The Olympic Torch goes through London

[Nostradamus]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44544000/jpg/_44544014_huq_getty300.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7332942.stm


This was absolutely ridiculous. I empathise completely with the people of Tibet and I understand their actions today completely. I just cannot get over the way the Police have treated these protestors. Beatings were handed out just for being in the path, in one case an ITV cameraman was kicked to the ground.

It would appear that you could have committed any crime in London today as the entire Metropolitan police were appeared to be guarding the flame. Protestors and innocent standbyers were treated with more brutality than knife-wielders or drug dealers.

I just simply cannot get over the shambles that this was and today is a day that I feel ashamed to be British.

[SilverCrusader]

People do stupid things. Thats all there is to it.

[3Vee]

Link's not working?

[singo]

I just simply cannot get over the shambles that this was and today is a day that I feel ashamed to be British.

Personally, it made me proud. In almost any other country in the world odds are people would have been shot. In Britain, a bunch of lunatics trying to nick something off a parade (when its carried by a former childrens TV presenter at that) is practically expected.


And after the 80s, when protests turned into riots left, right and centre I think a strong police presence is most definately required.


And I would be willing to bet that most of the "protesters" dont even know where Tibet IS and were just there to take part in a demonstration anyway.

[DoctorZettabyte]

Next up is Paris, where police and security forces have been tightened in light of the recent London protests.

Source. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080407/ap_on_sp_ol/olympic_torch)

-DocTera

[femoimal]

I am appalled.

The british government, after the french and the german, shows how low can it go in order to lick China's arse, just stepping on people's dignity and freedom to express themselves. As two thousand of bloody policemen treated human rights protesters as rioters (for Ghandi's sake), and trampled upon man's brotherhood cry for freedom, all that's important is how to behave in order not to jeopardize 2012's olympics. What a puke. And i won't even talk about UK governments

Imagine, if they treat that kind of protests as low-level terrorism, how will they deal when people take on the streets to protest against their own government ?

Silvercrusader, your post is a splendid illustration of itself. Treat human rights abuse and police state as stupid things and you are just a short step away from orwelilan nightmare. History is full of stupid things indeed: black sunday, tien-an-men, soviet tanks rolling over protesters... Is all we should do is shrug ?

Singo, Its a great deed to compare yourself with Uzbekistan, North Korea, Kazakhstan or Bielorussia. We can all be proud of not having public hangings of human rights protesters, hurrah!
A bunch of lunatics ? Sure, let's sterilize them, cordon them out with police and even castrate those who cry for freedom, not even for themselves, but for people they will never see or depend on. You want to burn humanism on an iron cross !
Bet as you want about ignorance amongst human rights protesters, i would not bet a single penny on somebody else's.

Wake up guys. We are on an authoritarian slippery slope. And its creeping upon us if we shrug or request control.

Where's the rage ?

[SilverCrusader]

They are idiots because they knew there was going to be a police force there.

Being an athlete myself I certainly don't like people simply trying to ruin a great ceremony just because it was going to be hosted in China. It is a world event. I don't agree with China's methods either. They shouldn't worry about their image. They should worry about their people. If they took care of their people they wouldn't have to try and take care of their image.
The Olympic Games could open up China's doors and help them become on friendly terms with the rest of the world.

[femoimal]

the olympic games are going to do nothing without many idiots protesting all around the globe. If we do not bring shame to the chinese, you expect the Communist Party and the Central Comity to suddenly become sensitive?

Sure, the olympics with their zillions of dollars of sponsorships and the gruesome use of advertising and brand building, tons of dope, obscene indifference for human rights are an athletic spectacle to behold. The olympics were a symbol of peace. If we cannot put pressure on our governments to get a little dignity up from the gutter and pressure in turn the chinese with economic leverage (the only one the chinese acknowledge), then the olympics are of no use.

The chinese want to use the olympics to improve their image and get money, that's all. We should use the same olympics to press for an improvement of the chinese people. Not that i expect anything from that, but its humane, and humanist, to try so. A sports festivity is so much beautiful when its about freedom too.

I only tremble when i think of what you would say about the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

[Nostradamus]

I think SilverCrusader's posts are a perfect example of the attitudes of many people "If it stops my mindless TV viewing I hate it, gives gives a fuck about human rights issues, I need my idiot box fix".

Femoimal is spot on by stating that the Olympics is a symbol of peace and therefore it is ludicrous to host it in a nation that does not give peace to it's 'citizens'.

[singo]

The chinese want to use the olympics to improve their image and get money, that's all.

And I dont, because I am not China. I want the Olymics to be sporting event, end of.


I only tremble when i think of what you would say about the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

About the same, because in 1936 I would not have the benifit of hindsight would I?


Sure, let's sterilize them, cordon them out with police and even castrate those who cry for freedom, not even for themselves, but for people they will never see or depend on. You want to burn humanism on an iron cross !

Reasonably sure I never said any of that. The "bunch of lunatics" is what I think of people who go out of their way to provoke the police to get a bit of publicity.

The odd thing is that the PRO-China protest didnt start any fights or try and steal anything (and correspondingly was not in the news). I dont like the Chinese government and sympathise with the Tibetans over this, but I wont agree with causing disturbances in uninvolved countries jsut to get air-time.

As two thousand of bloody policemen treated human rights protesters as rioters

As two thousand bloody protesters treated the police as scum rather than people who do a fantastic job and get no damn thanks for it.


Bet as you want about ignorance amongst human rights protesters,

I will, there was a protest in Liverpool a few years ago over something or other and the protesters went around local pubs at lunchtime trying to recruit half-cut students into something they didnt care about. And mostly succeeded, which is what really irks me.

[Nephi]

US and UK are too dependent upon China's foreign investments to even give the xenophobic nation a bloody nose, it just simply will not happen.

If the people of Tibet want independence let them take it, so far they've just trashed their own country, and persecuted Chinese immigrants. Its a messy situation all around. They need formal organization. And the Chinese police/military need to show some restraint/respect.

[Nostradamus]

The odd thing is that the PRO-China protest didnt start any fights or try and steal anything (and correspondingly was not in the news). I dont like the Chinese government and sympathise with the Tibetans over this, but I wont agree with causing disturbances in uninvolved countries jsut to get air-time.


But the fact of the matter is that there wasn't a need for a PRO China protest. China already has the upper hand. Besides, how would you react to a PRO Nazi, or a PRO KKK, or a PRO Mugabe street event (I have deliberately not used the word protest as a protest can only be against something. This therefore means that the action taken by the Chinese was nothing less than them taunting the Tibetans.

[singo]

Besides, how would you react to a PRO Nazi, or a PRO KKK, or a PRO Mugabe street event (I have deliberately not used the word protest as a protest can only be against something. This therefore means that the action taken by the Chinese was nothing less than them taunting the Tibetans.


I wouldnt like it and I would probably hurl abuse at my TV, but this freedom of speech thing is great isnt it?

The point I was making is that the "good guys" here were the ones abusing that freedom, which does not do anyone any good.

[femoimal]

the issue here is not really the right to express oneself. Its about the difference between hooligans, extreme-rights protesters, skin-heads, an angry mob in Zimbabwe, armed militias in Baghdad and human rights protesters.

Those last protest to better humanity and to no benefit to themselves. They might be vociferous, but they do not trash stuff. To have them treated like a menace, like dirt is simply inane. Except of course if your name is Pinochet, Marcos, Hoxja or Putin. That's what we should take as example to compare ourselves. And we are not faring brilliantly.

Is trying to draw attention on the farcical hypocrisy of the West abusing the right to speech ? I doubt so. When the Olympic Comity gave the Games to China, it solemnly stated that it was tied with human rights progress in China. Sure. Look at all those ex-political prisoners dancing the lambada in Tien-en-men square singing "a working class Hero is something to be".

Olympics are NEVER just a sporting event. its a huge propaganda machine, even more so today with modern telecommunications than it was the previous century. In 1936, Hitler wanted it to be the proof of the superiority of the Aryan race. He did not shake hands with black american winners, he just left the place. Then, the Moscow games, boycotted. The israeli sportsmen taken by palestinian armed men. The Greece Olympics... Its always nothing short of a strategic geopolitical coup.

What are the positive side-effects of the Games ? Look at the Seoul games, did that unite both Koreas ? no. The games on Moscow defused the cold war ? No. What did the Atlanta games achieve ? Did the Mexico games change anything ? Greece is up to its neck in debts. I could go on...

Besides being an orgy of chemical products turning athletes into cancer-ridden one-use-mechanics, the games could, only if we let them, be about HUMAN beings meeting and talking, running.
But that will never happen in the Kingdom of Marketing-Managers, Security-Forces and Sheepish Masses.

[GenocideAlive]

Personally, I feel heartened that people protest in light of these conditions. I have no earthly idea why the Olympic Committee assented to hosting the games in the world's largest prison. Bravo to London, and bravo to Paris. I only hope that we make an equally significant demonstration. It makes me proud to be a Westerner, in a small way.

However, In no uncertain terms, these people are attempting to hijack public ceremony. This is obviously of concern to the police, for good reason. That they were beaten, etc. I believe has been embellished in some regards. You really shouldn't be able to bodily throw yourself at people in order to harangue them, but of course the protesters think that it's justifiable (it's not). Throwing water, however, is not punishable by any means and an excellent idea.

As far as "I'm an athlete, dur dur dur", get a grip. You're not a fucking Olympic athlete, you're some dumbass that plays kickball with other retards. You halfass posted and got burned, don't throw bullshit credentials out there to justify your lame behavior. There's a reason you're banned from the IR, and it has nothing to do with your supposed athleticism.

[singo]

the issue here is not really the right to express oneself. Its about the difference between hooligans, extreme-rights protesters, skin-heads, an angry mob in Zimbabwe, armed militias in Baghdad and human rights protesters.

I know. There is a whole world of difference.

But attacking the procession and trying to steal the Olympic torch is not a legitimate way to express a greivance. By all means hurl abuse and wave placards, thats all to the good, but acting like an utter berk by trying to nick the thing doesnt endear someone to the populace now does it?

[femoimal]

although i agree to a point to what you say singo, i still smile when thinking at some protester extinguishing the darn thing by urinating on it.

In Paris, a democratically elected vice-mayor or something got arrested because she tried to blow out the flame with an extinguisher. That's what I call balls. She got arrested. I'm proud of being a frog !

Hope the whole thing builds momentum and becomes intolerable to the chinese rulers. Ah, those fun-loving chinese democrats, its really so unfair.

Find me a law where blowing a flame is an offense :D

Did you know that the flame ritual was invented in 1936 by Herr Goebbels ? Yeah, so try and sell me the sports event crap, now, I dare you.

[SilverCrusader]

As far as "I'm an athlete, dur dur dur", get a grip. You're not a fucking Olympic athlete, you're some dumbass that plays kickball with other retards. You halfass posted and got burned, don't throw bullshit credentials out there to justify your lame behavior. There's a reason you're banned from the IR, and it has nothing to do with your supposed athleticism.
I'm glad I'm banned from the IR. My beliefs and lack of scientific knowledge got me in trouble one too many times.

I'm not even going to start on the kickball comment.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you when you leave athletics out of the Olympic Games. The Olympic games are supposed to be about athletics and the best of the best in the world go head to head. Credentials? If I trained hard for four years for these Olympic games and some idiot has decided that they think I shouldn't be there, I would be pissed as hell. Whether they go or not should be up to the athletes, not up to some political activist.

[Nostradamus]

I'm glad I'm banned from the IR. My beliefs and lack of scientific knowledge got me in trouble one too many times.

I'm not even going to start on the kickball comment.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you when you leave athletics out of the Olympic Games. The Olympic games are supposed to be about athletics and the best of the best in the world go head to head. Credentials? If I trained hard for four years for these Olympic games and some idiot has decided that they think I shouldn't be there, I would be pissed as hell. Whether they go or not should be up to the athletes, not up to some political activist.

But it isn't up to the athletes.

[SilverCrusader]

Just saying it should be.

[Nostradamus]

No with your post you were saying that it is up to the athletes and that they categorically do not give a shit about whether people care about human rights issues.

[singo]

although i agree to a point to what you say singo, i still smile when thinking at some protester extinguishing the darn thing by urinating on it.

Damn, didnt see that bit, :D fantastic.



Did you know that the flame ritual was invented in 1936 by Herr Goebbels ? Yeah, so try and sell me the sports event crap, now, I dare you.

Yes I did, and just because one tossrod decided to try and get a political advantage out of something doesnt mean it can't be about sport now that him and his likeminded maniacs are all safely dead.

[SilverCrusader]

No with your post you were saying that it is up to the athletes and that they categorically do not give a shit about whether people care about human rights issues.
Well then I need to work on my communication skills.

[femoimal]

singo ? Hitler, dead ? Man, he is alive and (almost) well, and playing Bridge with Bruce Lee, Elvis Presley and JF Kennedy !

By the way, as a personal note, what thing did you train in, crusader ? (and for what country, dare i ask?). I personally feel a bit sorry for the athletes that have to be doped or dropped out.

Still, much remains to be said about the modern symbolics of the Games.

[SilverCrusader]

Nono, I don't have enough natural talent to go the Olympics, esp. at my age. But I train hard simply because I love training. I'm an endurance athlete, and I train all year round.
Being as such I know what it feels like to train hard for something just to find out you can't do it. Like training intensely hard over a summer, but then you find out your family is moving (I'm in high school mind you), and have to wait a whole year before you can participate in athletics again.
Olympic athletes are my heroes. Their people with either insanely strong minds or an extreme natural talent, usually both.
I can tell you that Steve Prefontaine, was absolutely pissed when they wouldn't let him run against the best runner in Russia after losing to him in the Olympics because of the cold war. Sadly enough, he died only a few days before he would of ran against him, and most likely beaten him, confirming him to to be the fastest endurance runner ever.

EDIT:
And if you read the latest CNN article it doesn't seem like China is getting the picture. They think any act against them is a despicable one and you simply want to destroy everything. I guess their just blind to everything all around them.
Advisor- "Oh noez, all of China is protesting!"
Leader- "How despicable! This is an act to destroy the Chinese image!"
Advisor- "Well you did state that the Chinese people are merely slaves.."

[GenocideAlive]

The Olympic Games are about athletes like war is about killing.

[Darmago]

If the torch were to be run through Denver, I'd be there, mini-extinguisher in hand.

[Magmaniac]

The Olympic Games are about athletes like war is about killing.

The olympic games are about athletes like THE SNOZBERRIES TASTE LIKE SNOZBERRIES.