Putting Together PvP Druid

[GenocideAlive]

I've been looking through gear for quite a while, and honestly I'm a little dazzled with the number of choices. I've read a good deal about the numbers game for improving your character, but I'm still rather stuck in trying to decide what pieces would benefit me how. I understand that Resilience in PvP is desireable, but I'm not entirely sure how. From what I can gather, it doesn't help much vs. top-tier Raid gear anyway.

So if you wanted to put together a Feral Druid for PvP, how would you go about doing it? I'm especially desperate for a chest piece and foot pieces, so starting there would probably help best.

[ScottieIWU]

Resilience is a statistic, usable only in pvp really, that decreases the following things:

Chance of being critically struck.
Damage recieved from critical strikes.
Damage from periodic damage (DoTs)

I believe resilience is capped at about 20% mitigation, somewhere around the 360 mark. That number isn't perfect, though. It's especially useful in PvP because certain classes will spec in such a way that if you aren't crit, their damage is severely reduced.

Examples: 3-minute mages who use Arcane Power and Presence of Mind Pyroblasts will have a hard time hitting that 7k pyro crit that would enable the fast kill. Survival hunters are gimped against high-resil opponents (why marks is the main pvp spec) and so on.

On the whole raid gear vs. pvp gear thing, PvP gear isn't meant to do as much damage as it is meant to make you live through more. It's not uncommon for a warlock in mostly Season 2 arena gear to be boasting somewhere around 14k-15k health (especially if they're demo specced). Therefore, while a raid-geared (T5/T6) player may be doing tons of damage, they will usually lack the ridiculous resilience/health bonuses of PvP gear and be surprisingly easy to kill. If you saw comparable teams, one equipped in T5 and the other in full S2, you'd probably find the S2 team come out on top.

In terms of what gear to get, you want PvP gear. Don't piss your time away getting battleground reward set pieces (chest, shoulders, legs, hands, helm), but rather get the off-set pieces. Your boots, belt and bracers should be the epic pvp rewards. Don't forget to get your PvP trinket (non-epic), your pvp ring, neck and any other epic pvp piece you can find at the Champion's Hall in the Old Town section of Stormwind City.

You'll want arena gear for your pvp set, and IIRC, you'll notice that there is even +healing on the feral versions of the arena sets. This makes druids extremely versatile, especially if you spec into Heart of the Wild (in the feral tree). One major upgrade would probably be snagging the Druid staff from the arena vendor, but that's a costly 3200 or so arena points (depending on team ratings/sizes, about 6+ weeks of work). All the glad stuff can be found in Area 52.

There is the issue of Season 3 gear, which will be making it's debut with patch 2.3 I don't know exactly when that will be, but at that point in time, Season 1 gladiator gear will be available to be purchased with BG honor points. Season 2 arena gear will be available at the reduced price that Season 1 gear is currently priced at. Then, Season 3 gear will be available at the pricing that S2 gear is at now.

This makes it questionable as to whether or not you should waste your time on getting any S2 gear. If you're content with being vastly outgeared by many people currently, you can simply play your minimum of 10 games per week in an arena and stockpile points. If you had something like 5-6k, you could get anywhere from 2-3 season 3 pieces and be ahead of many, many people in terms of pvp gearing. At that point, it would become far easier to beat people who are still in S2 (or...even S1) gear.

Hope this was helpful, feel free to ask anything.

[WarInSerbia]

The only player ever that defeated me is Gymoon and he was 6 levels lower than me when I pwned her 3 times than later that day he pwned me three times (as that cat form i think)...
And believe me I fought with some that are 6 levels higher than me...

Well I never played with a druid before but I heard that they have some realy powerfull spells...

[GenocideAlive]

Thanks, Scotty. I was looking through the PvP gears in Area 52 and Old Town in Stormwind, and I found that by in large most of the stuff I'm wearing has higher stats than the PvP stuff. S2 gear has slightly better stats, but not amazingly better o-m-f-g. Most of the rings, neck, etc. has way better stats than the PvP trinkets. Like the Core of Arkenos, gives me a 200AP bonus for a time, which is the equivalent of 100STR.

I hate to be such an information leech, but is there some way you could look at my gear and tell me what you think? I should be in the armory and all that, my charname is listed under my WB name. I know it's a lot of your time and you probably have better things to do, but if you'd give it a shot, I'd appreciate it.

[ScottieIWU]

Thanks, Scotty. I was looking through the PvP gears in Area 52 and Old Town in Stormwind, and I found that by in large most of the stuff I'm wearing has higher stats than the PvP stuff. S2 gear has slightly better stats, but not amazingly better o-m-f-g. Most of the rings, neck, etc. has way better stats than the PvP trinkets. Like the Core of Arkenos, gives me a 200AP bonus for a time, which is the equivalent of 100STR.Well the reason for that is that most of the PVP epics are level 115+ gear (about the same, depending on what season, as some of the middle-of-the-road Tier 5 quality epics).

Itemization works similar to something such as Morrowind or many other stat-based RPGs in which for each extra point you put into the item, it costs an increasing amount of itemization points. Because of this, you'll see a lot more of the points for PVP gear put into Stamina and Resilience than the DPS stats, such as strength, agility, etc.

To make up for this (at least on hunter gear) they tend to load the gear with more agility than actual AP, or more critical strike rating than AP. I believe Druid gear gets a lot of +healing to make them more versatile in arenas in terms of hybrid classes/specs.

The example I'll present is my own character. Unbuffed in PvE gear, I've got about 2020 AP, 30% crit rating, 812 agility or so, and about 8.7k health. Put me in my PvP gear, and you'll see that my health rises to over 10.5k, I've got about 30% crit rating (because the gear gives so much), but only about 1600 AP and 680 or so agility.

The main reason that it's advisible to use PvP gear is that you will survive longer, which then makes up for the AP difference that you'll notice with the PvP gear on. The best example I can think of is simply that, what good does 2300 AP do when you're getting burst dpsed down within 5 seconds. If you took the time to gather up a solid set of PvP gear, you'd be looking at somewhere in the area of 1800 or so AP (a fair loss) but probably 10-12k health in Cat form. Add the multipliers from armor/health in bear form into the equation, and you're a fairly large threat. Nothing is worse in PvP than a feral druid hopping into bear form and mauling 10 people to death because he can't be burned down before he does that much damage. That's your greatest asset, so it's advisible to use it.

I hate to be such an information leech, but is there some way you could look at my gear and tell me what you think? I should be in the armory and all that, my charname is listed under my WB name. I know it's a lot of your time and you probably have better things to do, but if you'd give it a shot, I'd appreciate it.Your gear is quite good for PvE, you'd be at about a Gruul's Lair or Magtheridon's level of gearing for tanking/DPS, which is fairly impressive. Your gear is definitely tank oriented, so having 2300 AP in cat is, once again, impressive considering that.

What I'd suggest are replacing your weakest (usually rare) pieces first for a PvP spec. Anything that doesn't really have much stam on it should be your first to go. Since most of that is tank gear, it has fair amounts of stam, but I'd suggest getting the BG honor reward belt as your first upgrade, and then using arena points to save up to get yourself the arena chest. With those two upgrades, you'll probably start noticing a significant difference in survivability in PvP.

Also, for a true PvP druid build, I'd retool your spec just a little bit to look something like this (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druid/talents.html?0100000000000000000005030321303221253 2125155003001000000000000).

Balance tree:

Using nature's grasp at some point in an arena can be vital against certain melee classes, because this spec allows you to heal for a fairly significant amount more than you would normally. Nature's grasp activated would basically allow you to root someone in place (preferably melee) and then heal yourself up, only to continue in.

Feral Tree:

You want ferocity (T1) for the reduced cost. Reduced cost = more specials = more damage.

Feral Instinct (T2) will help since in arenas you'll want to start stealthed, and having that improved stealth can give you the edge over resto druids who are trying to stealth in cat form (and will no doubt NOT have this talent) as well as certain specs of rogues. Getting the jump on stealthed classes can be the match itself. The thick hide talent is just more mitigation for more survivability.

Feral Swiftness (T3) is going to give you more edge, because mobility in stealth can also make or break a match. Being able to navigate and quickly get behind a target can help them not expect where to see you. Hunters have one flare per 15 sec or so, and if they throw that in the wrong spot, or where they thought you were, it may miss just because of this talent, and there is the edge you might have needed. The dodge and mitigation are simply plusses. Feral Charge (T3) is another plus, because bear form charges can be beautiful against any caster who is trying to heal/fear/attack. That + bash, depending on your teammate(s) in an arena may be the end of that opponent. Sharpened claws is crit, and because of the way resilience mitigates crit, you want to spec any talent you can to help you out in that area.

Predatory strikes (T4) is another AP modifier, 'nuff said. Primal fury is what's beautiful here. Getting crits = more combo points in cat, which leads to your finishing move faster and with less energy, allowing you to snag those 2-3k finishing Ferocious Bites.

Faerie Fire (T5) in BGs helps against stealthed opponents and translates to extra damage, and Savage Fury is much the same, just more damage. Nurturing instincts is the true meat of the T5 talents of the feral tree for arena, because increasing your healing by 50% of strength may translate to HUGE amounts. Based solely on your gear right now, that 50% increase would be almost 200 +healing. Being able to drop form, throw hots on, and then continue to DPS is what makes druids so lethal. The DPS then not only has to fight your huge mitigation in bear form, but also the hots that keep ticking on you. It's often a losing battle.

Hear of the Wild (T6) is just more stats in forms, which translates to more +healing (from nurturing instincts) as well as more mana pool for healing, and more strength/stamina in your feral forms. Survival of the fittest is yet another stat modifier, which really can't hurt.

Primal tenacity has only 2 pts for versatility in the Resto tree, but 10% resist to stun and fear is beautiful against certain opponents. Leader of the Pack is a must have, as it not only buffs your melee teammates, but also heals you both when you crit. A nice little buff to have.

Primal Strikes (T7) is just more damage from crits and reduction of AoE effects. The AoE part is more of a PvE talent for bosses that have abilities that hammer on melee classes in raids, but it can also be useful as resisting a mage trying to frost nova or arcane explosion you out of stealth may save your neck.

Mangle is a must have. Extra damage, huge crits. Love it.

Resto tree:

Imp MotW is just more stat/armor modifiers and helps buff your teammate. Those resistances can also come in handy against caster classes. You won't resist much, but one or two partial or complete resists here and there are brutal on casters. Furor is a must in PvP because of the rate at which you'll often be shifting in and out of forms. If you don't get that extra little energy/rage, you'll find that you're in the form you want and not doing any damage because you can't use specials.

Natural shapeshifter is another thing for powershifting, simply to avoid burning your entire mana pool on healing, only to find that you can't shift to bear form because you're OOM.

Omen of clarity is amazing, since melee hits may proc a free special attack for you. Or, if you get a proc, you can cast a heal on yourself free of mana cost and pop back into form. It's very useful and is great for building combos.

I know you wanted me to look at gear, but basically I have to emphasize that for PvP you're looking for survivability over AP. In the case of PvP, most well-geared teams (full S2 arena teams, etc) will be in the same boat you are, often with less offensive stats. However, you'll no doubt one day find yourself in the situation where they may burn you slower, but you'll lose to their weaker offense because it's taking you about 5 minutes to burn the opponent down.

Edit: By the way, I just noticed your arena scores and I have no idea how your battlegroup is, but on my BG a 1700 team is doing above average, so if you keep adding PvP gear, you'll only notice that you're winning more and more games. It's really that simple, you keep doing what you're doing and just add the survivability, and you'll find that you're doing it better.

[GenocideAlive]

Well, my Battlegroups come from relationships that are currently beyond me to understand. I formed these relationships, I was involved in the choices that lead to my becoming part of these Battlegroups, but for some reason I have never actually battled outside of a 2v2 arena with a pair of cheese-ass frostmages with a useless Paladin partner.

As for the stat build, I can agree with your analysis in all points except one, which is the Resistance to Fear skill. You put 2/3 points in it with one point in Nature's whatever over on the 1st tree, and frankly I find that one worthless in comparison. I can improve my resistance to Fear spells (pretty much the lock's bread and butter vs. Druids) by 50%, or I can get a little Entangling Roots.

In combat I'm not going to be doing a shitton of casting that will benefit from Entangling Roots. I might as well just cast Bark Skin and then CC them before I cast if I'm that worried about being interrupted. On top of that, if I start getting spammed by a Warlock, I have very few windows with which to save myself. One of those windows is to Resist his Fear spell. I know you like the Roots spell, but I just find it useless against 75% of the classes. Warlock, Mages, Hunter, all these classes have no problem with my Roots.

But I'm the one asking for advice so yeah, I appreciate your time. So you'd recommend that I replace my boots, right? Boots aren't great. Chestpiece is going to get PvP replaced, because it's a bad piece--I could do better. And so I should get these things, and have them enchanted, yes? Or use one of those armor kits things? Cobrahide armor and an agility enchantment. Right? Or no? You can get something enchanted and use an armor kit, or you can't? One or the other?

[ScottieIWU]

The resist mechanic thing is really personal preference/use. It's not going to change anything with the other parts of the specs to use that one point in the fear resist, so I see no issue there, if you think you won't use it.

As far as gear, yah, I'd got Chest/Boots first (Arena/Honor respectively). Eventually you want everything you're wearing to have resilience on it, including your weapon (IMO last to replace, since you have a good one anyway). However, replace greens & blues first, because the epics still have a relatively solid value in PvP, despite being tuned more toward PvE.

It's kind of like the lesser of two evils, sure, it's still PvE gear but it's GOOD PvE gear.

Enchantment-wise. There's actually a resilience to chest enchant that I'd suggest (once you get your PvP chest) as well as socketing the gem slots with one of the two available PvP gems or putting some blue stamina gems in there. Stick with whatever enchants you'd normally use (other than resilience to chest) with your gear, agi or AP to gloves/boots/bracers. I'd suggest clefthide leg armor for your legs, just because 40 stam is nothing to laugh at (most other stam enchants are minmal, comparatively).

[GenocideAlive]

Hunh. Well, I was thinking Cobrahide because it offers 40AP and 20 critical or something like that. But I guess Stamina would be more desireable, because it offers more survivability and thus more time to get kills. Especially when I fight casters, I have a ridiculous amount of fucking problems with my HP coming close to outlasting their mana. That seems to be the crux of the Druid in PvP against casters, HoTs and HP to survive their mana, then seriously screw them after.

But you still didn't answer my question about Armor grafts + enchantments. Can you do that? Or is it one or the other?

And I've got that +10 to resilence thing from Halaa. That raid we did on it a while ago got me 99 tokens. :D

[ScottieIWU]

But you still didn't answer my question about Armor grafts + enchantments. Can you do that? Or is it one or the other?Doh! Sorry. I was on my way out to class when I replied. Yah, it's one or the other, you can't have both, as the armor kits count as enchantments.

However, what I'd suggest is applying armor kits UNTIL you get a different enchant as leaving an item that would otherwise be enchantable unenchanted is unwise.

How many times can you say enchant or a form thereof in one sentence, eh?

[Maegtelluma]

Well, my Battlegroups come from relationships that are currently beyond me to understand. I formed these relationships, I was involved in the choices that lead to my becoming part of these Battlegroups, but for some reason I have never actually battled outside of a 2v2 arena with a pair of cheese-ass frostmages with a useless Paladin partner.


That's not nice ;). Two counterspells is a pretty solid helping of not gonna happen.

Like Scottie said, you have to pick between enchantments and leg armor kits. I would personally suggest the stamina one, especially if world pvp and battlegrounds will be your focus, just because of the abundance of casters in our battlegroup. Once you get more resilience (as you get Gladiator gear and some of the non-set boots, bracers, etc from the honor vendor) your resilience will be high enough that you can focus more on damage output. Resil goes up pretty rapidly - I do not go out of my way at all to stack resil and I have 281 in my current gear.

EDIT: This is the armory of one of the better feral druids (in my opinion) on Arthas. His team beat us in 2v2 in what ended up being a 27 minute fight or something.

http://wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Arthas&n=Huatok

A fair percentage of the gear he has is from Karazhan or Gladiator gear, but if nothing else it should help with enchants and how to balance your stats. He's still using the stamina leg enchant with 267 resil, for what that's worth.

[GenocideAlive]

After looking through that one, Maeg, I'm inclined to see why people get resilience and why Druids are set the way they are. Yeah, getting those extra points in AGI and STR will make you a powerhouse with the normal equipment. Once you get those points, though, you'll be a relative pussy compared to the rest of the teams. They focus-fire you, there probably isn't much that your team is going to be able to do about it. With Resilence and those +heal items, you can pop out of Cat, throw on Bloom and Rejuv, go into Bear, and those spells can heal you for something like an extra 1000 life. That's nuts.

[Geno]

As a Druid, I've got a few things to share as far as tips, tricks, and what to get.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0zZxGMsfroeuioVxhz

First off, this is a build my friend PvP's in. Depending on what grouping she has for the week, she modifies by either going 3/3 Nat Shapeshifter (She prefers) or 1/3 Shapeshifter and 2/2 Nurturing Instincts for healing. She PvP's with a Rogue partner (2/2 Nurt) and occasionally a Holy / Prot Pally (3/3 Shift). This lets her tailor her secondary skills to match the strengths of the team. With the Rogue, she usually goes to burn an opponent as fast as possilble - Usually the healer or a clothie caster. Otherwise, with the Pally, she goes for longetivity, since most teams rely on being able to CC one person (Odds are the healer) in order to take out a DPS class that will be overrun (In her case, she usually plays Swiftshift to lose melee or goes to bear to outlast)

Things to look for: PvP gear hands down is your friend. Especially S1 or S2 Glad gear. The travel bonus is invaluable. Personally, I run 5/5 Merc Glad on my Druid (Imabug of Cenarius). My total resillience on her in PvP stands at a quite nice 380~ number. In a few weeks, I'll be at the cap (Currently 400, which is 20% less damage from crits, 10% less chance of crit, and 10% off DoTs). Traveling faster in cheetah is amazing - Warriors are by far my worst enemy healing, and even for you, because once they get on you, you have to somehow peel them off. Getting away is key in order to mount an offensive, otherwise, MS will destroy your healer's mana, and you're screwed.

Basically, use forms to your advantage. Grasp comes into play here. Especially when facing Melee/melee or melee/healer combos. My partner in 2's is a Rogue with little PvP gear.. But he makes up for it in raw damage, being able to easily burst down a Holy Priest in arenas in little under 10-12 seconds (So long as he's not interupted or feared off - Gogo Cloak of skill). While he does this, usually I'm getting assulted by the melee. In this case, I usually bear up, then pop Grasp. Grasp can be cast in Bear, Cat, caster, and Moonkin forms which makes in insanely valuable - Basically, you'll wait to see Grasp go off (Watch your buffs or use Scrolling Combat Text to catch it), then take one step, immidiately powershift to Travel (Macros help. There are macros to immidately cancel forms, then cast travel form. I don't use this personally, but starting out, you'll probably find it a help), then dart away. The melee, even when a Warrior, will have to take a second to either hit the trinket, or stance dance to get Intercept ready. In either case, with a PvP bonus, you're well out of range, and able to assult your other target.

Another tip - Watch your own health more than your opponent's. Realize that many classes such as mages and warriors have talents or skills that deal huge chunks of burst damage at low health, or in general, can blow chunks of your health bar off with only a couple swings. Keep a few things prepared, such as the honor trinket that heals, Spyglass of the Hidden Fleet (SSC Trash mob drop), the mushroom trinket out of normal Slave Pens second boss, or anything along those lines. These "Oh shit" buttons can and will save you from being burst down - Always have a trump. Especially ones that protect your health or give you health.

Something else - Use Ventrillo, Teamspeak, or in-game chat. As a Druid, we have a VERY wide array of abilities to use including, but not limited to: 6 second effective CC (Not long enough for many people to burn a trinket on unless they're smart - This means 6 seconds of raw focused power on one target), rooting something for up to ten seconds (Very handy), sleeping a hunter pet or another Druid (If you personally have had this happen to you, you need to get a mod to tell you what people are casting. If it hits you, you're screwed), healing in clutch situations (Even as a Feral, you WILL heal occasionally), as well as short stunlock durations (Pounce -> Mangle -> Energy tick -> Shred -> Bear form -> Bash -> Enrage -> Mangle -> Powershift cat -> Maim -> Go from here). All of these skills need to be known to yourself as well as your partner.

Broadcast everything you do from 5 seconds before the match begins (I always announce "Nature's Grasp, stealthing, going left/right/straight" with my partner to make sure he knows where I'm at) to the killing blow. You don't have to say things like "Okay... Pouncing, mangling, energy tick, shredding, maiming, waiting a second... And... Now I'm mangling again and shredding and..." <-- This is common sense what you're doing. Announce big things. Here's an example:

"Okay, starting out left side... Warrior and Priest team. Warrior has a big two handed sword, Priest is in shadowform. Opening on Priest. *Priest now comes under attack, fears you* "Using trinket, going back to Priest. Burn him hard." *Warrior now is attacking you* "Going to bear, warrior pinned on me." *Shift to bear now, continue on Priest... Warrior changes targets* "Cycloning warrior, going back to Priest. Heal incoming." *While this goes on you shift, cyclone, then use Healing Touch to heal your partner. After that, you shift and continue on the Priest.*

This is just a craptacular way of spelling it, since it's a horrible team makeup, but it should give you an idea of how I arena. My rating in 2's isn't great, mostly due to it being a rough battlegroup (Hyjal, Cenarius, and some of Vashj PvP'ers are hard to bring down. Hyjal and Cenarius have actually been said to be two of the hardest to beat PvP'ers on the test realm according to others), not to mention, I don't really like Arena PvP. I'm a Warsong junkie honestly (Especially in my spec).

However, hopefully that'll help you get some ideas for Druid PvP, how to tailor it, and give you some strategies to work with. /nod

~Larry "Geno" Meyers