Stacraft Universe Strategy Game

[femoimal]

What about designing a Starcraft Strategy Game ?

To help you visualize what i am talking about, i am thinking of Master of Orion and Star-Wars Rebellion.

It would be a slow-paced real-time game (no click-fest, but with some time pressure) of Galactic scale. You take command of a race, and expand across planets. You colonize some, invade others, research your tech-tree. There is 3d space combat (slow paced too, as empire at war i presume), but ground combat is summarized (lets not beat SC where it is strong). You have leaders you can assign on missions, random events etc... etc... Ah, there might be another race too (like the Xel Naga intelligent robots or anything). But the technicals are not important yet.

I see it fast and rich, swift but imaginative, faithful but horizon-opening. It would be free, available for download online, and multi-player if possible.



my questions are thus:

1- do you think it might be interesting at all, would you play it ?

2- do you think that legally it would be a dead-end and that blizzard would at best ask us to shut it down or most likely unleash its lawyers, so its all in vain ?

3- if we where to prototype this game, how would you like to contribute ?


-

[XarthatXio]

1- I was playing Master of Orion for some time, but one thing that was mostly repulsive in it (to me) was that whole the galaxy, stars, planets etc. were completely random! If you could make the mode with a pre-placed stars etc. I would play it, but with only randomly generated- I would not. (However randomly generated galaxy would be nice as mode for MP)
2- If you will release it as freeware, I don't think they would.
3- Sorry for my language ignorancy but I don't know what means "prototype" as a verb. As a noun- I understand, but as a verb- I'm completely confused.

I suggest you (in mentioned "scenario" mode) to make possible steer any of the factions, not only the races. If you want ideas for additional races- it might be Kalathi and/or a stone-like sentient silicoid species (more similar to the original Sillicoids of MoO2, not these crystals from MoO3), slightly improved by my ideas. If you liked these suggestions, PM me, I'll tell ya' more.

[DarkMirror]

Why the FUCK would we put in races of rock people? This is supposed to be a Starcraft game. I suggest keeping it to the three races and a few factions for each.

[XarthatXio]

Easy, guy. He was asking over additional races and I replied with my idea for it, it's all.

[femoimal]

sorry for the pseudo-technical language:

- to prototype a game is like...making a working prototype of it. Others call it alpha version, or pre-alpha. Others a maquette. It is about setting the tone, the interface principles and most importantly the game dynamics. The development time for this game should be short so as to keep us motivated. I would like to avoid much more than a trimester of prototyping.

(i have about 40 alien races ready from another game i prepared. Rocks included :P But here we navigate in starcraft, so we stick to the storyline. We could include all stories [of all games] and units (even the ones dropped) , and add some more, but we should keep in line with the universe).

[XarthatXio]

So, it should be the Kalathi, maybe something medusa-like? Medusas are sometimes intelligent (as for an invertebrate)

To contribute? You ask us to coding it? Testing it? Sorry, I'm not a native english speaker and have some things hard to understand.

[U-238]

my questions are thus:

1- do you think it might be interesting at all, would you play it ?

2- do you think that legally it would be a dead-end and that blizzard would at best ask us to shut it down or most likely unleash its lawyers, so its all in vain ?

3- if we where to prototype this game, how would you like to contribute ?

1 - It's something I definitely would look into/try out. It could be fairly interesting over all.

2 - Not sure there. I don't really know how tight blizzard is with their copyrights but it's something you should look into before even starting.

3 - Not sure there. I could to modeling and maybe some texturing. (you said it'd be in 3d?) But I'm still fairly new to attempting high quality/professional work.

One question I have for you. If it's going to be freely downloadable from the internet would it be open source?

[femoimal]

XarthatXio, contributions could include, from the most complex and needed to the simplest (but needed too!)

0- project manager
1- game designer(s), to prepare the game on paper before we start
2- programming : lead programmer, programmer
even someone specialized in internet protocols or multiplayer stuff
3- art director, in charge of coordinating arts
4- artists : 3d/2d, interface
5- sound artist
6- testers

codewise, i do not know yet how to code the game. I have some light experience of macromedia director. It has a 3d engine (old but faithful), pretty good multimedia capability and is simple to program. It even has multiplayer capabilities online. Unfortunately, it has small penetration in the marketplace. Of course, if someone has other ideas or propositions....

graphically, I'd suggest, for starters, sprites for units and icons, and some 3d models of large ships/ planets /moons for the space battles. Ground warfare would be simplified (how, its an open question) so as not to require complex 3d animations and models.

everyone could contribute. For instance, by gathering info on the universe : existing planets and their geology. Heroes and their powers. Factions. Technologies (for instance, how differently the 3 races travel in space ? )

etc etc.


well dear isotope, i hope you find it more the fairly interesting :P The 3d would be low polygons of course (ideal occasion to learn to do optimized models for gaming purposes).
opensource ? dunno. depends on the programming platform. It will be open-design...

[XarthatXio]

I could take on designing the project "on paper". Well, the design is my strongest side, while making it to come into reality is a bit different thing...

Kalathi are part of a SC canon (look to the SC-section thread about "the missing enemy") and they were living somewhere between Aiur and Koprulu Sector. Do you include Kalathi as playable?

[femoimal]

- the game design will be a common effort, and the most difficult one. Its surprising to see how different people perceive same things in a different way :) The most interesting thing about it is catering for the actual way the game is played. (Race balance will be very much helped by taking SC settings in account, btw)

- as for the kalathi, i am not expert in SC canon, but here i can see potential. Races might be major and minor. Perhaps the Kalathi might be non playable races fixed on a planet or small federation. Dunno yet. Minor races might be a booty for the zergs as their way to crawl upwards in their tech tree would be to absorb minor races and tweak em (see the effect on game design? zergs would be different to play then). Protoss on the other hand would avoid interfering.

[XarthatXio]

What about the time placement of the game? It would begin when SC began, or after SC:BW, or at the beginning of SC2 or when?

And one more: what about Earth? Playable UED?

[femoimal]

hahahaha XarthatXio you ask too much of me. We still have to see if it is doable ! Your enthusiasm is marvelous but i cannot answer yet.

time placement : dunno. I would be fun to get overminds as well as kerrigan. Perhaps middle of first starcraft would be sensible. So as to get a non-infested kerrigan as hero, but then witness her switch sides (but if she gets killed?). Then again,maybe another overmind and cerebrates might pop up.

I would definitely like to include Earth in the game, as it gives a familiar anchor to the hole map and plot.

Those issues are a bit far-away though. Let's see first if game there will be, and how it will be played. Scenario details will follow naturally. follow ;)

[XarthatXio]

Just asking for the general idea, I was thinking that I am asking for most basic aspects. But if it's still so raw, I will wait, of course.

[SgtHK]

I would definitely like to include Earth in the game, as it gives a familiar anchor to the hole map and plot.

Lol, but Earth would be like 60,000 light years away from the Korpulu Sector.

[XarthatXio]

Maybe kind of interstellar portal?

[DarkMirror]

BTW, Kalathi are all dead. Total genocide by the protoss in an effort to help.

We only need the three core races, not a bunch of made up ones. If you put them in, I will have to say you have ruined the concept.

[XarthatXio]

But if the game's storyline began before the Kalathi Intercession, they should be somewhere.

[DarkMirror]

That happened before vanilla, by at least a hundred years.

[XarthatXio]

I know. Why not set the time then, making player able to relive the history of the Protoss?

[SilverCrusader]

I could be a programmer.

The first step would to be to find a 3D RTS engine... or 2D.

[DarkMirror]

Then the game would be about the toss, not SC. Lets just keep it Zerg, Terran, toss.

[U-238]

well dear isotope, i hope you find it more the fairly interesting

That was meant as a compliment. -.-

The 3d would be low polygons of course (ideal occasion to learn to do optimized models for gaming purposes).

oh! goody! What better way to learn than from a pro? :D

opensource ? dunno. depends on the programming platform. It will be open-design...

True. I just like the idea of interested people being able to tinker around without actually joining "the team" per-say. That way there may be a great idea that comes up from a person who we might be able to persuade to either join "the team" or at least allow us to incorporate their idea into the game.

[femoimal]

Silvercrusader, that is great news. I will not hide you the fact that it is the programming that worries me most. Indeed we do need an engine. Two solutions here.
- One, we use an advanced multimedia tool. Flash, Director, or others i do not know. Personaly i can manage some Director, but would need serious help.
-Two, we make one (or re-use one already developed by some participant), in a language like C++ with grafix libs, or in another more evolved language. Seems too much to ask and sort-of kills the fast development times.
-Three (a-ha! i said two), we can mod an existing engine from another game. That last solution is a total unknown to me.


hahah u-238, i am not a pro. I just happened to see pros at work, and trying to learn a bit how it goes. I mostly did object design back there, some game design and minor objects modeling. Even touched level-design.

- i would side with darkmirror. Lets keep things simple. The major actors are all known, and should remain the same. Nevertheless, from what you read, the 3 warring factions do not really advance in an empty universe. It is full of life. Mostly unintelligent, but sometimes sentient.
Also, zergs have this genetic absorption capability : if you sterilise the universe, they are at a disadvantage. One solution, as i hinted before, would be to seed the universe with minor computer-driven species the player could interact with (absorb, eliminate, make a treaty or just try to communicate, they might have some info).

- sgtHK, 60.000 light years might not be so far away. If planets are topologically arranged in clusters, me might have some groups far away but still playable (because they have other planets close). Protoss, zergs and terrans have by now all discovered fast-than-light (FTL) travel. So distance should not be an issue, as long as the density of the universe and the travel times make for a planetary configuration with chokepoints, sidelanes and strategic clusters. Ah, and the universe will be generated randomly, around some anchor points provided by the gamestory (with some random adjustements, so every game is different) (again, look at 'empire at war' kinds of game).
And the idea of this game is to enlarge the scope. Not including the Earth would be a serious mistake. Imagine you playing the zerg and infesting the entire Earth : hehehe.

[SgtHK]

- sgtHK, 60.000 light years might not be so far away. If planets are topologically arranged in clusters, me might have some groups far away but still playable (because they have other planets close). Protoss, zergs and terrans have by now all discovered fast-than-light (FTL) travel. So distance should not be an issue, as long as the density of the universe and the travel times make for a planetary configuration with chokepoints, sidelanes and strategic clusters. Ah, and the universe will be generated randomly, around some anchor points provided by the gamestory (with some random adjustements, so every game is different) (again, look at 'empire at war' kinds of game).
And the idea of this game is to enlarge the scope. Not including the Earth would be a serious mistake. Imagine you playing the zerg and infesting the entire Earth : hehehe.

60,000 light years is majorly far far away. Remember the four original Terran vessels which took off from Earth? Because of their navigational system malfunction, they went past their supposed destination and travelled through space at faster-than-light speeds for 33 years. And remember that the official info Blizzard gave to us was that the Korpulu sector was 60,000 light-years from Earth.

[femoimal]

do you really believe stukov left earth as a toddler ? i doubt it. Or really the UED is a hell of an organiser ! Or, perhaps, you mean 33 years for the outside observers ? Anyhow, the galaxy is about 100.000 LY in diameter. Let's own that baby :P
blizzard had no problem inserting the earth into broodwar. We shouldn't either, we are ressourceful lads, aren't we ?

(i suppose there are many different FTL devices or FTL speeds)

[SilverCrusader]

I'm a beginner programmer, so I'm hoping to learn A LOT while doing this project.
Designing our own engine is completely out of the picture. Flash is well... A no. That leaves me to find a free (Or cheap) game engine. I have to look at some engines. I do have a good experience in game engine features, seeing as I researched all about the different ones and such for a year or two. I'm thinking torque.

[femoimal]

crusader, feel free to update me while you search ! i also have some coding knowledge and would be very interesting in knowing what you find !

[SilverCrusader]

This isn't commercial right?

Well anyway.
This is Horde3D (http://www.nextgen-engine.net/home.html).

[SolidSamurai]

For units, you should probably include additional space units for all races, aside from the ones that already exist.

Terran: You could include support vessels, shuttles, various frigates, destroyers, cruisers, and battleships (the largest standard ships aside from flagships), as well as battlecruisers (as the standard heavy assault vessels). Technology and scientific advancement would have larger trees, similar to galactic civ (or whatever game you wanna abide by).

It may be inconvenient for battleships to exist in atmosphere due to the nature of their weaponry or whatever else.

Protoss: We'd go a similar route as the terran, however you can vary in whatever way you want. There could be more smaller vessels for protos as well as robotics (makes sense, considering the terran had a history for large vessel warfare prior to SC vanilla).

The Terran and Protoss could have flaships, which are essentially uber large ships that a player can pool developmental effort (research, manufacturing, etc.), towards. They could have a unique look and name, though the look may be asking too much, who knows.

Zerg: Various large monstrosities will be added to the list of air units that already exist. Of course, you can assume these space monsters can't survive in atmosphere, otherwise they'd be pwning newbs left and right on melee maps.

BTW, fern, the milky way is more like a dozen million light years across. Cubic, it probably falls into the billions. And sgtHK, FTL could be Warp 30 or anything else (ie. warp 30 = 60,000/30 = 2000 years to traverse 60k light years; the actual speed the 4 vessels travelled is probably between warp 2500 - 3000, Of course this strategy game might occur in turns of weeks or months, and assuming tech trees will allow faster versions of warp travel with larger spaceships, etc., etc.).

[SolidSamurai]

For units, you should probably include additional space units for all races, aside from the ones that already exist.

Terran: You could include support vessels, shuttles, various frigates, destroyers, cruisers, and battleships (the largest ships), as well as battlecruisers (as the standard heavy assault vessels). Technology and scientific advancement would have larger trees, similar to galactic civ (or whatever game you wanna abide by).

It may be inconvenient for battleships to exist in atmosphere due to the nature of their weaponry or whatever else.

Protoss: We'd go a similar route as the terran, however you can vary in whatever way you want. There could be more smaller vessels for protoss as well as robotics (makes sense, considering the terran had a history for large vessel warfare prior to SC vanilla).

Zerg: Various large monstrosities will be added to the list of air units that already exist. Of course, you can assume these space monsters can't survive in atmosphere, otherwise they'd be pwning newbs left and right on melee maps.

cripes double post ololol

[U-238]

60,000 light years is majorly far far away. Remember the four original Terran vessels which took off from Earth? Because of their navigational system malfunction, they went past their supposed destination and travelled through space at faster-than-light speeds for 33 years. And remember that the official info Blizzard gave to us was that the Korpulu sector was 60,000 light-years from Earth.

One minor flaw in your logic: It says that they traveled 33 years yes. However remember we are talking about screwed up navigational equipment. Who knows how many times they went in and out of the korprulu sector let alone passed the planet Tarsonis?

[RavenCrusade]

Well I couldn't help but read through this topic, and although I'm no programmer, I personally think this game would be more do-able if it were set entirely in space.
We've all seen what repeats of the same thing can do to a series, and I think Starcraft has pretty much covered ground battles. I'm no saying I wouldn't like to see it in another game, but let's be realistic when talking about our limits. It'll be hard enough to make this game solely in space.

Secondly, I think that it should be set either before or after the events during the SC series. This is because I think people would enjoy a new plot more than the same one from Starcraft. I think that almost all planets mentioned in the SC series should be anchored, even if they aren't important to the plot. It's important that games not be repetative, but don't make them moronic. I don't want to play a strategy game where I start off only a few turns away from defeating a large enemy outpost randomly generated near my home planet.

I think that it might be a good idea to combine the random events with the non-playable races. I think it would be cool for Terrans to discover a planet where they find maps of the nearby system, or Zerg to assimilate a native race of alien creatures.

That is just my opinion, I'm sure there will be objections but my job is to raise questions, not take a side.

[femoimal]

- Solid Samurai, you hit the jackpot here ! I totally agree with your suggestions, and have already been thinking about those.

- indeed, the terran would develop fleets. World war 2 style. They would not be able to land on planets but would be able to provide fire support there. Shuttles would be stored in them to provide Landing Craft capabilities (LCT and LCI for ww2 fans). All those craft would be full of angles, have like gigantic shark mouths, cool splinter camo and lots of big thrusters. Real poetry.
i'd like to include units with a role. Frigates for recce, destroyers for escorts and flank attacks, cruisers for mainstay power and capital ships for flinging extra masculinity in space.

- Protoss are easy, fleetwise. They already have fleet trains. I'd go for many small robotic (unmanned) vehicles, as you said, and some large specialized ones. They might have to create warpgates to make way for the large ships, or just to travel faster.

- Zergs are more difficult. Alright, for a starters i would personally not like to get a muta flying in the void. Guardians might levitate using a Magneto-hydro-dynamic effect, but i would like to respect physics here, just a tad. Zergs have to breath... do they ?
Yes and No, overlords are a breed that can survive and even perhaps thrive in space. Hardened carapace, energy sensors and radiation-resistant, they are the main transports and local headquarters of zerg forces. It is still a bit on the thin side. Zergs could use spores flung across space, or asteroids (like starship troopers). They could evolve monstroliths, or monstrolisks (or whatever) like gigantic stone monsters that can act as capital ships. Their armament would be gigantic eyes (lenses) that burn one producing some laser beams (or gravitonic shockwaves or else).
anyhow, i still do not exactly remember how they travel in space. Is it the overlords, the overmind or anything else that warps space, creates a rift in it and allows them to warp ? Anyone has more suggestions or precisions ?

The point is that the 3 races need to travel in a different way, for different gameplay purposes. Even development, or tech-research has to be differently handled.



okay, questions, sharpen your pens:


1- find 3 different styles of FTL travel for the 3 races. (some of them might be upgradeable. Tell us into what). Hint : traveling between stars might take months (in normal game speed, a handful of minutes), and there might be 2 phases : one of preparation/calculation/rifting/wormholing you might interrupt, and one of actual travel that you cannot.

2- Find 3 different styles of tech research.

3- A bit harder now. How can you differentiate development/building gameplay for the 3 races , in a strategy game ?



PS: this is not commercial :P Its about making a game that you would liked to have and play ! It is about spreading creep all over the galaxy, commanding fleets and exploring planets.

PS2: solidsamurai:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way
the milky Way IS 100.000 LY in diameter (or about). Yes its tiny isn't it ?

PS3: RavenCrusade, i cannot agree more with you. When making a game, it is important to put solid limits in order to channel your ideas, work and energy. Ground combat will not be treated as SC does. It will be summarized. How, i do not exactly know, and would like to discuss it later with you guys. All i know so far is that i would like it to be more complex than the board game, more complex than Master Of orion 2 and 3, but waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay simpler than SC. It would be like a quick game of chess, perhaps. The point would be to use terrain (unlike space, where there is none, if you do not mind the relative positions of planets and moons).

[SgtHK]

Well if you really wanna insist on including Earth, then you'd better have a very good in-game explaination for doing so. cheers! :)

[XarthatXio]

In-game explanation could be that the UED just need to take their command from somewhere, directly from Earth

Protoss travel- kind of foton-based engine or warping in and out
Terran travel- nuclear-empowered engine?
Zerg travel- warping through the space-rift with help of Overmind (or Cerebrates after Overmind's destruction)

[DarkMirror]

No zerg needs to breathe. They all evolved vacume carapces. How do you think they survive on Space platforms? The terrans have enviromental suits, and the toss dont breathe at all, due to no mouthes.

So yes, we need mutas, and guadians, and devourers, and scourge.

[femoimal]

darkmirror, i would not like to dwell in biochemistry and thermodynamics (no, it is a blatant lie, i would love to!), but living creatures need to breathe. Its chemistry. They need some molecule that moves an electron down the oxydo-reduction chains that help decompose sugars into energy (i.e breathing). That molecule can be oxygen, methane, even cyanide or hydrogen etc... All living creatures on earth, however extreme may they be (archae-bacteria on the seabed or even IN the seabed) breathe.

'Kay, granted, everything is not bound to be like this. But if the zergs can absorb other living creatures that breathe, their biology must not differ too much. Protoss may not have a mouth but may breathe through skin (as some amphibians do) or through some special pores (as insects do). Anyone knows how protoss eat, by the way ? :P

... anyway, the point is that zergs might be interesting to play just because they breathe. They will be different. As extremely resistant they may be (lets admit they can survive vacuum for as long as they please), they are still bound to the laws of physics. And flapping your wings in vacuum, as mutas do, is just beautiful aesthetics (scourge on the other hand might move by ejecting gas, you never know). We shall keep all those units, and add more.

xarthatxio, can you be more precise ?
- How do they warp ? they need a warpgate, a templar ? a temple ? crystals ? or just engines ? what does a warpgate do ? Is travel instantaneous ? Do you have to tune the crystals ?
- Terrans have hyperspace ? jumpgates ? transdimentional devices ? Do hyperdrives need to compute the trajectory ? Do they fail ? How big does a ship need to be to carry such drives ?
-zergs : is there a limit to the rifts you can open at the same time ? How do you do it ? does it eat ressources ? is there a distance limit ? What's the speed ?

sgtHK: common, don't tease ;) Wouldn't you like to be able to infest Earth ? It would be so cool !

let's keep on brainstorming !

[XarthatXio]

- How do they warp ? they need a warpgate, a templar ? a temple ? crystals ? or just engines ? what does a warpgate do ? Is travel instantaneous ? Do you have to tune the crystals ?

That's too much technical details for me. But as far as we can see, it seems that few Warpgates may be found on planets and inside the Motherships

- Terrans have hyperspace ? jumpgates ? transdimentional devices ? Do hyperdrives need to compute the trajectory ? Do they fail ? How big does a ship need to be to carry such drives ?

This is probably the same as in another sci-fi.

-zergs : is there a limit to the rifts you can open at the same time ? How do you do it ? does it eat ressources ? is there a distance limit ? What's the speed ?

So far, we've only seen that Overmind used warp rift at least twice (once, when escaping from Tarsonis to Char, next time to attack Aiur). You want from us absolutely too much.

[femoimal]

xarthatXio, we just throw ideas in the air, relax. Some will be good, some will not, but all make us go forward !
You seem to know a lot about SC lore, combine that with imagination and the ideas flow !

[XarthatXio]

We shall only be careful about how far are we going with imagination, because some may tell us it's too far beyond the official SC canon.

[femoimal]

with the FTL idea, we are like archeologists : we try and piece together existing pieces of story, and scarce testimonies. We have seen the cinematics, read and played the scenarios. I'd just like to deduce the mechanics, in order to re-use them. We are not (so far) driving astray from the canon.

[SilverCrusader]

Nothing is too complex for C++!

[XarthatXio]

OK, guys, after few months I may take on the programming thing... I'm now learning on my studies ANSI C, so after the second semestre, I should be able to make something useful.

[DarkMirror]

I'm sorry, but Blizz said they can survive in vacuum. The absorbed a race of spacefaring mammoths, basically. Plus, its Psifi, and if you try to apply actual biology to it you will ruin the idea.

Now, in space, you could propel yourself by waving your arms. Mutas could do it with wings. Plus, the protoss do not need air. They get all the energy they need from cosmic radiation and, possibly, psi.

Lets just stick to SC, and not actual reality laws, kk?

[XarthatXio]

Lets just stick to SC, and not actual reality laws, kk?

That was a good idea.

[femoimal]

okay, guys i get your point. Let's do it the way its written.

From the point of gameplay though, i thought differentiation was interesting, and still do. We shall see how it works.

PS: just for the record, i'd like to state that waving your wings in space is like wearing a cape and jumping off the roof. It will get you nowhere :P

[DarkMirror]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If you applied thrust through wings in the right way, you could fly.

[Mr.Bad]

Only if you detached those wings and projected them at high speeds in the opposite direction. The equal and opposite action would be moving the wings forward again for another push. The only reason wings work is because of the change of surface area. Wings actually push the air backwards, then, as they move forward for preparation for another push, they angle, so as to push less air forward. Bottom line, wings don't work in space.

On another topic, while I am not certain whether or not zerg can actually survive in space on their own, I know that zerg space travel is facilitated through the use of creatures that are basically huge versions of the overlords. It says so in the books. Also, it is uncertain exactly how the zerg's FTL works, but I believe they refer to it as "darkspace", though my memory may be failing me. It seems most likely that it is some sort of gateways system, without requiring actual momentum on the part of the recipient, as is generally projected in Sci-fi. This is because the zerg can move buildings through their form of hyperspace.

[DarkMirror]

Ok, forget the wings. But they only need the big things so they can move the little guys, who arent meant for space travel.

They all have the evolutions from the space-beasts. Vacuum sealed, and probobly able to survive without oxygen for really long periods of time.

[SolidSamurai]

Terran:

As a terran player, you name your faction, choose your leader (name, gender, what you wish him/her to look like, personality), and pick other characteristics such as specializations of your space nation (such as leading corporations, government rule, etc.).

When you begin the game, you have only one planet, however you may colonize others. Planets may be inhabited to a certain degree depending on their conditions (like galactic civ with '10' being the rating for earth, and '4' being the rating for mars, ie.). Conditions may improve with terraforming, however it is an expensive and long process (technology can shorten time duration). Effectively, the terran as a race can operate in an enclosed 'space' more efficiently then any other race (whereas protoss really have to spread out, while zerg can be all over the place).

Terran inhabited planets must depend on buildings for production. Buildings take up land space, however many of the more specified buildings can airlift themselves to certain destinations (schedule airlift is an option that takes a few weeks; a turn lasts a month in gametime). Additionally, there is also taxes and approval rating (which is usually only effected by employee ratio, taxes and war, and in rare cases, inactivity to certain negatives).

Governments:

Autocracy: The simplest form of government. Your leader is the head and no one can really question him, though he does have a few advisors and agents, etc. The people rebel less and approval rating isn't as much of a concern except over taxes. Everything else is well rounded.

Democracy: You are a government made up of branches; the court, the commons, and the head. All decisions must be generally agreed upon by at least two parties out of three. You have to keep a balance, while at the same time satisfying approval ratings which lower or raise over everything previously mentioned. Because there's a lot of civil independance, production is higher and finding employees for your corporations is a less arduous process. The military is also capable of becoming quite advanced, however mobilising it is usually more difficult.

Megacorporate Lordship: The government is made up of a union of megacorporations: immense corporations with sovereignty. Your leader is merely the secretary, or middleman who helps hear the concerns of all involved. Approval ratings are of barely any concern whatsoever, except over taxes, and negative issues. You have many more sub-corporations over your lordship; additionally, your planet begins with a lot more structures and industrial capability. However, the military that belongs directly to you is puny (all combined militaries equals to something a little somewhat larger then what other governments begin with or have capacity to produce in the beginning) and your decisions must effectively always eventually lean towards industrial progress. There's no factional patriotism whatsoever in this government. Crime is also more rampant, leaving you with many more of what would be otherwise simple issues for you as a federal worldly government.

Feudal: Your government is united under a very general document or noble decree. You may be united under a strongly faith based religion, a cult calling, or whatever else. Generally, production is low, but military is recruitment is easier then in any other jurisdiction. Approval ratings are only ever affected by taxes and negative issues that require activism other then war. Crime and other simple issues are also even easier to deal with.

Terran Tech Trees:

- Engineering: Everything to do with design initiatives such as weaponry, biology, machinery, navigation, etc.

- Urbanization: Space, population, cultivation, environmental science, etc.

- Production: Correlates with engineering generally; extraction, manufacturing, construction, efficiency, etc.

There might be more, you see I actually thought fem meant '3 different trees for each race'. :P

Efficiency can be affected by many factors such as employee population, corporate grip, production tech, number of specific constructions on a certain planet, and/or engineering tech (machinery used). Other tech can also affect efficiency in different areas depending on whichever area.

Terran research is conducted with the aid of labs (orbital, ground based, or spaceship based), and upgrades available in the urban tree will increase efficiency. There will be minor labs (such as academies that also focus on specialized military training), general 'labs', as well as universities (that focus more on research than academies but also train employees for specialized higher level jobs).

In summary: Terran are unique because they are able to operate in more enclosed spaces than the other races.

Ground combat will take in several factors for Terran:

- Transportation
- The forces:
Infantry (usually foot soldiers, and light vehicles, but may also include
stealth agents and robotics)
Armor (tanks are entirely armor, while something like an armored 'walker'
would be a hybrid of a higher degree of infantry and armor)
Artillery (siege tanks are armor/artillery hybrids, while 'such and such a
name' might be artillery specific)
- Overall Mobility
- Supplies
- Air Support
- Communication
- Comfort

Each ground unit would have statistics such as mobility (speed at moving in and out of the each battle in the summary), firepower (damage to deal, ranged or melee... no idea if damage types should be included), resilience (ability to survive in an environment), armor (firepower subtraction/deduction from durability... no idea if armor types should be included), durability (health), and travel (the rate at which they slow every other unit down as they flit from battle to battle). Each stat matters. A unit with low fire power armor and durability, or travel, but very high mobility (such as the reaper), may happen to be involved in many more battles of hit and run with low losses then other units (as summarized in the war report upon the winning or losing of a planet), ie.

Supplies also have adverse affects on how your terran troops operate. They affect how your troops can last. Alot of supplies can help minimize the negative affects that your troops suffer in terrible climates, however too many supplies will leave your terrans too heavy handed being left to guard at all, effectively weighing them down in combat. The right amount of supplies can help allow you to optimize troop battle effectiveness.

Air support and communication: The right equipment means good communication, and enough aircraft can even optimize this and leave the terran ground forces in good contact at all times. Communication also helps keep your bases on the ground (factoring into the war report) netted safely, so that your troops will know when and when not to be on their guard. Good communication can go a long way, and if the enemy has a mindless mass of an army versus your short list of highly mobile, well supplied communicators, you could have a luscious win on your hands. Think of it as a group of professionally micro'd marines & medics versus clusters of zerglings, hydras, and annoying lurkers. Air Support also helps split up the enemy, their effectiveness being deducted by however much Air Support the enemy has (and the stats of your own Air Support in relation). High Air Support is a great way to combat the enemy's ghost defense tactics, though the enemy may seperate tactics between ground and air ('wall' for air, and 'ghost' for ground, ie.).

Comfort is generally the over all level of how well your troops feel. Comfort affects their morale, and depends mostly on environmental condition and supplies. Morale also considers a few other factors, such as the might of your own army (or how mighty your troops think you are) and/or the level of your communication.

Finally, there's tactical approach , which is usually only considering upon you launching an invasion on another guy's planet/station/territory in deep space. Though, if you know an enemy is going to invade one of your planets or stations/whichever, you may develop a few pre-defense initiatives of your own (which comes down to wall fortify, or ghost fortify).

Diversive: You divide your forces. This may work against an enemy who isn't entirely sure of your approach.

Column: One after the other. You weaken the enemy until he's feeble enough to coup. Good if you wish to keep costs low and losses lower when up against something you're not completely sure about.

Blob: Have at him! All your forces swarm the enemy's bases in an attempt to confuse, abuse, and defuse whatever balls he has for his location. This tactic can be dangerous despite the near maximum mobility that your armies might have, but really quick against someone who is weaker than your force. Ghost defense tactics are perhaps the only way to combat this move.

Push: Slow and steady. You pound the enemy with your clustered forces until his own forces crumble. This tactic mostly depends on what decisions the enemy makes.

Most invasive procedures depend on numbers of certain unit types. Ie., the 'push' maneuver usually requires a lot of artillery and defense structures, but less communication. Diversification usually works best with lots of mobile infantry and a bit of armor support, supplies and communication.

Defense maneuvers:

Wall: Your units 'pack in' around whatever valuable structures you have on your planet. All technology fits to their roles. The enemy is usually forced to make decisions. 'Push' maneuvers usually work quite well against these movements, while diversification often has a hard time. The less you have to guard in proportion to the size of your forces, however, the more effective a wall is. The only thing required is a decent force and lots of supplies.

Ghost: Your armies hide away in unique locations, slowly picking off the enemy and requiring on carelessness. They're native to your planet, and they know their environment. High levels of communication are usually required for this tactic. Mobility isn't necessary with your defensive leverage.

Burn the fields: You nuke your own resources and choke points, until the enemy chokes and dies. Both timing and fooling the enemy are important for this tactic to work most effectively. It's important to avoid losing too much of your army. Nothing is really required except the willingness to sacrifice resources and a lot of bombs or field salting equipment. A lot of communication and transport as well as high travel stats can help the enemy evacuate efficiently enough to avoid too many losses. Supplies usually don't matter considering incredible volumes of bombs usually contaminate them causing more distress among invading forces than ever.

Space based bombardment: If ever the enemy chooses to bombard any one of your planets from space, the only way to combat them is usually with your either your own navy, or the most expensive planetary defenses. Orbital stations can also be transformed into orbitting guns for the terran. Your ground forces can use shuttles/dropships to board enemy craft as well (not in deep space/away from your own planet).

When you win over a planet from a ground invasion, you'll be notified in the war report. Ground war's can last for months, upon which point you can provide reinforcements (only after multiple turns; upon which point the war, under 'number of wars currently active' states 'in progress').

[SilverCrusader]

As soon as I get this engine working I'll see what I can and can't do.

[SolidSamurai]

Wish I could learn a little more programmin' from this.

[SilverCrusader]

You should join in, I'm a complete noob.
Lookies what I found:
Click ME! (http://www.reactor3d.com/site/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/)

[Darkslayer633]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KDvI2UEvUo&feature=related

I do believe that this should prove the zerg space thing?

[SolidSamurai]

I won't be doing graphics, silvy. :P

Unless that thing takes in code somehow.

Anyone like my ideas, btw?

[SilverCrusader]

Ionno much about it, but I'll be watching it.

[Mr.Bad]

It occurs to me just how similar this game is turning out to another game called Reach For the Stars. It was actually quite fun.

Anyway, I'm liking your ideas, Samurai, but they almost seem too complex, if you know what I mean.

[SolidSamurai]

They won't be when you include everything. All chit chat wouldn't actually occur in real time.

It's just that the whole 'battle summary' for ground duels will take in a whole lot of factors for its calculations. Not like you can actually watch it all (though maybe you could show an animation of a bunch of really big bombs going off on the planet in question that can be seen from space.... who knows :P). The only thing you'd have control over post-setting-it-up would be to send in reinforcements after a turn and one or two other things.

[femoimal]

woah samurai, if that is not brainstorming i do not know what is ! Brillant !

The game you describe sort of exists. The genre exists, it is called 4X. Something like Exploration, Expansion,Exterminate, and Experience i think. Master of Orion III is a fine example of how nightmarish it may become. I think there is also Space Empires V. You are definitely getting the spirit...

... yet, you already bump into our main obstacle. Elegance. You'll tell me "By Tassadar, what does Elegance has to do with all this!". Well, you see, starcraft is a mainstream game. It is easy to digest, easy to play, straightforward. What you talk about we shall put in the game, and probably more. But most of it will be invisible to the user. Logistics, comfort, morale will be computed but not necessarily directly assessable by the player.

i'll take your ideas one by one, if you do not mind ? (i do not know how to quote):

1- at the beginning of the game, you choose your race and faction. right.
2- You are seeded somewhere in the galaxy. You actually should have one major colony, and perhaps some small ones (UED, Zerg, and 'light' protoss, the rest will have to do with one planet) [a list of playable factions anyone? the beginning of the game should be... now wait a minute, why not Choose the era ? Perhaps beginning of SC or end of broodwar ? It is nice to rewrite history in general!]
3- Planets all have fixed characteristics and relative ones. Resources are spread amongst them, and climatic/chemical classes might be shifted to align to your environment preferences (cool). Zergs have the tendency of destroying ecosystems anyway (look at the insectoid planet in startship troopers, everything is like Char). Protoss might help them bloom. Terraforming sure is nice ! (it maybe automatic)
4- airlifting buildings is a terrific idea and the sort of stuff that makes the gameplay become different and compelling. Terrans might indeed remotely sort of colonize other planets by transferring buildings there. Protoss will at least need some crystals or warpgates. Zergs will need a central building. Great !
5- Okay, now, i would not put taxes and the stuff in the game. It kills the spirit : you are here to fight and explore, not add up columns :P General morale of your troops might go up or down with defeats. For Human it will be their weakness. Protoss do not break that easily. Zergs may be immune to morale.
6- the government type should be included in your starting faction, and not change. Alright, there might be some secession, some of your planets rebelling on you. But again, lets keep things more streamlined. Diplomacy there will be, by the way. Your suggestions are a solid base with which to personalize terran factions.
7- tech tree. Hmmm interesting. I do not know much about that yet. Should be divide the categories, or just bunch all of them together ? Yeah i meant different tree for all races. Listen, you gave me an idea, not only the tree will be different, but its mechanism as well. Let's try the following:
- terran tree: in categories. Kind of compartmented, like our thoughts. Once you get along some trails, it is easy to miss something.
- protoss: more elegant, more convoluted but more connected too. Also, some discoveries will be linked to passed knowledge (why not include Xel'Naga), some triggers will make those techs available.
- Zerg: their tech-tree is a mess, and it is hard to direct it. It may even morph in time ! It needs new input in order to work, and new branches may sprout in it without warning, others wane. Like their mental state.
... what do you think ? Let's talk difference !
8- Research resource will be generated by buildings, units (cerebrates), or special objects (crystals and the like). right.
9- ground combat : nice approach, very much in line with what i had in mind. Again, we should give the player some different means with each race. Each one will have strenghts and weaknesses. Zergs for instance, will have numbers and terrain on their side. Terrans are more about schwerepunkt tactics (its what the germans called the point where they concentrated their attack in order to breach the defender's line), the protoss will be more psy/distance or sudden banzai assaults. Lots of work need to be done on ground combat, but you certainly strike the tone here.


great stuff samurai. Keep on rolling (and think of 3 philosophies) !!!!

[XarthatXio]

Now, it could be great if behaving like Europa Universalis in space. You know what I mean?

About the choosing era thing- my ideas as eras available:
-1: Just after Exiles' landing on Tarsonis (so means before the Kalathi Intercession)
-2: Just after forming the Confederacy
-3: Just before the original SC (beginning of Sons of Korhal attacks, somewhen in 2499)
-4: Just before the Overmind's attack to Aiur
-5: At the beginning of BroodWar
-6: Just after clearing Shakuras
-7: After Kerrigan's final victory
And probably:
-8: At the beginning of SC2
-9: Another eras of SC2, when it would be released.

[femoimal]

xathartXio, perhaps you are being too precise now :P
Letting the player start at an historical fulcrum is interesting, but now you are doing scenario building. Perhaps 2-3 starting points would be enough. But still, perhaps, will you be able to design some additional campaings ?

You see, it will be fun to direct the grand expansion of the races, first-hand. It will also be nice to re-write history doing so, but it will be a pity to acquire that freedom and then sacrifice it by sticking too much to the original SC story. Won't you agree ?

[SilverCrusader]

MMORTS ftw... Oh boy this'll be fun..

[XarthatXio]

No, no... MMO is not a good idea.

But have you ever played Europa Universalis? (Now, I'm thinking of the 2nd part) Each scenario was just a plain text file. To modify it to the standards of SC, we may have:

country = {
tag = TDO //Terran Dominion
race = terran
treasury = 456.23843
inflation = 0.075344
......
}
etc. etc. You got it? However, it would be good if you played EU.

[DarkMirror]

We are not making an MMO. This would be for single players, probobly. And maybe we should just make this the K-sector, and not the galaxy?

BTW, for stating times, I have an idea.
Start one(Pre SC): Protoss are the most common inhabitant. Terrans only have a few, same with zerg.
Start two(SC leading into UED BW): Terran are most comman, protoss and zerg only have a few.
Start three(After BW): Zerg are most common, terran and protoss only have a few.

[XarthatXio]

That was good, but we need also one "historical" start, probably somewhere about the founding of Confederacy and before the Kalathi Intercession.

[Mr.Bad]

No, we don't. Then there would be no interaction between the races, as they didn't even know of each other's existence.

[DarkMirror]

And we don't need the Kalathi! We are sticking to the three races, no more, no less.

[XarthatXio]

Femoimal should decide after all. As a big fan of alternate history, I strongly advise possibility to make Kalathi the major power.

[DarkMirror]

They had one planet. The protoss helped them, and ended up wiping them out. Not exactly candidates for a major power. I suppose you want planets of space faring dune runners, too? Just because a race is mentioned in SC lore, doesn't mean we actually need it.

[XarthatXio]

But in my opinion, they had a potential to become a power. However, let Femoimal decide, OK?

[DarkMirror]

I don't think they ever did. At least, not in the couple hundred years within them and SC. They have no reason to be inside the game.

[West]

ah, if someone could make a SC version of Galactic Civilizations 2 that would be heaven...

[SolidSamurai]

woah samurai, if that is not brainstorming i do not know what is ! Brillant !

The game you describe sort of exists. The genre exists, it is called 4X. Something like Exploration, Expansion,Exterminate, and Experience i think. Master of Orion III is a fine example of how nightmarish it may become. I think there is also Space Empires V. You are definitely getting the spirit...

... yet, you already bump into our main obstacle. Elegance. You'll tell me "By Tassadar, what does Elegance has to do with all this!". Well, you see, starcraft is a mainstream game. It is easy to digest, easy to play, straightforward. What you talk about we shall put in the game, and probably more. But most of it will be invisible to the user. Logistics, comfort, morale will be computed but not necessarily directly assessable by the player.

i'll take your ideas one by one, if you do not mind ? (i do not know how to quote):

1- at the beginning of the game, you choose your race and faction. right.
2- You are seeded somewhere in the galaxy. You actually should have one major colony, and perhaps some small ones (UED, Zerg, and 'light' protoss, the rest will have to do with one planet) [a list of playable factions anyone? the beginning of the game should be... now wait a minute, why not Choose the era ? Perhaps beginning of SC or end of broodwar ? It is nice to rewrite history in general!]
3- Planets all have fixed characteristics and relative ones. Resources are spread amongst them, and climatic/chemical classes might be shifted to align to your environment preferences (cool). Zergs have the tendency of destroying ecosystems anyway (look at the insectoid planet in startship troopers, everything is like Char). Protoss might help them bloom. Terraforming sure is nice ! (it maybe automatic)
4- airlifting buildings is a terrific idea and the sort of stuff that makes the gameplay become different and compelling. Terrans might indeed remotely sort of colonize other planets by transferring buildings there. Protoss will at least need some crystals or warpgates. Zergs will need a central building. Great !
5- Okay, now, i would not put taxes and the stuff in the game. It kills the spirit : you are here to fight and explore, not add up columns :P General morale of your troops might go up or down with defeats. For Human it will be their weakness. Protoss do not break that easily. Zergs may be immune to morale.
6- the government type should be included in your starting faction, and not change. Alright, there might be some secession, some of your planets rebelling on you. But again, lets keep things more streamlined. Diplomacy there will be, by the way. Your suggestions are a solid base with which to personalize terran factions.
7- tech tree. Hmmm interesting. I do not know much about that yet. Should be divide the categories, or just bunch all of them together ? Yeah i meant different tree for all races. Listen, you gave me an idea, not only the tree will be different, but its mechanism as well. Let's try the following:
- terran tree: in categories. Kind of compartmented, like our thoughts. Once you get along some trails, it is easy to miss something.
- protoss: more elegant, more convoluted but more connected too. Also, some discoveries will be linked to passed knowledge (why not include Xel'Naga), some triggers will make those techs available.
- Zerg: their tech-tree is a mess, and it is hard to direct it. It may even morph in time ! It needs new input in order to work, and new branches may sprout in it without warning, others wane. Like their mental state.
... what do you think ? Let's talk difference !
8- Research resource will be generated by buildings, units (cerebrates), or special objects (crystals and the like). right.
9- ground combat : nice approach, very much in line with what i had in mind. Again, we should give the player some different means with each race. Each one will have strenghts and weaknesses. Zergs for instance, will have numbers and terrain on their side. Terrans are more about schwerepunkt tactics (its what the germans called the point where they concentrated their attack in order to breach the defender's line), the protoss will be more psy/distance or sudden banzai assaults. Lots of work need to be done on ground combat, but you certainly strike the tone here.


great stuff samurai. Keep on rolling (and think of 3 philosophies) !!!!

The idea I had for rebelling was a way to also prevent rebelling; otherwise it'd be incredibly annoying for the player to occur at random or to occur inevitably. Generally, the idea is that people get concerned over 3 things that might require either annoyance, noticeable anger, or civil war (the levels of terran public outcry, really). Generally, they're just taxes, too much war (usually only if you're losing, but depends on the government... of course people can be convinced that war is necessary for a large part of the time, like say 'the strange protoss will extinguish us all, if we don't take action' or whatever), and negative issues (some colonies are hit by nasty disease, possibly zerg or natural in origin, and little action has been taken to prevent spreading). As for the beginning, you start with only one planet, but colonization will occur very quickly, so that you can get right into the game. Really the game wouldn't amount to much, if you can produce a fleet within the first month (considering you own all colonies within that time). With one planet it might take 3 or 4 months, during which time you can engage in various other activities such as production, technology, resource gathering (usually running 'extraction operations').

The idea for governments was generally taken from what already exists lore-wise in the game:

Dominion: Autocracy
Confederacy: Democracy (planets were democratic at least, but the feds were rather uptight with the old families and such; somewhat unique with a bit of a feudal crossing)
Kel Moria: Megacorporate
Baron Lexis and society offshoot from SoW: Feudal

I'll give you 3 racial philosophies (just an attempt right now):

Terran Advantages:
- Fast colonization
- Mobile production
- Financial advantages
- Operate better than others in close corners
- Fleet versatility

Disadvantages:
- Public appeasal
- Maintainability
- Regulation
- The necessity of rapid teching

Protoss Advantages:
- Offensive mobility
- Political integrity
- Communication
- Maintainability
- Regulation
- Fleet mobility

Disadvantages:
- Production expense
- The necessity to be spread out
- Slow colonization

Zerg Advantages:
- Efficient colonization
- Fast production
- Covert
- No public appeasel
- Efficient communication

Disadvantages:
- The necessity of rapid colonization
- Defense
- The necessity of high offense
- Terrible in close corners
- Soft fleet in comparision (until very high tech)

DELETE THIS POST AND NOT THE OTHER ONE

[SolidSamurai]

woah samurai, if that is not brainstorming i do not know what is ! Brillant !

The game you describe sort of exists. The genre exists, it is called 4X. Something like Exploration, Expansion,Exterminate, and Experience i think. Master of Orion III is a fine example of how nightmarish it may become. I think there is also Space Empires V. You are definitely getting the spirit...

... yet, you already bump into our main obstacle. Elegance. You'll tell me "By Tassadar, what does Elegance has to do with all this!". Well, you see, starcraft is a mainstream game. It is easy to digest, easy to play, straightforward. What you talk about we shall put in the game, and probably more. But most of it will be invisible to the user. Logistics, comfort, morale will be computed but not necessarily directly assessable by the player.

i'll take your ideas one by one, if you do not mind ? (i do not know how to quote):

1- at the beginning of the game, you choose your race and faction. right.
2- You are seeded somewhere in the galaxy. You actually should have one major colony, and perhaps some small ones (UED, Zerg, and 'light' protoss, the rest will have to do with one planet) [a list of playable factions anyone? the beginning of the game should be... now wait a minute, why not Choose the era ? Perhaps beginning of SC or end of broodwar ? It is nice to rewrite history in general!]
3- Planets all have fixed characteristics and relative ones. Resources are spread amongst them, and climatic/chemical classes might be shifted to align to your environment preferences (cool). Zergs have the tendency of destroying ecosystems anyway (look at the insectoid planet in startship troopers, everything is like Char). Protoss might help them bloom. Terraforming sure is nice ! (it maybe automatic)
4- airlifting buildings is a terrific idea and the sort of stuff that makes the gameplay become different and compelling. Terrans might indeed remotely sort of colonize other planets by transferring buildings there. Protoss will at least need some crystals or warpgates. Zergs will need a central building. Great !
5- Okay, now, i would not put taxes and the stuff in the game. It kills the spirit : you are here to fight and explore, not add up columns :P General morale of your troops might go up or down with defeats. For Human it will be their weakness. Protoss do not break that easily. Zergs may be immune to morale.
6- the government type should be included in your starting faction, and not change. Alright, there might be some secession, some of your planets rebelling on you. But again, lets keep things more streamlined. Diplomacy there will be, by the way. Your suggestions are a solid base with which to personalize terran factions.
7- tech tree. Hmmm interesting. I do not know much about that yet. Should be divide the categories, or just bunch all of them together ? Yeah i meant different tree for all races. Listen, you gave me an idea, not only the tree will be different, but its mechanism as well. Let's try the following:
- terran tree: in categories. Kind of compartmented, like our thoughts. Once you get along some trails, it is easy to miss something.
- protoss: more elegant, more convoluted but more connected too. Also, some discoveries will be linked to passed knowledge (why not include Xel'Naga), some triggers will make those techs available.
- Zerg: their tech-tree is a mess, and it is hard to direct it. It may even morph in time ! It needs new input in order to work, and new branches may sprout in it without warning, others wane. Like their mental state.
... what do you think ? Let's talk difference !
8- Research resource will be generated by buildings, units (cerebrates), or special objects (crystals and the like). right.
9- ground combat : nice approach, very much in line with what i had in mind. Again, we should give the player some different means with each race. Each one will have strenghts and weaknesses. Zergs for instance, will have numbers and terrain on their side. Terrans are more about schwerepunkt tactics (its what the germans called the point where they concentrated their attack in order to breach the defender's line), the protoss will be more psy/distance or sudden banzai assaults. Lots of work need to be done on ground combat, but you certainly strike the tone here.


great stuff samurai. Keep on rolling (and think of 3 philosophies) !!!!

The idea I had for rebelling was a way to also prevent rebelling; otherwise it'd be incredibly annoying for the player to occur at random or to occur inevitably. Generally, the idea is that people get concerned over 3 things that might require either annoyance, noticeable anger, or civil war (the levels of terran public outcry, really). Generally, they're just taxes, too much war (usually only if you're losing, but depends on the government... of course people can be convinced that war is necessary for a large part of the time, like say 'the strange protoss will extinguish us all, if we don't take action' or whatever), and negative issues (some colonies are hit by nasty disease, possibly zerg or natural in origin, and little action has been taken to prevent spreading). As for the beginning, you start with only one planet, but colonization will occur very quickly, so that you can get right into the game. Really the game wouldn't amount to much, if you can produce a fleet within the first month (considering you own a dozen colonies within that time). With one planet it might take 3 or 4 months, during which time you can engage in various other activities such as production, technology, resource gathering (usually running 'extraction operations'). Perhaps the player could select the option of 'far post', 'post', or 'pre'. Post would start you off with a few colonies, while pre would give you only one planet (your capital planet of course). 'Far post' would kick you off with several planets to produce a fair fleet right in the first month or two.

The idea for governments was generally taken from what already exists lore-wise in the game:

Dominion: Autocracy
Confederacy: Democracy (planets were democratic at least, but the feds were rather uptight with the old families and such; somewhat unique with a bit of a feudal crossing)
Kel Moria: Megacorporate
Baron Lexis and society offshoot from SoW: Feudal

I'll give you 3 racial philosophies (just an attempt right now):

Terran Advantages:
- Fast colonization
- Mobile production
- Financial advantages (finance can rise quicker then other races, and there's more ways to make money)
- Operate better than others in close corners
- Fleet versatility

Disadvantages:
- Public appeasal
- Maintainability
- Regulation

Protoss Advantages:
- Offensive mobility
- Political integrity
- Communication
- Maintainability
- Regulation
- Fleet mobility

Disadvantages:
- Production expense
- The necessity to be spread out
- Slow colonization

Zerg Advantages:
- Efficient colonization
- Fast production
- Covert
- No public appeasel
- Hyper communication
- Climatic adaptibility
- Cheap production

Disadvantages:
- The necessity of rapid colonization
- Defense
- The necessity of high offense
- Terrible in close corners
- Soft fleet in comparision (until very high tech)

We are not making an MMO. This would be for single players, probobly. And maybe we should just make this the K-sector, and not the galaxy?


The K-Sector could probably have around like 150-200 stars at the most, which is nowhere near what makes up a galaxy. That could be pretty realistic, not to mention a virtual interactive map can only be so big.

The player could also have the option of stating map size, which takes things up to maybe 1200-1700 stars at the largest (the K-sector and the vast outside rims and nebula). That of course, would be massive.



EDIT: Please delete the post above this one.

[Mr.Bad]

Not only massive, but more work. I think K-sector is fine.

[femoimal]

samurai, you don't stop till you drop, eh ? :P

very good stuff. Mind if i copy it in my notebook ? I'll add some ideas tomorrow, i got to fix dinner in a mo (filthy woman's exploitation, i'll plague her alright).

- the start size of each faction will be dependent of the era. Further tuning is not necessary i think, although racial differences will exist.

- i don't know about the money thing. Since its a total war and SC itself has no such thing as money, i propose we stick to 2 (maybe 3?) resources (the third might i don't know, psy points? just an idea).

- tremendous work on differentiation of the races. About the zergs: adding up to what you say, we got to make clear the fact that the zerg legions are a pain to control. Even if the overmind has a telepathic bond with its cerebrates and overlords, the thing can easily go haywire. Broods go bersek all the time in SC. So we have got to clear out the "chain of command" for the zergs. How they work, how orders are emitted, transmitted, by who and where the thing is vulnerable. Overmind-->cerebrates--->overlords ? or else ? Zergs are beasts, and may be hard to rein in.

- protoss have had a lot of internal divisions in the past. Diplomacy would be hard with them (contrary to the terrans, while the zerg diplomacy must be something quite frightening).

I cannot find any thing i disagree with your proposals, let's lock those in. Let's detail the chain of decisions and command, now ?

[SolidSamurai]

According to SC2, money does exist. Wouldn't make sense otherwise.

[femoimal]

samurai, money exists because you play Raynor in a battlecruiser, and you need the money as a means to unlock technology and trade with the rest of human factions.

You see, i do not hink it is the lack of liquidity or foreign currency that causes victory or defeat in total war. Germany had this problem for getting petrol before the war. Once it began, they just grabbed it. Then, they ration, expropriate, etc..

well no you are right, let's include money... The zergs have bank accounts in switzerland ? :P They'd rather trade with human skulls.

dunno, what you say makes sense and would be practical, except that i find it rather odd (very odd). There are no taxes either in zerg kingdom. And we should definitely keep the same ressources for the 3 races !


as for the scale, it would be nice to set it a the beginning of the game. I reckon about 8 clusters of 6 stars/planets would do the trick, for the largest games. Average games would involve something 30 or so planets. What do you guys think ?

[SolidSamurai]

I haven't detailed everything dude. Who said the zerg would get taxes? Not me. That only applies to terran. You gotta gimme time here dude. Hell, money might even only apply to terran.

Nevertheless...

According to SC2, money does exist. Raynor uses it and it's needed to progress through campaign, but then again blue crystals and green gas are needed to progress through an ordinary match.

The third resource could be food or energy. Supplies would also factor in. It's quite simple, considering resources have to be watched once every turn (it's not a click fest). Seeing as their might be as much as seven resources (minerals, gas, food, energy, supplies, artifacts, and rare minerals), there could be a resource chart in the menu. New players will be advised to check their 'commodities'.
BTW, when I mention politics and communication, I mean internal. Everything is internal. Diplomacy is pretty much up to the player (if you wanna allow npc interaction). Zerg might be a little different, though. You could exclude diplomacy entirely for them which might put them at another disadvantage.
Resources:
Minerals: The base metals found throughout asteroids, moons, and the many planets of the vacuum. 'Blue crystals' are the generic symbol representing all minerals made useful for processing.
Vespene: The fossil fuel of space. Vespene breathes life into machines and craft alike. Of course, this resource can be extracted nearly anywhere.
Food: One of the simplest, and most necessary supplies. Without food, your colonial population cannot expand.
Energy: Required to keep an infrastructure active. Energy is aquired from reactors of varying quality and expense. Some spaceships and stations can also be made into reactors.
Supplies: Troops who're away from any instant friendly hub of civilization need supplies to stay alive, and keep fighting.
Artifacts: Salvaging and exploration missions can yield precious artifacts, some powerful enough to benefit entire civilizations and even change the course of a major conflict.
Rare minerals: Extensive extraction operations in exotic locations of far off space may yield yellow crystals (generic symbol for special expensive minerals). Not only are they costly, but they can be used in the production of powerful or unique components for vessels and distinctive fleets. Rare minerals also often produce good flagship components.

Ah FFS, someone delete this post. Not the one below it.

[SolidSamurai]

I haven't detailed everything dude. Who said the zerg would get taxes? Not me. That only applies to terran. You gotta gimme time here dude. Hell, money might even only apply to terran. Zerg surely wouldn't deal in money. Resources would be the same for all 3 races.

BTW, the zerg aren't a 'kingdom' either, they're referred to as 'the swarm'. :D

Nevertheless...

According to SC2, money does exist. Raynor uses it and it's needed to progress through campaign, but then again blue crystals and green gas are needed to progress through an ordinary match. It's a universal rule. There's no depth whatsoever to a universe that simply deals in magical blue crystals.
It simply follows with the rule that blue crystals (generic symbol for minerals) are harvested directly, refined and converted into materials for construction with no trade involved whatsoever. As for terran hiring troops, you can assume they distributed the minerals to the agency who gives you the fresh meat. The government agency then sells the minerals on open market for actual cash. It makes perfect sense, and I find it hard to believe no one came up with that idea.

As for paying units for every bit of work they do for you in a starcraft match, you can assume that that's what the terran government in the background deals with. You are the commander, so it isn't your job to account taxes and bankroll people. You don't handle the cash, your just the commander, so it's your job to run the battlefield.

The third resource could be food or energy. Supplies would also factor in. It's quite simple, considering resources have to be watched once every turn (it's not a click fest). Seeing as their might be as much as seven resources (minerals, gas, food, energy, supplies, artifacts, and rare minerals), there could be a resource chart in the menu. New players will be advised to check their 'commodities'.
BTW, when I mention politics and communication, I mean internal. Everything is internal. Diplomacy is pretty much up to the player (if you wanna allow npc interaction). Zerg might be a little different, though. You could exclude diplomacy entirely for them which might put them at another disadvantage.

Resources:

Minerals: The base metals found throughout asteroids, moons, and the many planets of the vacuum. 'Blue crystals' are the generic symbol representing all minerals made useful for processing.

Vespene: The fossil fuel of space. Vespene breathes life into machines and craft alike. Of course, this resource can be extracted nearly anywhere.

Food: One of the simplest, and most necessary supplies. Without food, your colonial population cannot expand.

Energy: Required to keep an infrastructure active. Energy is aquired from reactors of varying quality and expense. Some spaceships and stations can also be made into reactors.

Supplies: Troops who're away from any instant friendly hub of civilization need supplies to stay alive, and keep fighting.

Artifacts: Salvaging and exploration missions can yield precious artifacts, some powerful enough to benefit entire civilizations and even change the course of a major conflict.

Rare minerals: Extensive extraction operations in exotic locations of far off space may yield yellow crystals (generic symbol for special expensive minerals). Not only are they costly, but they can be used in the production of powerful or unique components for vessels and distinctive fleets. Rare minerals also often produce good flagship components.

Effectively as a terran, instead of simply being the commander, you are the government CEO, the high chief, and top bureacrat. That's where things differ from RTS to hard strategy.

This looks pretty complex, but it's gotta be if your making a turn by turn stategy game that's progressive. Resources aren't something you have to watch at every beat. I even said it myself that ground combat wouldn't require regulation; you simply took the words from my mouth. Jeeze, dude.


30 planets would construde the game. If you want the game to be decent, you might have to make it more like 400-500 planets, dude. Unless your planning on making a small game liable to last a few minutes. Not every planet needs to be inhabited to win anyway, and that's the point (though it can be done). It's like civilization, in that the environment is the interface and you make of it what you can. And because it's turn by turn rather then RTS, 30 planets would make it a watch fest. Not every planet needs to be capable of colonizing either.

But whatever, I'll concede, it's your game. Your original idea.

I don't see the purpose of eras personally. Really, if you want, we can just place this in the universe of starcraft. But whatever, your game.

Command:

Terran Command:
Terrans communicate mostly via radio, email, phone, and cyberspace matrice (futuristic evolution of the internet). FTL communication is available as a major tech, and one that is necessary to keep in contact with your colonies. Most of it's already been figured. You issue orders to officers and commanders and they relay and obey. You may also assign missions to covert, extraction operations, manufacturing operations, tech research, and tasks.

Protoss Command:
Depending on government (I'll work this out in a bit for protoss), protoss use mostly psi-channels to communicate far off. Electronic media exists in some dulled form, however it's mostly there so that robotic populations can keep in contact. Psionic interfacing is also a readily available form of communication between the protoss, their machines, and other protoss in between (or inside or even of) machines. You issue orders to praetors and executors and they relay, organise, and obey.
Other orders are similar to terran ones, such as extraction, research, manufacturing and production. Tasks and missions may also be assigned, although the protoss aren't ones for precise covert so much as the terran might be (spy on resources, certain type of activity, etc.). General covert exists in many forms however (spy on fleet, planet activity, etc.).

[femoimal]

it is not my game. Its our construct. I tried to get it on its way alone, and could not.
Waoh it il take a long time to answer that. A quickie though:

- the "eras" are a quick way to set the number of players, and the complexity of the game. Even the starting planets etc... It might also influence the initial tech advance, as you proposed.

- sorry you took the piss, i certainly did not intend to downgrade either your proposals or the sheer work you put in here (i'm such an ass sometimes). Your resource inventory is for instance most inclusive.

- for the ground combat i thought i stated it in the initial post. Whatever, the important thing is we converge on the simple-combat idea.

- a last one before i stop for the night: about the size of the universe. I really do not know about this. I played almost every space conquest game that's been out since 1995-96, and often find that 50 (useable) worlds are in the average about right for:
..leaving you some elbow room so you do not encounte immediately your opponents (except if you want to)
...not having you wander in space and be like in simcity, and forgetting about the conflict.
the ideal thing would be to be able to keep contact with the others (squirmishes, raids, intelligence missions) while you build-up.
Anyway, all of this has been done before. The important thing here is alchemy, of gameplay and universe.

did i say it was turn based ? ah no, i proposed a "slow-paced real time", like in star-wars rebellion. Did anybody here play it, or one of its clones? or Empire at war ?

what do you guys think, should we, as a player, also command the economy or focus on the military/diplomacy ? (economy <> resource gathering and production, its about taxrate and so)

[DarkMirror]

I say turn based would be SOOOOO much easier. Also, a couple hundred planets would be perfect.

[SolidSamurai]

Yah, basically what DM said. That way, you wouldn't need nearly as much AI.

Tax rate would only really apply to a turn based game. Whereas an actual fluctuating economy could be included in your engine.

Maybe if you wanna, you can include the slow RTS as a seperate thread? But it's up to you.

[femoimal]

i agree that the turn based game is more easy for programing. The bad thing is that is puts you in a niche. Most people will turn away from Turn-Based games just a the sight of it. While RT technique is more popular. I suppose you can embed niches of AI thinking every once in a while and allow it decent time for its decision-making code-tree.

As i said before, its not about making click-fest, by sort of keeping the game alive (like in star-wars rebellion, again). Like, it would take minutes to travel to one planet to another thats not close. Its hardly a panic isn't it ?

about the planet number: let the player decide. We give him a choice at the start and he plays the game he wants.

the AI will be a severe pain in the bum. Ideally, there should be a multi-player capability for the game... but i do not think we can find a programmer who can handle that... (sigh)

[SilverCrusader]

i agree that the turn based game is more easy for programing. The bad thing is that is puts you in a niche. Most people will turn away from Turn-Based games just a the sight of it. While RT technique is more popular. I suppose you can embed niches of AI thinking every once in a while and allow it decent time for its decision-making code-tree.

Yeah w00t, lets kill the server every time a turn ends.

[SolidSamurai]

The game'd be free, what're you looking for, sales? You can only have so many people active on a server at one time anyway.

Who's willing to host a server, btw? And don't physical servers cost like 3 grand average?

Sorry, I'm just trying to cut into things a little.

If you're thinking of multi-player via LAN, that could work, but eitherway.

It's not my concern whether or not a 'moo' style of RTS would be too slow, btw.

Wait nvm, I've got nothing else to belittle, really. :P

New Suggestions:

Have a large variety of planets and planet sizes too. You could have nebula for harvesting large sources of gas too.

So you could have 'planet encumberance' (planet size and moons), 'interstellar climate' (the amount of nebula and asteroid belts in relation to everything else, etc.), and planet/star amount (generally varying from micro, very small, small, mild medium, medium.... lots of variations up to really really large maximum; the smallest size, 'infinitesimal' could be like 4 or 5 planets :P; second in line would be 'nano micro').

In a turn based game though, you could have alot more stars. I'm just saying. Additionally, the only animation you'd need (for fun) might be UI (glowy buttons), fleet battles (lightning, lasers, and missiles all over the place; little dots for fighter drones like interceptors, too), explosions for every spaceship that dies, fleet bombardment (mostly fireballs representing yamato guns and big 'toss beams and bulgey missiles for nukes, prolly) signficant explosions for every flagship, and maybe repetitive explosion patterns on a planet that's in the process of ground combat. You could also have lots and lots of pictures, and simply go crazy with the unoffical SC-related artwork, so that the player isn't so bored by lack of colourful animations.

I'll offer some terran artwork ideas later on if you want me to. The interface colours and artwork (like say, upon initiating ground combat, you see a picture of your races troops ready for ground combat) look different for each race too.

For leaders, you could simply have the player choose from a list of pictures that relates to race(completely made up characters; player would make up a name; for zerg it'd be infested people (man or woman; but not kerrigan!), cerebrates, or an overmind or too). It'd be cool if the enemy npcs were characters from the game that already exist, too.

We could even reward the player for winning certain difficulties of offline matches with the ability to play as existing characters from the game (their pictures), and change their names around (ala link from zelda). Some of the hardest avatars to unlock would be those of Kerrigan, Zeratul, or Tassadar perhaps (there'd also be every other significant character, including Zazsk, Mengsk, Raynor and them). The hardest avatar of all to unlock (win a match on highest difficulty, third or fourth largest setting because largest setting is ridiculous), would be that of Samir Duran (viable leader for all races). Or whoever you guys think it should be.

[SilverCrusader]

Welcome to the age of Next-Gen. No one wants a TBS game anymore. They all want RTS. And I already have a server :P.

Regardless I want a fricken engine >.<

[SolidSamurai]

Aww man!

But really, whatever. You can make this an RTS if you want. Just include all those other nifty features I already mentioned. The ability to customize your own government as a terran would be nice too (4 options). And remember that you're the bureacrat, not the commander, so you could have civilians whining to you to solve things too.

AI difficulties might be a little difficult, however.

[SilverCrusader]

What AI?
The last thing I'm worrying about is what we can add to the game rather than building the foundation.

[femoimal]

crusader, how's the crusade for the engine going ?

visited the last site you posted about a 3d engine on this thread. Couldn't even get a screenshot. The engines you seek are freeware ? Got anymore leads ? Did you try ti have a look at macromedia director and its shockwave 3d engine ?

... i know its old, and only directX7 generation, but we do not want to blow electronic arts away with SFX. Born of blood, galactic civ and even SC do not have fantastic graphics, they just do their part.

As far i am concerned, as soon as the engine can render some basic but nifty galactic map and some decent space battles, the rest is just database management (lots of delightful databases, dont you love them) and interface design.

want me to fix you a (very fast) prototype in director to show you what can be done ? i'd take me the rest of the week, and you could toy with it, even look at the code (lingo) to see if you like it. (i did not complete my BsC in computer science because i got stuck in abstract data types, but i can still get some things going).

and you can manage multiplayer in lingo too !

PS: of course the game would be free. Although i do not think that legally it would make a difference.
PS2: will not be server based for the reasons just cited above. Simple tcp-ip game hosting would be soooo sweet. (still let's focus on single player first, we will ahve to deal with AI routines anyway)

i will shortly give my starting and sketchy impressions of battles. Feel free to do the same. After all, its all about fighting !

[SolidSamurai]

We could use some WB artists too. Some nice artwork to go with clicking through the game's menus and interface would be nice.

And considering this is probably (going to be) about as huge as SoW, it makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Eventually, I might do something like link the game's development in my sig. :P

[SilverCrusader]

This is bigger than SoW, and I'm involved in that as well >.>

(If you notice my sig has the old version of the tomahawk in it.)

And yes, I'm searching for freeware. I really really want to stay away from flash or java. That stuff is just too limiting.

[SolidSamurai]

You mean JavaSCRIPT is too limiting, right?

[SilverCrusader]

Yes, I meant JavaScript. Any of that sort is out of the picture.. Now Java... I'd have to learn a new syntax. Not fun. C++ is what I want.

[SolidSamurai]

Sweet. Going for complexity is always nice. It even makes me wonder if this game'll be harder to design than SC vanilla. Or at least warcraft 2 (that's an easier line, right?).

[West]

that would be awsome, like a sc version of galactic civilizations II.
To bad it's not possible someone sends the idea to blizzard, though they won't
waist their time on it.

[SolidSamurai]

Companies like blizzard would rather dirive their ideas from behind closed doors.

This is OUR project. Thank you.

When we reach a certain stage, we can harvest attention from the org network. :)

[West]

well, good luck.

[SolidSamurai]

Cool man, thanks.

[SolidSamurai]

Erm, bump.

[DarkMirror]

Thee shall not bumpeth thee threads!

[SolidSamurai]

Well, nubby, you just did. :P

And uh.... it'd make more sense to begin with 'thou' and 'shalt' then 'thee'... or maybe 'ye' also works. >_>

[SilverCrusader]

It was grammatically incorrect anyway, should of read:
Thou shalt not bump the thread.

Anyway, no progress on the engine :/

[SolidSamurai]

So you still looking for one or are you making one?

[femoimal]

hey lads. Been rather busy with graphics and social events during those festivities, as soon as everything goes back to normal, i can work a little rough prototype of the interface, and post you guys a link here.

[SolidSamurai]

Quick question: If we were to make munny offa this project, how much would I make for my individual contribution? :D

And how much of said estimated portion would be distributed to the others?

Just a uh... loose thought there. You can answer it if you like. lol

EDIT: Of course, we might have to do a few modifications to the whole written scene, or get approval from blizz if that were to actually occur.

[femoimal]

no money, sorry.

because if you make money, it will all go and feed your lawyer hahahaha. And that, sir, you do not want to. Believe me, become familiar with your state's legal system is the last thing you want to do early !

its for the experience, the fun, the drugs and rock'n'roll (or wagnerian music) ! Samurai, you have a lot of imagination, what are you studying ? Want to go in the gaming industry later ?

[SolidSamurai]

Studying nothing, rofl.

And yah lol, into the gaming industry later. :P

Or write sci-fi novels. >_>

EDIT: The impression you prolly get from this thread feels like we're all over the place with this project right now. o.0

[SolidSamurai]

Anything new?

[tzzA]

Hmm. I just read/skimmed everything before this and it looks really interesting. I've played C&C Generals, SupCom and a LOT of EaW/Foc, so I have an idea of how the genre works ;)
Thoughts:

Yes, RTS.

Don't have more than 2 types of money/resources. SupCom has 2(mass/energy), which is basically all that can be easily balanced. More, and you would probably have to decrease production of one or both to get the third. Also, make sure that you have 'unlimited' income, not fixed max $$ like Generals. ;)

If you find a game engine in a game that you like, you could make a mod instead of starting from scratch. If, say, you made a FoC mod, you could rename/reskin units+make new ones, keep most of the space maps and some of the land maps, make some new ones, and then create 3 or 4 GCs. I don't know how that would work legally though....

So, if you have an independent game, or one that is based on the EaW/FoC engine, I can test it if you need help, and can discuss concept/content/etc(non-coding stuff). However, 'now' things unfortunately don't work out due to me being in school, so if a tight schedule is important, I wouldn't be much of a help, in which case it's fine to say no.

Note: I haven't actually ever played SC :rolleyes:, so if something I say seems odd/crazy/wtf-ish/etc. etc. that may be the reason.

[SilverCrusader]

Making an engine lawl. I don't have the experience for such a task nor the time.

[tzzA]

not make engine, silly. Mod =/= using someone else's engine to create game.

[SilverCrusader]

not make engine, silly. Mod =/= using someone else's engine to create game.
I'm using someone else's engine.

[tzzA]

*shrug*

[femoimal]

you do not have to make an engine, there are several on the market just for making interactive stuff and/or 3d games. I do not know how convenient their meta-language is for data and interface management though. And if there is support and the company does not die in a year.:concern:

[SilverCrusader]

http://www.dxstudio.com/default.aspx
Rejoice! I has found an engine. Currently learning how to use it.

[femoimal]

hey crusader, i have been looking at the page of the 3d engine you posted. You want some objects/interface elements, anything to help you see what its capable of ? pm me if so !

[SilverCrusader]

I'll need them, but I'm still doing tutorials right now, and all of the stuff I need to do those is already provided.

[SolidSamurai]

Yay, we're not dead yet!

[SilverCrusader]

I think you guys better start making models, planning out the interface and how the game is going to look. - I'll tell you if we can't do that with the engine.

[femoimal]

tell me more about the sources you need, especially 3d-wise. I want to see what this engine can do. You need models? tell me in what format, is there an export plug-in , or give me a page with the specs. What kind of skinning is supported, if we want to use some ? Can we play online ? could we deal with multi-player games -with what protocols? What is the language like ?

For the interface, except if we want to do some very fancy stuff, its button-country and should not cause problems. What about data-base management ?

[tzzA]

I can start work on designing something for an interface appearance if you want(colors/shapes, where certain buttons go, what does what, etc).

[femoimal]

great, tzza. Thing is, beyond prototyping and testing, we still have to rig the nature of the game, how its organized and how it works. For instance, turn-based or real time (slow or fast-paced) interfaces differ a lot.

Still, the idea of the game can shape itself with exploring that way. Mind sharing with us how you see the game, in words before going into image-making ?

[SilverCrusader]

The engine are rather good specifications, definitely enough for a RTS.
Fast DirectX9.0c real-time 2D/3D engine.
Pixel/Vertex shader shadows/bump/specular/opacity maps for PS/VS 2.0+ cards. Graceful degradation to fixed function pipeline for older cards.
Complete integrated physics engine (Bullet) and collision detection system.
Post production effects (including bloom, fuzzy tv, camera shake, sepia).
Fully scriptable (JavaScript) for all events and actions.
Complete runtime control of effects, meshes, materials, backgrounds, etc possible via script.
Cube-mapped environments supported for display and reflections.
Full integrated 2D and 3D scene editors, and drill-down into 3D model, material, bitmap and sound editors.
Open .dx* file formats, utilising XML and ZIP compression.
DX Studio imports the following 3D formats directly:- COLLADA (DAE), X, 3DS, ASC, PRJ, DXF, IOB, TS, LWO, LP, RTG, RBS, RWX, SCENE, STL, COA, COB, GEO, WRL, OBJ, XGL, ZGL, XYZ.
Compatible media file formats include WAV, BMP, PNG, JPEG, GIF, TGA, TIFF, DDS, MPEG, AVI, MP3, OGG, FLV.
Supports multiple scenes/layers/cameras in a single player.
DirectShow Video Mixer support (streams audio and video into 3D scenes).
Includes both standalone (desktop) and embedded ActiveX players (for use in web browsers, VC++, C# or VB.Net). All players can be distributed without any license fees.
Send and receive script commands between a player and its container application.
Client/Server networking via sockets, with automatic discovery and GUID protection.
Extensible plug-in based architecture - the SDK is available from the download section.

[femoimal]

how do we get hold of it ?

[SilverCrusader]

The engine? You download it from their site (dxstudio.com)

[SolidSamurai]

3d blender's frikkin confusing, so I'll have to work out the time to take a tutorial on it.

And someone had a server I remember, so it'd be nice if we could make this online. As for money, we could get it from donations and ads, and that'd be the domain itself rather then the product. :P

Now I'm being hopeful. >_>

Anyway... we've got most of our ideas down don't we, so now we just have to make things real. Do a few sketches, create some models, and those can be the basis for everything else.

And isn't it asp that allows you to script databases? I could be wrong.

[SilverCrusader]

I'm not sure, I haven't gotten to the coding part of the tutorials yet.

[tzzA]

right.

First question (may have been explained already, just want to make sure):

What is the basic combat premise? i.e., EAW-style galactic domination w/separate space and land stuff and one battle affecting the units/placement for the next, or traditional all-in-one-map (SupCom, C&C) air/land/sometimes sea maps where one battle does not affect units/etc. for the next. Or something else entirely.

Second question(same):

Are bases placed for you? (EaW) moveable? (FoC) not prebuilt? (SupCom)

Third(same):

Can you produce units/(structures if #3 above) in combat, or do all units have to be produced beforehand?

[SilverCrusader]

Probably you get to choose a set of buildings to take in beforehand that would be worth point values.

[femoimal]

right.

1-What is the basic combat premise?

2-Are bases placed for you? moveable? not prebuilt?

3-Can you produce units/(structures if #3 above) in combat, or do all units have to be produced beforehand?

well, the way i saw it:

1- units are produced by structures. Arranged into groups/swarms/fleets (sometimes semi-automatically) and manipulated as such. You can post them to fixed defensive missions or have them move around like fleets. Say you want to invade a planet: you warp in that stellar system (one system, one planet?), fight a space battle (for the zergs, needs thoughts), then what remains in orbit lands whatever it has and fights over land (with support from space units -space or air). Very much like EAW, i presume.

2- You start with some pre-built colonies, build some as you go. Terrans can move their bases, as they do in SC1. Perhaps some advanced tech allows for races to warp entires bases as sealed bubbles across the zodiac (protoss mothership could be such a base, just enclosed in a field).

3- Good question. I suppose interceptors-type units may be produced in combat. Maintenance of units (small units repair) and basic damage control (say repair drones) should also be included. For space battles, its pretty much simple. For the ground battle, we could include some reinforcement idea, random or prioritized.

what do you guys recon ?

[masterofhobbiton]

Hey, this looks like an interesting project. I sincerely wish you guys the best of luck, as it'd be really cool to play.

The groups of ships is a cool concept and I think it'd make fighting with zerg more fun. However, I can see why you need thoughts because without any captial ships or anything there's nothing to attack. What if you make it so that instead of a capital ship the zerg cerebrate is there? Cerebrates can move through space somehow, and his ship thing could like spawn scourges or something. :D

[femoimal]

Mastah, zergs are a pain for space battles, if you want to keep a mininum of consistency: flapping wings in space is not a thing i would enjoy seeing. Call me a maniac, but that sucks.

So, what kind of zerg units could be space-bound ?
1- manta-kind super transports, mentioned in the 10-years graphics thread
2- some spore-asteroid ?
3- overlords, of course
4- combat overlords ?
5- scourge, if rocket-powered (short range, suckling on overlords) (for rocket power propulsion, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_beetle)
6- devourers ? No wings, perhaps some ion thrusters ?
7- guardians ? No wings anyway, so that leaves either gravitic field generation (like ovvies), or Magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamic_drive) in dense atmospheres.
8- queens, same as guardians

... As we see, zergs are mostly not very comfortable with vaccum when it comes to fighting within it. Its more like transit space for them. I mean, overlords and scourge are pretty lame against terran and protoss units, until late-game units arrive. Now, is that a flaw ? Or different race philosophy ?

We could of course add some hard-vacuum units for the zergs, but would that just make them a protoss race in disguise ? I have an opinion on that, but rather would like to leave that question open.

So its like this: finally, how do zergs live and die in space ?

PS: what about introducing a 4th race? Xel'naga survivors, Xel'Naga sentient machines ... any ideas ?

[SilverCrusader]

4th race? That would be terribly hard to come up with. Oh and for reinforcements you could have a communications facility that would be able to be deployed and allow you to deploy reinforcements at the cost of energy or something.

[femoimal]

4th race...

Think of it, we have human, we have slender aliens with psy powers. Then brute organic force, halfway between insect and reptiles. I think there is room for an almost pure cybernetic race, with looks akin to crustaceans, for instance. Black shiny shells, with phosphorescent blue and yellow markings and multiple eyes and antennas. Its just a matter of design identity and gameplay personality. Inserting another race in SC canon is a doodle. Say they are the offspring of another Xel'Naga experiment, or the heirs of the Xel'naga themselves.

What would machines, pure machines, would look like, gameplay-wise ? You guys ponder upon that, I think we could add something more.


We could use reinforcements and an idea of reserves. You put units in reserve: they might not deploy immediately, but would be transfered on the battlefield in the location you specify when you activate them. Nydus worms and canals could increase the amount of reserves you got, say. Same with warp gates (that could also increase the mobility of troops when you want to face an invasion), or terran shuttles.

[masterofhobbiton]

Well, in cinematics a zerg force utterly pwns a battlecruiser. Seemed alright to me.

[SilverCrusader]

I thinks the Zerg arsenal would be more so melee damage in space than ranged. Perhaps the units of the SoW team could be utilized to an advantage here *hint hint*.

[femoimal]

melee damage... like treacherously sticking on the ship's hull and having it for dessert ?

[SilverCrusader]

Exactly like that, or mostly boarding, the Zerg could be notorious for boarding a ship and tearing it to pieces from the inside.