I suck at this game.

[Shrub]

See the latest post please xD

First of all, let me tell you about something that happenned only 10 minutes ago when I was playing as the Terrans.

(READ ALL PLEASE)

I started up a new 256x256 map so that I would have time to build up my base, disabled all but one computer enemy, which I chose to be Zerg, and prepared myself.
Phew, okay, this time I was going to win!
I set my SCVs onto the minerals, and put another one into production.
I proceeded to make a few more SCVs and let them mine away at the minerals, before making a Barracks and one marine.
Some time passed, and before long I have 3 SCVs extracting Vespene Gas, a factory, a starport, three firebats and a few more marines, one Siege tank and a Goliath.
With a Goliath and a Siege Tank I would surely be able to hold out!
Right?
Ah, that was when I decided to set my Siege tank roughly in the middle of all my buildings in Siege Mode.
That way, when the Zerg approached, the tank would be able to blast away at them from a distance.
Hmm, the Science Facility was done.
Soon I would be able to make Ghosts if all went well.
Although, there was one thing on my mind which bothered me - the inevitable attack from my AI opponent.
This is something I always feel when I play Starcraft.
See, I've never won.
Never.
I knew, deep down, that my forces wouldn't be enough.
That the enemy would overwhelm me, and my troops would be annihilated.
They were coming - it was only a matter of seonds now.
I set another Siege Tank into production and took a look at what stuff I could build.
Suddenly, a horde of Zerglings and Hydralisks appeared on my screen, attacking everything.
GOLIATHS! MARINES! FIREBATS! SIEGE TANK! ALL OF YOU, ATTACK THOSE SUCKERS!
Oh... Bye bye, troops.
The masses of Hydralisks spun round and started spewing acid all over them.

Marines - Dead.
Firebats - Dead.
Goliaths - Hey, why is there blood and metal on the floor where my Goliaths were? - Dead.
Siege Tank - Going... going... dead.

Oh, look, my base was being torn apart by the Zerg.
*Screenshot*
I quit, and now here I am, telling all of you about my failure at Starcraft Brood Wars.

I've read strategy guides and stuff, but I still can't win. Or even survive the first attack.
All I need is time, but I can never accumulate enough troops and still have enough resources for buildings in time to counter the enemy rush. :cry:

Did you start out like this? And if so, how did you improve?
And can I lower the difficulty of my opponent so that I can get better without dying every match?

Help is appreciated.

[anderoo]

You need to use certain unit combinations.

i.e. Build several barracks and an academy, and start pumping out lots of marines, with a few medics to support each group

Make a comsat scanner at your command centre so that you can detect enemy lurkers, and buy the marine range and stim upgrades from the academy.

Run over the enemy.

Keep massing up marines and medics until you beat the computer every time,once you get bored with doing the same thing every time, elaborate.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Suck it up. Everyone sucked at some point.

[neobowman]

He know's that. He's asking how to get better. My suggestion is to look for the basic unit combonations. Also it seems you tech up wayyyy too fast. See if you do, the enemy will have the unit advantage and will overrun you. First off, Lurkers>marines medics and firebats. Tanks>Lurkers. Zerglings>Tanks. Marines medics and firebats>Zerglings. This is one of the main unit combinations in online games. However, the computer will generally not follow it. I suggest massing up marines and medics, making from at LEAST 2 barracks if you have one base (I'm talking early game) You should have at least 16 marines and medics. Zerglings will run and try to kill u and they will get toast quickly. Zerg will have their lurkers burrow but as soon as they start, move out of their range and hold position so zerglings will continue getting shredded. The as the lurkers unburrow, kill them. Rinse and repeat.

[Ling666]

Also it seems you tech up wayyyy too fast.
Yeah, definately. That's probably the biggest problem right there.

Also, I didn't see any mention of you building medics. If you are playing broodwar, definately build medics. Your units will die way too fast if you don't have them, and with as little units as you had, it's going to be over fast. So just get medics and lots of units in general and you'd probably do better. Try not to tech too fast either.

[Shrub]

Wow thanks so much,this is really helpful.
I'll make sure that I don't tech too fast then, and I'll build some medics.
And that basic unit combination list will definitely help too.

I like the way with Starcraft you can learn from your mistakes and get better.
I'll have another go tomorrow, it's 22.08 here.
This is really helpful, thanks again for the tips!

[Shrub]

Sorry for DP but is there a site where I can see all the "rock paper scissors" type of stuff? Like, Zerglings beat tanks, tanks beat Lurkers, Lurkers beat...
you get the idea.
Is there a section on Starcraft.org?
Ty in advance.

Oh, and how to I alter my Map Settings to make AI opponents my allies?
'Cause when I do "Use Map Settings" it says
"Human Slots: 8"
"Computer Slots: 0"
So is this supposed to be used only for other real people?
Blaaagh, sorry for all the questions, it's just that you people seem to have infinite knowledge of this game, and I know so little about it.
Thanks!

[ForTheSwarm]

Use the set alliances trigger. I think the rock paper scissors stuff is in the game manual.

[Shrub]

And how do I use the set alliances trigger exactly?

[U-238]

Hey Shrub, welcome to warboards. Hope you enjoy your stay. :)

Sorry for DP but is there a site where I can see all the "rock paper scissors" type of stuff? Like, Zerglings beat tanks, tanks beat Lurkers, Lurkers beat...
you get the idea.
Is there a section on Starcraft.org?
Ty in advance.

There really isn't a set-in-stone guide like that. The main reason is, that certain combo's work well against some units but fail miserably against others. (even just the number of units can make a combo useful/useless)

Here are the very basic normalities for race v. race.

TvZ:

T = Marines and Medics as a "backbone" of sorts. Effective against most everything. (except lurkers/guardians and such) Add in some siege tanks (with siege mode) and even a spare vulture once in a while. (tanks are good for taking out lurkers as well as hydras/ultras)

Z = usually zerglings and either lurkers or mutas at first. They'll later switch to 'lings and either ultras or more lurkers. Either way they'll probably have defilers with darkswarm. (melee + darkswarm = very effective against marines and tanks)

TvT = Usually a "metal war" between tanks and goliaths and, sometimes, vultures. Whoever out-expands/out-gains/out-tactics the other is the winner.

TvP

T = Siege tanks and vultures at first. Later in the game you can bleed off some of the vultures in favor of goliaths if you see them going for carrier tech.

P = Zealots and Dragoons. Dark Templar and High Templar every once in a while. (DT because they're invisible and HT because of storm) Later on you'll probably want carriers if the game seems to be at a stale mate.

Those are the very basic combos used in games. (and I wrote those as if the games were human vs human. Computers play a little differently but, once you play them enough, they're very predictable)

And, I know you've probably been told this and I've told dozens of other people. Watch replays. They will do you good. Watch how quickly the players play but also note that they don't tech up too fast. Try mimicking some of their tactics. (some don't work well against computers though.) Go to places like www.teamliquid.net or sc.gosugamers.net. Both of these sites have huge databases of great replays that you can learn a lot from.

Oh, and how to I alter my Map Settings to make AI opponents my allies?
'Cause when I do "Use Map Settings" it says
"Human Slots: 8"
"Computer Slots: 0"
So is this supposed to be used only for other real people?
Blaaagh, sorry for all the questions, it's just that you people seem to have infinite knowledge of this game, and I know so little about it.
Thanks!

Well, the only way you can really do that (outside of making your own map) is to go into Multiplayer>Local Area Network(UDP) and create a "Top vs. Bottom" game. Here you can add computers as your allies. I should warn you that its just like playing a battle.net game. (no cheats :P)

[neobowman]

Might as well go to youtube and search SlayerS_'BoxeR' to see an awesome player at work. You'll probably find links from his videos to other progamer's games. These have korean commentaters and you can't look at what you want to leaving you at a slight disadvantage, but the commentaters usually focus on the important points in the game either way. There are some english commentaries that have excellent insight on strategy.

[Shrub]

Hey Shrub, welcome to warboards. Hope you enjoy your stay. :)



There really isn't a set-in-stone guide like that. The main reason is, that certain combo's work well against some units but fail miserably against others. (even just the number of units can make a combo useful/useless)

Here are the very basic normalities for race v. race.

TvZ:

T = Marines and Medics as a "backbone" of sorts. Effective against most everything. (except lurkers/guardians and such) Add in some siege tanks (with siege mode) and even a spare vulture once in a while. (tanks are good for taking out lurkers as well as hydras/ultras)

Z = usually zerglings and either lurkers or mutas at first. They'll later switch to 'lings and either ultras or more lurkers. Either way they'll probably have defilers with darkswarm. (melee + darkswarm = very effective against marines and tanks)

TvT = Usually a "metal war" between tanks and goliaths and, sometimes, vultures. Whoever out-expands/out-gains/out-tactics the other is the winner.

TvP

T = Siege tanks and vultures at first. Later in the game you can bleed off some of the vultures in favor of goliaths if you see them going for carrier tech.

P = Zealots and Dragoons. Dark Templar and High Templar every once in a while. (DT because they're invisible and HT because of storm) Later on you'll probably want carriers if the game seems to be at a stale mate.

Those are the very basic combos used in games. (and I wrote those as if the games were human vs human. Computers play a little differently but, once you play them enough, they're very predictable)

And, I know you've probably been told this and I've told dozens of other people. Watch replays. They will do you good. Watch how quickly the players play but also note that they don't tech up too fast. Try mimicking some of their tactics. (some don't work well against computers though.) Go to places like www.teamliquid.net (http://www.teamliquid.net) or sc.gosugamers.net. Both of these sites have huge databases of great replays that you can learn a lot from.



Well, the only way you can really do that (outside of making your own map) is to go into Multiplayer>Local Area Network(UDP) and create a "Top vs. Bottom" game. Here you can add computers as your allies. I should warn you that its just like playing a battle.net game. (no cheats :P)

Thanks, I hope I enjoy my stay too :D
I'll be playing against computer opponents, but some day when I can actually win I'll try going against other people with battle.net.

I was thinking about watching some replays, but how to I save them to the replays folder? I can't seem to find it.
Or can I view them outside of Starcraft (like with some program)?
Well, now at least I've learned quite a bit thanks to you and the others who posted, and hopefully I'll not suck so bad next time I play.
Infact, I feel optimistic. :)

Also, predictability... that's my biggest problem right now.
I can never know what to expect from my opponent and I'm never prepared.
BUT, I could send scouts so that I know what to expect and be prepared.
Yay! Mental note: there is always a way - never give up!
BELIEVE IT!
(lmao Naruto reference)

[DarkMirror]

Never use scouts. On pain of death.

[anderoo]

Never use scouts. On pain of death.

He means scouting units, not actual scouts, he plays terran.

Here's a rep of a tvt with a computer, I have a friend who just started playing starcraft and is in the same situation as you,so I used this to show how you can run over a terran computer with pure tank while using very very little skill.

[U-238]

I was thinking about watching some replays, but how to I save them to the replays folder? I can't seem to find it.

%starcraftroot%\maps\replays. %starcraftroot% is where you installed starcraft. (usually C:\Program Files\Starcraft)

Place all replay files in there and you should be able to watch them using the "Load Replay" button in single player. (you need the latest patch to see it)

BUT, I could send scouts so that I know what to expect and be prepared.

Once you've started watching replays you'll notice that that's what almost every player will do. They usually send out their 6/7/8/9 scv/probe/drone and look for their enemy.

[Shrub]

%starcraftroot%\maps\replays. %starcraftroot% is where you installed starcraft. (usually C:\Program Files\Starcraft)

Place all replay files in there and you should be able to watch them using the "Load Replay" button in single player. (you need the latest patch to see it)



Once you've started watching replays you'll notice that that's what almost every player will do. They usually send out their 6/7/8/9 scv/probe/drone and look for their enemy.

Thank you SOOOO much! :)
And now I can access all my screenshots in that big SC folder too!
You are truly a god.
With replays I can really improve!

[Hydralisk1337]

I hope my brethern taught you something too!

Now back to reality, I can't even survive the first AI rush. >.>

[Vezer]

Also, try to refrain from cheating. I found that when I first started playing, I never got any faster, cuz I just kept cheating to win games. (Even if I was winning, I would get bored...)

And if you want to get real fancy in your game playing, http://starcraft.org has a huge database of strategies.

[neobowman]

Although, be warned. Some on our sites are written by less skilled visitors.

[Juggernaut]

Hello! I'm new here in the forums, so hello everyone!

shrub, I think that you just didn't had enought units, you wrote you just started to build you second siege tank a short time before he attacked, and had marines+few more and one goliath.

basically, against the comp, if you can build a strong defensive position, it's bye bye comp, the AI is very not creative and will keep shoving troops to be mutilated by you.

Watch some replays, look how good players build their forces first at lower tech and advance only when it look safe, see the miners:minerals patch ratio (2:1) for max mining efficiancy, and watch the time as you watch replays, people do crazy stuff in a very short amounts of time, and it is all a function of how well they build.

And one last thing, even agains a comp, scout! locate his base, his tech and his forces and you will be more prepared for what's coming, it's suck to build tons of siege tanks while he attacks with mutalisks. And if you feel you need an advantage, attack with you scout, and when the whole builders trying to attack you, run away as far as you can, his workes will chase you for a good distance and you will get an economical advantage.

Good luck!

[Jaxander]

First of all, welcome Shrub and welcome Juggernaut. I'm sure you'll find Warborads to be a thuroughly enjoyable place! ;)

shrub, I think that you just didn't had enought units, you wrote you just started to build you second siege tank a short time before he attacked, and had marines+few more and one goliath.


Juggernaut, while most of your points were valid, and I as a Terran player agree with a lot, I'd say that the key problem Shrub is facing isn't that which you pointed out right away. It wasn't so much the 'number' of units, but more so the 'types.'

Shrub, as has been shown before, you need to focus on certain units when facing certain enemies. In concurrance with Jug, you need to scout constantly. Find out what your Zerg opponent is building and learn to counter it. If he goes Lings, make Firebats. If he goes Hydras, counter with Marines and Tanks.

And always use your medics. My rule of thumb is one medic for every 6 marines or infantry.

Learn what units counter what units (or what combinations of units counter what units), and once you get those basics down you can start to develop other, more intricate strategies and begin to create your own Starcraft style.

[Lithium]

I hope my brethern taught you something too!

Now back to reality, I can't even survive the first AI rush. >.>

You are not deserving of that username! :P

--

But yes, a warm welcome to Shrub and Juggernaut. Everyone's pretty much said what I was going to. I would advise to first pick out your favorite race, do not be scared to lose. It happens to the best of players. (well...maybe not vs. computers, but we're getting too far ahead here >.>)

Once you've decided that you truly want to play and actually win with that race, make a 1v1 match against a computer and experiment. If you lost one match, change a variable or two, then try again. But the best way, as everyone's already said,

-watch replays. Lots of 'em.
-Practice!

Also, if you're truly frustrated, then play Protoss. Turtle, then bust out 'dem carriers!

[b0bthecheeseman]

i haven't been playing for a while, but enough to know the basic.
i had your same problem when i started playing.

it seems as if you don't have enough production centers.

1 or 2 barrack and 1 factory is not enough to win a game. you must be prepared to make multiple unit production buildings.

also, don't overspend your resources, but don't also horde resources either

im probably not the best person to take advice from though, srry

[Nephi]

something you might want to try

set the computer to protoss, and you play as terran, set up a supply depot deffense (basically block off your entrance and put some bunkers behind it...and of course fill the bunkers with marines) that should give you all the time you need to get a huge fleet built up, its not effective against a real human opponent but it'll keep the computer busy until you can get a good feel for the game. (btw this works very well on the map Big Game Hunters)

[IrishDutchman]

Here's what you do vs Zerg

Start off by building SCV's, then you make a suplly depot and then a barracks. While you're building those, continue making more SCV's. They're extremely important. Keep doing that, then add a gas refinery and an academy and another barracks. If you built SCVs non stop, you should have enough by then.
If you have any minerals lying around while you're buildign that new stuff, use em to make marines.
Build up a force of medics and marines (and maybe some firebats) and build a factory. Get the add-on and start making siege tanks. Together they're your winning ticket. Marines, Medics and Tanks. After that, make an expansion at the minerals near your base.
DONT make a starport, armory or science facility till later on. If you have resources, use them to make more factorys and barracks'. The more buildings you have creating units, the faster your army will grow.
Later on, once the enemy has a lot of lurkers, you want a science facility for science vessels, but otherwise DON'T MAKE ANY OTHER UNITS. Just Marines, Medics and Tanks.


something you might want to try

set the computer to protoss, and you play as terran, set up a supply depot deffense (basically block off your entrance and put some bunkers behind it...and of course fill the bunkers with marines) that should give you all the time you need to get a huge fleet built up, its not effective against a real human opponent but it'll keep the computer busy until you can get a good feel for the game. (btw this works very well on the map Big Game Hunters)

yeah, DON'T LISTEN TO HIM. Just ignore what he said, and never think of it again.

[Ktan]

Guys, I know this seems very harsh, but if you are new, unless you have some totally SOLID suggestions, please don't post with advice. It doesn't help newbies when other newbies come along with advice that just isn't useful.

I'm not saying that new people shouldn't post in this thread, I'm merely saying if you do happen to be new, and do happen upon this thread, please be 100% certain what you are talking about. No money map strats, no vs AI strats, no strats from mods etc. If I see any more posts that I think will hinder rather than help, then I'll not hesitate to delete them and equally, I'm going to ask that other members be vigilant and report anything that simply doesn't work.

This may seem harsh, but it happens more frequently than I'd like that newbies come into threads and give conflicting advice to the more senior posters here. I know you are trying to help, but you need to be sure you are doing exactly that.

On the flip side, is you are a more senior member, please try and explain why a strat someone suggested would be a poor idea, instead of just saying 'Don't listen to them' (I know you are trying to help, ID, but we've got to bear in mind it's a two way street)

Also, if you don't find you are the best person to give advice then that means that no-one else will. This again seems very harsh, and for that I can only apologise, but if you aren't confident in your own advice, you shouldn't really expect anyone else to be. Please stick to facts wherever possible.

[Jaxander]

yeah, DON'T LISTEN TO HIM. Just ignore what he said, and never think of it again.

Actually, I find the Terran defense of Depots/Siege Tanks/Turrets, with a line of bunkers behind that wall, to be solid. It is great for choke points, but you don't want to go Depot crazy. If you block yourself in, you're at a huge disadvantage, requiring air transport to get anything anywhere.

But I'd argue that the Depot/Tank wall is a good strategy if used right. If you're like me, the people you play against rarely micro. They just use the Attack-Move command, making their units attack whatever's in front. Hence, the Depot.

Also, you don't want your Depot wall to be your only set of depots, obviously.

In regards to the Protoss Trutle (shudder...damn you turtle!) Tanks, as was outlined before, are the best bet. Never go air against the Turtle, at least in my own experience. Or a small drop behind the Turtle, if possible, is always nice to.

Of course, if the Turtl's got you down and you want to try a more fun alternative to the tanks, go nukes. This should probably only be used if you're playing with an ally, and an aggressive one at that. The ally can hold the enemy(ies), keeping them at bay, and then use your multiple Nuke silos and teched Ghosts to easily mop up that turtle as if it were nothing.

EDIT Sorry, Ktan. Hope this counts as a decent post from a (senior? perhaps in time here, but not in posts) member.

[Ktan]

No, it's fine. Just bear in mind, we want to keep anti AI strats to a minimum. I mean, no one's going to give perfect advice; it doesn't have to be fireproof. You just need to be confident you aren't giving laughable advice.

[Nephi]

in defense of myself

He sounded like he was getting hammered because he wanted to see and have late game units, i gave him a strat that is PROVEN to allow you to "turtle" just fine, why in the world would that be shunned? The supply depot defense in choke points is some peoples SOP against the AI which is what he is playing, it'll give him a chance to get familiar with the units and learn which terran units are effective against whatever. but apperantly because i don't have a ton of posts that makes my advice "laughable" Sorry i tried to help, just because you dont' like a stratagey doesn't mean it doesn't work. I cannot believe i'd get hammered so hard for posting such an obvious crutch. Why would we want to keep AI strats to a minimum? He is unless i'm mistaken playing against the AI.....

sigh.....first day on the boards......

[Ktan]

It's not that you are mistaken for playing against the AI, it's just that we need to try and encourage more strats that work vs humans. It's all well and good giving strats vs the PC, but if you can play well vs humans, you can beat the PC. Unfortunately, it doesn't work the other way round.

I've only been skimming this thread, so I may have missed if it was AI only, but even then, we should try and encourage strats that work against humans too, not just the very limited AI.

[anderoo]

Since you're playing against a computer you don't need brilliant strategy or amazing micro. The computer will do the exact same things over and over again regardless of what race you are playing as, all you need to do is pick better unit combinations. Terran vs zerg just make lots of marines and medics, a few tanks and science vessels once you have enough bases mining to do so. Make sure you have 1-2 SCV's mining for each mineral patch being mined, and make sure that you try to expand regularily. When you see the mineral stacks are shrinking down, maybe it's time to look for a new expansion. If you lose a lot of units to the computer's army, make sure that you get back to your barracks and keep producing more men. Watch our for lurkers because they will kill your marines/medics (otherwise known as m&m) easily. Tanks out-range lurkers even unsieged so use them to kill off the lurkers rather than wasting other units. Upgrade your marines' attack and armour at the engineering bay, get range and stim at the academy. The computer is not as smart as you think it is, and if you have the right units you'll roll it over even without much micro or perfect macro.

@Ktan I know my advice is, as stated, vs AI, this is pretty general TvZ stuff so please don't delete my post.