WoW with PC!!

[Protosschick99]

Who wants to game with me???

I am on a US RP Server called "The Scryers". I was up last night gaming by myself because no one is on the server I'm on :(

Let's set up a date and time :D I'll be on today for a while--But not too long cuz my fiance wants to take me to Lookout Mountain out here in Colorado :D

[ScottieIWU]

Oh god RP servers are fail. Even RPPVP is like slightly respectable? lol.

[GenocideAlive]

RP Server:

Hail to the Moon, I believe I witnessed a foul Orc ride by here!

King's Honor, Night Elf! Lead the way to the doom of the Horde!

Regular:

70 orc

fukk STV, ima farm desolace

[Protosschick99]

I don't even talk like that, lolz :P

Ya know, some wierdo was following me around last night asking me to kiss him. I kept telling him no but he kept following me going, "ur hot. ur hot. kiss. kiss frm u."

I ignored him and even though I did that he kept following me. So what did I do?

lolz :P

He was a n00b lvl 3 so I led him into the forest where there are a bunch of wood spiders and they attacked him and killed him--AHAHAHAHALOLZ! :P

I didn't RP any of what I said, I just told him plain, "Get away from me and leave me the heck alone. Stop following me!" ^_^

[kongurous]

PVP or bust, being on an RP server and not actually roleplaying feels wrong to me. And I never roleplay.

[ScottieIWU]

PVP or bust, being on an RP server and not actually roleplaying feels wrong to me. And I never roleplay.Even PvE servers are a joke. Anybody who says it's not easier to level/get going on a PvE server never levelled Illidan alliance to 60. Were I forced to find an analogous experience, I would say it is akin to having a hot iron shoved into your eye while a gang of men with whiffle bats beat you to death (I say whiffle bats because its slow and probably extremely unpleasant).

[Vhaeraun]

Even PvE servers are a joke. Anybody who says it's not easier to level/get going on a PvE server never levelled Illidan alliance to 60. Were I forced to find an analogous experience, I would say it is akin to having a hot iron shoved into your eye while a gang of men with whiffle bats beat you to death (I say whiffle bats because its slow and probably extremely unpleasant).

Kinky.

[Dayoh]

Im on PvP servers myself, i always tend to do a little roleplay for kicks lol.

[Vhaeraun]

I usually roll PvP, but I randomly decided to roll a warrior on Ghostlands - Normal. It isn't bad, though a bit unnerving to run through Hillsbrad and see an alli run by and not gank you.

[GenocideAlive]

Kind of the opposite in Arthas. The Hoarde are always raiding Hillsbrad, it's like a perpetual thing for them. It can be very irritating, especially when you're not really in the mood to try to dodge a bunch of asshats.

[Anoiktos]

Even PvE servers are a joke. Anybody who says it's not easier to level/get going on a PvE server...
I believe this phenomenon can be attributed to people who leveled during the first portion of the PVP server's life, when alliance/horde essentially left each other alone. I *know* from experience that leveling my druid was much more gankful than my mage. (though being able to stealth and track, and knowing where to level (DESOLACE. SCREW STV) made this much less of a problem than it could have been)

[GenocideAlive]

While I have enjoyed giving you yet another karma ball, I can say that indeed it was deserved. Because Stranglethorn Vale has got to be the biggest fucking ganktown in the whole goddamned world. 70s roll through OFTEN, and with a 15 level variance, you can bet your ass that everybody and their dog is going to be a higher level than you. Throw in a nice pattering of highbie group quests, you're going to get your poopoo packed pretty much every 10 minutes guaranteed.

Out of the god knows how many hours I've been in STV questing between my two chars, I have gotten ONE good story about ganking two hoarde. The rest of the stories go start something like "...was minding my own business when" and end with something like "took ten stitches to put back together, and I've never been the same". Though the story about me (L40) jumping two hoarde (L41 Resto D, L42 F Warr) and killing them both with Blade Flurry, Evasion, and Slice n' Dice certainly restored my epeen. Even though I was then corpsecamped for 20 min by a 70 Druid after that until I brought a 70 Hunter and kill him, at which point he ran away like a complete fucking pussybitch loser.

The only, ONLY good side to that entire fucking area is the pages that drop, which you can turn around and sell on the AH for .75G a pop. And the fuckers sell like hotcakes.

Seriously, fuck that place. It's horribly designed and miserable.

[Anoiktos]

I wasn't aware you were having so much trouble there, but I see your point.

As is obvious, I agree: STV is annoying, though there are tricks to it once you learn how people usually wander through the zone.

Alternatives, however, abound (which is the purpose of this post):

Note that these particular notes are particular to Frostwolf, a PVP server, and may be slightly different on yours.

I recommend, as I said earlier, Desolace. Vacant zone, only horde usually level there, and even then there are few of them, and those people you DO meet there are far more often in ones or twos than in STV. Not the best quests, but ample grinding zones and a few interesting events.

Another excellent place, now that they've changed it, in Dustwallow Marsh, for both factions. A new quest hub, and much improved quests meant that my 43 warrior has *flown* through the past through levels like a chainsaw through margarine. Plus for alliance: Decent lore squirrelled away in the extra quests there, as well as information on your old favorites, the Defias.

When you're done with that, Tanaris is another gankzone; neutral city, lots of 70's, popular grinding areas, etc, etc. Skip it, head to Feralas (which no one goes to nowadays due to the size of the zone and huge number of irritating enemies). It's much easier for horde than alliance, as the horde quest hub is in the center of the zone, and the alliance one is out, quite literally, to sea. Badlands is another place that favors horde (alliance don't even have a city), but is good farming and questing for either faction. (gankeriffic for alliance, however)

The Blasted Lands is another option, though I've found the dearth of quests there somewhat irritating. the Searing Gorge is also viable, though its quests tend to be more decentralized than most other zones, and you need to get the key to enter unless you run through the Steppes to get the flight path. On the other hand, just about no one goes there.

...And there the 'easy leveling' ends, for, oh, eight levels. Both the plaguelands and Un'goro are gankfests, depending on the time of day, as Un'goro is centralized (same quests, different factions, what could possibly go wrong?), and believe me when I tell you you will come back there, at some point, just to give those Devilsaurs an eye for an eye (who needs player gankers when you've got NPCs?)

The Plaguelands, despite its numerous fantastic grinding spots (which are, of course, on natural highways), is near Tarren Mill and Southshore (and as such, not nearly far enough away from a horde of incoming 70's), and its quest hubs tend to push players across both zones (so you'll end up with people five levels higher than you deciding to beat on you)

Felwood and Winterspring are interesting. Felwood (48-55ish) is full of interesting but tricky quests, varied enemies, and cool-looking landscapes, as well as free pots if you do some specific quests. It's not amazingly large, but moving around it can get irritating, and there are a wealth of poisons/diseases/curses in the area.

Winterspring will find you at ends with the timbermaw or wintersaber farmers, but has some nice quests and is otherwise unpopulated, as yeti farming is no longer a popular occupation. (just stay away from the north part of the zone!)

Note: to get to winterspring, you need to either be clever (say, popping ice armor will do it for a mage) or stealthy, or farm timbermaw rep until the furbolgs in the northeast part of the zone let you through their cave. DO NOT ATTACK THEM unless you feel like never being able to walk through that place in peace again.

Lastly, the Burning Steppes is (now) mostly deserted. It used to be very popular due to the popularity of BRD/UBRS/etc, but no one runs those anymore, and few of the players who went to MC ever want to see those zones again. Decent quests, much safer than the alternatives. You may find some people ganking near the south of the zone, as for some reason horde appear to be obsessed with Lakeshire, and alliance returns in kind.

Fortunately, once you hit 58, I've found the road to 70 is, well, fun. Some ganking, certainly, as all of outland is populated by 70's, and a 70 is far more powerful than a 60, but the quests have better rewards, the hubs are better thought out, and your progression can pretty much coast from zone to zone, picking up loot and cash as you go.

A recommendation: run instances *before* doing quests in each zone, getting your reputation with the local faction to honored (or whenever you can't get it from newbie instances anymore) before beginning quests. Research some of the basic gear quests before doing this, however (goldweave tunic for mages, etc).

This will ensure that you are near revered with each faction by the time you finish each of the faction zones (Hellfire, Zangarmarsh, Terokkar, Netherstorm), allowing you to a) do heroics immediately once you're geared, and b) pick up the 2.4 'PVP' gear from each revered vendor. (introductory PVP gear to help you not suck in starting battlegrounds)

Also (this may be specific to my server/faction), battlegrounds are much easier to get honor in at 69 than 70. Stick around at 69 until you have enough for S1 weapons, so that you can get them immediately after hitting 70.

Edit: I appear to have wandered off topic. Should I make another thread?

[Vhaeraun]

The Blasted Lands is another option, though I've found the dearth of quests there somewhat irritating. the Searing Gorge is also viable, though its quests tend to be more decentralized than most other zones, and you need to get the key to enter unless you run through the Steppes to get the flight path. On the other hand, just about no one goes there.
Searing Gorge is so much easier to get into. Horde fly to kargath and go south; there's a path through the mountains just south. Alliance same path, but fly to thelsamar and go from there. I've done most of the quests there with ease without ever getting a key.

[Anoiktos]

Good to know. I believe that path is the area near which the enemy which you need to kill for the key quest resides, but it always seemed inconvenient for alliance due to close horde proximity.

[Vhaeraun]

You can't even see Kargath from the entrance to the path. And even if you could, there's a high chance you could outrun the guards should they aggro, as if you're going into SG without a mount then the guards from kargath will be the least of your worries.

[Neo]

bah, I don't get why people actually enjoy pvp servers. I'd assume after getting camped or ganked a ton would be more conducive to smashing your computer or throwing it out a window or something.

Constantly getting ganked/having to avoid various contested zones/etc... seems like an enormous waste of time to me. Getting ganked can only be so much fun until it loses it's thrill, i mean, who the fuck takes a 70 character to lower level zones?

I just don't get pvp servers.

-Neo

[kongurous]

bah, I don't get why people actually enjoy pvp servers. I'd assume after getting camped or ganked a ton would be more conducive to smashing your computer or throwing it out a window or something.

Constantly getting ganked/having to avoid various contested zones/etc... seems like an enormous waste of time to me. Getting ganked can only be so much fun until it loses it's thrill, i mean, who the fuck takes a 70 character to lower level zones?

I just don't get pvp servers.

-Neo

Because ganking is the only form of PvP you experience on a PvP server.

[Vhaeraun]

Ganking happens. It's douchebaggery to camp people, but it happens.

Now, there's a certain thrill to have to pay attention to your surroundings while you quest. It brings a new aspect to the game when you have to keep your camera swivelling in order to see the opposing factions before they catch you.

[ScottieIWU]

bah, I don't get why people actually enjoy pvp servers. I'd assume after getting camped or ganked a ton would be more conducive to smashing your computer or throwing it out a window or something.

Constantly getting ganked/having to avoid various contested zones/etc... seems like an enormous waste of time to me. Getting ganked can only be so much fun until it loses it's thrill, i mean, who the fuck takes a 70 character to lower level zones?

I just don't get pvp servers.

-NeoI think the answer everyone is looking for is this: we're not carebears.

[GenocideAlive]

I don't get PvE servers. So you get to 70, you do all the raids, what's left? Borrrrring.

Some of the best times I've had on PvP servers is when I put together a raid at Circle of Blood to help Hoarde doing same. It's one of those things that empowers you.

I heavily dislike any environment where you can ignore other players, who basically are what make the game interesting. Why play an MMORPG if you're going to ignore the MM part?

[Neo]

I don't get PvE servers. So you get to 70, you do all the raids, what's left? Borrrrring.

Some of the best times I've had on PvP servers is when I put together a raid at Circle of Blood to help Hoarde doing same. It's one of those things that empowers you.

I heavily dislike any environment where you can ignore other players, who basically are what make the game interesting. Why play an MMORPG if you're going to ignore the MM part?

correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure I might be, but PvE servers are also part of the battle grounds and also have those huge PVP battles don't they? as well as normal pvp arenas and what not.

and see, here I don't ignore people, unless their horde or alliance (whatever im playing), seeing as i can then buff them or save them from dieing.

whereas the other reaction is to OMFG KILL IT NOW.

so yeah. pve is more then hitting 70.

and don't you get badges or some kind of pvp something in raids or instances or whatever the fuck they are? someone over on bf was complaining about that.

don't get it, or is it that people who play pvp play it because they think you can't pvp at all on a pve server?

personally i find it more enjoyable to go questing in one area, and then hit another to specifically pvp. rather then jump on someone else questing. killing "noobs" is only so much fun in starcraft even, i'd imagine it's even more mindnumbingly moronic to camp some -20 level from you.

-Neo

[kongurous]

correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure I might be, but PvE servers are also part of the battle grounds and also have those huge PVP battles don't they? as well as normal pvp arenas and what not.

and see, here I don't ignore people, unless their horde or alliance (whatever im playing), seeing as i can then buff them or save them from dieing.

whereas the other reaction is to OMFG KILL IT NOW.

so yeah. pve is more then hitting 70.

and don't you get badges or some kind of pvp something in raids or instances or whatever the fuck they are? someone over on bf was complaining about that.

don't get it, or is it that people who play pvp play it because they think you can't pvp at all on a pve server?

personally i find it more enjoyable to go questing in one area, and then hit another to specifically pvp. rather then jump on someone else questing. killing "noobs" is only so much fun in starcraft even, i'd imagine it's even more mindnumbingly moronic to camp some -20 level from you.

-Neo

PvP on a PvE server is like going hunting on grounds that are specially stocked so you can kill something even if you have no skill. Sure, you get the same rewards and same end result as a PvP server, but where's the fun? PvP on a PvE server just feels fake to me, and with arenas and battlegrounds really being the only way to PvP on one, it really is.

PvP servers, however, don't lose that feeling of the hunt. It's a more primal sort of feeling, it's you fighting the environment and other players. Yes, there's ganking. It's going to happen. I do it, my friends do it, everyone does it and will do it. Just a fact of the game. But it's like you can't fathom the possibility of world PvP that isn't ganking or camping, which is the vast majority of what I've experienced.

[Vhaeraun]

and don't you get badges or some kind of pvp something in raids or instances or whatever the fuck they are? someone over on bf was complaining about that.
Badges of Justice, dropped by all bosses in Heroic instances, and I believe from raid bosses as well?

They're used to buy epics in shattrath.

don't get it, or is it that people who play pvp play it because they think you can't pvp at all on a pve server?
pvp has that adrenaline factor. There's a rush you get when you're suddenly jumped while you're fighting something else. I've had it happen plenty, and it still gets me. Trying to fight one mob while simultaneously fending off an actual player is so much more enjoyable than grinding all the time.

personally i find it more enjoyable to go questing in one area, and then hit another to specifically pvp. rather then jump on someone else questing. killing "noobs" is only so much fun in starcraft even, i'd imagine it's even more mindnumbingly moronic to camp some -20 level from you.

Unfortunately, there are no pvp specific areas on pve servers outside of the bg's - unless outland is pvp enabled; I dunno. There will be come WotLK, but not until then, so the levelling process on pve servers is more of a grind than on pvp servers imo.

And yes, it is mindnumbingly moronic to camp someone 20 levels below you, and as I've said, those are the people who generally suck in pvp with their own level or are the mains of the alts you might have killed prior. It is stupid, but it happens and to completely ignore that is just as stupid, I think.

[ScottieIWU]

Badges of Justice, dropped by all bosses in Heroic instances, and I believe from raid bosses as well?

They're used to buy welfare epics in shattrath.They drop off heroic bosses, daily heroic quests and Kara bosses. After that they don't cater to people who can't get their own gear.

(Sorry, but I'm biased on the whole "EPICS FROM THE GUY FOR JUST DOING A 5-MAN LULZ)


pvp has that adrenaline factor. There's a rush you get when you're suddenly jumped while you're fighting something else. I've had it happen plenty, and it still gets me. Trying to fight one mob while simultaneously fending off an actual player is so much more enjoyable than grinding all the time.

Unfortunately, there are no pvp specific areas on pve servers outside of the bg's - unless outland is pvp enabled; I dunno. There will be come WotLK, but not until then, so the levelling process on pve servers is more of a grind than on pvp servers imo.

And yes, it is mindnumbingly moronic to camp someone 20 levels below you, and as I've said, those are the people who generally suck in pvp with their own level or are the mains of the alts you might have killed prior. It is stupid, but it happens and to completely ignore that is just as stupid, I think.There is a reason blizzard doesn't allow players on PvE servers to xfer to PvP, and a reason why PvP server xfers to PvE servers are permanant and one-way.

PvE servers are easy. It's where you go when you don't want to have to fight and yet get the same rewards. Sure, it sucked for me to get camped by 20 60's on their way to ZG while I was trying to do STV quests, or to get camped by 40 people on their way to MC or BWL, but that's also a fact of life.

PvE servers, I've noticed nobody has pointed out, can have players who enable themselves to be flagged for PvP combat at any time, the same way you can do when you're in your own territory. However, this is kinda like the wuss way out, IMO. I mean, if you get camped you just unflag and sit at your corpse for 5 mins, wait for the flag to go off. There's no competition for quests (I can't tell you how many times I've had to tell people not to gank at Ring of Blood or else we wouldn't get the quests done for hours...it happens anyway and I'm right), mobs or anything. There's no ability to gank that guy who just tapped 10 mobs so he could get them before you did. Fact is, PvE servers are for carebears.

The thrill/realism/fun issues are all put aside. Sometimes, I really do want to toss my computer out the window because of world pvp that happens when I don't want it to. I justify it, however, by pointing out that I know how to pvp. I can't tell you how few GOOD pvpers come from PvE servers. You learn to pvp with your class fully pre-70 because you have to learn to defend yourself early and often.

You can pretend that the cooperation fostered between horde/alli on a pve server justifies this, but keep in mind this game has TWO SEPARATE FACTIONS for a reason. If Blizzard had meant for people to carebear 90% of the time, the two factions would be one and there would be no reason to bother.

I suggest that if you levelled a 70 on a pve server, you try going through the process on a pvp server. Your game experience will change significantly, in some ways for the way better and some ways for the significantly worse. But, that's a tradeoff that I'd deal with anytime.

[Neo]

WoW isn't the only MMO to have PvP though -- and to be honest, if you played one, you've basically played them all.

So basically what you're saying, or a few are saying is that there is a thrill to the randomness associated with pvp servers. Some of you may even find a perverse joy in being camped while questing, which is fine. But for me, I would find/do find such situations beyond intolerable. Especially if I'm paying for something I'm to enjoy?

Many other games have done PvP before, and WoW is no different. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the following is true with pvp servers right?

At some point you must build a pvp-specific "cheap" character. most likely, from my limited wow experience, a hunter. someone mentioned grabbing one to cause a 70 druid to run earlier -- I would be rather annoyed to have to switch characters to something like a hunter just to clear out an ass who might be spawn camping or just ganking.

The server might also be difficult to test various builds on, although granted I have little experience with skills on wow at the moment, but I'd imagine that, say, if you wanted to do something wacky like go pure pet skills on a hunter, it would be a patently stupid idea, sense you'd probably end up easy prey.

The other problem I see mostly is manners. I know it shouldn't matter for an online game, and many look at it as an outlet for frustration and such, but what the hell does it say about you to gank someone else? And what does it say about you that you will wast your time allowing yourself to be spawn-camped constantly?

My brother started on a pve server, and because he didn't understand the rules, somehow ended up flagged (probably buffed an npc or something). So a couple of 70s sat there and camped him nonstop for, literally, 20-30 minutes. I think, at the time, he was like level 11? maybe?

In the past I remember an early diablo II pk-er who made one game pretty memorable for me and a group we we're fighting our way through act 4, I believe. He told us he'd be searching for us along the river -- and to try to stay ahead of him. We eventually reached Diablo's area and released him, before the guy showed up. However once Diablo poofed we were forced to deal with both the PK and the boss. The player surprised me greatly when he didn't do many of the things standard nowadays, any of which might include camping corpses (he'd allow the weaker two to recover their corpses and didn't even bother going after them), didn't kill diablo (thus causing some/most of us to lose the quest), and he was rather polite about it. After fighting with him a few times, I believe an amazon and I took him down (Granted it was like a 1 down to 15 rofl), he said something like "good fight" and grabbed his corpse and left the game. Surprised me since, at the time, many pkers utilized things like chicken (drops you if you hit a low HP amount), and disconnection-related hacks to kill people.

If it was possible, I'm sure people would do the same on WoW.

I suppose I can understand the thrill behind a pvp server, but on the other hand it baffles me how it would be at all enjoyable? I tend to be rather efficient / logical in the way I do things -- even game (lol...) so wasting time unnecessarily to quest or level seems counterproductive to the extreme. Plus, I'd just assume it's much more satisfying to pvp against others who specifically want to pvp and/or are built for it and/or are simply skilled at it.

It's not like I'm trying to say pvp is stupid and OMG UR LAME FOR PLAYING ON IT.

but by the same token, it seems to me that if I get raped by some mob clone of a warlock thats 3 levels below me, then a pvp encounter would server equally as frustrating and fruitless.

However, it does annoy me greatly when people like Scottie condescend to those of us who choose to play on a PvE server. Pardon me for not being the same as you and playing the game as you claim it should be. Carebears? Right. So all of those on a PvE server that participate in any PvP Arena/Battlegrounds/whatever the fuck they are aren't worthy?

And why would knowing how to effectively pvp pre-70 matter at all? How many people actually go pvping before the max out anyway? I remember hearing something that someone mentioned "the game starts at 70" -- so why would knowing how to pvp at 50 matter at all? Except to fight off assholes?

There are plenty of people on a PvE server that PvP, whether they make the jump to a pvp server full time or not is beside the point, I'm sure you can find equally skilled PVPers on any server. It's not as if PvE servers are immune to ganking at all.

Being able to control whether you're flagged or not means that, for instance, if I'm running through Ashenvale I can simply ignore the horde attack on the nightelf settlement. Or, if I'm feeling adventurous I can jump right in and try to defend them.

Being able to choose is what I appreciate the most. Being forced into conflict no matter what, regardless of level is certainly not my idea of an enjoyable game experience.

Didn't you at one time lose honor or rep or something for ganking or camping lower levels or something?

-Neo

[Serban]

Didn't you at one time lose honor or rep or something for ganking or camping lower levels or something?
Yes, I remember that too. I think it was around patch 1.10 or something (very very old at any rate). The honor system was divided in two:
1) Honor Points - fueled by Honorable Kills (enemies between x-2 and 60 [max at that time])
2) Dishonor Points - fueled by Dishonorable Kills (enemies between 1 and x-3)
... where x=your level.
I'm not sure how each affected what, but it was certainly more effective towards balancing the fights, I guess...?

[ScottieIWU]

WoW isn't the only MMO to have PvP though -- and to be honest, if you played one, you've basically played them all.

So basically what you're saying, or a few are saying is that there is a thrill to the randomness associated with pvp servers. Some of you may even find a perverse joy in being camped while questing, which is fine. But for me, I would find/do find such situations beyond intolerable. Especially if I'm paying for something I'm to enjoy?I think the fundamental problem you have here is that for you, a pvp server = you will never move from where your corpse is because you're being camped 100% of the time. The reality is that most of the time, and depending on server population, you get people who gank you once and move on. As a sign of dominance and saying "don't fuck with me later."

Many other games have done PvP before, and WoW is no different. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the following is true with pvp servers right?

At some point you must build a pvp-specific "cheap" character. most likely, from my limited wow experience, a hunter. someone mentioned grabbing one to cause a 70 druid to run earlier -- I would be rather annoyed to have to switch characters to something like a hunter just to clear out an ass who might be spawn camping or just ganking.This not only makes no sense, but I'm not sure why hunter would be the "cheap" character. Moreover, the only thing that I can think of that even remotely relates to this is the idea of someone with a higher-level main than the ganking person to go get that main and defend his corpse. Not everyone has this ability, and not everyone cares. I sometimes get my main (who happens to be a hunter, because I enjoy the class) to wreck someone who ganked one of my alts, but sometimes I just don't care and will move to a different quest. It's not like Kalimdor/Outlands aren't huge.

The server might also be difficult to test various builds on, although granted I have little experience with skills on wow at the moment, but I'd imagine that, say, if you wanted to do something wacky like go pure pet skills on a hunter, it would be a patently stupid idea, sense you'd probably end up easy prey.You mean BM spec? The best raid spec and one of the best dueling/battleground specs in the game? Okay.

The other problem I see mostly is manners. I know it shouldn't matter for an online game, and many look at it as an outlet for frustration and such, but what the hell does it say about you to gank someone else? And what does it say about you that you will wast your time allowing yourself to be spawn-camped constantly?Your in-depth and insightful psychological analysis aside: it's a game. Moreover, you can GY rez and go do something else, or log off for a few minutes. I've seen very few people ever be so dedicated to the game so as to wait by someone's corpse for more than 15-20 mins after inactivity before moving on.

Also, ganking/camping is a way to encourage world pvp. If I ganked a low-level character, I'm probably doing so to entice that person to grab his main for some real 1v1 dueling or perhaps for him to call for help, and thus let me see some world pvp action. Other times, it's just fun. But there's no psychological aberrations involved.

My brother started on a pve server, and because he didn't understand the rules, somehow ended up flagged (probably buffed an npc or something). So a couple of 70s sat there and camped him nonstop for, literally, 20-30 minutes. I think, at the time, he was like level 11? maybe?Sucks to be him? Sorry that a game mechanic got in the way?

In the past I remember an early diablo II pk-er who made one game pretty memorable for me and a group we we're fighting our way through act 4, I believe. He told us he'd be searching for us along the river -- and to try to stay ahead of him. We eventually reached Diablo's area and released him, before the guy showed up. However once Diablo poofed we were forced to deal with both the PK and the boss. The player surprised me greatly when he didn't do many of the things standard nowadays, any of which might include camping corpses (he'd allow the weaker two to recover their corpses and didn't even bother going after them), didn't kill diablo (thus causing some/most of us to lose the quest), and he was rather polite about it. After fighting with him a few times, I believe an amazon and I took him down (Granted it was like a 1 down to 15 rofl), he said something like "good fight" and grabbed his corpse and left the game. Surprised me since, at the time, many pkers utilized things like chicken (drops you if you hit a low HP amount), and disconnection-related hacks to kill people.

If it was possible, I'm sure people would do the same on WoW.[quote]Yes, I'm sure they would. Your point?

[quote]However, it does annoy me greatly when people like Scottie condescend to those of us who choose to play on a PvE server. Pardon me for not being the same as you and playing the game as you claim it should be. Carebears? Right. So all of those on a PvE server that participate in any PvP Arena/Battlegrounds/whatever the fuck they are aren't worthy?I think what you're not aware of or are actively ignoring is that a long time ago, there were no battlegrounds in WoW. There was only world pvp. Now, I'm not sure if PvE servers were around then (though I'm relatively certain they were), but that makes PvE servers a joke. That means all you do in the game is sit around and fight mobs all day. You don't PvP unless two or more people consent to it, etc. So yes, I do look down on that.

Now that there are battlegrounds, the paradigm has shifted slightly, but still, the world pvp experience is completely lost and in many cases, I prefer the huge fights between Taren Mill and Southshore to the pointless bitching and moaning of AV and honor whoring on peoples parts.

And why would knowing how to effectively pvp pre-70 matter at all? How many people actually go pvping before the max out anyway? I remember hearing something that someone mentioned "the game starts at 70" -- so why would knowing how to pvp at 50 matter at all? Except to fight off assholes?Class knowledge, scrub. You get skills progressively in the game, so as to learn how to use them. You aren't handed them all at once and thus having pvp experience pre-70 means that you have experience with many of the core abilities of your class for a significantly longer time. Imagine a hunter trying to kite a warrior for the first time, at 70, having never used his abilities on a warrior before. Moreover, pvp pre-70 also gives you a certain understanding of other class mechanics. It's the idea of a gradual experience, rather than throwing a new 70 into a 70 BG with a bunch of people from a PvP realm who have been doing this since level 15+ while this 70 has no clue what pvp is like, other than a few incidents when he maybe got pvp flagged.

There are plenty of people on a PvE server that PvP, whether they make the jump to a pvp server full time or not is beside the point, I'm sure you can find equally skilled PVPers on any server. It's not as if PvE servers are immune to ganking at all.I've said it once, and I'll say it again: there's a reason Blizzard makes PvP to PvE server transfers one-way.

Being able to control whether you're flagged or not means that, for instance, if I'm running through Ashenvale I can simply ignore the horde attack on the nightelf settlement. Or, if I'm feeling adventurous I can jump right in and try to defend them.Please don't assume that I don't know how pvp flagging works. I've gotten ganked in IF because, despite being on a PvP server, I choose to flag myself in "safe" zones.

On a side note, if you think that capable PvPers come from any realm type, look at the S2 arena standings. In the Stormstrike battlegroup, of the top 17 5v5 teams, there is ONE PvE server, of the top 17 3v3 teams, 2 come from PvE servers, and of the top 17 2v2 teams, 2 are from PvE servers.

Look at the Emberstorm battlegroup standings. That battlegroup is dominated by PvE servers but last season the 3v3 and 5v5 brackets were thoroughly dominated by pvp servers.

I won't call it scientific research or anything, or necessarily convincing scientific data, but it seems to me like pvp servers tend to do better. I have yet to see a top team for the season come from a pve server in those two battlegroups.

[GenocideAlive]

I can completely agree with you, Neo, that PvP wrecks leveling. You can't just get your level on and pound out 300000xp/hr with clever routes and quest accomplishment. The game is much more dynamic on a PvP server. What's the tradeoff?

Understanding of game mechanics - players have to be aware of what types of scenarios into which they are entering and whom they favor.

Understanding of character skills and balance - fighting gives you an idea as to what you can get away with against other chars, from 1-70. Even if you gain class-altering skills on the way, you still are exposed to the gamut of class capabilities from 1-70.

Cooperation - when it pays to leave the hornet's nest alone, and how to perform damage control in the event that something goes awry.

Ganks - sucks to get ganked, fun to do the ganking. i get no joy out of killing someone 20 levels below me, but i sure do enjoy killing the 70 they call out to help them.

Corpse camping - people have horror stories about being camped for 20 hours and other such BS, but the fact of the matter is that they do dumb shit like rez and start emoting at their killer. or they'll wait till he starts questing / farming in that area and try to gank him. duh he camped you, you were being a little shit. don't do stupid shit and idle for five minutes, 99% of people move on. start /spitting and other idiotic crap and expect for 90% of players to stop and make some memories on your ass.

As for PvE v PvP type scenarios, yeah, PvE will never get respect from PvP servers. Not because PvPers think that PvErs are automatically worse players or w/e, but just for the pussy-factor. Yeah it's bullshit dealing with all the people from moment to moment and trying to level. But you earn your respect.

Just like Officers in the military that bypass Boot Camp and the like, they aren't respected. It has nothing to do with their job and they were commissioned for important work vital to the military, but hey. Everybody's gotta pay their dues.

[Neo]

GA it's times like this I wish I could just reach through the screen and give you a big manly bear-hug.

Scottie I think you missed the point or just wanted to continue drilling the fact that "pvp is better then pve no matter what"

-Neo

[ScottieIWU]

GA it's times like this I wish I could just reach through the screen and give you a big manly bear-hug.

Scottie I think you missed the point or just wanted to continue drilling the fact that "pvp is better then pve no matter what"Pretty much. I see no intellectual debate here, so I'm not pandering to intelligent discourse, and I have a severe lack of respect for people on PvE realms, so I'm kind of being a dick about it.

(Incidentally, GA said much of what I said, sans the attitude, so I'm not sure why you say I missed the point. It's more like "i got the point then continued to point out that PvP > PvE.)

[Anoiktos]

Note: I've never, ever played on a PVE server. So I have no idea what they're like. I leveled both my 70's on Frostwolf, an alliance-dominated server that, during its infancy, was fairly vicious on the horde front because a few guilds from Shadowbane/etc (order of the pink pansies) rolled horde there and took no prisoners.

This not only makes no sense, but I'm not sure why hunter would be the "cheap" character.
Because hunters have track, kite well, can't be LOS'd in most world PVP, can (as night elves) shadowmeld, have shots which dispel, mana burn, and cancel spellcasting, have a point-blank slowing attack, can feign death (to drop aggro on the mobs distracting you during a gank), can drop traps which freeze or slow, can escape from an area quickly at pre-mount levels (not in combat), are one of two classes who can have the highest ranged attacks in the game, have the most effective anti-stealth abilities in the game, have a pet to slow down or hinder their enemies when ganked, etc.

Other than maybe rogues (who can stealth and have many escape abilities), or warlocks (who aren't great at low levels but who can fear, and being feared into a group of mobs isn't pretty) and maybe even then, I can't think of a class that is better suited to world PVP while leveling. Mages? Squishy as hell when ambushed, no ambush detection. Druids? They can run away, but if you're dying to one of equal level until 60+, you're doing something wrong. Paladins? They can bubble-hearth, and recently ret's gotten some buffs, but they have no means of chasing most of the time from 1-60. Warriors? Until they get gear, they're slow and don't do damage. Priests? Until 40, they're free kills, after 40, they're powerhouses if shadow but still helpless against anyone who can weather the fear.

If you were looking specifically to choose the hardest class to gank, and the easiest class to gank with, rogues are about the only class equal to hunters.

Arena's a bit different (as you can be LOS'd and can't heal), but feasibility in arena has nothing to do with your server type, just how dedicated you are to PVP and your class. (and, *surprise*, you'll find people are more dedicated to PVP on PVP servers. Who'da thought it?)

[Neo]

actually, i kind of meant "cheap" as in cost-cheap. not like skill cheap or whiner-cheap... =p

possibly I should've said "easier" or something.

-Neo

[WarInSerbia]

This not only makes no sense, but I'm not sure why hunter would be the "cheap" character.Hunters are only good for raiding,only rare pro hunters use tactic to defeat a enemy.

[Neo]

for the record i'm jumping to a pvp server to play with friends.

-Neo