What's wrong with SC2 as of now.

[SilverCrusader]

What's wrong:
The thor - Just doesn't work.
Medievac dropship - I'm not really against it, but it makes little sense.
Vespene Geyser mechanic - Again, just doesn't work.
The queen - The queen idea is good, but as of now it isn't fitting, I'm sure they'll eventually get it right.
The graphics - The graphics do look pretty darn good, and the new terran textures was a definite plus, but I think Blizzard can do a better job. And I know they are pressed in the graphical department, so I'm not going to stress this.

Now, I don't want to end this on a bad note, because as of late all I've been doing is picking away at what is wrong, so I would also like to write an essay about what has been done right.

First off, let me say from the first unveiling until now Blizzard has done an excellent job listening to the fans, it is something not really heard of in the gaming industry. SC2 won't just be another RTS done by Blizzard, I would go so far to say it was a collective effort between the fans and Blizzard. This level of mutual respect between the two parties is amazing, and I have to commend Blizzard for it. Making a sequel to the greatest RTS of all time is more than just difficult. Which is why people are picking at it so much. They want SC2 to surpass SC1.
I'd like to start building on what was right with what was unveiled first - the Protoss. A lot of work has been done on them and I would say an excellent job has been done portraying them as the technological mystic race they are. There are things here and there that people tend to not like, but those are artwork matters, they have little to do with actual gameplay. The phase prism was a superb idea, accolades to the person who thought that up. Also the new system of warping in units is absolutely wonderful, it adds to the whole feel of the Protoss being masters of space-time. I am saddened, however, at the removal of the mothership, I felt as if that fit the Protoss perfectly, and its abilities (timebomb and blackhole) went hand in hand with what the Protoss were. And I can understand why they took it out. It was for balance reasons, which is entirely understandable and the correct choice becuase they just couldn't make the concept fit into what worked.
My second point is more of the terrain and landscape. The double yield yellow minerals was a good idea, and the graphics of the terrain, especially the water, looks nice. Some people complain about the actual terrain, but I think a very nice job was done on it.
And lastily, I love the plot hole about the Benglaas. That just made my day when I read about that. But be wary Blizzard, they are plotting our demise as we speak.

[apostolos]

I totally agree with you m8.And what is this bengalaas plot thing anyway?

[masterofhobbiton]

My main problem with this topic is that unlike protogod's editorial, this doesn't really have enough content to be a whole topic I think, unless it is intended to be a thread where everyone says what they think is wrong. Pretty much all that you have said is you like the art department and the protoss, but not the thor, queen and medivac. There's really not much to discuss...

Also, I believe that both the mothership and its time bomb spell were in the game as of WWI. :)

[Protogod]

My main problem with this topic is that unlike protogod's editorial, this doesn't really have enough content to be a whole topic


Awesome, except when i posted my editorial you complained about that too...

[masterofhobbiton]

Err, no I didn't. :/ I disagreed with a lot of stuff, but I don't think I said anything about it being too short to be worth it. But it doesn't matter, if I did say that then I was wrong because it generated a page or two of talk. But I can't really see this doing that, sorry SC. Unless you want everyone to post their own opinions.

[ZeratulStukov]

The thor - Just doesn't work.


I agree.

Medievac dropship - I'm not really against it, but it makes little sense.

I don't like it either. I believe normal medics (with perhaps a minor pistol attack or something) would be better.

Vespene Geyser mechanic - Again, just doesn't work.

To me it seems even more stupid than the Thor.

The queen - The queen idea is good, but as of now it isn't fitting, I'm sure they'll eventually get it right.


The Queen in its most recent form is something I dislike. If it would have kept it's defensive features, I would say "Awesome".

Also, I add:

Dark Templar - I just hate that goddamn scythe! Besides, the new design makes it look much more like the Heavy Predator from AVP2 (video game). And Dark Templars are atributed to ninjas, stealthy assassins and this kind of things, not bulky Grim Reaper-in-huge-alien-armor

Ghost - I like that it lost the Drop Pods ability, but since the Terrans are already using Coil Guns (a.k.a. Gauss Rifles), why couldn't they equip their ghosts with Rail Guns? Especially since the Jackal lost its.

Zerg Defensive Buildings, a.k.a. the "Crawlers" - They should have just let the Queen handle the defenses

Zerg Roach - I simply don't like the idea, not to mention that IMO it's somewhat imbalanced.

[SilverCrusader]

Go ahead, please, post your own opinions on the matter.

I totally agree with you m8.And what is this bengalaas plot thing anyway?

When asked about the zealot death blizzard responded by saying that the blue flash is part of a teleportation mechanism to transport warriors that have sustained too much damage to a haven where they can recover. However, in SC1 not only did the zealot death apply to DTs and Zealots, but also the critter Benglaas. It took off from there. After much talk we have deduced that the Benglaas are a highly advanced race unparalled by the likes of the Zerg, Terran, or Protoss and are plotting the demise of you and your troops as you speak. Whenever a benglaas is teleported back it splits into three clones of itself thus increasing the size of their army.

[ZeratulStukov]

When asked about the zealot death blizzard responded by saying that the blue flash is part of a teleportation mechanism to transport warriors that have sustained too much damage to a haven where they can recover. However, in SC1 not only did the zealot death apply to DTs and Zealots, but also the critter Benglaas. It took off from there. After much talk we have deduced that the Benglaas are a highly advanced race unparalled by the likes of the Zerg, Terran, or Protoss and are plotting the demise of you and your troops as you speak. Whenever a benglaas is teleported back it splits into three clones of itself.

One word.... Funny as hell... Wait, there are three words... Who cares, this thing is Pwnsome :D

[Dem0nS1ayer]

OMG I hate the new graphics! They look like bubbly pieces of crap (especially the Zerg Buildings)! If you look at D3, it has SUCH nicer graphics, while Starcraft has trashy graphics! :(

[vIsitor]

The Thor - Just doesn't work.

That remains to be seen. You could be right, but there is an equal probability that you are wrong.

Not having first-hand experience with it myself, I'm running largely on TheoryCraft here, but it would seem to me that the Thor is only a distant cousin to the Goliath it is so often compared to. The Goliath was good against heavy air units and light/medium ground units; the Thor is good against light air units, and its ground attack would be wasted against light units. Seems an inversion to me, rather than a carbon copy.

As for the model; I believe Samwise said they'd change it once the unit's role is definite.

Medievac dropship - I'm not really against it, but it makes little sense.

I strongly disagree.

Game-play-wise, healing isn't needed as much early-game (thanks to the Marauder), and the Medivac is more balanced than the Medic.

Lore-wise, Medics were UED tech anyway. The Medivac is just the Dominion's cheap, half-assed attempt at a knock-off. :P

Aesthetic-wise, there is no room for complaining (Medics used a magic flashlight for heaven's sake!).

Vespene Geyser mechanic - Again, just doesn't work.

Most likely. I'll make the point that something should be done to increase macromanagement, but the Vespene mechanic does seem poorly thought out.

The Queen - The Queen idea is good, but as of now it isn't fitting, I'm sure they'll eventually get it right.

The problem with the Queen is that its a 'unique' unit; sure, thats generally the point, but the artificial center of gravity which it creates is bad for game-play in general (its the very reason why WC3 Heroes are so despised!).

Blizzard's attempts to balance around this particular caveat have rather gimped the unit; which is a far-cry from its well-received original concept. Its ironic that in pursuit of the attempt of retaining its "lording over the hive" aspect, its rather lost the vibe of the same.

The graphics - The graphics do look pretty darn good, and the new terrain textures was a definite plus, but I think Blizzard can do a better job. And I know they are pressed in the graphical department, so I'm not going to stress this.

With the notable exception of the Zerg, I'm pretty happy with the graphics right now. Although, if I had to make a criticism of the others, I'd say that the sprites look a little faded in some of the screenshots (although that may be an intended effect).

[ChimTheGrim21]

1 I really cant see how you can say the vespene geyser change doesnt work when you havent played it. If the rules apply to everyone, then it is a fair change. I am not going to say it is bad until i try it.

2 I think either the thor needs to be scrapped or the seige tank. I think it should be the seige tank. Why? Many great things from WC2 were removed from WC3, like the High Elven Ranger on human and Ogres on Orc. Some staple things from the first SC are going to have to leave in SC2 as well. Thats just what makes it different. I like the Thor, I just dont think you can have 2 seige units.

[Jaxander]

I haven't been keeping up with SC2 as much as I should, but do the Terran have a heavy Surface-to-Air unit? Make the Thor's role primarily anti-air, and give it a weaker ground attack. That would seem to make it fit, IMO.

Wait, is the Viking primarily Surface to Air or is it Surface to Surface? I guess the note above was made on the assumption of the Viking being StS. As I said, I haven't been keeping up that well. :S

[DarkMirror]

Tank should stay. The tank rocks, its fun, its classiv, and Seige mod rules.

[NoobOfLore]

Yes, the tank is classic. You can't remove the siege tank.
And I think he Thor is already StA focused.
And the Viking is a transforming unit, it has two forms.
1. Surface to Surface---Similar to goliath ground role
2. Air to Air---With a similar attack to the wraith AA attack.
So it switches between the two roles on command, but I think it starts in ground mode, and air mode needs to be researched.

[Ktan]

1 I really cant see how you can say the vespene geyser change doesnt work when you havent played it. If the rules apply to everyone, then it is a fair change. I am not going to say it is bad until i try it.


In one way you are true, but for me, it would be akin to arguing 'you can't complain about them putting Night Elf archers in when you haven't used them'. In essence, it's mechanic that, currently as it stands, really seems to add nothing aside from making almost geysers un-depletable while not making very much sense from a common sense point of view, nor a particularly convincing gameplay point of view.

[Vezer]

I think either the thor needs to be scrapped or the seige tank. I think it should be the seige tank. Why? Many great things from WC2 were removed from WC3, like the High Elven Ranger on human and Ogres on Orc. Some staple things from the first SC are going to have to leave in SC2 as well. Thats just what makes it different. I like the Thor, I just dont think you can have 2 seige units.

I'd play WC2 over WC3 anyday. Why must staple things from the first SC 'leave', why can't they just be expanded on?

[Jaxander]

I'd play WC2 over WC3 anyday. Why must staple things from the first SC 'leave', why can't they just be expanded on?


Which is exactly what Blizzard wants to do, which is why threads like this exist, which occasionally, Blizzard listens to. :D

[ChimTheGrim21]

I'd play WC2 over WC3 anyday. Why must staple things from the first SC 'leave', why can't they just be expanded on?
WC2 was great, but theres no way I'd play it over WC3. You're on your own.

In one way you are true, but for me, it would be akin to arguing 'you can't complain about them putting Night Elf archers in when you haven't used them'. In essence, it's mechanic that, currently as it stands, really seems to add nothing aside from making almost geysers un-depletable while not making very much sense from a common sense point of view, nor a particularly convincing gameplay point of view.
That's not a relevant comparison to what I was saying, because an Archer is a unit from a completely different setting--and would likely only apply to one race. The vespene change is a gameplay rule that applies to everyone --every race and player-- and fits the sci-fi setting. So no, you can't just say that. Also, you can't say the vespene change adds "nothing aside from making most geyesers undepletable," because you have no idea what you're talking about--none of us do. We haven't played it at all. If you think of it in depth, the rules apply to all. And it's something worth trying if it adds depth to help differentiate the pros from the nubs without sacrificing the basic simplicity of gameplay.

[SilverCrusader]

I just realized why am I still complaining about this new mechanic? It will probably be taken out in beta testing when fuck... No wait never mind, they certainly killed any Zerg expanding 60% of the time and then ponder for a year why the Zerg aren't expanding.

[Ktan]

That's not a relevant comparison to what I was saying, because an Archer is a unit from a completely different setting--and would likely only apply to one race. The vespene change is a gameplay rule that applies to everyone --every race and player-- and fits the sci-fi setting. So no, you can't just say that. Also, you can't say the vespene change adds "nothing aside from making most geyesers undepletable," because you have no idea what you're talking about--none of us do. We haven't played it at all. If you think of it in depth, the rules apply to all. And it's something worth trying if it adds depth to help differentiate the pros from the nubs without sacrificing the basic simplicity of gameplay.

It's probably that you're missing the point of my comparison then. I'll admit, I was being snarky too.

I was saying, just because a mechanic 'may work' does not mean it 'makes sense'. To me, the current Vespene system is about as fitting in StarCraft as Elf Archers because neither make sense at all. I could care less about the influence it has on the game when there are much more sensible ways to encourage this rather false 'risk reward mechanic' much more naturally.

[ChimTheGrim21]

I see what you're saying, but like SilverCrusader said.. I doubt the mechanic will make it out of beta. If it does, then I'll see for myself.