Complicated Guild Question

[GenocideAlive]

So for those of you that have been involved in major guilds, you've been made aware of how easily simple things blow up into huge drama. Not only can these simple things interfere with the smoothness of guild occurrences, they can also go as far as to break up the guild. It's appropriately tagged "drama" rather than "stupid BS" possibly due only to the fact of its consequences.

That said, I am having an issue with my current guild. I've been in IKON as a friend, while they were in T6 content, and I've been in complete loser guilds. Ironically they tended to be on opposite sides of the totem poles in both skill and friendliness. This guild falls somewhere in between, with a nice balance of some skilled players and some nice players.

When I first went to join, I had a major roadblock in a player named Depp, whom I ran ZA with at one point. We had wiped on one of the bosses, and myself and another guy were running back. The guy ahead of me triggered spawns when he wasn't paying attention, and they wiped the raid. The raid was super pissed, and they thought it was me. I was cool about it, and calmly denied it. Then about 25s later, he did it again. The raid was doing a lot of yelling and eventually I ended up all caps typing in raid chat: IT WAS NOT ME, IT WAS AKERI. I DID NOT AGGRO ANYTHING.

Well Akeri and Depp were friends, and Depp was leading the run. He was also an officer in the guild. So when I applied to the guild, I was denied for unclear reasons several times. Then he finally quit in a huff over something else, unrelated. I was accepted into the guild a day later, as I have several friends in the guild already.

When I first joined, the leader was a cold bitch to me. She first saw me in the Gruul run and made some asinine remark in vent to the entire raid to the effect of "Wow, Profesorpain is in the guild. We're just letting anybody in now, aren't we?" Then one of the other guys in the guild sent her a tell saying "chill", and she responded on vent "No I'm not going to chill, he's trash". Then later she made some rude remark about ressing when the party wiped. I never spoke to her or responded to her, as I didn't want to have to deal with the drama. Turns out she was being a bitch because of shit she had heard from Depp.

Later, I was dealing with some loser on General Chat of SSO who was making such asinine remarks as "it's so easy to upset people, they freak out over WoW, it's so dumb" and was basically going on being a prick and playing up the whole kekeke itz game lawl lulz. I eventually ignored him. One of my guildies proceeded to start acting as a go-between in guild chat to try to get a rise out of me. I squelched him. He quit in a huff over something else unrelated not long ago.

Fast forward to today. I just found out that my RL friend is going to quit with half of our current Core Raiders, and form a new guild. They are including all the pricks who quit in a huff earlier because they have this machismo badass thing going on that they think is so cool. I think as of this writing I have already realized I have no intention of going with them.

However, since, the guild leader has definitely warmed up to me and has done me a few (minor) favors. I have taken from the guild bank and participated in raiding several times. I'm now feeling caught between a rock and a hard place, from letting this guild leader know that she's going to be betrayed by these guys, to just letting things play out as is, and letting her suffer.

Thoughts?

[ScottieIWU]

I'd say tell. Only because their guild will most likely fail. Unless someone in that group is an exceptionally strong leader with enough RL capital to fund and maintain vent servers/website, that guild will not last long. In-game voice chat is barely worth having, and most free websites turn out to be shit, look unprofessional, and do not attract quality players.

It's far better to get some people a little pissy at you than you let a T6 guild potentially die to stupid shit.

[GenocideAlive]

But what will telling this person do? She can't FORCE them to stay, they can leave if she wishes. I guess in essence, it might give her a chance to find replacements for raiding, but otherwise I don't see her in a position of power to boot these people without ruining the guild anyway. Especially since a lot of these guys are core raiders. You can't exactly boot your MT and keep going.

I get the feeling that this whole thing would end with someone walking away with the guild bank. :(

[WarInSerbia]

It always ends up with the guild bank gone :/

Just ignore the guild fights
Or just find another guild

[RavenCrusade]

Tell her, it's better than suffering.
I know where you are, I've been in twenty or so guild break ups in only this year I've been playing. The way I see it is you can tell her to make an announcement that the guild bank is going to be cleaned/sorted, and is temporarily locked. Then, when they leave, unlock it.
Best thing I can come up with. If there's anything I've learned it's that you can't stop people leaving.

Infact, at the moment I'm leading what was to be a ressurection guild, but I'm one of the only two members that joined it.

[Neo]

Tell her. I would also suggest that you ask her to restrict everyones bank access during/until the split occurs, because as I understand it, Blizzard (GMs) don't give a shit about anything like that that occurs, unless it's a huge major guild.

Also, personally, I like to stick things out, but if the guild really is that filled with drama, screw them and leave first. I would still mention whats going to happen to her first though -- it's not fair to leave her out of it, especially if it's going to compeltely blind side her.

Drama is fucking bullshit anywhere, to be honest, and I dislike being in the middle of it. I normally end up the one being bitched at by both sides, but by that point I've disengaged myself from both as well.

Guilds can be easy to come by anyway, and if you're skilled, then I'd be surprised if you couldn't get in one.

Personally I'd've left after the shitty vent comments. That's bullshit, no way to lead a guild or a raid.

for the record I might be a noob at wow, but this kind of shit is what I hate about other people.

-Neo

[Geno]

I haven't been in a major guild break up, but I can say I know from a guild recruitment standpoint that any major previous drama guilds, I have to do more research. If you plan on doing more raiding down the line, you'll have to state your reason for leaving a guild, or merging to another guild.

Realize that whatever choice is made here will control your future to some lesser extent with other guilds. I've denied applicants to a previous guild before because of a drama-filled history. Including (but not limited to) - Massive breakups of good guilds for "unclear" reasons (IE: I hated them, they hated me, we split with 30% of the old guild -> I read "We had a clique and wanted our own way, which means you're a goddamn drama queen), guild bank ninja'ing (Or potential ninja'ing), word of mouth reputation (IE: I hear from a current guildmate whom I trust 'He was in a run with xxxx and yyyy, and during the run, he flipped out because he died once' or such, I'd not deal with it), and the like.

Seriously, consider what the future could bring if you tell or don't tell - In the long run, though, you'll find it in your favor to say something to keep yourself clean and be sure to try and salvage a guild. Even if it breaks up, you can say on an application "I heard of a guild breakup incoming, so I attempted to save it. Sadly it wasn't, and I didn't want to be part of a massive drama split. I left without staying in the current guild, nor moving to the new one."

Not to mention, from a guild standpoint, trying to salvage a guild that worked in the past is better than trying to reform a new guild. Having to promote multiple officers, raid leaders, loot council (If needed), setting up DKP (If applicable), setting ranks, getting raid times setup, figuring out class demand, and what your 'normal' raid makeup would be... There's about 2-3 weeks of work in getting a guild "Operational" before a full 25 person raid can go without a hitch. If you don't say a thing, you're looking at the new guild following this plan, while your current one goes on a raiding hiatus or just completely disbanding while you hunt for a new guild, or watch as instance ID's rot in your face.




TL : DR version: Tell her. It'll work in both yours and your guild's favor.

~Larry "The Bug" Meyers

[Neo]

side note: Geno ur a dr00d, awesome.

been considering making a new druid.

-Neo

[ScottieIWU]

I haven't been in a major guild break up, but I can say I know from a guild recruitment standpoint that any major previous drama guilds, I have to do more research. If you plan on doing more raiding down the line, you'll have to state your reason for leaving a guild, or merging to another guild.

Realize that whatever choice is made here will control your future to some lesser extent with other guilds. I've denied applicants to a previous guild before because of a drama-filled history. Including (but not limited to) - Massive breakups of good guilds for "unclear" reasons (IE: I hated them, they hated me, we split with 30% of the old guild -> I read "We had a clique and wanted our own way, which means you're a goddamn drama queen), guild bank ninja'ing (Or potential ninja'ing), word of mouth reputation (IE: I hear from a current guildmate whom I trust 'He was in a run with xxxx and yyyy, and during the run, he flipped out because he died once' or such, I'd not deal with it), and the like.

Seriously, consider what the future could bring if you tell or don't tell - In the long run, though, you'll find it in your favor to say something to keep yourself clean and be sure to try and salvage a guild. Even if it breaks up, you can say on an application "I heard of a guild breakup incoming, so I attempted to save it. Sadly it wasn't, and I didn't want to be part of a massive drama split. I left without staying in the current guild, nor moving to the new one."

Not to mention, from a guild standpoint, trying to salvage a guild that worked in the past is better than trying to reform a new guild. Having to promote multiple officers, raid leaders, loot council (If needed), setting up DKP (If applicable), setting ranks, getting raid times setup, figuring out class demand, and what your 'normal' raid makeup would be... There's about 2-3 weeks of work in getting a guild "Operational" before a full 25 person raid can go without a hitch. If you don't say a thing, you're looking at the new guild following this plan, while your current one goes on a raiding hiatus or just completely disbanding while you hunt for a new guild, or watch as instance ID's rot in your face.I have to say, you'd be the first person I've ever run into who, in the face of recruitment, actually looked seriously at guild history. Sure, most guilds look for the obvious signs of someone who causes problems (and they ARE generally easy to spot) but I feel like most of the time, people just look for how far a guild is via WoWJutsu or whatever.

However, your latter poitns about getting a guild operational are 100% true. If those people are serious about splitting, they better hope they get that shit right, and fast, or they'll be the last ones on that sinking ship, wishing they are the rats who they see swimming away.

[GenocideAlive]

Meh, I may have subconsciously sabatoged my position there by attacking my class leader's credibility. It's really weird how the mind works. Otherwise, it's not like he didn't deserve it, he's a Shadowbolt Destruction Warlock that had 13 points in fire talents and wouldn't hear anything in dissent of his high opinion. Of course the other officers came running to his defense, with such shining gems as "we're friends", "he pays for his own spec changes", and "he helped the guild progress to not-Vashj, not-Kael status...". So basically, "we like him and he helped us overcome such challenges as the boss nicknamed 'Loot Reaver'".

My RL friend is rapidly waning from my favor, as he's in the habit of leaving my toons with their armor and shit broken after he borrows them to do things. Then he promises gold that he never sends to fix it after I bring it up, then he pretends he forgot. Though really this is nothing new, he has terrible problems managing his RL money (he borrows money from people to pay for WoW), and he has no priorities or goals in life. He says he wants to get his Bachelor's, but his grades were Cs and Ds, and he got disciplined in the Army for lack of attendance. He's 22 and he lives at home with his mom. So...probably not too surprising that we're not really getting along.

[OboeGuru]

I always have a good chuckle when it comes to T6 guilds. Every single high-progression guild I've been a part of has been the same... 2/3 of the guild act like whiny kids with their own special cliques (or complete lack thereof), are so completely self-absorbed that the world should revolve around them and their opinions and how they feel, and often log off or quit in huffy "omg you all fucking hate me!!!1!1!! T_T (//_-)" manners. Yours doesn't sound too much different, sadly.

Anyhow, the quick and easy answer from me is that the best thing to do would be to notify the Guild Leader of a possible split coming up, so that steps could be taken to reconcile the differences responsible for it becoming a potentiality. Or, of course, the people wishing to split may be so unreasonable that they don't want to talk and would leave right then and there. Good riddance to bad rubbish being the sentiment to follow in the case of the latter. Either way, dragging out drama is only going to hurt the guild and its membership in the long run, so I see nipping it in the bud to be the only feasible course to take.

$cents+2;

Geno, you have a way with words, as always. I fully agree with what you've said. Even if it was TLDR. ;)