Sci Fi Showdown (C&C vs. Zerg)

[DarkMirror]

Ok, As the last one showed an overwhelming amount of outcries that the BORG wtfpwn the Zerg, I decided to make another poll. Now, this may be a bit of a stretch, mind you, as is any comparison. But keep in mind that the two genres are somewhat compatible.

Which is better in a fight? Assuming that a detachment of the Zerg found the Earth of the Command and Conquer universe, who would win in the ultimate combat?

The humans of C&C are split into two factions, the GDI and the Nod. The GDI have established at least a few Orbital stations, including an Ion cannon. The Nod seem to, from my knowledge, specialize in chemical warfare.

The Zerg, as you may know, are a ravenous species of entirely biological, assimilated bug-like warriors, controlled by several hive minds. They multiply rapidly, have no concerns about throwing hoards of their kind against a problem until it breaks, and come in many varieties.

Now, as I see it there are two clinchers to this type of matchup; The ability of the Nod and GDI to work togethor, and the presence of Tiberium. If the Nod and GDI could team up, as they did in the most recent game, then their chances would significantly improve.

Tiberium is a aggressive mineral formation, which assimilates the minerals in the area and turning them into a highly radioactive composite. It has restricted human growth on most of the planet, and would pose a signifigant threat to the Zerg who are entirely biological. I suppose that they could simply drop in from orbit, directly over a human population zone...

Well, lets see you decide! I honestly cant, although i side towards the Zerg, as they have superior numbers, and could probobly avoid Tiberium if needed.

[Dusty]

My guess is if the Zerg are vulnerable against the Tiberium then humans have a very good chance. Nod would most likely have the upperhand however as the GDI populate a realitivily small area. The Blue zones. Where the presence of Tiberium is Nil. It would be fairly simple for the Zerg to conquer them. The Ion cannon wouldn't last for a minute against Scourges.

Now for the NOD they have the Tiberium sprayers, Flame Tanks, Nukes, and all the good crap. For now I remain undecided.

[TheListener]

The way I've always seen it is that humans are hindered by their fear.
In everyone apocalyptic scenario, be it with killer robots, zombies, orcs, or hordes of insect like behemoths, human beings will usually succumb to their fear and the lack of rationality that comes with the emotion.
Characteristically, the afore-mentioned enemies never back down, even when ambushed by a group of gun toting humans whereas the normal human will shit themselves when placed alone in a trench facing zerglings tumbling after him.
Humans excel in long-distant, impersonal combat through the use of explosives, aerial bombing, tanks and such. Close up, generally where zerglings, ultralisks and hydralisks feel most comfortable, humans will 9 times out of 10 cry.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

The Zerg would annihilate C&C. Sure, the humans in C&C might have technology roughly on par with the humans in Starcraft, but they're only one planet, and as I recall the Zerg control around three. The Zerg would win through numbers alone.

[Dusty]

The way I've always seen it is that humans are hindered by their fear.
In everyone apocalyptic scenario, be it with killer robots, zombies, orcs, or hordes of insect like behemoths, human beings will usually succumb to their fear and the lack of rationality that comes with the emotion.
Characteristically, the afore-mentioned enemies never back down, even when ambushed by a group of gun toting humans whereas the normal human will shit themselves when placed alone in a trench facing zerglings tumbling after him.
Humans excel in long-distant, impersonal combat through the use of explosives, aerial bombing, tanks and such. Close up, generally where zerglings, ultralisks and hydralisks feel most comfortable, humans will 9 times out of 10 cry.

However this comes down to disipline. If the Rag-Tag humans in Starcraft could push off the zerg I'm pretty sure the highly trained NOD and GDI troops could do it. If what you say is true then in C&C the Human race would have given up long ago in the face of Tiberium.

[DarkMirror]

yeah, but lets assume that this starts out on a single planet scale. I already said that this is just one swarm. However, they still outnumber the humans.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

yeah, but lets assume that this starts out on a single planet scale. I already said that this is just one swarm. However, they still outnumber the humans.

One swarm? That's really vague..

[Dusty]

If the overmind really wanted to conquer earth would he only send one brood? I don't think so he would send a large bulk force.

[DarkMirror]

One detachment, one swarm. Lets say one Brood, like a s single Cerebrate.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

One detachment, one swarm. Lets say one Brood, like a s single Cerebrate.

How big is a Brood, exactly?

[Dusty]

As far as I know they can range greatly in size. When you play the Zerg campaign I believe all the units you control in that battle is your brood.

[DarkMirror]

Pretty much. Lets assume that this brood is similar in size to the one that took Mar Sara. That not an entire sector of Zerg, buts still a lot.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

As far as I know they can range greatly in size. When you play the Zerg campaign I believe all the units you control in that battle is your brood.

....that's only 400 zerg at the max. I think they'd lose if that's the case.

Pretty much. Lets assume that this brood is similar in size to the one that took Mar Sara. That not an entire sector of Zerg, buts still a lot.

An entire sector of zerg being the entire race...

Also, how big was the Brood at Mar Sara?

[Dusty]

We don't really know :-/ Nothing really goes that indepth as far as the numbers in each brood. Lets give a rational number here.

25,000 zerg total that includes buildings, Drones, and Overlords.

[DarkMirror]

More than 400. It basically started small, and then spread like wildfire. At the end, according to Liberties Crusade, the creep extended over oceans. But that was after all Terrans had been screwed by the Confeds.

This is still a lot of Zerg. Assuming that they don't bring the whole collective to attack the Earth, lets start discussing tactics and possibilities, kk?

[Giggilyomeromicon]

25,000 zerg would get annihilated, that's less then the current US Military, which is by no means the world's largest military. And if I'm not mistaken the races in C&C would easily have a million men between them...

[Dusty]

I'm shooting in the dark here :-/ One brood alone I'm pretty sure would not be enough to take earth. I'm not even sure the OM would send just one. My guess is at least 34 broods would go and if the OM truely wants it he would dedicate at least half a dozen broods to it.

[DarkMirror]

Lets go with my figures, seeing as I started the thread. I don't want to get bogged down in technicalities. The Zerg have the FORCES to take the earth, but it all depends on the tactics they use and other events. Lets start speculating!

EDIT: 34 broods? Each brood is a cerebrate, and thats a team color. there arnt 34 broods :(

[Giggilyomeromicon]

It would take the entire Zerg race to take the planet...

[Dusty]

Dark thats due to game limitations....

[DarkMirror]

Your estimate is much to large Dusty. A brood is all the forces under a cerebrate, and thats more than enough to take a planet all pooled togethor. Just one. So stop arguing. I'm going with these figures, and if you keep discussing this then the thread is dead, and I'l;l be pissed. So please, get back on-topic.

[kongurous]

Broods number in the billions or millions. If an entire brood committed its whole force to Earth, it would... be a challenge for Nod and the GDI. Remember that both have fought a hive mind race of bugs before and won. The Zerg just aren't attracted to Tiberium. I'm not exactly sure how the Zerg ranks up with the Scrin (which, admittedly, were not prepared for fighting the humans), but the people of Earth aren't strangers to aliens and have orbital defenses. The Zerg have a very good chance of winning through sheer weight of numbers, though.

I voted for Command and Conquer, just to off-set the votes.

[DarkMirror]

I keep trying to tell them that. And yeah, I believe that the Zerg would still have a hard time. But I think that in the end they would win.

[Dusty]

Well guess now I can own up and say I for got to put to between 3 and 4....

Anyhow as far as tactics my guess is Blue Zones would be the first to fall as they are the Juiciest targets then conflict will spread into yellow zones where the NOD reign. Barring Kane seeing the Zerg as the next step in evolution the NOD would most likely bring out there big stuff. Tiberium chemical weapons, Flamethrowers, nukes, and all that fun Jazz. I actually see the NOD having a bigger chance then the GDI in this.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

I keep trying to tell them that. And yeah, I believe that the Zerg would still have a hard time. But I think that in the end they would win.

You never said that....

also, nukes

[DarkMirror]

Oh, of course! Its all a matter of how hard the Zerg try to get into the Yellow zones. Those places would severely weaken the Zerg, but they still have the advantage of superior numbers.

[kongurous]

You never said that....

also, nukes

Nod has them. Lots of them.

Dusty, the Zerg go where they won't be hassled so they can establish a base. They aren't looking to eat anyone or anything, and military targets aren't high on the agenda. They land, they infest, they overwhelm. There is no rhyme or reason to their tactics beyond 'massive swarm' and when you have at your disposal billions of expendable troops, massive swarm will win out.

Unless the command structure is destroyed (which is unlikely, as only the psionic Protoss blades can kill a Cerebrate)

[DarkMirror]

Actually, only Void powers can kill the Zerg Cerebrates, not the blades. The Void powers are the same the Overmind uses to reincarnate them.

[kongurous]

Actually, only Void powers can kill the Zerg Cerebrates, not the blades. The Void powers are the same the Overmind uses to reincarnate them.

Yeah, that's exactly why Dark Templar are the only ones capable of killing the Cerebrates.

Spoilers: their blades interrupt the connection between the Overmind and the Cerebrates so when the Cerebrate dies, it stays dead.

[Dusty]

The Blue zones would be idle for them as they hold a large populations and near no tiberium to hurt them. The GDI use mostly conventional weapons that they seen before used by terrans and are adapted against. There numbers would very much let them overwhelm the Blue areas with out much of a fight.

[DarkMirror]

Huh. Didn't know that detail. Well, lets keep thinking. The Nod, being in areas with higher Tiberium and having chemical based weapons would definitely have a better chance.

EDIT: And seeing as thew Terrans came from Earth, we are simply assuming that this is the Zergs first real contact with humans. wont work otherwise.

[kongurous]

The Blue zones would be idle for them as they hold a large populations and near no tiberium to hurt them. The GDI use mostly conventional weapons that they seen before used by terrans and are adapted against. There numbers would very much let them overwhelm the Blue areas with out much of a fight.

Someone's never played C&C3.

[West]

C&C gots long range weapons, but when they are at gun-point with zerg they most likely die because close-combat seems like a zerg specialty. humans gots nukes, chemical bombs, missles, and all of that. simply launch nukes at the hive mind, as that should be easy from space, and launch nukes, or use the Ion Cannon.
i think the humans would pwn them bad, even thought the terrans didn't:D
oh.. well zerg can just use overlords and mass-drop lings into blue areas around the planet, forcing the humans to have a hard time to populate/build factories, barracks, etc.

[Dusty]

I have it for the 360. The Zerg could land at every Zone at the same time and litterally overwhelm the GDI in a matter of days then proccede to infest outwards. The NOD cuaght them completly offguard and thats with a enemy they know how to handle. The Zerg are completly diffrent and most likely will show up with little to no warning.

[SilverCrusader]

Even if the Zerg were to be defeated more would be sent in its place. Besides that, C&C people don't have psionic powers like the Protoss to kill such an enemy. YES THE OVERMIND HAS PSIONIC POWERS:
Even though the Overmind has great psionic power, it does not give orders directly to individual minions.
So the chances of them killing a cerebrate completely is well... completely 0.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

The Blue zones would be idle for them as they hold a large populations and near no tiberium to hurt them. The GDI use mostly conventional weapons that they seen before used by terrans and are adapted against. There numbers would very much let them overwhelm the Blue areas with out much of a fight.

The Zerg wouldn't know the human weapons on account that this takes place hundreds of years before starcraft

[DarkMirror]

Yes, but they would learn. All it takes is a few overlords or queens surviving a conflict. Even with bombs and what not, the Zerg would still overwhelm them. The orbital installations are few, and not meant to defend from a space based attack.

[Dusty]

Rail Guns, Guass Rifles, and Tanks are found on GDI and Terrans As are missiles and rockets.

[SilverCrusader]

Yes, but the Terrans got raped by the Zerg, if it wasn't for the Protoss they would be obliterated by now.

[Mr.Bad]

A Zerg brood is in the thousands (sometimes millions), not billions...

Also, generally an assault force consists of several broods. There is normally a maine battle force brood, and a cleanup brood, at the least, with different broods specializing in different tasks. Read the manual, jeeze.

Now, I think the Zerg would win this particular battle. They'd pretty much infest the planet from the inside out. There's not a ton the C&C humans can do about it, aside from nuking their own planet to oblivion, and even then, Nukes aren't nearly as efficient as Protoss superlasers. If even one drone survives, the whole brood come back again.

[Aqo]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDQ_TwKNCEo
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4519/zergvz5.jpg
The number never stopped running.

[MatGeo]

Counter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv5ybRRz-vk&feature=related

"The Earth born Directorate has been destroyed..."

[Aqo]

The fact that humans with technology from 2872 failed to defeat the Zerg doesn't really help Nod and GDI.

[kongurous]

The fact that humans with technology from 2872 failed to defeat the Zerg doesn't really help Nod and GDI.

Two things.

1) Starcraft doesn't take place in 2872.

2) It was an expeditionary fleet using technology from the local sector. It was the only thing they had to use, and if the technology there couldn't beat the Zerg when used by the locals, what makes you think the UED could? You also aren't taking into account that the UED fucked up the Koprulu Sector pretty bad. So bad that it took the Terran Dominion, the Protoss, and Kerrigan to beat them.

[SilverCrusader]

1. C&C doesn't take place in StarCraft.

2. As a matter of fact, the Overmind held its forces at bay until after the Terran campaign. The Terran got wtfpwnt by a mere fraction of the Zerg forces. And if it wasn't for the Protoss, they would be well dead by now.

[Aqo]

Starcraft doesn't take place in 2872.
The number seemed wrong to me too, but then I must be missing something...

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/848/huhoj7.jpg

...if the technology there couldn't beat the Zerg when used by the locals, what makes you think the UED could?
This sentence makes no sense to me, I never said the UED could beat the Zerg, I was saying the opposite.

[Thedutchjelle]

From the Starcraft Manual:
Tiamat Brood
6.500.000 units

Fenris brood
5500 units

Baelrog brood
6000 units

Garm
10.000 units

Jormungand
3.000.000 units

Surtur
2.600.000 units

Well, those are the broods the overmind send to the Korpulu sector.

[kongurous]

The number seemed wrong to me too, but then I must be missing something...

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/848/huhoj7.jpg

No idea how you're getting 2872 out of that. Looks like 5.5.872 to me.


This sentence makes no sense to me, I never said the UED could beat the Zerg, I was saying the opposite.

Should have been more specific. Two human factions to think about and all.

[Ktan]

YES THE OVERMIND HAS PSIONIC POWERS:


I've never seen anything to prove that. It does have a base level of telepathy, which is obvious, so that could be classed as psionic but seriously not to the extent that you made out earlier.

I think this would be a fairer fight, down mainly to numbers and tactics of the Cerbrates/generals, so it's a lot more circumstantial.

[TheListener]

Injecting logic into this seems trivial.
I mean, wouldnt all the C&C races like attack one another as well as the zerg?
You might as well say Star Wars vs. Lord of the Rings. It would be a clusterfuck of everyone killing everyone.

[Thedutchjelle]

Star Wars vs. Lord of the Rings. It would be a clusterfuck of everyone killing everyone.
Oh god that would be epic.
and 'Clusterfuck' , I didn't knew that word before. It made me laugh :D

[MatGeo]

Star Wars vs. Lord of the Rings.

Vader owns girlish elves, tiny dwarfs, stupid humans, primitive orcs, and a couple of wizards.

[DarkMirror]

Balrog wtfpwns Vadar.

[kongurous]

Balrog wtfpwns Vadar.

Death Star > Balrog.