Importing Maps

[Kankuro4800]

Will the new Map Editor be able to import SC1 Maps? I'm assuming all the SC1 units will be making an appearance in the map editor along with the same tilesets, so it would seem logical to have imports.

Any info on this?

[ForTheSwarm]

I really really hope it does. I'd like to update one of my maps, but it has like 100 triggers.

[NoobOfLore]

That seems like an incredibly interesting feature...I guess if SC2 is able to interpret block terrain and ALL units and triggers, then it might work. However, some of the quirks of the original SC may be fixed or removed in SC2, so remember, they will not change the game to fit BW maps, they ARE on a different engine.

[SilverCrusader]

Wtf are you guys smoking. No it won't be able to open SC1 maps.

[masterofhobbiton]

Could WC3 open WC2 maps? Not gonna happen. Terrain MIGHT be possible to do, but it's not happening. Triggers, heh, no way.

[Kankuro4800]

Just wondering, but for the map editor, are the just building up from the original editor, or are they completely rewriting the code thingummies?

[NoobOfLore]

I'm pretty sure they'll take some basic ideas from the original, But I'm almost certain they will NOT be just rebuilding the SC1 editor. They'll be making a totally new one that implements tons of new ideas and functions.

[Protogod]

The SC2 editor is done in a completely different manner than SC's original editor.

The SC2 editor is data-driven, while sc1's wasnt even string-driven like WC3's. SC1 just had some weird code that was shoddily done and cut corners.

Aside from the fact that the editor runs entirely differently, there is no way for sc2 to interpret block terrain in a 3d way. Block terrain was just individual tiles with assigned properties. SC2's 3D terrain is far more in depth, with lots of info that sc1's terrain simply lacks, so there wouldnt be enough data to reconfigure tiles into 3d models.

There isnt a chance that sc2 will contain a "map converter" feature. Sorry to disappoint, but it is impossible.

[neobowman]

Though I heard that Blizzard was going to remake some of the old classics for sc2. (cough LT cough)

[NoobOfLore]

While that seems like a wholly plausible idea, a map that was so well made in SC1, MAY be severely unbalanced in SC2. While it may be recreated to the interest to classic mappers, some more generic maps would be better converted.

[Ling666]

That's like... making a painting by stepping around with paint-filled shoes, and then when you get a paintbrush you want to add on to the old one?

The new editor is going to be so much more superior, with so many more capabilities, that I don't think it will be even worth it to import the old ones. Making the maps all over again with the SC2 editor would make them several times better at least.

[Protogod]

The SC2 editor is done in a completely different manner than SC's original editor.

The SC2 editor is data-driven, while sc1's wasnt even string-driven like WC3's. SC1 just had some weird code that was shoddily done and cut corners.

Aside from the fact that the editor runs entirely differently, there is no way for sc2 to interpret block terrain in a 3d way. Block terrain was just individual tiles with assigned properties. SC2's 3D terrain is far more in depth, with lots of info that sc1's terrain simply lacks, so there wouldnt be enough data to reconfigure tiles into 3d models.

There isnt a chance that sc2 will contain a "map converter" feature. Sorry to disappoint, but it is impossible.

I reiterate....

[Yohdan]

just another question on this topic; will the new Editor be able to testplay without having to Alt+Tab to the game, start the level, etc. etc. ?

[Sento]

there's something that might in theory be useful, but in reality, would it really be that much of a difference? i mean, in SCI it was just a few extra seconds to load the map from SC than it would've been if you could just do it straight from the campaign editor. You have to remember: starcraft would still have to be 'loaded' to run the map

[NoobOfLore]

Secondarily-Maps with more than one human player could cause a problem. Seems like a waste of processing power to me, based on that and what Sento said.

[markosmarky]

it is 50% possible that blizzard will make wc WE that imports SC Maps


(For Noobs: WC= Warcraft |||||||WE= World Editor ||||SC = Star Craft)

[DarkMirror]

First of all, your "for noobs" comment is insulting. Also, Blizzard already stated that there would be no way to import Warcraft maps or units into SC2.

[Protogod]

it is 50% possible that blizzard will make wc WE that imports SC Maps


No, there is not a 50% chance. WE uses a system of "strings" to make up the map files and information, whereas SCII's editor will be completely data driven. SO aside from the impossibility of it, Blizzard has even announced that they will not attempt to make it work.

Your made up statistics and assumptions do not add to this conversation in any meaningful way.

[SilverCrusader]

Why is this topic still alive :/

There won't be support for any maps but SC2 ones. Okay? There.

[Basan]

Why is this topic still alive :/
...

If 'some' folks paid more attention to reports they would've noticed by now the ones claiming some thread necromancies here and there (this one included). ;p

[apostolos]

just another question on this topic; will the new Editor be able to testplay without having to Alt+Tab to the game, start the level, etc. etc. ?
It is possible in warcraft 3 so yes,it will be in SC2 too

[Protogod]

If 'some' folks paid more attention to reports they would've noticed by now the ones claiming some thread necromancies here and there (this one included). ;p

lazy, deal with it.

[Basan]

I may sound a lil' prickish by answering but wasn't the "spam crackdown" (http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?t=37151) somewhat aimed to keep/show that you're more active? Although not directly tied this seems to be helluva contradicting. :P Moreover if you consider our PM exchange regarding this same matter.

[Protogod]

I may sound a lil' prickish by answering but wasn't the "spam crackdown" (http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?t=37151) somewhat aimed to keep/show that you're more active? Although not directly tied this seems to be helluva contradicting. :P Moreover if you consider our PM exchange regarding this same matter.

IF you consider our PM exchange, you'll realize that I had no part in that farce of staff-intervention.

[Basan]

IF you consider our PM exchange, you'll realize that I had no part in that farce of staff-intervention.

Although staff should always look united I understand your angle of it since the in the previous spam march I didn't act any different from my old usual self while moderating. And you know why, because I always tried to act on a constant manner. :) If it's wrong and the user knows why then there's no need to sugar coat our approach to the matter. :P

[Sikawtic]

It could work, it just wouldn't be worth the effort (the maps would be half-assed anyway... the 3d engine will be more powerful.)

Just rebuild rebuild rebuild.

I do hope they keep the editor relatively simple, but flexible.

[DarkMirror]

It would NOT be possible! The engines used to make the maps are not the same! It cant be done!

[NoobOfLore]

@DM, that has already been decided.

About the ease, but flexibility of the map editor...What aspects in particular are you looking for when you say "flexible"

[Dawg116]

It would NOT be possible! The engines used to make the maps are not the same! It cant be done!
That's a pretty naive viewpoint. Obviously the SC2 engine can't open SC1 maps, but if somebody at Blizzard or in the community took time to make a converter there's no reason it couldn't work. What are triggers after all if not basic "if then" statements? Granted, converting the terrain can't be easy and the entire project itself might not be worth the effort. :p

[DarkMirror]

I'm positive that both Blizzard said themselves that there will be no conversion possibility and that the programs themselves are not compatible. Thus, stop being retarded and accept that you'll all have to start from scratch.

[SilverCrusader]

That's a pretty naive viewpoint. Obviously the SC2 engine can't open SC1 maps, but if somebody at Blizzard or in the community took time to make a converter there's no reason it couldn't work. What are triggers after all if not basic "if then" statements? Granted, converting the terrain can't be easy and the entire project itself might not be worth the effort. :p
It isn't naive, it is true. The SC2 map editor does not and cannot read SC1 map data. Even if in some weird way it could, the SC2 map editor couldn't edit anything. And yet even if you did somehow edit it, the StarCraft engine would crash because you put data in that it doesn't know how to read.
Therefore, it is impossible to use the SC2 editor to edit SC1 maps.

[Protogod]

This is fucking retarded. It's been stated numerous times that Blizzard is not and has no intention to include an SC1 map converter, due to the difficulty involved.

Anyone who still disagrees after this is an idiot.

[Dawg116]

It isn't naive, it is true. The SC2 map editor does not and cannot read SC1 map data. Even if in some weird way it could, the SC2 map editor couldn't edit anything. And yet even if you did somehow edit it, the StarCraft engine would crash because you put data in that it doesn't know how to read.
Therefore, it is impossible to use the SC2 editor to edit SC1 maps.
Yeah, but that's not stopping anybody from making a separate program/plug-in that converts the file.

This is fucking retarded. It's been stated numerous times that Blizzard is not and has no intention to include an SC1 map converter, due to the difficulty involved.
Where has that been stated? I've never seen any kind of announcement like that. Obviously it's difficult, but it would be alot easier for Blizzard to do it than us - they created the .chk format. They also mentioned that they plan to continue improving the editor. They don't have the resources to make a converter now, but why not after the game comes out?

I really doubt they will do that - but I don't want to hear that it's impossible.

[Protogod]

Where has that been stated? I've never seen any kind of announcement like that. Then you should really pay closer attention to Blizzard press releases, shouldn't you? It is in no way my fault that you are ignorant on this topic. Obviously it's difficult, but it would be alot easier for Blizzard to do it than us - they created the .chk format. They also mentioned that they plan to continue improving the editor. They don't have the resources to make a converter now, but why not after the game comes out? because there is little to no benefit for the ridiculously immense amount of work it would take.

[DarkMirror]

I really doubt they will do that - but I don't want to hear that it's impossible.Then GTFO of here, because it is impossible. The file types are not compatible in the slightest. SC ran on a tile system, where everything was just a chunk of pixels that may or may not be built on. SC2 uses three dimensional models.

Totally impossible.

[Dawg116]

Then you should really pay closer attention to Blizzard press releases, shouldn't you? It is in no way my fault that you are ignorant on this topic.
Can I have a link then?

because there is little to no benefit for the ridiculously immense amount of work it would take.
I'm not disagreeing with you there. ;P

Then GTFO of here, because it is impossible. The file types are not compatible in the slightest. SC ran on a tile system, where everything was just a chunk of pixels that may or may not be built on. SC2 uses three dimensional models.
Honestly, you're dense if you don't get the point by now. StarCraft 2 maps are structurally similar to StarCraft maps - same cliffs & ramps & whatnot. You'd have to rebuild a SC2 map manually by picking out SC tiles and converting them to their equivalent sc2 version. If you can't wrap your head around that maybe you should "GTFO".

[DarkMirror]

Three dimensional terrain is not the same as tiles that hold different values. Learn programming basics. Your basically saying that you could scan a drawing on a piece of paper and turn it into a three dimensional object. You cant. Too many things are not detailed in the paper to make a model of it.

And thats ignoring the fact that the programs themselves are different.

[Dawg116]

Three dimensional terrain is not the same as tiles that hold different values. Learn programming basics. Your basically saying that you could scan a drawing on a piece of paper and turn it into a three dimensional object. You cant. Too many things are not detailed in the paper to make a model of it.
You're assuming that the goal is to get 100% of the terrain & doodads converted. If you scan each tile one by one and see whether it's jungle, water, a cliff face or high jungle you can programatically make a basic model of the map - which would be fine for the basic functionality of the converter. Unfortunately, it's telling the difference between the square terrain that would be difficult.

And thats ignoring the fact that the programs themselves are different.
The file types are not compatible in the slightest.
What? That's like saying you can't convert an int to a char because they're also "not compatible". Completely absurd. Learn programming basics yourself. <_<

[NoobOfLore]

Woohoo flame wars.

@dawg, keep in mind that the new tilesets, more varied terrains, and simply removed items make this absurdly difficult. It's like saying you can convert a game of tetris into an SC2 map. Sure, if you assign each pixel a particular Value, and make something to make the individual data sets compatible, as well as implementing a rendering in 3d space.
So yes, it is possible, but it is no more practical than converting any video game into an SC2 map. Don't try to argue an absurdly minor detail that this thread is NOT about.
And also you can't "convert SC tiles to their SC2 equivalents," because SC2 is NOT TILE BASED.
@ DM, keep in mind that the possibility is still there, just recognize that it is extremely difficult, and not going to be implemented, and let him continue on his rant about how it's possible. We all get the point, and he'll look like an idiot for it.

[DarkMirror]

I also love the fact that SC and SC:BW colors are tileset-dependent, which means that about 90% of the things wouldn't be able to be assigned "jungle" or "desert" or "tree", since they change appearance depending on tileset.

[Dawg116]

So yes, it is possible, but it is no more practical than converting any video game into an SC2 map. Don't try to argue an absurdly minor detail that this thread is NOT about.
How is the implementation of a map importer not what this thread is about? Blizzard said they plan on continuing to improve scumedit.

And also you can't "convert SC tiles to their SC2 equivalents," because SC2 is NOT TILE BASED.
Once again, that's like saying you can't convert an int to a char because they're also "not compatible". Why is it so hard to understand that I'm speaking abstractly?

I also love the fact that SC and SC:BW colors are tileset-dependent, which means that about 90% of the things wouldn't be able to be assigned "jungle" or "desert" or "tree", since they change appearance depending on tileset.
Yeah so it will be difficult - what else is new? If you ever bothered to look at the tileset index you'd see that all the cliffs,water and ground tiles are grouped together. It's not like you'll have to scan every single tile for every single tileset.

We all get the point, and he'll look like an idiot for it.
My bad. I must have touched on a sore issue - since everyone in this thread is getting their pantys in a wad for no apparent reason. I apologize that this subject offends you all. Maybe next time instead of trying to open your minds to new possiblities, I'll just go along with the crowd mentality here and keep repeating "it's not possible".

[DarkMirror]

For the last time, Blizzard themselves stated there will be no converter for turning SC maps into SC2 maps. Drop it!

[Basan]

How is the implementation of a map importer not what this thread is about? Blizzard said they plan on continuing to improve scumedit.

Just for the record "continuing to improve scumedit" isn't the same as making a converter from SC-BW into the SC2 map file format.

Once again, that's like saying you can't convert an int to a char because they're also "not compatible". Why is it so hard to understand that I'm speaking abstractly?

"Abstractly", I can speak about anything I want. In case you didn't knew that's the difference between facts and phylosophy. :rolleyes:
And in this case facts tell me that converting the tilesets from a basic n' now crude format into a 3D environment would be terribly difficult to code.

Yeah so it will be difficult - what else is new? If you ever bothered to look at the tileset index you'd see that all the cliffs,water and ground tiles are grouped together. It's not like you'll have to scan every single tile for every single tileset.

As a matter of fact, if a converter was to be made all the SC-BW tilesets n' doodads would have to be scanned to be matched into the new 3D format. A whole lot of trouble if you ask me just for a conversion. Wouldn't it be much simpler if you remade the map(s) you want in the SC2 editor instead?

My bad. I must have touched on a sore issue - since everyone in this thread is getting their pantys in a wad for no apparent reason. I apologize that this subject offends you all. Maybe next time instead of trying to open your minds to new possiblities, I'll just go along with the crowd mentality here and keep repeating "it's not possible".

We welcome new ideas and we're open to debate'em whenever they arise. But then we must consider as well that there's also the reasonability level and after seeing you try to 'shove' your way through even when Blizz' clearly stated in one of those batches that they won't be making one due to the difficulty matching those two totally missmatching systems, it gets somewhat tireing n' aggravating. :shiftyl:

[Dawg116]

For the last time, Blizzard themselves stated there will be no converter for turning SC maps into SC2 maps. Drop it!
I will once I have a link. Shouldn't be a problem to find me a link since they have stated it "numerous times".

Just for the record "continuing to improve scumedit" isn't the same as making a converter from SC-BW into the SC2 map file format.
The point is that there is the possibility of the editor having user-made plug-ins and the possibility that Blizzard might make a converter after SC2 comes out.

And in this case facts tell me that converting the tilesets from a basic n' now crude format into a 3D environment would be terribly difficult to code.
For us, definitely. But Blizzard knows the file formats of SC & SC2 maps in and out. Programmers are used to working on tough projects.

As a matter of fact, if a converter was to be made all the SC-BW tilesets n' doodads would have to be scanned to be matched into the new 3D format.
They can scan the doodads and ignore them - it's not like SC2 will have all the doodads from StarCraft anyway. The terrain doesn't have to be perfect - if they can even get the basic layout of the terrain that would be great. After that's done, the project only gets easier.

[DarkMirror]

Seeing as "less informed" people will continue to bring this up, I suggest deleting the thread, or at least locking it.