Large Hadron Collider

[Giggilyomeromicon]

Since it's about to end the world in a few minutes, how are you all enjoying your last moments alive? I myself am listening to music and idling in IRC. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get another level in IdleRPG before the world devides by zero. And I just lost the game one last, sweet time. Goodbye, Warboards. Goodbye, world.

FOR SCIENCE!

[Faiien]

Well at least it'll be fast and painless...hopefully. Science is the future.

[3Vee]

I'm going out on a limb here and saying the world won't end. If it does, it won't matter, because...

...it will have ended.

Do not go gentle into that good night. Or something. God bless, regardless.

(Also - I lost the game. Meh.)

[PrestonBurke]

And I just lost the game one last, sweet time.

(Also - I lost the game. Meh.)

I lost.

[Skullflower]

I thought they were testing it the 9th..

[Giggilyomeromicon]

Well at least it'll be fast and painless...hopefully. Science is the future.

Actually being sucked into a black hole, especially a series of black holes, would be one of the most unimaginably painful things ever.

[kongurous]

I'm not dead yet. If we're not gone in the next... hour or so, I think we're safe.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

http://kupax.com/files/3097_galkz/LHC.jpg

artist's rendition of the LHC activating

[Magmaniac]

ALCOHOL COMMENSE!
time

[DarkMirror]

I have a picture relevant to this thread.
Would anyone like to see it before its too late?

[HazzaDaShiz]

Hahaha, looks like it's time to organise that hardcore orgy/strip poker game I've been meaning to have for ages.
Serious.

[Darmago]

Real tests don't begin on the LHC until october 21st so we're probably safe until then.

see http://en.rian.ru/world/20080805/115771418.html

[Magmaniac]

we ain';t dead?

IO'm still fonna keep drinking anyawyas

[kongurous]

NSFW


The possible end of the world is not a valid reason to break the rules of the forum.

[HazzaDaShiz]

The possible end of the world is not a valid reason to break the rules of the forum.

No, but it's a damn good excuse.

[Protoss_Honor]

So, no worlds end? That's good. I have time to complete a few tasks before I die. hopefully. <_<

[InfinityComplex]

Lame, I wanted the end of the world. Now my insanity is in vain. Oh well, at least we have the Russian(?) LHC.

[VigilanteV]

I still looted 45 stores. I was using stuff I stoled from the other stores to break into the next store. IT WAS FUCKING EPIC!!!!

Then I went and made a house from all the stuff I stole. You haven't live until you've live in a house made from TVs speakers, computers, and other random crap.

Now at least I can enjoy this stuff longer.

[SilverCrusader]

Lame, I wanted the end of the world. Now my insanity is in vain. Oh well, at least we have the Russian(?) LHC.
Every time they boot the thing up it will have the chance of happening.

[raidmax]

Today was just the warmup for it, it goes live on September 10th. So, we have about another month :P At least, according to CERN's website.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_yPDaNmsT86I/SCyVphuzp9I/AAAAAAAAADk/4gXsek5S1UE/s1600-h/1210873628941.jpg

[SHISHKABOB]

CERN reminds me of GEHIRN which turned into NERV which tried to turn everyone into tang. These people are trying to initiate Third/Second ( >.> ) Impact and turn us into tang as well. No division by zero or miniature black holes. More like mind fuck and congratulations. Beware blue haired Japanese girls in school uniforms, don't let them touch you. D:

[Black.Ice]

I posted this originally here (http://www.warboards.org/showpost.php?p=625145&postcount=60) in the [B]Appreciate AJ Thread[/B ]a few days ago, but I'll repost it here:

(Source: Daily Mail)
August 4, 2008 -- SWITZERLAND --

In an unexpected turn of events, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), a large particle collider in the Franco-Swiss border has created a black hole. But the blackhole was not created directly by the collider.

Continued after the jump...

While the construction of the LHC had was lauded by many of the world's renowned particle physicists, such as Tu Tie Toffashrt and Ramuragavarapesh Pinnamunaniachi, many other scientists have fiercely opposed the construction and operation of the LHC.

They claim that unknown catastrophic events may occur as a result of the operation, such as a blackhole which may swallow the earth. Scientists who are funding the LHC dismissed these claims a silly, as the energy required to create a black hole is simply not possible.

Pinnamunaaniachi stated, "It is simply not possible. Even if the entire mass of the Universe was converted into pure energy and fed into the LHC via a series of tubes it would not have enough energy to create a black hole,"

Others have claimed that it is indeed possible. Physicist Thawarl Disendeng even created a visual basic GUI that showed how the LHC could, in fact, create a black hole and how it could even rip the space-time continuum creating a portal to an alternate dimension. His theory was widely dismissed at a conference. Since then, Professor Disendeng, has been seen at various hardware stores stocking up on red crowbars.

Earlier this afternoon, the LHC went into operation. As expected no blackholes were created, however, a blackhole did form near Chicago, IL.

The LHC created unknown particles which were then immediately attracted the largest mass in the solar system -- something known as AJ's Ego. AJ's Ego, is a natural occurring phenomenon, that is rumored to have started approximately twenty years ago. It was small at first, but the size increased steadily.

AJ's Ego resided in a plane of existence that was unknown to mankind. The particles created by the LHC traveled into this alternate dimension and collided with AJ's Ego. Acting as a catalyst, these particles caused the two dimensions to merge. The particles created a cascade effect. The physicists at LHC attempted to stop this by reversing the polarity, however, it was too late.

AJ's Ego, which was so massive, collapsed onto itself forming a blackhole. As we speak, the world as we know it is being pulled into this blackhole. Is this the end of Humanity?

Only time will tell.

[SolidSamurai]

I still looted 45 stores. I was using stuff I stoled from the other stores to break into the next store. IT WAS FUCKING EPIC!!!!

Then I went and made a house from all the stuff I stole. You haven't live until you've live in a house made from TVs speakers, computers, and other random crap.

Now at least I can enjoy this stuff longer.

Now that you're still alive, you still have time to do your time in jail! :D

[Darmago]

Again I'd like to state there will be no actual tests until October 21st, Until then its not really doing anything. Sure they might be throwing a whole bunch of protons around at relatively close to the speed of light, but its not really a large Hadron Collider until it starts colliding things I.E. October 21st, That is when you should start end of the world preparations(reference the end of the world scenarios for your religion of choice)

Reference wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LHC

[Gunmonk]

fuuuuuucccccckkkkkk and all this time I wanted to meet the flying spaghetti monster...

[TheBB]

Physicist Thawarl Disendeng even created a visual basic GUI that showed how

Light, have mercy on us. I'm torn between being relieved that the foremost defender of utter crap uses VB, thus won't have to be taken seriously, and being distressed that there are physicists who actually think VB is good for anything.

[IrishDutchman]

As a matter of interest, BB, do you understand how the LHC works? You strike me as that kinda guy.
I don't really see the connection between smashing protons at the speed of light and dividing by zero. :(

[Ktan]

My undersatanding is that if they created a black hole, it would be so small as to evaporate via Hawking radiation ridiculously quickly anyway. Rate of decay of a black hole is inversely proportional to the actual size, so the smaller it is, the faster it decays. Any black hole created in the LHC would have a miniscule mass, and so would not last long at all.

In one instance, scientists have been looking at using minature black holes as super-processors. Of course, this depends on whether the black hole would actually process this information or simply 'destroy' it, to all intents and useful purposes.

[MatGeo]

My undersatanding is that if they created a black hole, it would be so small as to evaporate via Hawking radiation ridiculously quickly anyway. Rate of decay of a black hole is inversely proportional to the actual size, so the smaller it is, the faster it decays. Any black hole created in the LHC would have a miniscule mass, and so would not last long at all.

In one instance, scientists have been looking at using minature black holes as super-processors. Of course, this depends on whether the black hole would actually process this information or simply 'destroy' it, to all intents and useful purposes.

Pretty much.

I somehow doubt the LHC can destroy the world but eh, I guess only time will tell.

[Darmago]

As a matter of interest, BB, do you understand how the LHC works? You strike me as that kinda guy.
I don't really see the connection between smashing protons at the speed of light and dividing by zero. :(

Mostly because our current standard model for quantum mechanics doesn't really hold up under energies greater than 7TeV which the LHC gets above.

[Protogod]

My undersatanding is that if they created a black hole, it would be so small as to evaporate via Hawking radiation ridiculously quickly anyway. Rate of decay of a black hole is inversely proportional to the actual size, so the smaller it is, the faster it decays. Any black hole created in the LHC would have a miniscule mass, and so would not last long at all.


Bingo. Hawking radiation makes the danger from any micro black holes in the LHC negligible. The scientiests who made and funded, and worked on this would be the ones to know how dangerous this is. I trust thier judgement, and not some crackpot theories about the end of time from a microblack hole

[Magmaniac]

I realize this is a little bit of necromancy, but seeing as today the LHC is getting fired up for realz, I think it's justified.

The news media has been whipping up a frenzy about this, and people around the world are reacting.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26439957/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26562876/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26641652/

[InfinityComplex]

Excellent.

Let's not ruin the fun and let humanity die, to the chaos that we created through this faux epidemic.

[kongurous]

FFS people, particles are just running through the full circuit. Collisions don't start until October 21st.

[WhatIsStarcraft]

Well, before I die October 21st, I will eat spaghetti with mushrooms and parmesan as the warm up for the big meal, which comprises of lamb from the mountain, golden brown potatoes and a big bowl of salad. It will be finished by the desert, a desert of brownies, made by brownies for brownies like me to eat :)

[SilverCrusader]

We're not going to die.
That has been dismissed time and time again.
It has a 10^(-25)% chance of making a MINI black hole, and there is a 10^(-25)% chance that the black hole will even be stable. This isn't an exaggeration.
EVEN if there is a black hole the thing would take thousands of years to suck up the earth. IT IS MINI.

Also, some interesting facts about the LHC and its purpose:
- Over 10 billion dollars have been spent on the project.
- The main purpose of the LHC is to find the Higgs boson, a particle physicists have coined the "God particle".
- The Higgs boson is what physicists believe is what gives matter mass.
- Protons are accelerated around a 17 mile track near Geneva to 99.9999991% of the speed of light.
- They are propelled by 1400 magnet sections, each of which weighing 10 tons.
- These magnets have a combined magnetic field strength 200,000 times that of the Earth's magnetic field.
- Liquid helium cools the track and keeps it at 1.9 degrees above absolute zero.

[LDawgg]

Is it possible for a atomic explosion to happen? I know thier not shooting atoms 'round, but could a proton split and cause like a protonic explosion or something? If this is all bogus and not even feasable, that's probably 'cause I have no idea what I'm talking about,

[NoobOfLore]

somewhat related comic...
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/turn-on.png
:D
But yes, The chances of making a black hole are so incredibly tiny, that we really have nothing to fear. However, if the strings involved in the proton vibrations happen to interact and make a chain of infinite quantum reformations, we will, indeed, all die.

*Side question* did you guys know there are actually 10 spacial dimensions?

edit:@dawg, keep in mind that protons need a chain reaction to cause a nuke, and there merely isn't enough unstable matter in close proximity to the actual collision to cause a nuke. So no, there will be no protonic explosion. Only regular old mini-black holes with an absurdly small chance of not evaporating.

[Darmago]

*Side question* did you guys know there are actually 10 spacial dimensions?



For string theory to work there need to be 11 dimensions...

So one of your two statements(string theory and 10 dimensions) is false, pick one.

[SilverCrusader]

So one of your two statements(string theory and 10 dimensions) is false, pick one.
Slow down, he said spacial, you have to recall the fourth dimension is time. Also, It is believed that these extra dimensions operate on a scale way too small to affect us.

[NoobOfLore]

Thanks silver.
Anyway, yes, these extra dimensions are tiny. So you move through and around them without even knowing.
To make a particular point, imagine you can only see/move in two dimension. So your exact location can be accurately described using only two coordinates. Simply planar life. But some crazy(and flat) scientist claims that there are actually more ways to move than Back-Forth/Left-Right. And so now beings can move through the same coordinates without actually colliding, because they can utilize this extra dimension to add another coordinate to their location.
Now simply move that example one dimension set, and you can faintly visualize how that works, even if only slightly. If you were small enough(approx. planck size), then you could move through something in the three known spacial dimensions because you have simply changed your fourth coordinate(assuming that these 7 extra dimensions displace time, the time will be the 11th, and the 4th is still a spacial dimension).

I think I'm done flaunting my self-overestimated brain power now.

[SilverCrusader]

Keep in mind that the 11th dimension is time, and I said there are 10 spacial dimensions in the most integrated form of string theory.
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. The eleventh dimension in time :P.

[Darmago]

I'll just leave this here.

http://revver.com/video/99898/imagining-the-tenth-dimension/

however, the math of string theory only BEGINS to start working out in 11 dimensions.

If you really want a fun theory, stick with the TOJAGDE, which uses the E8 lie series super symmetry as its base
(theory of just about god damned everything)

please note that this video came out before TOJAGDE

[Hasharin]

first of all, DAMMIT I LOST THE GAME!

Now back on track. I did some research, and the black hole created is a type of superdense particle called a "miniature black hole" and not is there only an amazingly tiny chance of it happening, but also it will collapse upon itself within a few billionths (or something of the sort) of a second. Therefore, I think it's safe to say the world won't end due to the particle accelerator anytime soon.

[Faiien]

This is so Epic. I had forgotten they were firing off today and when I came on the Google page and found out I felt my heart leap out of my chest. This is truly a giant step in modern science. I can't wait for the collision in October!

[NoobOfLore]

Same here. I hope we can learn some great stuff from this.
Anyone know exactly what they do when they smash these particles together? What's the purpose? What are the trying to get? What information are they reading?

[Magmaniac]

They are trying to recreate effects that happened before planck time after the big bang occurred. They want to see if the collision of particles under the certain circumstances they are doing will create what's known as a Higgs Boson, if one is created it gives lots of support to String Theory and a better understanding about the number of dimensions that there are in our universe.

[Protosschick99]

October 21st huh? Well thank God Stephen and I are eloping XD

I don't want to die a virgin!!!!!!!!!!

lolz :P

Honestly I really don't think the earth will be destroyed. But isn't that crazy...? We've created something that is being speculated that--If you turn it ON, it'll destroy the world.....Science has come VERY far my friends :P

[singo]

What's the purpose?

To see what happens. What more purpose do you need?

And since there is no such thing as bad publicity, it wouldn't surprise me if the rumour about the "end of the world" business was started by someone at CERN to raise interest in the project.

[Modred]

But isn't that crazy...? We've created something that is being speculated that--If you turn it ON, it'll destroy the world.....Science has come VERY far my friends :P

We've had this power to (maybe) destroy the world for over half a century. It's called a nuclear bomb.

[DoctorZettabyte]

You'd need a lot of those in just the right places.

But if we're talking about glassing the surface, yeah, that's fine. :rolleyes:

-DocZetta

[NoobOfLore]

What I'm asking is how flinging particles at each other at supersonic speeds helps to discover a new type of string vibrational pattern.

[SilverCrusader]

What I'm asking is how flinging particles at each other at supersonic speeds helps to discover a new type of string vibrational pattern.
Uhh supersonic? Supersonic speed is nothing. We're flinging them at near light speed. You realize how fast that is and how much force that is right?
Well we fling them into each other, and when we do, the force of the impact causes the protons to break apart into the particle components that build them, from there we have ways to detect those particles - including the higgs boson.

[DarkMirror]

Actually...

I have stunning proof that this will, eventually, lead to the end of the world. It is impossible to ignore the signifigance of this evidence, as it is truely earthshattering.

Are you ready?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Freeman.jpg

Everyone knows what happened when Gordon messed around with particle beams.

[singo]

More to the point, my team just came second in a pub quiz using the team name "Large Hardon Collider".

[SilverCrusader]

Actually...

I have stunning proof that this will, eventually, lead to the end of the world. It is impossible to ignore the signifigance of this evidence, as it is truely earthshattering.

Are you ready?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Freeman.jpg

Everyone knows what happened when Gordon messed around with particle beams.

No, Gordon Freeman will stop the catastrophe from occurring.

[DarkMirror]

Err... no? Didn't he make it worse, after setting it off in the first place?

[Protosschick99]

We've had this power to (maybe) destroy the world for over half a century. It's called a nuclear bomb.

I know about the nuclear bomb--All we do is drop it on someone--However many times it takes to blow up the earth--But what I mean is--All you gotta do is turn this thing ON. With the bomb you gotta set it up, load it up, fly to wherever you're gonna drop it and deploy it. Or if it's stationary, you detonate it with what you do it with....Okay I'm probably not making any sense.....But whatever :P

[Skullflower]

I know about the nuclear bomb--All we do is drop it on someone--However many times it takes to blow up the earth--But what I mean is--All you gotta do is turn this thing ON. With the bomb you gotta set it up, load it up, fly to wherever you're gonna drop it and deploy it. Or if it's stationary, you detonate it with what you do it with....Okay I'm probably not making any sense.....But whatever :P

Or you can just program coordinates into it...

[masterofhobbiton]

I think that this is actually much better than a lot of other things we've created. If you set aside the fact that I never thought it could destroy the world, I would much rather die at the hands of a sudden creation of a black hole or whatever than through slow overexposure to UV radiation due to ozone depletion. And we started doing that without even turning anything on, flipping switches or anything. And it just gets worse and worse.... So many things are much worse than a quick death. And this way it'd be for science, not for air conditioning.

[3Vee]

I don't think that "for science" counts for much if the scientists are not there to examine it.

On the other hand, maybe there's some alien species out there observing and wishing they had the balls to have done it themselves - then at least they find out if it's a really bad idea.

[NoobOfLore]

Excellent idea, 3Vee, but we all know we're not going to die for real.

And the whole "We only have to turn it on" thing isn't exactly correct. I am under the impression that the hadron collider takes as much, if not more, supplies to create, and is extraordinarily fragile. My point is that the Hadron Collider is not just something you "turn on." It takes hours of prep and extremely close attention to detail when running. The only real possibility of increased danger is that the Collider can be used more than once.
As well, simply because we're contemplating the potential destruction of the planet doesn't mean that it's more dangerous/likely than an asteroid hitting us. The chances of that are very small.

[GrassDragon]

I know about the nuclear bomb--All we do is drop it on someone--However many times it takes to blow up the earth--But what I mean is--All you gotta do is turn this thing ON. With the bomb you gotta set it up, load it up, fly to wherever you're gonna drop it and deploy it. Or if it's stationary, you detonate it with what you do it with....Okay I'm probably not making any sense.....But whatever :P

You act as if turning on the largest particle accelerator ever created is as simple as flipping a switch. There's a lot involved in the process of even making the thing run, let alone collecting and interpreting data.

All this talk of black holes completely misses the mark. Tiny black holes, too small to interact with anything, come in contact with the Earth all the time. Anything created by the LHC would be too small, and likely would evaporate too quickly, to do any real damage. Acting like the LHC is going to destroy the universe is no closer to the truth than those Mayan doomsday prophecies.

[QuothTheRaven]

At one point in time they believed testing the atomic bomb would react with the atmosphere and kill everybody on the planet. Never happened.

[Anoiktos]

I see no reason to have any limited set of dimensions.

0. Point
1. Line
2. Plane
3. Space
4. Line of space
5. Plane of space
6. Space of space
7. Line of space of space
8. Plane of space of space
9. Space of space of space
10. Line of space of space of space
11. Plane of space of space of space
12. Space of space of space of space
13. Etc...

In truth it isn't "line of space", or "plane of space", but merely a type of thing we don't have a name for ('line of space' might be seen, for example, as space laid out across time, and plane of space as various parallel spacetimes, and space of space as even more spacetimes with a different set of changes, etc.)

I just don't see the point in stopping at a given number, theoretically, and saying "this must be the number". You could say "these are all the dimensions I feel are necessary for my theory of the universe", and of course that's fine, but saying that there cannot be more than X with no rationale behind that belief is kind of silly, muchlike saying "there must be more than X without proof" is silly.

[SilverCrusader]

There is no dimension 0. A zero dimension would be zero, in other words nothing.
Also, string theory doesn't necessarily say that you have to have only 11 dimensions. It just needs at least 11 to work.

Anyway, I would think that you know what basic research is. It is researching for the sake of knowing. If what we're looking for exists it could help develop our technology.
Don't you get it? If we could find out what makes things have mass we can then find out what gravity really is.

[Duddits]

Is it possible for a atomic explosion to happen? I know thier not shooting atoms 'round, but could a proton split and cause like a protonic explosion or something? If this is all bogus and not even feasable, that's probably 'cause I have no idea what I'm talking about,

Imagine the force of 2 400-ton bullet trains colliding into each other. Now imagine that those bullet trains were the size of subatomic particles, because that is the kind of force that the LHC will produce.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26439957/

[deadkat]

LHC's system just got hacked (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/09/12/scicern212.xml).

Well. Biggest scientific project in the world, and it gets breached by a team of Greek hackers.

Kinda scary. If hackers screw something up mid-run, who knows what might happen.

[DoctorZettabyte]

Great spoof, deadkat.

I should hope that, being a scientific institution, they'd have some tight security both in reality and on the net, or they'd be using a closed-network, which I've heard they do. They designed it specifically for the LHC, but may find practical uses in high-end computing at the close of the next decade or sooner.

-DocZetta

[MatGeo]

We are 2600 - dont mess with us.

This made me lol so hard.

As for what scientists can do to counter some hackers, unplug the internets during testing. D'oh.

[SilverCrusader]

Imagine the force of 2 400-ton bullet trains colliding into each other. Now imagine that those bullet trains were the size of subatomic particles, because that is the kind of force that the LHC will produce.
Note that the bullet trains will be traveling at 99.999999% of the speed of light.

[Thedutchjelle]

Note that the bullet trains will be traveling at 99.999999% of the speed of light.

Yes, they shrink the mass, but increase it's speed. In the end the force is still the same. Right?

[MattTheFighter]

It's a proven fact that there are actually 11 dimensions. There's one in Chuck Norris's beard. How do you think that Fist got there?

But really, we were discussing this in my Honors Earth Science class. My highly educated Science Teacher(Who also teaches Biology, Chemistry, and some other science things at my Early College High School)thinks that this won't work. Infact, he bet the class that if this does work, Everyone will pass his class. So yeah, I hope it works. It should be interesting how it turns out

[SilverCrusader]

Yes, they shrink the mass, but increase it's speed. In the end the force is still the same. Right?
Probably, just all that force is compressed into the size of a photon. Also note that Einstein's theories state that the closer an object comes to light speed the more mass it has and thus more energy it takes to accelerate it further. I'd imagine the protons get HUUUUGGGGEEE.

[NoobOfLore]

I see no reason to have any limited set of dimensions.

0. Point
1. Line
2. Plane
3. Space
4. Line of space
5. Plane of space
6. Space of space
7. Line of space of space
8. Plane of space of space
9. Space of space of space
10. Line of space of space of space
11. Plane of space of space of space
12. Space of space of space of space
13. Etc...

In truth it isn't "line of space", or "plane of space", but merely a type of thing we don't have a name for ('line of space' might be seen, for example, as space laid out across time, and plane of space as various parallel spacetimes, and space of space as even more spacetimes with a different set of changes, etc.)

I just don't see the point in stopping at a given number, theoretically, and saying "this must be the number". You could say "these are all the dimensions I feel are necessary for my theory of the universe", and of course that's fine, but saying that there cannot be more than X with no rationale behind that belief is kind of silly, muchlike saying "there must be more than X without proof" is silly.
The mere fact that "my" theory is consistent with all the laws of physics is validation itself. They started with a basic theory, and realized that it worked, and expanded and refined it to the point of near-validity.
You have to give it some slack when it says that a certain number is needed to make the universe works. They aren't just guessing numbers and changing the laws of the world to fit them.
And similarly, your "line of space of point" analogy is a little odd. Simply grouping it in tri-nary doesn't make it a valid comparison. There is a whole new set of dimensions, the human mind just has difficulties comprehending them.
The point is that they have proof, and that proof is the theory itself, in its consistency.

[Duddits]

Probably, just all that force is compressed into the size of a photon. Also note that Einstein's theories state that the closer an object comes to light speed the more mass it has and thus more energy it takes to accelerate it further. I'd imagine the protons get HUUUUGGGGEEE.


The proton's don't have to literally get bigger to have more mass, just more dense. Even if they were to increase in size, how huge could a proton get??

[masterofhobbiton]

Even if they were to increase in size, how huge could a proton get??


Famous last words. http://209.85.48.9/10166/120/emo/EvilFox.gif

[SilverCrusader]

From what I understand they don't really get bigger in general, they get longer. Again, studying the supposed higgs boson would allow us to delve into why.
Something else interesting, the protons will hardly age at all. Run it around the track for a month and the proton might not of even aged one second.

[NoobOfLore]

True...Due to the little idea that an item can only have velocity of the speed of light. And since, when we're totally stationary, we go hurtling through time at the speed of light, and since the maximum speed is the speed of light, any movement otherwise detracts from your movement through time to equalize it to "C."
Thus why faster moving objects have time pass more slowly for themselves.

[Prozerran]

For those who don't know, there's all this hype about this Hadron Collider developed by scientists that would supposedly create a black hole that could destroy the entire universe.

Well, it's on. It works. The universe is still here.

But for some reason, there are a lot of people visiting...

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com

So, I figure I'd post a link for everyone to go see for themselves...

-Proz

EDIT: I posted an actual thread about this... but I never really bothered to learn about the "search" function to see if another one already existed. Needless to say, my thread was closed. Just thought I'd post here.

[ZeratulStukov]

I am sorry that I am unable to read the entire thread, but there is one thing I can say:

- THE WORLD WILL NOT END, YOU LUNATICS!

Now, why?

Let's see... If I understood correctly, the Large Hadron Collider accelerates particles (Particle Accelerator... DUH!) to nearly the speed of light.
Now, the scientists have used other particle accelerators, and during their experiments, it was noted that minute black holes are created by the collision between the accelerated particles.
However, the size of these black holes is not enough to cause any damage, furthermore, they last an unsignificant amount of time.

So, the theory that the world can end due to such an experiment, is BUSTED.

[MatGeo]

Too much Mythbusters mate.

[GrassDragon]

Probably, just all that force is compressed into the size of a photon. Also note that Einstein's theories state that the closer an object comes to light speed the more mass it has and thus more energy it takes to accelerate it further. I'd imagine the protons get HUUUUGGGGEEE.

The proton's don't have to literally get bigger to have more mass, just more dense. Even if they were to increase in size, how huge could a proton get??

From what I understand they don't really get bigger in general, they get longer. Again, studying the supposed higgs boson would allow us to delve into why.
Something else interesting, the protons will hardly age at all. Run it around the track for a month and the proton might not of even aged one second.

Relativistic mass is kind of a confusing topic, but keep in mind that the mass of the object isn't really increasing – that is, no material is being added to the object – just because it is moving. Relativistic mass is really more of a book keeping tool to deal with E=mc^2 and has more to do with energy than real mass.

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/mass.html

[WhatIsStarcraft]

I like Mythbusters, but you really seem to be into it, ZeratulStukov. I mean, reeaally into it.

[ZeratulStukov]

I like Mythbusters, but you really seem to be into it, ZeratulStukov. I mean, reeaally into it.

What I said makes no reference to Mythbusters other than the "busted" part. Wether you believe what I said is true or you don't, I do not care much, mostly because I know I am right and that is that.

Also, stop with the off-topic, please.

[SilverCrusader]

Also, stop with the off-topic, please.
YA MAN! Stop with the off-topicness!

Relativistic mass is kind of a confusing topic, but keep in mind that the mass of the object isn't really increasing – that is, no material is being added to the object – just because it is moving. Relativistic mass is really more of a book keeping tool to deal with E=mc^2 and has more to do with energy than real mass.
I see... Well that helps, I guess. I'm the type of person that really needs to see a whole system to understand it. I guess I'll have to wait for this higgs boson >.>

[Fiendwurm]

lol my first post in this thread got deleted(not surprised really) so I'll repeat it in a more on topic fashion.

Any one remember Y2K? Every one was freaking out that in 2000 the date would turn to 00 on their computers' calendars(they didn't include the 1000ths and the 100ths in computer's calenders because every one knew it was the 20th century) and suddenly all the computers would suffer some massive glitch and all the computers in the world would become useless and every one would sent to a hunter/scavenger life stile(i know that sounds crazy but people believed that it would happen). And guess what happened on January 1 2000. Nothing!!!!

I thoroughly believe that the same will happen. Nothing.

If a black hole is formed and I mean IF you will suddenly have a black hole the mass of TWO PROTONS in a vacuum. Now I don't completely understand black holes and how they work, but I assume that they need lots of mass in a small space, now Protons don't weigh much, an atomic weight of 2 barley anything. Not to mention that the black hole is in a vacuum, so the only other things it can suck up are other protons. So the only thing that to black hole would do would be able to do is evaporate vial hawking's radiation(right name?)







Busted XD

[Modred]

On the Y2K note, there is a chance that older computers still in service will start having date problems in the near future. For example, my old Windows 98 computer can't handle a date past Jan 1 2038 unless I go in and give it a new "start date" for the current age (it's currently set sometime in the 1970s). But your average computer user wouldn't know how to do this, and if the start date is hardcoded into the system, it can't be stopped. Now, why everyone thought 2000 would be the day for this to occur? Not much explanation I'm aware of, besides media hype. Most home computers are never used long enough for this to even be an issue, but certain businesses, like banking services, tend to stick to old equipment and practices for decades (case in point: they still use COBOL for everything).

Anyway, sounds to me like you're right on target. Black holes are large amounts of mass compressed into densities uncommon for such amounts of mass. A black hole from a collapsed star is dangerous because it still has the mass (and thus gravity) of a star but is not as easily detected. A black hole from two protons has the same mass as two protons (minus energy lost in the collision), so guess how much gravity it has? (Hint: about two protons worth.) As you can tell, I'm very worried about the end of the world. </sarcasm>

Anyway, what I'm most interested in with this thing is where the "debris" from the collisions will go. Hopefully, some of it ends up in interesting (ie: what we previously thought impossible) places (such as "disappearing" completely) and shed some light on the possibility of extra spatial dimensions.

[QuothTheRaven]

Windows 98? Dear God......is your computer coal powered?

[SilverCrusader]

Windows 98? Dear God......is your computer coal powered?
Windows 98 really isn't that old >.>

[Gunmonk]

Windows 98 really isn't that old >.>

Does it run on diesel?

[Protogod]

I'm fairly sure that Windows 98 is just a small chinese boy sitting in a box.

[Blackright]

I'm fairly sure that Windows 98 is just a small chinese boy sitting in a box.

Don't mess with us, the little eyed Asian tech tycoons.


This is my first post.

What I'm concerned about is the cooling system, not the actual collision that's going to definitely produce tiny insignificant black holes. When the protons are accelerated into strands of relatively elastic boosted matter, heat that's probably hotter than the core of the sun will be produced, if matter is sped up to 99.99999% the speed of light with such mass and force.

So, if that's the case, what if something gets fried up along the way when loose particles (take note, loose accelerations do occur, and they could split into chains that would collide uncontrollably with other protons, though the chances are slim) run through the LHC's main underground tunnel? I mean the heat would generate pressure within the LHC's reaction chamber and would definitely blast off bits of matter, which would interfere with the collision.

The possibilities of these are slim, but with enough cooling power, let's say -150,000^C... there should be counterreaction with the heat and cold pressure areas that would be able to generate catastrophic mini lightning storms within the chamber, causing even greater impeding disaster.

Ya'know, the chances are real. And they are scary.

~Blackright

[Ktan]

<unlurk>

It's a proven fact that there are actually 11 dimensions. There's one in Chuck Norris's beard. How do you think that Fist got there?

But really, we were discussing this in my Honors Earth Science class. My highly educated Science Teacher(Who also teaches Biology, Chemistry, and some other science things at my Early College High School)thinks that this won't work. Infact, he bet the class that if this does work, Everyone will pass his class. So yeah, I hope it works. It should be interesting how it turns out

It is, of course, worth bearing in mind that one of the great things about science is that a failed experiment can actually be a boon. One that spring to mind is the 'Michelson-Morely' experiment which was set up to try and detect the 'Aether'. It's probably one of the most famous 'failed' experiments but later it did wonders for physics, dispelling the notion that there was an aether and contributing greatly to Einstein's work with relativity.

<lurk>

[DarkMirror]

On the note of Y2K, our family knows someone who worked in the military, and apparently they actually did work to prevent it, doing some sort of minor preventory work.

However, they didn't think to protect their own systems, and they lost a shitload of accounting information. Really screwed them over.

[SilverCrusader]

The possibilities of these are slim, but with enough cooling power, let's say -150,000^C... there should be counterreaction with the heat and cold pressure areas that would be able to generate catastrophic mini lightning storms within the chamber, causing even greater impeding disaster.
The track is kept at 1.8 degrees above absolute zero, we have nothing to worry about.

[Modred]

The track is kept at 1.8 degrees above absolute zero, we have nothing to worry about.

Unless you mysteriously end up inside the collider. I wonder if you would shatter...

[NoobOfLore]

IF you somehow managed to get inside the collider while it was firing(impossible), you would be crushed rather painfully and quickly.
They use uber-magnets to fling around those protons, and here you are, just totally filled with protons...And Iron of all things.
So yes, you would die quickly and somewhat painfully.

[Modred]

IF you somehow managed to get inside the collider while it was firing(impossible), you would be crushed rather painfully and quickly.
They use uber-magnets to fling around those protons, and here you are, just totally filled with protons...And Iron of all things.
So yes, you would die quickly and somewhat painfully.

Toward the impossible: note the "mysteriously" in my original comment. ;)

And yes, you would die horribly, but I'm really wondering what would get you first. 1.8 degrees above absolute zero is enough to freeze you solid in a fraction of a second (I'm assuming you magically appear on the track). So yes, I imagine you would shatter into pieces, what with the massive electromagnetic field and the lovely little protons smashing into your (icily brittle) body at such high velocity.

Or maybe you're crushed first and then frozen. Not like I really have anything to base this on.

[mranderson]

Hmm an interesting theory. I would guess that your outer skin would provide a fraction of a second measure against the cold, and you would be smashed by the super magnets :P

But if we can make atoms combine why can't we transport someone through a "transdimensional rift." Or what would happen if someone's remnants of their body were found inside the machine due to a rift being opened completely by chance and as a side affect :)

[MatGeo]

-150,000^C

If that is -150k, I would like to inform you that absolute zero is -273,15°C.

If it isn't, disregard this.

[ZeratulStukov]

But if we can make atoms combine why can't we transport someone through a "transdimensional rift."

Resonance cascade, demon invasion, aliens from any part of the universe, etc.

That sort of things (transdimensional rift, as you called it) are FTL, in my opinion.

[Blackright]

Really smashing idea here.

Remember what happened to Freeman in HL1? What if during the collision, a warp rift opens connecting our world with another galaxy, allowing intergalactic transport (i.e, a wormhole or that sort); or what if it opens a warp portal to an earlier point in time? Say, dinosaurs?

~Blackright

[3Vee]

...And so instead of killing a person, we end up killing a dinosaur with our freezing-cold supercollider? Nice.

[Fiendwurm]

...And so instead of killing a person, we end up killing a dinosaur with our freezing-cold supercollider? Nice.
And that's how dinosaurs went extinct.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

I would like to officially request this thread's name be changed to "Halo" as the Large Hadron Collider is now outdated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/earth/2008/09/17/scilhc117.xml

[SilverCrusader]

Halo wasn't a particle collider nub.

[Muse]

Halo wasn't a particle collider nub.

It is now.

[IrishDutchman]

'Halo'. Yep, great name for a giant circular device that everyone distrusts and suspects. Especially since the other famous 'Halo' device from a recent videogame was a giant, circular device designed to DESTROY ALL LIVING THINGS.

Those PR guys need to lay off the crack.

[Muse]

'Halo'. Yep, great name for a giant circular device that everyone distrusts and suspects. Especially since the other famous 'Halo' device from a recent videogame was a giant, circular device designed to DESTROY ALL LIVING THINGS.

Those PR guys need to lay off the crack.

D:

It's a conspiracy, obviously.

[singo]

Damn, that means no more amusing typos in news reports.

http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bellendoftheworldsq6.jpg The caption below the picture.

[Lithium]

D:

It's a conspiracy, obviously.

What if the evil scientists at LHC purposely built it to destroy mankind? =O



Telegraph readers also rose to the challenge with several hundred suggestions. They came up with:

Ovid's Phaeton
The Magic Roundabout
The Genesis Engine
E42 - E for Energy, 42, from The Hitchhikers Guide
Adam Smasher
Hawkinator after Stephen Hawking
Puff The Magic Hadron
Bosonator
BOB - Biggest Of Bangs
Mr Twirly Beams
The One Ring
Stargate

The ones in bold are just plain fail.

[U-238]

LHC is now done till November at least. Enjoy your few added months of life.

[IrishDutchman]

Lol, Hawkinator would have been an awesome name.

[WhatIsStarcraft]

You kidding! We have some more months to live?!

Yay!!!!

[SilverCrusader]

He's serious. A mistake messed up a magnet and the official start up has been postponed for at least two months.

[Alexisonfire]

man I hope they get this thing going and destroy the world before December I really don't wanna write my exams this year

[Giggilyomeromicon]

Confirmed: LHC isn't going to start up until the spring.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Actually being sucked into a black hole, especially a series of black holes, would be one of the most unimaginably painful things ever.

im sorry, nobody knows that. it's likely it'd be instant death.

[DarkMirror]

In fact, I would bet that it would be painless even if it wasn't instant. Seeing as the pain receptors would be stretched apart.

[Lithium]

LOL watch us all be here all joking about it sarcastically and it actually happens. =O

[ZeratulStukov]

What's the problem Lithium?

We're joking here, and they make a huge breakthrough there... yes, not a great combination, but meh....

[Zerg_eater]

Large hardon collider >_>
So what happens if we do die?
whaddya think death lwould be like

[ZeratulStukov]

So what happens if we do die?

The chances are 0% !!!!

Not 0,000001%, but simply 0% !!!

It is something as impossible as a man living inside the Sun, as impossible as God's existence....

It just will not happen due to this large particle accelerator.

-_-

[DarkMirror]

First of all ZS, its not a sheer 0%. There is a miniscule possibility of it happening. Second of all, no need to bash religion. Theres no way to prove or disprove God(s) existing.

[IrishDutchman]

as impossible as God's existence....

First of all ZS, its not a sheer 0%. There is a miniscule possibility of it happening. Second of all, no need to bash religion. Theres no way to prove or disprove God(s) existing.

Oh fuck, no! You guys are not turning this into another religious debate, stop it right there!

:cuss:

[ZeratulStukov]

You guys are not turning this into another religious debate

No, I am going to turn it into an anti-religion spam zone...

Just kidding...

Anyway, God does not exist and you have absolutely no proof against this...

Now, back on topic, the chances that a catastrophy of epic proportions will happen are next to nil, thus they are simply >>> TOO MICROSCOPIC TO BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION BY THE "AVERAGE JOE" <<<

end of thread...

[DarkMirror]

ZS, stop fucking around. Again, theres no way to disprove God(s) existing, for numerous reasons. Also, theres a big difference between 0% and "too small to really consider".

[DoctorZettabyte]

Fix your period key.
Stop trolling.
Stop turning this into a debate on God's existence.
On a crude number line, one is next to zero (nil).
You can do almost nothing to declare an end to a thread.
All your base are belong to us. Make your time.

-DocZetta

[ZeratulStukov]

Fix your period key.

I have absolutely no problem with any key on my keyboard, thank you very much... -_-

[DarkMirror]

Then stop using '...'. Its like stopping for an extended silence every time you finish saying something.

[SilverCrusader]

Actually the LHC does have the chance of discovering God.
This chance is higher I believe than the LHC destroying the Earth.

Anyway, I don't want to hear any "God does/doesn't exist" crap because:
1. There isn't any evidence that supernatural being(s) do/don't exist. Therefore it wouldn't make for such a good debate in the first place as no statement can be backed up with evidence.
2. It will simply result in a flame war because ass pricks always resort to flaming without any sound arguments. All attempts to have a clean debate have been foiled by people making uneducated and blatant comments that refuse to accept that people can be allowed to have beliefs that aren't his/her own.

And now I back up my claim.
http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/08/04/what-will-the-lhc-find/

[3Vee]

Way to turn the thread on its head, SC. Also, I'd love to know how they calculated that chance.

[Muse]

Actually the LHC does have the chance of discovering God.
This chance is higher I believe than the LHC destroying the Earth.

Anyway, I don't want to hear any "God does/doesn't exist" crap because:
1. There isn't any evidence that supernatural being(s) do/don't exist. Therefore it wouldn't make for such a good debate in the first place as no statement can be backed up with evidence.
2. It will simply result in a flame war because ass pricks always resort to flaming without any sound arguments. All attempts to have a clean debate have been foiled by people making uneducated and blatant comments that refuse to accept that people can be allowed to have beliefs that aren't his/her own.

And now I back up my claim.
http://cosmicvariance.com/2008/08/04/what-will-the-lhc-find/

This was a very interesting read.

It's interesting that they think there is a chance we may discover "God". What does that mean? What is "God" as defined by that prediction?

I find the concept of supersymmetry to be intriguing as well.

[kongurous]

I have absolutely no problem with any key on my keyboard, thank you very much... -_-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis Stop using them incorrectly, it makes you look stupid and it's annoying.

[ZeratulStukov]

Kong, you gave me an article but you forgot to read it yourself:

An ellipsis can also be used to indicate a pause in speech, an unfinished thought or, at the end of a sentence, a trailing off into silence

[Muse]

Kong, you gave me an article but you forgot to read it yourself:

You're banned, but you're not trailing off into silence because silence implies you have nothing more to say. Unfortunately, that never seems to be true.

[kongurous]

Kong, you gave me an article but you forgot to read it yourself:

You're making a facetious assumption that not only makes you look like a fool but highly amuses me. What is this assumption, you wonder? It's very simple, really. So simple that you may have already figured it out (although I doubt that considerably). Here it is. Waaaaaait for it...

You aren't speaking and you can't trail off into silence.

[DoctorZettabyte]

If you did speak like that, you'd be speaking and then muttering, speaking, and then muttering. Not a great way to speak at all, if you want to be anywhere near social.

[DarthPaul]

Kong, you gave me an article but you forgot to read it yourself:

Read farther than the first paragraph.

"An ellipsis at the end of a sentence with no sentence following should be followed by a period (for a total of four dots)."

You failed there.
Also, why are we arguing over grammar when we could stay on topic and talk about the Large Hard-on Collider.

[DoctorZettabyte]

Dunno. It's down until spring. Doesn't make for a lively debate.

I vote for a close.

-DocZetta

[DarthPaul]

Nah, we can just necro this thread when the time comes.

[Gunmonk]

or there is the possibility of keeping it around until then XD

[DarkMirror]

That'll end badly.

[NoobOfLore]

Not if people stop posting one-liners.
(lolIrony)

[Lithium]

They mentioned the LHC in the presidential debate. McCain doesn't have a clue what it is, and Obama's pro-LHC.

[Muse]

I don't see why it even matters what they think of the LHC, it's our of our hands anyway.

[WhatIsStarcraft]

Huh, they mentioned it? It hates me that I couldn't watch the presidential debates.

It's also so annoying that so much depends on one country, and that country of course has to be all fucked up! Sorry all you amercian guys here, but it's true. Your economy is instantly killing the economy of the entire world at the same time. Even countries that don't do business with the US get raped by the fat Man sitting in his chair smoking his cuban sigar.

[Muse]

Huh, they mentioned it? It hates me that I couldn't watch the presidential debates.

It's also so annoying that so much depends on one country, and that country of course has to be all fucked up! Sorry all you amercian guys here, but it's true. Your economy is instantly killing the economy of the entire world at the same time. Even countries that don't do business with the US get raped by the fat Man sitting in his chair smoking his cuban sigar.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Nils_Olav_inspection.jpg

Tell your Penguin Knight Commander Sir Nils Olav that this means war.

[ForTheSwarm]

Huh, they mentioned it? It hates me that I couldn't watch the presidential debates.

It's also so annoying that so much depends on one country, and that country of course has to be all fucked up! Sorry all you amercian guys here, but it's true. Your economy is instantly killing the economy of the entire world at the same time. Even countries that don't do business with the US get raped by the fat Man sitting in his chair smoking his cuban sigar.

Unfortunately, the U.S. economy and the LHC really have no relationship.

[Muse]

Unfortunately, the U.S. economy and the LHC really have no relationship.

Exactly, silly Europeans.

[WhatIsStarcraft]

I'm glad that it doesn't have any connection, or else 40 billion dollars would go right in my platina ass :)

Also, america is a product of Europe, so don't tell us that we are silly, we made you, muhahahaha!!!!





Just kidding, lol.

[Muse]

I think this thread has been squeezed dry of any useful discussion, plus the LHC is postponed.

[WhatIsStarcraft]

Lets wait for spring to come, cuz that's when the LHC will fire, I think. Wow the LHC reminds me a little bit about Black Sun from Supreme Commander.