Sci Fi Showdown (BORG vs. ZERG)

[DarkMirror]

Who would win? The cybernetic, spacefaring Borg, or the entirely biological Zerg? My vote goes to the Zerg. While the borg are advanced, most of their defenses rely on shields that repel energy weapons, like phasers or photon rifles. The zerg, with claws and spines and other biological weapons could easily do some major damage. In ship to ship combat, the Borg may have greater super-ships, but everyone has better ships than the Zerg. However... a few well placed scourge could do massive damage.

Whats your opinion? Staying away from an all out battle scenario across the galaxy, which side would win in say, a battle for a planet?

[Dusty]

It truely depends on several factors. If borg manage to assimilate say a Zergling the Borg Queen with have Direct Contact with the Overmind/Kerrigan. You could pull that one down too who has the most mental and will power. Borg would WTFpwn the Zerg in a confrontation like that as they can direct all the resources of every Drones' mind into one problem. So meh. As for direct heads on battle it could really go eiether way barring Voyager from popping and magically finding the silver bullet to the zerg.

[DarkMirror]

The Overmind is a giant brain the size of a mountain. I think it can wistand a couple million drones, especially with the help of a few cerebrates. And I find it somewhat doubtful that they could even assimilate a Zerg in the first place.

There was a species known as 8472, it was entirely biologically based too. Their cells were basically impervious to the Borg Nanites.

[masterofhobbiton]

Zerg win, I think scourges would pwn borg cubes, and that's pretty much all the borg have got.

[Dusty]

Zerg win, I think scourges would pwn borg cubes, and that's pretty much all the borg have got.

If we want to get real into the Borg ship is able to operate even if 75% of it is dystroyed. Not to mention it would be difficult for the scorges to get past in coming fire and the sheer mass of a cube would do much to shield it from the blast. There is also the matter of which kind of cube.

Standerd cube?

Tactical Cube?

Sphere?

Diamond?

[Dusty]

The Overmind is a giant brain the size of a mountain. I think it can wistand a couple million drones, especially with the help of a few cerebrates. And I find it somewhat doubtful that they could even assimilate a Zerg in the first place.

There was a species known as 8472, it was entirely biologically based too. Their cells were basically impervious to the Borg Nanites.

But who's to say that the Zerg have a Immune system like 8472? Also it wouldn't be a few million try the billions or trillions.

[DarkMirror]

I'm just saying. They MIGHT have an immune system similar to Species. Its a possibility. And dont forget, scourge take down BCs and Carriers with no problem. Devourers slow down the systems of the Cube with their acidic spores, and then mutas start swarming them.

I still say the Zerg win.

[Faiien]

borg assimilates and kills
zerg assimilates and kills

zerg controlled by one mind
borg controlled by the collective

rebel zergs exist
rebel borgs exist

zergs are organic
borgs are mechanical/organic

zergs can adapt
borgs can adapt

zergs can reproduce through sex or w/e
borgs reproduce via assimilation

zerg travel through overlords and self flight
borg travel in cubes

zerg has defeated human army
borg has yet to defeat humans



aww so close but zerg wins XD

[SHISHKABOB]

I owned the Overmind with a couple reavers, Dark Templars and carriers. It's not very strong. The Zerg are quite numerous, but the Borg are just as numerous, and maybe even more so. Also they have lasers, giant ships that heal themselves and giant lasers on their huge ships. I think Borg win.

[King_Critter]

I watched a Star Trek movie with Borg in it... and the Borg are so effing cheesy. Seriously, it's like they're from a '40s budget sci-fi movie. Borg from sector six!

The Zerg, on the other hand... you call a Zergling cheesy and it bites your hand off.

[Tech]

I don't see how the Zerg can even imagine having a chance against the Borg. Technologically the Borg obviously outmatch the Zerg. So the Zerg are biological, I don't see how that means they can penetrate shields all of a sudden, even without shields, forcefields stop biological matter from passing though, so the Zerg are completely ineffective against ships, their only chance is against troops. Yet of course as soon as the Borg figure this out (so a matter of seconds) they just won't use troops.

Then as it's been said already, all it takes is one Zerg to be assimilated for every Zerg weakness to be known. However, even if we assume that the Zerg are equivalently impervious to assimilation as Species 8472, one major factor still plays out here. The Borg are trillions of minds thinking as one, the Zerg are trillions of minds following one. The Borg can adapt to and overcome pretty much any obstacle in a matter of seconds.

As far as the Borg not beating humans yet, that's a huge lie. The Borg may not have taken over earth yet, but they've assimilated plenty of humans over the years.

But of course as with most Sci-fi comparisons, these two come from different universes and were never meant to go against each other, so it's not exactly a fair fight.

[DarkMirror]

Lulz. The Zerg win. Oh, and BTW, the Zerg don't reproduce through sex. They simply need a larva, and they can turn into a gigantic stationary creature, some of which can make more creatures.
And the Zerg can beat shields. They can beat Protoss shields, so they can beat most other shields. They have scourge, wich do amazing amounts of damage to ships, so they use those to blow up the cubes.

[SHISHKABOB]

And how does that affect how well they do in battle against the Borg? I think you just raised an entirely useless point. Thanks.

Shields. Protoss shields, in reality, suck hardcore. The shields from Star Trek are crazy powerful. The ones on capital class ships could probably take several hits from a nuclear weapon. I don't think the Zerg could get off enough shots on the Borg shields to take them down. The Borg would just mow them down in space. I don't think the Zerg have many long range stellar weapons.

[DarkMirror]

I suppose. Whatever. I still like to think that the Zerg beat Borg.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

In Star Trek, their super powerful ship lasers don't even damage the Borg's shields. If we're going by your epic logic, then a Battlecruiser's laser from Starcraft would have the same effect as the laser from the Federation ship, it's going to take a lot of Battlecruisers to even touch the shields. Going by this logic, we can assume that Scourge barely effect the Borg Shields at the best.

The Zerg are native to only a very, very small portion of one galaxy. The Borg, however, are present in not only more of the Milky Way then the Zerg are, they inhabit more then one galaxy.... I wonder who out numbers the Zerg...

Also, the point's been raised before, the Zerg can't think as well as the Borg. They aren't a true hive mind and thusly can't react as well as the Borg to the given situation.

Right, the Zerg win.

Also, idea for the next thread. Tyranid vs Zerg :3

[Gunmonk]

The Overmind is a giant brain the size of a mountain. I think it can wistand a couple million drones, especially with the help of a few cerebrates. And I find it somewhat doubtful that they could even assimilate a Zerg in the first place.

There was a species known as 8472, it was entirely biologically based too. Their cells were basically impervious to the Borg Nanitevs.

Negated, species 8472 lived in fluidic space, not only that, but they also had far superior technology. Species 8472 were so advanced that their ships could destroy a borg cube in seconds, species 8472 were also extremely technologically advanced, which in comparrison to the zerg, is not accurate. anyone else care to challenge?

I'm just saying. They MIGHT have an immune system similar to Species. Its a possibility. And dont forget, scourge take down BCs and Carriers with no problem. Devourers slow down the systems of the Cube with their acidic spores, and then mutas start swarming them.

I still say the Zerg win.

ummmm... this might help


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hv4q-Ry6AE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwHs-n0q_zA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIaPZo6zyk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anMOQ3vTy9k&feature=related

These videos should help, they offer some insight as to why the borg would wtfpwn n00b the zerg.

borg assimilates and kills
zerg assimilates and kills

zerg controlled by one mind
borg controlled by the collective

rebel zergs exist
rebel borgs exist

zergs are organic
borgs are mechanical/organic

zergs can adapt
borgs can adapt

zergs can reproduce through sex or w/e
borgs reproduce via assimilation

zerg travel through overlords and self flight
borg travel in cubes

zerg has defeated human army
borg has yet to defeat humans



aww so close but zerg wins XD

If you have ever seen first contact, then you would know that the borg do win.


Lulz. The Zerg win. Oh, and BTW, the Zerg don't reproduce through sex. They simply need a larva, and they can turn into a gigantic stationary creature, some of which can make more creatures.
And the Zerg can beat shields. They can beat Protoss shields, so they can beat most other shields. They have scourge, wich do amazing amounts of damage to ships, so they use those to blow up the cubes.


if you have ever watched a naval fight between the borg and even the vulcans, you would know that the zerg are sol

[Faiien]

If you have ever seen first contact, then you would know that the borg do win.first contact doesnt count you cheater :P

[Ktan]

zerg has defeated human army
borg has yet to defeat humans


Initially, your post was not not the best way to conduct an argument.

However, and please don't be too offended by this next bit, but...

Are you f*cking serious?

Borg WTFPWN humans. Most of the Borg attacks on Earth have been narrow victories to the humans, IIRC, and this is also considering that ST tech probably far outstrips that of SC tech. That, and I'm sure plenty of human settlements have been ruined by the Borg, as well as plenty of other alien races.

Back to the crux of the argument.

Truly, the only advantage the Zerg have is their potential at negating shields, but the Borg use very powerful energy weapons anyway and the Zerg still have to overcome the very powerful armour all Borg posses anyway. The Borg weapons would pulverise the Zerg in a fair firefight. Also, what's to say the Borg couldn't adapt their tactics to avoid the advantages the Zerg have, as highlighted by Tech?

A farmer's pitchfork can kill a Zergling. Good look trying to even wound a Borg with one of those. I have only the most basic knowledge of the Borg, but that's all you need to see that they'd simply WTFpwn the Zerg

Also, do we have a numerical comparison? As far as I know, the Zerg aren't really numerous enough to take the Borg even if their tech was up to scratching the Borg.



And Tyranids own the face off the Zerg.

[Black.Ice]

You're comparing two completely different things. The Borg would win, hands down.

Think about it, the Borg are in a time frame that's completely advanced. The terrans about two centuries or so ahead of our current technology. They still use guns and stuff like that. The Federation, or the humans of the Star Trek galaxy are four centuries ahead. And the Borg are like incredibly advanced compared to the Federation.

Shields, as mentioned earlier in this thread, are a lot stronger than the ones in Star Trek. Think about it, the Battlecruiser even makes fun of this. Keep clicking on him, he'll make a Star Trek shields reference. "Shields Up, Weapons Operational." "What do you mean, we don't have shields?" or something like that.

Missiles bounce off of Federation shields like they're nothing. In a few episodes, they're being attacked by an inferior race and they have their shields raised and they don't even feel the nuclear blasts + missles that are ricocheting off their shields.

Now, the borg are just like the Federation but 10x stronger. The Zerg organic ships wouldn't even be able to penetrate the shields of a Borg ship. Even if they were able to board the ship, the sectional forcefields of the ship would prevent them from doing any damage. And remember, Borg have forcefields around everything. Planets included.

The entire reason that species 8472 was a problem was because of the multidimensional rifts that were going through their shields. The Zerg don't have anything like that to give them the advantage

Pretty much in the Star Trek universe, all types of physical weapons are obsolete. I mean, what is a Zerg gonna do? Send a Mutalisk that shoots a Glaive Worm at a Borg ship? Seriously. The Zerg do not have any energy weapons and wouldn't even be able to penetrate the outer defenses of any Borg.

[SilverCrusader]

The Borg aren't the only ones who assimilate:
In order to continue finding new species to assimilate, the Zerg needed to leave Zerus, and travel to new worlds. Extending its senses into space, the Overmind discovered enormous space-faring organisms. It lured them to Zerus, using its psychic abilities, and assimilated them into the Swarm. Soon, all the Zerg had the ability to travel between worlds, with the aid of reinforced carapaces to counter the vacuum of space. The Xel'Naga considered this achievement a triumph; the Zerg had conquered their world, and were poised to do the same to others—all while still holding onto their purity of essence.

A farmer's pitchfork can kill a Zergling. Good look trying to even wound a Borg with one of those. I have only the most basic knowledge of the Borg, but that's all you need to see that they'd simply WTFpwn the Zerg
No, the pitchfork won't do anything. Their biological armor is just as hard as any other metallic alloy.

Besides, they couldn't possibly take on the overmind. The only reason it died was because of the psionic powers that Tassadar wielded. The borg have absolutely no psionic powers in which to combat the Zerg. And the Zerg can easily replicate 100x faster than the borg.

[IrishDutchman]

And Tyranids own the face off the Zerg.

Agreed. But WH40K is basically Starcraft on steroids, so that's not very surprising. (or SC is a weakened down version of WH40K, depending on which universe you like better :P)

[SolidSamurai]

It truely depends on several factors. If borg manage to assimilate say a Zergling the Borg Queen with have Direct Contact with the Overmind/Kerrigan. You could pull that one down too who has the most mental and will power. Borg would WTFpwn the Zerg in a confrontation like that as they can direct all the resources of every Drones' mind into one problem. So meh. As for direct heads on battle it could really go eiether way barring Voyager from popping and magically finding the silver bullet to the zerg.

The zerg don't really have a silver bullet considering they consist of many genomes, and are consistently adapting at all times. A single zergling could easily cut off its own nerve. Once it loses contact with the overmind, it becomes an animal anyway, so really it'd be like another fly in just one hurricane (not including several other storms).

WH40k has its weaknesses too, such as the ridiculous fact that a battleship needs like a million guys to operate. Also, there's the time difference, and the quiet fact that WH40k is set in a fantasy universe (humans advanced, elves and shit died off, and then space orks came around).

It all depends though, could a bunch of humans in a starship (voyager) discover what the DTs discovered, barring of course that no other terran in a starship could have possibly realised it?

Who said a farmer's pitchfork could kill a zergling? Who said protoss shields are weak as hell? Thanks guys for making bland statements without too much back up aside from shitty fan fiction, and game balance (nuclear warhead can take out carrier shields, boo hiss). BTW, you know what a glave wurm is? It's a bunch of little organic nanites, made to chew. It looks like 3 on a ball because that's the 'bomb' that bounces and sheds the little bat creatures.

[Dusty]

For those saying that the borg couldn't compete with the overmind I would just like to point out that the UED Enslaved the overmind using Drugs and Ghosts. Borg have assimilated species with psionic powers and they have Nanites to replace the drugs.

[SHISHKABOB]

Nastyape, I want to hit you very badly right now.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

WH40k has its weaknesses too, such as the ridiculous fact that a battleship needs like a million guys to operate. Also, there's the time difference, and the quiet fact that WH40k is set in a fantasy universe (humans advanced, elves and shit died off, and then space orks came around).

Congratulations on proving that you know nothing about Warhammer 40k.

Besides, they couldn't possibly take on the overmind. The only reason it died was because of the psionic powers that Tassadar wielded. The borg have absolutely no psionic powers in which to combat the Zerg. And the Zerg can easily replicate 100x faster than the borg.

I was pretty sure the Overmind died when he crashed his gigantic spaceship into it, and blew it up. I could be wrong, though.

[SolidSamurai]

Yah I know dude, but explain anyway.

What I do know is that the hummies apparently need some kinda of beam of light from earth to guide them every time they gotta warp, otherwise they'd get space raped by space demons.

[Ktan]

No, the pitchfork won't do anything. Their biological armor is just as hard as any other metallic alloy.


As far as I know, it happened in one of the books, which is one of the arguments I saw cited elsewhere. Books = canon so pitchforks CAN kill Zerglings.

Also, steel is a metallic alloy, but a thin sheet could be torn by a pitchfork, so simply saying 'as hard as a metallic alloy' does not make it invulnerable without further qualification.

That, and Zerglings obviously have weak areas, where there armour does not cover. Aside from shields, I doubt Borg have such similar issues.


And SolidSamurai, a ship may take thousands to operate, but aside from being able to devastate whole worlds, one ship operated by thousands probably doesn't even require 1% of the population of one small hive spire

Relatively, it's not a weakness, merely and inconvenient necessity. That, and most ships are helped immensely by automated servitors.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

What I do know is that the hummies apparently need some kinda of beam of light from earth to guide them every time they gotta warp, otherwise they'd get space raped by space demons.

....no, they need Earth's navigation system so every time they enter warp they reach their intended destination...

[Mr.Bad]

I would disagree that the zerg can replicate faster. While the Zerg may produce more minions than the Borg produce drones on a planet for planet scale, the Borg own Galaxies, and Assimilate entire planets. I can't remember exactly where, but somewhere in the Starcraft books, theres a reference to most Zerg broods containing minions varying from the thousands to the millions. In one Star Trek episode, there was a reference to the Borg sacrificing more than a billion drones to conduct an experiment. The Zerg don't have many more minions than that. But to the Borg, it was only a small price to pay.

That's not even including that fact that one Borg Cube could probably take on the entire Swarm by itself.

[SilverCrusader]

That's not even including that fact that one Borg Cube could probably take on the entire Swarm by itself.
one million scourges = What cube?

Besides, the overmind could just mass psionic storm the hell out of anything that comes near it. And since the borg are cyborg... well...

And who said something about connecting with the overmind? You need to have psionic powers in order to do that, and very strong ones at that.

[kongurous]

....no, they need Earth's navigation system so every time they enter warp they reach their intended destination...

Not exactly. The Astronomican is a psychic reference point in the warp that the navigators and astropaths of the Imperial ships use. Without this reference point, they have absolutely no idea where they're going. It's like a light house on a night with no stars and a rocky shoreline. The light house is a reference point to moving your ships and it illuminates the coast line so you can see the rocks and avoid them.

Let's get off the subject of 40k now, alright?

[DarkMirror]

I doubt that. The zerg would slowly wear down armor with scourge and devourers, then take them on. And The borg don't have the psionic powers necessary to kill a cerebrate, let alone the overmind.

I will admit that the borg are pretty damn powerful, but the zerg could still do some damage.

[Ktan]

one million scourges = What cube?

Besides, the overmind could just mass psionic storm the hell out of anything that comes near it. And since the borg are cyborg... well...

And who said something about connecting with the overmind? You need to have psionic powers in order to do that, and very strong ones at that.

The zerg, before the events of SC, according to the manual have 12,121,500 minions. 12 Million minions. This is not even the population of Britain, indeed, it's little more than the population of London. I doubt the Zerg really have 1 million Scourge then, and even then, aside from the formidible defences of one cube, there are plenty of cubes of many sizes out there.

That, and the Overmind doesn't have psionic storm, or indeed any powerful psionic aptitude. This is precisely the reason it targeted the Terrans, who were evolving psionics, case in point being Kerrigan, Queen of Blades.

Also, the Borg don't have to wipe out the Overmind if they decimate the entire Zerg race. That, and, depending on the timeline, the Overmind could already be dead.

Zerg are not psionic. Name one psionic ability that the swarm possesses that isn't owned by Kerrigan. Yes, it has a low level telepathy, but nowhere near the psionic aptitude you are crediting it to have.

Just face it, the Borg have the Zerg outgunned, and probably outnumbered. Unless the Zerg have some astounding strength, which we have not been able to divine, they stand no chance.

[Giggilyomeromicon]

I doubt that. The zerg would slowly wear down armor with scourge and devourers, then take them on. And The borg don't have the psionic powers necessary to kill a cerebrate, let alone the overmind.

I will admit that the borg are pretty damn powerful, but the zerg could still do some damage.

The Zerg lack the numbers to beat the Borg through brute force, and it doesen't take psychic powers to kill someone.

That, and the Borg have psychic powers from some of the races they've assimilated.

[SHISHKABOB]

Too... many, stupid people... arrrgh.


SilverCrusader: if the Overmind could just psionic storm everything around it, then how the hell did the Humans and the protoss kill it?

Scourges are like what, the damage of a couple missile hits? I *THINK* the photon missile thingies from Star Trek are more powerful than high-grade nuclear weapons. /me hides from trekkies. Borg cubes can take a lot of photon missiles. That's just their shields. Maybe the scourges could take out a cube. But then the Borg would be like, "hmm, turn the shield thinger like this and... BAM!" The shields completely block any scourges from passing through. Then the scourges can't even TOUGH the Borg.

[Mr.Bad]

2 million scourges couldn't even reach the Borg Cube, and if they did, they're running into its shields again. Assuming theat they could somehow get past those, what makes you even think that that would kill the cube? Cubes work even when 75% of them are destroyed, and they're damn huge. Also, the forcefields everywhere would stop the explosions from spreading.

And why do you think that somehow perpetually bombarding Borg Shields will amke them break? Borg shields don't break, they're invincible. The only way to hurt them are to hit them with something they haven't seen before, and then it only takes a couple of seconds for them to adapt, and they are once again indestructible.

Oh, and Ktan, the zerg have a lot more than 2 million minions, although probably considerably less than 1 billion.

[Ktan]

I know, I fixed that. Note, my figures are pre-Tassadar xD

I *THINK* the photon missile thingies from Star Trek are more powerful than high-grade nuclear weapons.

Since they work on the concept of antimatter annihilation, yes.

Much more powerful.

[Gunmonk]

You're comparing two completely different things. The Borg would win, hands down.

Think about it, the Borg are in a time frame that's completely advanced. The terrans about two centuries or so ahead of our current technology. They still use guns and stuff like that. The Federation, or the humans of the Star Trek galaxy are four centuries ahead. And the Borg are like incredibly advanced compared to the Federation.

Shields, as mentioned earlier in this thread, are a lot stronger than the ones in Star Trek. Think about it, the Battlecruiser even makes fun of this. Keep clicking on him, he'll make a Star Trek shields reference. "Shields Up, Weapons Operational." "What do you mean, we don't have shields?" or something like that.

Missiles bounce off of Federation shields like they're nothing. In a few episodes, they're being attacked by an inferior race and they have their shields raised and they don't even feel the nuclear blasts + missles that are ricocheting off their shields.

Now, the borg are just like the Federation but 10x stronger. The Zerg organic ships wouldn't even be able to penetrate the shields of a Borg ship. Even if they were able to board the ship, the sectional forcefields of the ship would prevent them from doing any damage. And remember, Borg have forcefields around everything. Planets included.

The entire reason that species 8472 was a problem was because of the multidimensional rifts that were going through their shields. The Zerg don't have anything like that to give them the advantage

Pretty much in the Star Trek universe, all types of physical weapons are obsolete. I mean, what is a Zerg gonna do? Send a Mutalisk that shoots a Glaive Worm at a Borg ship? Seriously. The Zerg do not have any energy weapons and wouldn't even be able to penetrate the outer defenses of any Borg.

Actually I just sorta thought of this, the borg cant adapt to biological attacks, such as melee, so it is highly possible that zerglings and ultralisks would have the melee advantage there. Also as far as I know, the borg can only adapt to energy attacks (phasers, photon torps, and the like) which could quite easily mean that hydras and all other missle oriented creatures within the swarm might have a chance, however since to me it comes to purity of form and purity of form and technology, it seems like it would only be a battle of numbers, and given the fact that the borg can assimilate, if they could somehow get a cerebrate, it would be downhill for the zerg from there

[DarkMirror]

Ugh. I suppose your all right, but the voters cant decide. I still think the Zerg are cooler. I wonder what would be a better match? They would wtfpwn the humans from Command and Conquer.

[Protogod]

Borg numbers are greater, borg territory is greater, unlike the Terran/Protoss, borg are not centralized, making it impossible to perform any traditional zerg maneuver, and finally, the borg are just more effective/efficient in combat.

I see no way that the Zerg could win, even IF the overmind had psionic storm, which it doesnt even come close to having.

[DarkMirror]

Its been decided. Borg win. Maybe lock the thread, and let me launch the next one?

[Dusty]

I think most of the people voting are simply doing voting for there favorite race not who would logically win....

[Mr.Bad]

Yea, no crap, otherwise it would be 19-0

[DarkMirror]

actually, 18-1. I still voted zerg. But ah well. Onwards and upwards.

[Neo]

How did I miss this thread?

O_O

Lasers, wtf.

Cmon, Phasers? Quantum Torpedoes (well federation side), etc...

By the way. Considering that there are races in Star Trek that has Psionic powers (Betazoids for example), then it stands to reason that the Borg have assimilated species with psionic powers.

=p

-Neo

[TheListener]

Robots > All

[Dusty]

But there not Robots. There Cyborgs. Pretty much robots but they still have biological Components.