what they did wasn't cool and/or to just knock it off.

As for the infraction system vs banning, I agree it's a bit odd, since most people will just avoid getting infractions if they have to many.

Personally I think infractions should never expire, and only when you get banned will the expire, or possibly only half-expire or something.

I sort of prefer the idea of having the ban-point limit at 10 points, rather then 35 actually. Because it gives people less of a chance at "playing it safe" until the infractions they've got expire.

That said, I prefer the infraction system mainly because it offers a history of members actions. I think, actually, it might be a better idea if, when giving infractions, they weren't even worth points, and it was up to the moderator to ban them or not because of it.

For example, vB used to (still?) have these things called "user notes" that sort of functioned similarly -- were staff could make notes on members. Like "flamed on 8/2, trolled 3/4, etc..." but... No one ever used them because they were hidden.

The idea is that, if I go to infract someone, I can see their past behavior and whether or not they're habitual or just need a warning/reminder to knock it off.

Besides every one slips now and then.

So I dunno. Infractions would be kind of cool if they were like staff only. Whereas we can give people infractions, but it's just for our bookkeeping. I think that's probably the major issue, since people can see their own infractions/when the expire/etc... they have more of a chance to "game" the system.

As for deleting posts, I love doing this anywhere I moderate. If people insult someone, troll, or flame, even it's an awesome tl;dr post (of which I usually read the entirety of), I delete it. Deleting threads though is something I usually avoid, normally I just move it over to Hall of Shame (sub-forum of the staff forum) so it's still there for records sake.

-Neo

[KillerKow]

I'd immediately change the .org policy of no permabanning.

[Schwitzer]

I'd immediately change the .org policy of no permabanning.
Hi. You're wrong - WarBoards has an impressive list of permabans. Just because permabans aren't handed out like candy on Halloween doesn't mean they're not dished out where appropriate.

[KillerKow]

Hi. You're wrong - WarBoards has an impressive list of permabans. Just because permabans aren't handed out like candy on Halloween doesn't mean they're not dished out where appropriate.

From what I've observed and have been told, permabans only tend to be handed out to spambots and one-time advertisers and the types. I thank you for correcting me, but there are still a few users on the boards that we could easily do without.

[Black.Ice]

From what I've observed and have been told, permabans only tend to be handed out to spambots and one-time advertisers and the types. I thank you for correcting me, but there are still a few users on the boards that we could easily do without.

No, there are quite a few permabans that have been handed out to people who simply refused to change and promised to incite problems if they came back.

Xenon and Ole-The-Murder come to mind. There are quite a few others.


The staff here really believes in second chances. We've had a bunch of members who were pain in the asses when they first came, and now they're perfectly fine. The question becomes, what is a permanently bannable offense? Spamming, trolling, etc? Where is the line drawn?

The thing is, people who use forums are usually repeat users and they'll come back at one point or another. Angered posts, spamming, or other things are usually done in the heat of the moment. A temp ban solves that problem.

Also, you can't arbitrarily decide that the forum would be better without someone. It's a community and you can't go around kicking people off the island because you don't like them. Well I guess you can, but it's not the WB way.

[Faiien]

Do you permaban usernames or IP's?

[Duddits]

Lol, not that I can say I'm new to Warboards, but I can say that I'm new to this whole point system. I figured that after so many infarction of any rules, depending on the severity, a person would be banned, but I didn't know that there was an arbitrary system governing this. I personally think this is a good idea. I am, however, curious as to what that system may be.

In short, I want to know what represent what. If I spam up the member's lounge with ads, how many points does that get me? Is there some systme that you (the administraion) use? I'm just curious as to what that is?

I've never bitched about WB admin. I think you guys are great. Though it does seem to be pretty common that most of the threads I post in (or create) get locked at one point in time, who fucking cares? Post something else! Don't cry and bitch about it being closed.

I like the way you are modding now. [/end discussion]

[Black.Ice]

Do you permaban usernames or IP's?

It depends on the situation, but we ban usernames. If we find out that a user keeps coming back or is evading a ban, we'll do a IP ban. If people are banned permanently, and they come back with a second user ID and start acting nice and follow the rules; is it really necessary to ban them?

The reality is that there quite a few members on the forums who have created duplicate ID's and currently using their second ID. The staff keeps track of a few dupes.

The staff knows; we are watching you. ;)

[ZeratulStukov]

I would like to go a little off-topic here, talking about this "Dupe account" and "Perma-ban" stuff... Feel free to delete the post, if you feel it's necesary.

Okay so once it happened to me to get banned and not know for how long. So I created a new account and contacted Ktan, explaining to him that I made the account only to find out for how long I've been banned. He said seven days and then permabanned that account.

My question is: "Is it okay to make a duplicate account in a such situation, in order to contact the moderator and ask him for long will you be banned?"

[Giggilyomeromicon]

I would like to go a little off-topic here, talking about this "Dupe account" and "Perma-ban" stuff... Feel free to delete the post, if you feel it's necesary.

Okay so once it happened to me to get banned and not know for how long. So I created a new account and contacted Ktan, explaining to him that I made the account only to find out for how long I've been banned. He said seven days and then permabanned that account.

My question is: "Is it okay to make a duplicate account in a such situation, in order to contact the moderator and ask him for long will you be banned?"

Why didn't you email him or use IRC to ask? Or try logging back in, because it tells you then...

[ZeratulStukov]

1. I didn't think of emailing at that moment, sorry.
2. IRC doesn't work for me... It says something avout Java, I don't know.

[Black.Ice]

I would like to go a little off-topic here, talking about this "Dupe account" and "Perma-ban" stuff... Feel free to delete the post, if you feel it's necesary.

Okay so once it happened to me to get banned and not know for how long. So I created a new account and contacted Ktan, explaining to him that I made the account only to find out for how long I've been banned. He said seven days and then permabanned that account.

My question is: "Is it okay to make a duplicate account in a such situation, in order to contact the moderator and ask him for long will you be banned?"

Dupe accounts are generally never okay. Usually the mod should send you a PM telling you how long you've been banned for. Try contacting someone via email, IRC, etc. if you have any questions when you're banned.

Or just try not getting banned in the first place.

[Vezer]

I like the idea of infractions, I wish I had them when I was modderating the site I had created (Which I don't like to talk about), the only way I knew wheather or not to ban someone was by how much I liked them. (Not a good system at all, if I could go back in time, I would have done things diffrently)

My site was so full of spam/flaming that it was redicoulous, but it was my rl friends, so I let them get away with it, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't contribute just as much as anyone else. On a site such a WB, I would try to treat everyone as if they were just as important as everyone else. I would not take sides, I would infract both sides acordinly.

I would never infract/ban someone that I was arguing with, I would ask another mod to come in and decide the proper way to deal with the problem.

Bottem line: I would try to stay as non-biased as possible.

[FrankZ]

Alright, I'm done bullshitting now. While talking to people around the community about my recent decision to turn off my moderator stuff, and to take a break of moderating for a short time, I ended up being reminded of something Schwitzer said to me a while back.

Looked it up, but the exact quote is lost to the millennia. Bottom line was that shit sucks, but theres a reason I'm a mod. And regardless of how things get, you cant let the fucking sand monkeys on these sites get to you. Its tough, doing a thankless job, moreover, listening to people criticize everything you do while you do your thankless job.

Either way, I, like most people, adore schwitty. So I won't be telling you how I would moderate. I'll tell you how it is.

I'm going to work it like every other day. Get up, check wb first thing after my morning shower. Read the same stale question in the sc section. See some petty arguing in the ML. Deal with it as I deem necessary.

Listen to people tell you that they, in fact, werent breaking the rules because of ________ . Exchange a word or so and tell them to ask another staff member for further questions.

Log onto sc.org to find out that it is still broken. Log into Ixius, our backend control panel, to see that it is still broken, again, because there is no one around to fix it. Think about all the stuff that needs to be done, approvals for every section, keeping the other sc.org staff members in line, agreeing to ideas for new contests and promotions, suggesting a change in my approvals staff because they're woefully inadequate, look up and post whatever new SCII info I can find. Try to find time to host another seemingly successful contest until every contestant bails and tells -me- that they were too busy to even start. Fill out Monthly feedback reports for a Blizzard corp. that gives us no special access or news or info to our benefit, much less actually listening to the notices sent in the report. Posting and stickying monthly questions that blizzard cant even keep on a regular schedule.

Checking the new khanduras to see if its been fixed yet, which it, of course, has not been. Reading my tons of hatemail, and talking to one or two people that actually notices half the work that gets done. Listening to staff members who are, in fact, not above me, talk down to me as if I disobeyed them. Bothering AJ whenever he's actually online, begging for help with this or that.

Logging out, sighing, and going to my real life job, since my paycheck from .org, instead, went to new updates for WarBoards.

And thats just MORNING-moderating .org. You havent even touched my Real Life.
Welcome back to modship Proto, and this 'new era' feels promising. When we had that little chat on MSN, I always wondered why'd you step down on something like that, but now that you're back on your throne, I'd like to congratulate you and wish you the best.

Much <3 <3, Proto.

~Fz

[Ubergopher]

Dupe accounts are generally never okay. Usually the mod should send you a PM telling you how long you've been banned for. Try contacting someone via email, IRC, etc. if you have any questions when you're banned.

Or just try not getting banned in the first place.


Uh, when I was banned I wasn't able to recieve PMs or send them..

[Neo]

Yeah, we had to change it because banned accounts could still PM, but we would ban PM-Advertisers only to have them continue.

If you've been banned, feel free to contact one of the staff via IM -- I've recently updated my info for MSN/Live, Yahoo!, and AIM so I'm always around. Even leaving me a note if I'm away would be good enough.

-Neo

[SpiderEternal]

Having been a mod and admin for years...I wouldn't.

BUT, if I had to, I'd do so lightly. You can't moderate content, you can only enforce clear rules. I would moderate only when necessary; the best moderation comes from the users themselves. I would not debate my calls.

Don't argue with users, doing so will only impede your job and cause any and all of your calls to be judged constantly. If they wish to know why they've been banned, tell them in a PM IF they ask. (Assuming this is possible, I've never been banned, can't say) Hear out a user if you so desire; just be aware of the risk you take.

Bulletin boards are not a democracy; ultimately, fair or not you have to deal with a moderator's decisions. It's an internet forum; your life does not depend on it so take the time to do something else.

[Neo]

Just to inject some humour, I recently came across this image and I thought it was pretty funny.

http://kupax.com/files/3157_w3npw/rules1.jpg

I wish we could use images as reasons for deleting posts >.>;;

Anyway I usually prefer to just go with the flow. Fighting it usually accomplishes nothing. But an occasional push or redirection can help at certain times, lest we turn into /b/ ... heh.

-Neo

[Gunmonk]

Just to inject some humour, I recently came across this image and I thought it was pretty funny.

I wish we could use images as reasons for deleting posts >.>;;

Anyway I usually prefer to just go with the flow. Fighting it usually accomplishes nothing. But an occasional push or redirection can help at certain times, lest we turn into /b/ ... heh.

-Neo


If I may, I made Ktan one a while back for locking a thread... He hasn't used it yet:(

But its okay, maybe I will make one for Neo.

Also, maybe it hasn't been the just the posting, I think a majority of it is in effect, the quality of the threads. But maybe I'm just going crazy.

[BrotherGreen]

This is how I'd moderate...

http://www.bcrugbynews.com/images/U14_aug2008.jpg


Go chub Go

[FrankZ]

This is how I'd moderate...

http://www.bcrugbynews.com/images/U14_aug2008.jpg


Go chub Go
Was that supposed to be funny? If yes, I am sorry to inform you that you phailed miserably.

I didn't even get the sense, nor do I understand what moderating has to do with these two teams in an ordinary play.

~Fz

[Blackright]

Was that supposed to be funny? If yes, I am sorry to inform you that you phailed miserably.

I didn't even get the sense, nor do I understand what moderating has to do with these two teams in an ordinary play.

~Fz
Regrettably, I'd have to agree with you there. :-(

I don't see the point of BrotherGreen's post, nor do I see what the
supposed-humor says.

On-topic:

Being a veteran moderator at various online bulletins for the past four years, I'd have to express my thoughts on what ideal moderating should be.


No Bias. No moderator should take sides, especially when the discussion is between a new user and a veteran. If trolling or unnecessary flaming is what's happening, the root should be eliminated and the offender be warned and punished, without taking into consideration any level of membership (either veteran, newbie, or activist).
Punishments. I've learned from past experiences with vB forums that infractions don't usually scare nor frighten users. For some, yes, this technique works well, but it doesn't do any real harm other than display a red badge on your User CP. For this reason, I've developed my own system of punishments, and it involves infractions as a point-record system. 20 points of infraction warrants disability of viewing/posting certain fora, 30 points warrant disability of Private and Profile Messaging. 40 points and above warrant effects same as above, with the disability to post or join discussions. They are infractions, yes, but they feel like bans. That's what weighs-- what the infractions do in reality aside from serving as warnings. And I know that stacked infractions would lead to a real ban, so users should be careful by that fact taken. And yeah, the effects of the infractions above last only for a single day, but the infraction points themselves last longer. Say, a week or two. To serve as reminders.
Topic Closure / Deletion. What I hate most about some fora is that when moderators close or delete a thread, they don't leave proper legible reasons. I have encounted many reasons like ''coz I said so', 'stfu', 'no, kthx.', 'nice try, fucko.' and many other un-professional reasons. And I seriously hate them. They make the moderator sound like an ill-mannered hypocrite who feel powerful over people, and enjoys exercising the said power (showing off). It shouldn't be. Mods were put in position to moderate and discipline users, not show their petty prowesses off.
Discussion Coaching. Before instantly infracting a member or closing a thread, a mod must first coach the way the thread discussion moves. For example, if he feels that the discussion is going to climax into a flamepit, he should already warn the probable offender through either 0-point infractions or Private Messages, so as to avoid the undesirable climax. No need for public humiliation, I might add. PM themselves should suffice. If the user did not comply, then I believe that that's the right time to close the thread, delete the post, or infract the user. A mod is a mod. He should control with all possible powers the way a discussion moves. Not be passive-offensive and appear only at the end, and in turn humiliate a user. "Forgive them, they do not know what they are doing."
Hot air. In compliance with the idea of Topic Closure / Deletion, moderators should not show off their powers as if they rule and own users. They are only guides, not slavemasters. Public humiliation or insulting of other members, even if they do offenses, should be strictly prohibited. Yes, occassionally staff members can have fun, but not in an excessive way that would make members lose respect.
Respect. As common staff policies imply, moderators should not override each other, and should respect not only other staff members, but all members of the community. If a user feels that the moderator respects his opinion, his respect for the moderator moves up notches as well. Every user must be treated as equals, not underlings.
Preventive Measures. Referring to the idea of Discussion Coaching; a moderator should, and should always prevent any trolling or offense from happening. If the first post or the idea of the thread alone is not desirable, a brief explanation should be provided and thread closure should be done. Be open to messages such as 'wtf did you close me topic?', or 'wtf did i do wrong?' and reply to them as polite as possible. Do not get irritated or angry. And remember the idea of Respect.
And lastly, enjoy your work. If ever you are not enjoying your work, or feeling as if you are only doing your work because of mutual attachment or 'because it makes me embarassed not to accept the modship offer' simply step down. Work without enjoyment is work without direction. A heavy heart in one's work guarantees poor and sloppy work that results into the violation of all ideas stated above.

The ideas above are what I've always applied in my work, and I have been as successful as I could ever be. Thanks, and thanks for reading.

Expressing opinions and ideas,
~Blackright

[Neo]

First off both of you are sticks in the mud. =P

This is how I'd moderate...

http://www.bcrugbynews.com/images/U14_aug2008.jpg


Go chub Go

THATS A CRACK ISN'T IT? YOU'RE SAYING I'M FAT? YEAH WELL SCREW YOU.

Regrettably, I'd have to agree with you there. :-(

I don't see the point of BrotherGreen's post, nor do I see what the
supposed-humor says.

On-topic:

Being a veteran moderator at various online bulletins for the past four years, I'd have to express my thoughts on what ideal moderating should be.

[LIST]
No Bias. No moderator should take sides, especially when the discussion is between a new user and a veteran. If trolling or unnecessary flaming is what's happening, the root should be eliminated and the offender be warned and punished, without taking into consideration any level of membership (either veteran, newbie, or activist).
While this is perfect on paper, in execution it's not as simple. Not everyone is the same. And when two people get going, it's not fair to punish one and not the other -- but by the same token, it's also not fair that you allow newbies to antagonize you're regulars. It's the newbie members that have to get a feel for the forum and start recognizing the rules/whats ok/whats not/etc...

It would be unfair of you to punish that veteran even if the newbie antagonized them first -- or solely punish the newbie.

Besides it's impossible to be unbiased. You will always treat those you know differently then those you don't. In one instance I can issue a warning/infraction and say "knock it off" as the reason, and the member gets it. In another I'd have to explain why the member is being infracted. >.<

Punishments. I've learned from past experiences with vB forums that infractions don't usually scare nor frighten users. For some, yes, this technique works well, but it doesn't do any real harm other than display a red badge on your User CP. For this reason, I've developed my own system of punishments, and it involves infractions as a point-record system. 20 points of infraction warrants disability of viewing/posting certain fora, 30 points warrant disability of Private and Profile Messaging. 40 points and above warrant effects same as above, with the disability to post or join discussions. They are infractions, yes, but they feel like bans. That's what weighs-- what the infractions do in reality aside from serving as warnings. And I know that stacked infractions would lead to a real ban, so users should be careful by that fact taken. And yeah, the effects of the infractions above last only for a single day, but the infraction points themselves last longer. Say, a week or two. To serve as reminders.
I actually really like this idea. Is this possible with the infraction system? I mean, to automatically have it set to remove peoples access and the other things you've mentioned? Because that's really brilliant.

Topic Closure / Deletion. What I hate most about some fora is that when moderators close or delete a thread, they don't leave proper legible reasons. I have encounted many reasons like ''coz I said so', 'stfu', 'no, kthx.', 'nice try, fucko.' and many other un-professional reasons. And I seriously hate them. They make the moderator sound like an ill-mannered hypocrite who feel powerful over people, and enjoys exercising the said power (showing off). It shouldn't be. Mods were put in position to moderate and discipline users, not show their petty prowesses off.
I like to think we avoid this here on warboards for the most part. Although I will admit to closing threads without posting in them at all (necros for instance). I also rather detest that sort of behavior. When Khanduras launches I hope that we can promote moderators who wont act like jackasses.

Discussion Coaching. Before instantly infracting a member or closing a thread, a mod must first coach the way the thread discussion moves. For example, if he feels that the discussion is going to climax into a flamepit, he should already warn the probable offender through either 0-point infractions or Private Messages, so as to avoid the undesirable climax. No need for public humiliation, I might add. PM themselves should suffice. If the user did not comply, then I believe that that's the right time to close the thread, delete the post, or infract the user. A mod is a mod. He should control with all possible powers the way a discussion moves. Not be passive-offensive and appear only at the end, and in turn humiliate a user. "Forgive them, they do not know what they are doing."

This ends up as further work for a moderator though. If I see someone is antagonizing a thread further, I usually elect to remove their post (a particularly inflammatory one for instance) and give them a warning rather then a full infraction.

To coddle members is a waste of time. The truth is that a majority of them should know what is ok and what isn't -- and I dislike tip-toeing around a topic. If I see someone starting stuff, I cut it off right there. And again, not everyone is the same. Where a PM might work for one member, a public warning works better for another. It's noticing the differences in members that allow you to more effectively moderate.

Hot air. In compliance with the idea of Topic Closure / Deletion, moderators should not show off their powers as if they rule and own users. They are only guides, not slavemasters. Public humiliation or insulting of other members, even if they do offenses, should be strictly prohibited. Yes, occassionally staff members can have fun, but not in an excessive way that would make members lose respect.

Again, I disagree somewhat. While staff should never abuse their power for any reason, or humiliate a member, there are times that this isn't avoidable. For instance a member who continually calls out a Senior Moderator, or an Administrator and refuses to back down. I've seen many members change when they get blasted back.

Staff are not automatons -- they are humans just like the members. It is inevitable that friction will arise and problems will show themselves. There's a point where, you do not really need member's adulation to moderate properly, nor do you need their respect.

Respect. As common staff policies imply, moderators should not override each other, and should respect not only other staff members, but all members of the community. If a user feels that the moderator respects his opinion, his respect for the moderator moves up notches as well. Every user must be treated as equals, not underlings.

Perhaps, but I would put forward that, as I said before, respect is not necessary to being a good moderator. To coddle members, or treat an abrasive one the same as you might another who's not abrasive is folly. Some members respond to PMs, others will laugh in your face. Even if you are in the right, some members will go to hell and back denying that they did any wrong. You can respect them all you want, but gaining their respect in turn is sometimes an exercise in futility. Not every member is equal.

Preventive Measures. Referring to the idea of Discussion Coaching; a moderator should, and should always prevent any trolling or offense from happening. If the first post or the idea of the thread alone is not desirable, a brief explanation should be provided and thread closure should be done. Be open to messages such as 'wtf did you close me topic?', or 'wtf did i do wrong?' and reply to them as polite as possible. Do not get irritated or angry. And remember the idea of Respect.

This is unfair. You cannot properly respond to a member who is being irrational. If you close a thread they might open another, or they may start spamming, or go off all pissed. In these instances it's better to ignore the member's complaints and either let them know to knock it off, or to simply ban them for a couple days. While I dislike banning, it's helpful to some to cool off, especially if they are being irrational.

Some of your ideas are interesting, but you seem to be assuming the best of your member base... and that just depends on your core group. If your member base is mostly young people then sometimes "putting your foot down" works better then any amount of talking might. While I would never go off all half cocked and start banning people for disagreeing with me, there is no reason that a staff member should ever have to explain themselves to a member.

If I close a thread that is clearly out of control, then a member should go and make a new one "OMFG WHY'D YOU CLOSE IT?!" or whatever. That's why many forums have a rule that amounts to "Staff have the final say" with a procedure to go through should you think the action that was undertaken wasn't proper.

I don't really like to coddle members. I much prefer to simply moderate when necessary, but for the most part simply be a member with a colored name. I don't like to appear unapproachable or hostile -- if someone has a problem with me I'm always willing to listen. However there is a point where enough is enough.

There are some members who just won't like you, no matter how you moderate or how you act.

-Neo

[GenocideAlive]

Ha. I have to agree with Neo on the picture, cuz honestly that fat dude is doing the deed. He may have weight problems, but it ain't from sitting on his ass and eating chips. Homeboy plays ball and he looks like he's bringing it to the skinny kids. Just like Neo, fat but getting shit done. Go Neo!

As for Blackright's post, I can only say right on in so many ways. While we give mods a lot of slack to do their jobs, I think it gets excessive. And when it does, there's no precedent or system of checks and balances to make sure it's handled fairly. I can certainly agree with people that in many cases a poorly worded line to claim a thread really harms the moderators credibility. Even if the user wrote FUCK YOU I HATE YOU GURRHGHRGH, and the mod deleted his post with "stfu", since nobody else sees what he wrote, the rudeness of the reply is the only thing the readers see.

Quips, cracks, and smarmy comments can have this effect as well. If you'll note, Ktan usually dedicates a paragraph or so before locking a thread, then maybe a pun at the end. He boasts a very wide appeal and very high popularity. No coincidence, imo. Much different than a moderator locking a thread with an insult. And for as effective as insults may or may not be in controlling others' behavior, "the ends justify the means" is a poor excuse.

On the flip side, many older users don't like to be chided for ridiculous reasons, and patronizing behavior turns a lot of people off. When more "edgy" topics are not permissible or people aren't permitted disagreement, the forum becomes a fake place. Kids enjoy it because it's a childish environment, safe from difficult feelings. I think that's something we should work to avoid.

Of course, that brings up discussion coaching, which is something mods here have absolutely no concept. We have "spam crackdowns", not a "revitalization of staff participation and interest". I think a lot of the troubles we're having now is finding good moderators. Half are inactive, a quarter have bad attitudes, and the final quarter find themselves overworked.

AJ did a really good job back when he had time to do the job. Now, there's kind of a vacuum.

[Black.Ice]

This is why we periodically ask and try to improve ourselves.

We're not the best, but we're always trying to learn.

I used to always talk to people via PM and stuff, and I would like to (arrogantly) consider myself one of the nicests mods here. It's one of the things I just try doing because I've been on the other side of the spectrum when I first joined other discussion forums. When I became mod here, I figured I'd try to be nice and helpful whenever I can, and it's something that I strive for.

Anyways, I'll take your guys' advice and try improving. Thanks again.

[GenocideAlive]

These types of examples are teaching your readers, whether you choose to accept your position or not. After two pages of you guys railing about trolling, spamming, and the like, you've managed to troll and spam in the same post in response to a serious reply. If you would honestly like to have a discussion about why I left, Neo, I'm all for it. I just don't think that this thread is the time or place. Feel free to press the issue via mocking me or further trolling, though.

[Neo]

These types of examples are teaching your readers, whether you choose to accept your position or not. After two pages of you guys railing about trolling, spamming, and the like, you've managed to troll and spam in the same post in response to a serious reply. If you would honestly like to have a discussion about why I left, Neo, I'm all for it. I just don't think that this thread is the time or place. Feel free to press the issue via mocking me or further trolling, though.

I wasn't actually being serious. Just trying to inject some humor into the thread, sorry :\

Thanks everyone, it's awesome to get feedback from all of you. Please keep posting, it's really interesting to get different points of view. After all just because you do something one way doesn't mean it's the only way... or the best. :)

-Neo

[Blackright]

Again, I was just showing the picture of an ideal moderator (though honestly, I wasn't able to be perfect on all ideas as well, but I was swell aside from that :-P).

And yeah, I understand your points Neo. I was just voicing out what I think ideally a role moderator should be.

Perhaps we can't be perfect, but in some way we can avoid being too imperfect. Take for example the facts that we hate people who are lousy jackasses not agreeing with what the moderator has to say, yes we can't avoid humiliating them in public or 'shutting their trap' per se, but we can ideally reduce that kind of behavior. There's always a way, and yes, we can try.

And for all ideas above, of course there are always exceptions. Take for example the idea of being unbiased in a member's level/standing, of course you don't take into consideration his level, you always have to kill the opposer no matter what. Newbie or oldie, he who started it must be penalized or shut for a while. And he who jumped into the bait should be whipped the same.

Preventive measures aren't unfair, or at least not in the way you seem to be thinking of it. What I was pointing out was to kill the 'sore root'/'fungi' as they say, as to disallow the whole body to tremble itch and ache. But then again, it isn't all that practical in our world, so we all have our choices.

Then again, I'm just voicing out my ideas. Not necessarily 'striking the whip' and being uber-hot aired and stuff.

And Neo, your points were taken and remembered. :) Thanks.

~Blackright

[DoctorZettabyte]

I'd like to read that book, if it even exists.

Try Googling [BS]BaxButton. There aren't even results in German.
Link or fail. GET.

The ideas are good, especially the bit on bias, which I've heard discussed here and there, but if you're citing someone, at least know their name and be sure it was their PDF. ;-)

-DocZetta

[Blackright]

I'd like to read that book, if it even exists.

Try Googling [BS]BaxButton. There aren't even results in German.
Link or fail. GET.

The ideas are good, especially the bit on bias, which I've heard discussed here and there, but if you're citing someone, at least know their name and be sure it was their PDF. ;-)

-DocZetta
The book was written by a member of German forum named [BS]BaxButton. A colleague of mine happened to be a member of the said forum, and he was able to grab and copy and share to me. I didn't directly obtain the manual from the [BS]BB.

Anyway, when I get back to Manila and be able to use my ol' PC again (I'm on my brother's pc right now), I'll upload the .pdf to RapidShare or Kupax and send you the link.

Or, I'll see if I can find a link to the .pdf on Google or some udg'd sites, and I'll send it to you. (Which I highly doubt, since the author and the book itself isn't that popular, and said forum isn't even high-trafficked).

~Blackright

[Protosschick99]

I've been kinda gone, so I don't know what all the drama is about. But if we are refering to spam--Clean it up. I'm the admin of my own forums for a few members from here and I haven't been there lately due to all my moving around so it's kinda....DEAD, lolz XD

But anyway, we had a situation a while back where we had several instances of ppl trying to start drama and from what I remember--According to the rules they received bans. [It was SERIOUS, not some off the wall spam humour]

If someone is continually breaking the rules in my eyes and they are doing it on purpose just to get back at the mods and admins, I say suspend him/her--Then should they keep on, increase that suspension.

I'm not one for perma-ban's unless this person is purposely causing division and strife and is enjoying stepping all over the ppl who have built this community.

P.S. I'm not really bugged at the staff. I think they are doing fine :) I only get bugged when I receive infractions--I've recieved 2 so far in all my years here :P

[Neo]

we wuv you gracie <3

srsly though, being mad at you is akin to clubbing a baby seal.

-Neo

[Ktan]

What, great fun?

=p

[Protosschick99]

we wuv you gracie <3

srsly though, being mad at you is akin to clubbing a baby seal.

-Neo

Awww you make me feel so loved and appreciated :D

@ Ktan: *GASP* That's terrible! Baby seals should not be clubbed! :O

I'm telling Seal on you XD

[anderoo]

He didn't mean it

[Protogod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5IAaA_rw5I

Completes this subtopic, imo.

[Protosschick99]

:( I couldn't even finish watching that....Watching those barbarians club those precious seals makes me wanna cry :(

They need to ban that crap! One day a freak'n elephant seal is gonna put them in their place >.<

[TheDriver]

I've been kinda gone, so I don't know what all the drama is about. But if we are refering to spam--Clean it up. I'm the admin of my own forums for a few members from here and I haven't been there lately due to all my moving around so it's kinda....DEAD, lolz XD

But anyway, we had a situation a while back where we had several instances of ppl trying to start drama and from what I remember--According to the rules they received bans. [It was SERIOUS, not some off the wall spam humour]

If someone is continually breaking the rules in my eyes and they are doing it on purpose just to get back at the mods and admins, I say suspend him/her--Then should they keep on, increase that suspension.

I'm not one for perma-ban's unless this person is purposely causing division and strife and is enjoying stepping all over the ppl who have built this community.

P.S. I'm not really bugged at the staff. I think they are doing fine :) I only get bugged when I receive infractions--I've recieved 2 so far in all my years here :P

As posted above being made at you is redundant. We all know how it ends.


And on the topic of how i would moderate ; I don't think I'd make that bad of a candidate. I have 1 Infraction to my name.

[Graeme]

My rule of thumb whenever moderating was:
As a moderator, you're still a member first and foremost, but you have the added distinction that you're responsible for bringing life into your forums/subforums. Your primary task should always be to contribute and to add to the community through whatever way possible - events, games, competitions, etc. This is what brings life into the forum and allows the forum to grow.

This is really the only thing that will bring you respect from the people in the community, and once you have that, moderating is as simple as saying, "Look, you're being an idiot. Stop."

Since I basically only show up here between terms, I don't really have a right to say whether the mods have been doing this or not. Just thought I'd throw out my 2 cents.

[Neo]

My rule of thumb whenever moderating was:
As a moderator, you're still a member first and foremost, but you have the added distinction that you're responsible for bringing life into your forums/subforums. Your primary task should always be to contribute and to add to the community through whatever way possible - events, games, competitions, etc. This is what brings life into the forum and allows the forum to grow.

This is really the only thing that will bring you respect from the people in the community, and once you have that, moderating is as simple as saying, "Look, you're being an idiot. Stop."

Since I basically only show up here between terms, I don't really have a right to say whether the mods have been doing this or not. Just thought I'd throw out my 2 cents.

Come back pineapple. We need you.

And I miss innkeeper. Neobot's an ass.

Wish it was always that easy when people are acting up.

-Neo

[Basan]

Don't let it get personal. The internet is not serious business, so don't take it that way. However, the rules should be followed, they're there for a reason after all. Flaming shouldn't earn a ban, just a thread/lock delete and a P(rivate) M(essage) to the member in question with the reason, and an explanation for any disciplinary action taken. (AKA Ban)

That's how I did it when was in staff. Warnings serve as PM's and many times I've handed a few to newcomers telling them why their post was edited, deleted or the topic locked. Many of such instances I've even linked to the FAQ (http://www.warboards.org/faq.php?) or to that section's particular rules as an alternative if it was the case applied.
For those that weren't WB's rookies any more and full well knew that they broke the rules I tossed a very well detailed explanation in the infraction being sent their way. Only in rare cases (repeated offenders or stubborn users) I'd lose the caring detail and simply told them that that full well knew why they were being reprimended upon (sometimes with links to the specific rule or rules they shat on).

Although in general I abided by the system there were some cases in which I felt that the staff was being test driven and the system circumvented. In such instances, I dealt custom infractions just to keep some of those members on their toes about 'joking' around the rules as they tried to pull.

In overall, I don't think that anyone has held me as a bad, meanie n' unreachable moderator during my short stay with those chores at hand, apart my regular 'duties' as a member. And trust me that I didn't kept a grudge against anyone that nagged me beyond reason while doing that job. *Wink, major hint*

...
Besides if bans become as common as infractions, don't we run into the same issue that infractions aren't worth it? And what happens when people start making duplicate accounts to get around bans? Extra work = no thanks.

*Meh* You full well know that we had ways to know when a dupe was around, even apart the similar behavioural traits that showed up in flash. Troublesome, yes. But not impossible as you full well know that we already handled a 'few' of those. ;)

I'd moderate exactly like Neo, Ktan and B.I. <3

Don't fix what's not broken. I quite like our staff.

And what was I, chop liver? :rolleyes: *Wink, wink*

Moderation is a lot of work. No doubt.
But I think everyone has the wrong idea. Mods deal out punishment to those who break the rules, but they are also serve as an example to other, newer members of the site. I really love the mods we have because they do their job so damn well.
Anyway, how would I do it? If someone broke the rules I would take the appropriate action (deleting, editing, etc.) and then send them a message informing them that they did break the rules and not to do it again. If I catch them breaking the rules again I would just give them an infraction after taking the appropriate action - and if necessary, a ban. I say this because WBs is the forum that taught me a lot about debating, posting, and many other things related to forums - and I have my share of infractions for it.
Of course, I don't really want to be a mod, I've just recently opened my eyes to what a Warboardian should be and I know I still have much to learn before I would be ready to be a mod.

Spoken as true WB'dian. :tup: Nobody learns self taught, but the staff has always believe in the chance for improvement and amendment or at least to keep it in the level of a minimal social interaction without too much fusses/skirmishes.

...
Okay, it's a weird rule. But since it's a rule, it can't be broken. However, yesterday (the message date is 08-08-2008), a guy named Bad, revived seven threads in the Starcraft 2 debriefing room. Seven threads in which the last post before Bad's was either from 2004 or 2005.
Seven different thread necromancies, each being a one-liner message, and upon looking at the content of the post, I believe it is not only thread revival but also spam.

...

The rules are there to serve as guidelines. I saw threads revived with pretty darn good points and leading to a striving conversation way beyond the initial time when it was made. It can happen, but usually it's not probable.
In that case however, I'd simply report the issue if I were you and simply move on (as I did, in fact :P). What you didn't noticed is that it was a new user and its post count only lead to 10 posts, the minimum required to play in the WB's Arcade. Apart from that 'tiny' detail it should be given a chance to improve as you were given many times in the past. Imagine if we'd ban you for every offence you made. You wouldn't be here and for a long time now. But no, those infractions are also chances for you to take heed and try to show off the best of you when mingling on line (as you are now seeming to do). :)
But when those chances are proven to be void then the staff may not have any other option than to act more harshly and resort to permanent bans.

I would like to go a little off-topic here, talking about this "Dupe account" and "Perma-ban" stuff... Feel free to delete the post, if you feel it's necesary.

Okay so once it happened to me to get banned and not know for how long. So I created a new account and contacted Ktan, explaining to him that I made the account only to find out for how long I've been banned. He said seven days and then permabanned that account.

My question is: "Is it okay to make a duplicate account in a such situation, in order to contact the moderator and ask him for long will you be banned?"


That was mainly your fault. Since you had a quite 'humorous' episode in which after mounting a bunch of infractions that obviously resulted in a ban you constantly kept pushing the said mod' with seriously lacking taste PM's thus resulting in the said mod' to lock you from even sending PM's. A thing that if you kept close attention, he even described the amount of time that you initially had and even the one raising to that bar due to your (at the time) terribly childish behaviour.

[Neo]

Basan we need to clone you, so we can let them moderate the boards while we go on vacation.

You were seriously the most friendly and infinitely patient mod I've ever seen. It was almost annoying at times, but you were awesome.

-Neo

[Basan]

Basan we need to clone you, so we can let them moderate the boards while we go on vacation.

Speaking of which, mine are closing in. Just one more week to go! :)
And also regarding the Dolly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_%28sheep%29) matter, don't even try it. The originality gene I carry broke off after the initial mold. :D

You were seriously the most friendly and infinitely patient mod I've ever seen. It was almost annoying at times, but you were awesome.

Shhh, keep a hush hush lid about it. :rolleyes: Being pleasantly annoying was my trump card and trademark. :P To be honest I found that that way no one could seriously bitch about my performance as a mod' (as I know that some of the hard heads around here would like to cruise the "unfair n' power abuse" paths) and then they'd relinquish upon the stubborn attitude as soon as they saw that my opinions were firm and solidly based upon WB's rules, general facts or even unwritten courtesy rules of forum debating. Summing, that was my approach. Well, it was that or my "or else" alternative, which usually did end having some pretty darn funny results (rarely for the user in question, I might add ). :smirk:

[TheBB]

Quite a lot of complaining about rules / generally being dissatisfied with the bureucracy / there even BEING a bureaucracy here. It's a f***ing FORUM. Not even a BIG one at that.

Moderation should only boil down to some common sense. Hopefully it is indeed common.

[Protogod]

Not even a BIG one at that.

Ok, there, godzilla.

[Dayoh]

Involved in getting the community together (which is already done here) creating a fun place too visit each time your on the net.

With the actual Moderation of the forum, IMO bans are really only for repeated offences or if they do something really bad. simply deleting a post and sending them a pm can fix most things.

I dont think any of us can really suggest anything that isnt already being done :P

[gamer102]

I'm a moderator of another forum, and I'd say you guys are moderating just fine. However, when I think that something is amiss, sure, I'll have a minor complaint.

10/10 so far guys.

[Protosschick99]

I like Basan's idea.

You want to help them more than anything to stay, so giving them links to the rules/FAQ/etc. is ideal :)

[Sikawtic]

Ktan is a fascist pig.

[Basan]

Ktan is a fascist pig.

And I was a communist bitch. What's the difference? :rolleyes:

[Sikawtic]

Dogs have more fur and pigs are pink.

[QuothTheRaven]

I would ban everybody. I hope you all die in a fire.

But seriously? I've been to 2kinds forums and back again, 2kinds forums NEVER if ever have had any flamers or excessive spam. I've trying to figure out where warboards logic and rule enforcement standards gap is. It has little to do with the rules but more with the respect and admiration of staff or authority members. Call me an ass kisser but AJ is freggin awesome and I have great respect for somebody who manages and improves warboards so much. I also have great respect for Tom Fischbach and does everybody in the forums, merely his presence commands respect from the members. As a result people obey the rules and respect the rules layed down by him.

How you achieve the same level of respect on warboards? My suggestion to appoint a popular figure in warboards that will take the job seriously and still have fun with us. I don't know for sure and this is just random speculation of me not getting any sleep and having to get up in a few hours. I rant when I'm tired.

"Well if twokinds is so freggin wonderful why are you here? Stop promoting that website" Please read the first sentence. Die in a fire, slowly. I support warboards and attempt to merge succeeding concepts from one forum to another.

[Neo]

zomg are you a furry?

Yeah AJ is pretty awesome since he actually takes the time to "mingle" as it were, as well as all takes the time to respond to people who contact him if it's a serious enough issue.

It's always been rather cool, imo. Not many others in his position (eg: leading a fansite network) are as sociable. Usually they tend to insulate themselves with their direct minions and then just sort of stay this mythological figure 'up there somewhere' or something.

-Neo

[QuothTheRaven]

zomg are you a furry?
-Neo
I thought was pretty obvious with the links in my signature to begin with. Mock me and I'll kill you in your sleep.

[Neo]

I thought was pretty obvious with the links in my signature to begin with. Mock me and I'll kill you in your sleep.

Well originally you had Raven-themed sig/avatar, and I rarely pay attention to sig links -- Personally I don't like watching videos all that much so those type of links get even more ignored :3

Anyway I'd like to thank all of you for chiming in, I think I'll unstick this and let it fade off :)

-Neo

[GenocideAlive]

I thought was pretty obvious with the links in my signature to begin with. Mock me and I'll kill you in your sleep.
I'm scared. Not really of the "I'll kill you in your sleep" bit, but more for the "I'm a furry" bit. Creepy. Anyway, it's worth noting that there may be no flaming in the 2kinds forum because moderators make questionable posts disappear in the night. It's always nice to have a few edgy posts here and there, it keeps moderating transparent.

[QuothTheRaven]

Flaming is literally non-existent, gay rights threads and religion vs atheism threads draw that out. Otherwise flame never touches any of the other threads, considering there is only 1-2 active mods at any time and 12-30 members on at the same time. I posted the same corrupt a wish thread on 2kinds and it hit 50 pages in under 6 days.

Anyways I know what your thinking and were not all like that, the creepy furrys are the one obsessing with weird porn. Furrys remind me of werewolves, which I have formed a admiration for from all the wicked werewolf mods from the elderscrolls series. Hahahaha! Stupid guard! Try and stop me while I tear your arms and legs off and beat you with them!

As a mod I would give me an infraction for me going on a random tangent. Just clarifying a few things.

[Neo]

Yeah, but we aren't that strict about things, pretty laid back. I think that's a positive myself.

And as long as you don't go /posting/ the crazy furry pr0ns I don't care if you claim to transform into a werewolf and feast off the local sheep.

-Neo

[Gunmonk]

Apologies, but if I laugh at Quoth will I get an infraction? I mean... shit... thats a fucked up fetish... Its one thing to like japanese transvestite midget bondage lesbian heterosexual pron, but furry? eww....


http://www.rubyscream.com/images/darth-vader-fetish.jpg

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