Need help with PvZ!

[ZeratulStukov]

A couple of months ago I thought that I should start playing games against the computer again. Also, I decided I should try without multiple cheats, leaving only Black Sheep Wall useable.

A zergling rush was the only way I could win games, them being ZvT. Recently I managed to win my first TvZ after about two hours! Man, I pwned those Zerg :D

But since my favourite race is Protoss, I thought that once my ban will be lifted I could drop by at Warboards' SC Tactical Chamber and ask for tips. I'm a Below Average noob, so don't give me advices that are too hard for me to use.

[masterofhobbiton]

Step 1: Don't use any cheats at all.
Step 2: Get way more probes than you think you need, more probes than there are minerals.
Step 3: Expand.
Step 4: Practice.

[ZeratulStukov]

Step 2: Get way more probes than you think you need, more probes than there are minerals.

I really used that... Somehow, I stumbled upon a Zerg strategy thread here somewhere (made by Ahzz, I'm not sure :| ) and there it said "1.5 more drones than minerals".

Step 3: Expand

When playing Protoss, I usually do that kinda' late.


I would like to know a few defensive and offensive strategies. In the most recent PvZ, I often attacked the enemy's expansion points (before the Hatchery was spawned and the overlords appeared) with Dark Templars and suddenly retreated when their overlords started moving. I also used High Templar drop. Psi-storm on the guarding units, then retreat to a safe zone and Archon Merge.
For defense I used as many Photon Cannons and Dark Templars as the resources at that time could afford.

Are the strategies used good? What else should I try?

[masterofhobbiton]

Well, they are useful strategies, but you shouldn't rely on them especially just to beat the computer. Unfortunately the computer isn't very good against these because it doesn't anticipate them, real players probably will so they become a bit less useful. Which isn't to say you shouldn't use them, just you should have an army. I would suggest massing dragoons. It's a strategy that works pretty well and is pretty simple. It's okay to expand a bit late so long as it happens, if you sit in your base 'till you're mined out then you're screwed. Photon cannons work very well against the computer because he'll only send waves of forces against them, they'll get taken out eventually but a real player would just sit back and make units that are good against them, so don't get too reliant on them. Do get in the habit though of making a couple of them around your minerals, because in a real game the enemy would be attacking your workers. When you get to the high templar level, don't psi storm units unless you're in a battle, drop them in the enemy base and take out the workers, same for the dark templar. Although if it is a battle, then you'll want psi storm there too, don't waste all your templar on drops. But I wouldn't worry about that for now, don't bother with spellcasters till you can beat the computer with your regular army.
I dunno, just practice making lots of dragoons and attacking with them. They work pretty well. You can also practice your micro, just move the dragoons that are being attacked away and then back into the fight when they stop being attacked.

[ZeratulStukov]

Real players aren't a problem, since I don't and won't play on Battle.net
All I want to do is learn how to pwn the computer using different strategies.

It's okay to expand a bit late so long as it happens, if you sit in your base 'till you're mined out then you're screwed.

In my recent matches, with both Terran and Protoss, I already had two expansions before that happened.

[masterofhobbiton]

Okay good, then you probably don't have too much of a problem there. If you only want to beat the computer, make a forge, put a pylon just outside the enemy base, make ~5 photon cannons, and send your probe to attack one of his buildings. All of his workers will chase after you and you can lead them to the cannons. :)

[DoctorZettabyte]

You may find Aqo's strategy helpful.

Here's the best Starcraft strategy:

1. Put pressure on your opponent.
2. Only fight battles that you're going to win. Retreat from battles that you'd lose.
3. Constantly expand and macro.
4. Scout often. Don't let the opponent cheese you or catch you off-guard.
5. Don't suck.

Why would I need any other strategy? This one works flawlessly in 100% of the cases, if you do it right.

-DocZetta

[ShadeZ]

I really used that... Somehow, I stumbled upon a Zerg strategy thread here somewhere (made by Ahzz, I'm not sure :| ) and there it said "1.5 more drones than minerals".
You have to also realize that zerg generally have the least workers in an expansion, so you're going to want to have even more then that.

[BrotherGreen]

Go zealot/archon.

use 2-3 cannons just for auxilery defense around your expos and chokes. Your army is your defense.

I dont care what you do, expand earlier if you havnt been.

[PaiN]

Honestly against computers its really easy.

Keep constant probe pump and then go pylon, gateway, gateway (2 gate open)
pump zealots from both gates and keep probe pump constant and eventually you will have 400 minerals. (do not que units)

expand

get more gateways so you have 5-6 and get citadel (zealot speed) forge (canon anything your too lazy to defend, against computers it will work) and observers.

Constant zealot goon pump and its an easy win.

From here follow aqo's steps posted by DocZetta and its an easy win.

[neobowman]

If your Terran, mass rax and mass marines. No need to even get gas. Ez against comps.

[ZeratulStukov]

If your Terran, mass rax and mass marines. No need to even get gas. Ez against comps.

Thanks for the help but:

1) What do you mean by "mass"?
2) "rax" ???
3) This thread is for Protoss only, but I appreciate it anyway :P

[PaiN]

mass = to amass a large number of one unit

so basically neo said make a lot of barracks (rax) and then make tons of marines and just run over your enemy.

Sadly, you need to have good timing because once you get late game this will have no effect because lurks/tanks/reavers/storm/etc

[own3d0406]

Always start off with 8 pylon, then you can either go into a standard build with 2 gateways pumping zealots, DT corsair rush, fast tech to templars, or cannons and fast expand.

Of course, when you're playing with the computer you could always turtle and mass carriers.

[PaiN]

Well there is really no other start than 8 pylon unless you go like 6 gate pressure... or proxy... or 9 nexus?

[neobowman]

My mass Marine and barracks strat is basically ONLY aganist computers. It actually works pretty well and it's so boring to use that if you use it once, you'll never use it again.

[PaiN]

Hmm. Ill assume you attack early game because I cant see it working mid to late game at all

[neobowman]

Yes pretty much. Don't try it with humans. Human players will generaly scout it, and kill you.

[Lithium]

For comps,

7-py - 8 gate - 9 forge - 10 - cannon - cannon - cannon

Then goon, then stargate > carriers. This is fun because the comps never expect it. (I can get carriers in 6 mins. I'm slow =[

[lammas]

hey I have a good strategy vs computers too!!!

Make only scvs and when you have limit go and kill the comp! Or make only wraiths and then kill it!!! Or make any units you like and then win game?

You can also try lammas ultimate challenge: play and try to lose vs the computer!

Seems pretty difficult to me.

Lithium maybe the computers never expect you doing carrys because computers modify their strategies in no way at all, no matter what you do.

[Ahzz]

hey I have a good strategy vs computers too!!!

Make only scvs and when you have limit go and kill the comp! Or make only wraiths and then kill it!!! Or make any units you like and then win game?

You can also try lammas ultimate challenge: play and try to lose vs the computer!
That's fun. I played a zvt where I only used drones and queens and still won.... And the reason why they even sustained so long was cuz they had firebats and stimpacks. (stacked drones die)

Lithium maybe the computers never expect you doing carrys because computers modify their strategies in no way at all, no matter what you do.
pretty much yeah. It's possible to code it so that it reacts in a specific way if its attacked or if you have something or if it has big enough army etc etc, but even then not very well.
blizzard computers dont have this, though

[apostolos]

That's fun. I played a zvt where I only used drones and queens and still won.... And the reason why they even sustained so long was cuz they had firebats and stimpacks. (stacked drones die)
Zergling and Scourge rush = Epic Win


But back on topic:
ZS, on PvZ you'll mainly need many zealots, a forge (upgrading your units ofc) and photon cannons as faster as possible.I owned a computer with 4 zealots this way.

[Ahzz]

Zergling and Scourge rush = Epic Win
not really. anyone can win with only lings even if they have air

[Cpt.Chronic]

Damn, how long can you people discuss what unit is best to kill a comp with. Fucking thread is useless.