karune batch#19

[Mjolniir]

destroyable doodads and ...protoss eat sunlight!?!, all can be found here.

http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=60845&p=1&#post60845

beat sc.org again

[DarkMirror]

YES! Fianlly, it has ben proven correct that they gain food through cosmic radiation!

[Kellanved]

We ultimately get our energy from sunlight, but that's because plants and growing crops use sunlight. The Protoss still need raw material; they have to grow, and regenerate wounds, etc. It can't be just from sunlight because the mass equivalence of the energy they would attain (from mc² where m is mass at rest) is tiny. On Earth, if we're about 1/3 m² as a surface absorbing the sunlight (my estimate; we're probably less), we'd gain the equivalence of about 10^-7 kg of mass from the sun's radiance in a year. If the protoss have some mechanism to grow by converting pure energy into mass (doubtful, but it's their only hope if they grow off sunlight), their sun must be such that any human being would be seared right away. Either that, or a 100 year old protoss weighs about 10^-5 kg (assuming they absorb all energy all the time at maximum rate and that it's always day) which should allow a zergling to take out a city of zealots. That's also about 1 calorie per day (one kilocalorie; one calorie as labeled on a food jar) which means that an average person eating about 2000 per day is acquiring the same chemical energy that a protoss must wait about 5 years for (and that is only considering the chemical energy the humans gain, not the mass of raw material which is many orders of magnitude greater than 2000 kcal).

The sun's power output per unit area has to be at least trillions of times greater on Aiur than on Earth for the numbers to be reasonable, and protoss and humans can live in the same environment. That's definately not a reasonable answer for how the protoss are nourished.

EDIT:I'm disappointed that protoss now heal shields at over 2x the rate in SC1 outside battle. Blizzard's probably doing it because nobody ever used shield batteries. If you tossies want fast shield regen, use the damn shield batteries. Uber-healing is a little unbalanced IMO.

[Serban]

Explosion will destroy doodads -> Ranged units -> Attack Ground function...

See my logic?
Ghosts = screwed.

I know it's not necessarily for them to include that function, but if they don't, then to destroy doodads you can do one of two things:
1) Get an enemy unit to stand near them and kill it.
2) Suicide one of your own units :/

[DarkMirror]

...

The 'Toss are just a mental ghost living inside a fleshy cage. They can shoot lasers.

I think that normal science doesnt apply.
EDIT: AND ARRG! Any unit can target a doodad that can be blown up! NOT JUST SPLASH!

[Mjolniir]

perhaps some doodads are targetable, like wc3

the protoss thing is probably a spoof(blizz has to have fun too)

[Serban]

perhaps some doodads are targetable, like wc3

Well, you can't send Riflemen or Footmen to attack trees in WC3, now can you? :concern:

[DarkMirror]

It has already been said that at least one type of doodad will be targetable. Try READING THE UPDATE.

[TitanWing]

We've know about destructible doodads since BlizzCon. There were ramps with rocks at the base.

[tremaparagon]

protoss must also filter feed, they are halfway between sponges and plants That is why the live so effing long!!!! Jesus!!!!! They grow slowly also, they absorb food SLOWLY ahem
EDIT:I'm disappointed that protoss now heal shields at over 2x the rate in SC1 outside battle. Blizzard's probably doing it because nobody ever used shield batteries. If you tossies want fast shield regen, use the damn shield batteries. Uber-healing is a little unbalanced IMO.
Ya except all three effing races will get stronger, so it wont be unbalanced by the time blizzard is done BALANCING it

[SilverCrusader]

Ever since blizzcon I knew shields regenerated faster, he clicked on a zealot and you could watch its shields sky rocket.
It isn't that big of a deal, it just makes protoss units tougher, so blizz might compromise with them being more expensive.

[TitanWing]

Or with them having a slightly HP heavy HP:shield ratio.

[Kellanved]

protoss must also filter feed, they are halfway between sponges and plants That is why the live so effing long!!!! Jesus!!!!! They grow slowly also, they absorb food SLOWLY ahem

Ya except all three effing races will get stronger, so it wont be unbalanced by the time blizzard is done BALANCING it

Nice criticism, and pleasant tone I might add.

1 - They have absorbed the mass equivalent of 10^-5kg in 100 years if they didn't move at all in their lifetime (use up energy) and if it was bright daylight for the whole time. I looked up Artanis' age (took a second) which is approximately 300 years, giving him a whopping maximum mass of 3*10^-5kg (that is 0.00003kg ~ 0.00007 pounds). My point holds.

2 - And the only way Blizzard can balance it well is from constant internet feedback just like in SC1 which is why I'm expressing my opinion in that respect. (That is, I'm referring to my opinion of super fast shield regen being a little unbalanced.)

Or with them having a slightly HP heavy HP:shield ratio.
Good idea, I agree

[DarkMirror]

...

The 'Toss are just a mental ghost living inside a fleshy cage. They can shoot lasers.

I think that normal science doesnt apply.
EDIT: AND ARRG! Any unit can target a doodad that can be blown up! NOT JUST SPLASH!


And I quote...

[ChimTheGrim21]

We ultimately get our energy from sunlight, but that's because plants and growing crops use sunlight. The Protoss still need raw material; they have to grow, and regenerate wounds, etc. It can't be just from sunlight because the mass equivalence of the energy they would attain (from mc² where m is mass at rest) is tiny. On Earth, if we're about 1/3 m² as a surface absorbing the sunlight (my estimate; we're probably less), we'd gain the equivalence of about 10^-7 kg of mass from the sun's radiance in a year. If the protoss have some mechanism to grow by converting pure energy into mass (doubtful, but it's their only hope if they grow off sunlight), their sun must be such that any human being would be seared right away. Either that, or a 100 year old protoss weighs about 10^-5 kg (assuming they absorb all energy all the time at maximum rate and that it's always day) which should allow a zergling to take out a city of zealots. That's also about 1 calorie per day (one kilocalorie; one calorie as labeled on a food jar) which means that an average person eating about 2000 per day is acquiring the same chemical energy that a protoss must wait about 5 years for (and that is only considering the chemical energy the humans gain, not the mass of raw material which is many orders of magnitude greater than 2000 kcal).

The sun's power output per unit area has to be at least trillions of times greater on Aiur than on Earth for the numbers to be reasonable, and protoss and humans can live in the same environment. That's definately not a reasonable answer for how the protoss are nourished.

EDIT:I'm disappointed that protoss now heal shields at over 2x the rate in SC1 outside battle. Blizzard's probably doing it because nobody ever used shield batteries. If you tossies want fast shield regen, use the damn shield batteries. Uber-healing is a little unbalanced IMO.

This is one of the most annoying posts I've ever read.. congrats. Just enjoy the lore for what it is PLZ.

Edit: Oh an SilverCrusader, what does Akaru mean (the Hiragana characters in your signature)? I know Aka is red, not sure what the word Akaru is in Japanese just yet...

[Faiien]

1. Will the Protoss be getting any mechanism for healing their units or repairing their buildings?

2. With the new physics engine, can explosions affect surroundings? (like hurt or push units, destroy doodads, etc ) (sc2blog.com)


3. How long does a unit typically take to make from concept to playable unit?


4. Are the units on the official site finalized, or is everything still up for grabs at this point? (gamereplays.org)


5. What do the Protoss eat? (where do they get energy and mass?) (starcraftcz.com) i seriously hoped the nxt update wouldnt dissapoint.....
1.y would you give any race with super fast regeneration abilities healing units?
2.kinda been implied what the new physics engine can do...which is basically nothing..except make everything prettier and look more "realistic"
3....nc
4.are you serious? its already been mentioned numerous times that any unit can be cut or added at any time...why?...
5....nc

for the nc...i was hoping to learn more about gameplay not lore or the time it takes to make a concept into a model...YES! the protoss absorb sunlight for a food source...that totally rocks...
sigh when will a good update come.

[Kimera757]

We ultimately get our energy from sunlight, but that's because plants and growing crops use sunlight. The Protoss still need raw material; they have to grow, and regenerate wounds, etc. It can't be just from sunlight

Obviously it's not all from sunlight. Plants get their raw material from carbon dioxide and even break down water (the oxygen that comes from a plant comes from water, not the carbon dioxide, and this was proven with radioactive oxygen experiments); every autotrophic life form needs a chemical energy source (such as carbon dioxide; chemotrophs use more "exotic" compounds), as they're obviously not going to convert energy directly into matter. I agree that Protoss don't have the surface area to be viable (they don't have leaves or equivalents) but otherwise I don't agree with you.

the protoss thing is probably a spoof(blizz has to have fun too)

No, Protoss being photosynthetic is explicitly stated in the Firstborn novel.

I wonder how many people read the novels. On the one hand, Blizzard keeps making them, and they wouldn't if they didn't make any money, plus (IMO) most of the novels are good. (There's been seven released so far, five of which were awesome, again, IMO.) Yet so few people on messageboards seem to have read any, and I would expect messageboard posters are more "obsessed" with StarCraft than regular players.

[TitanWing]

Books cost money. I like my money.

[Thedutchjelle]

I actually don't like this feeding idea of the Protoss.. I liked it before, when I thought they used their awesome psionic powers to generate energy.

Anyway, Imo this was kinda a pointless QaA, not much new. And I hope they don't put much from the books in it because they are not sold here at all.

[Anoiktos]

Perhaps they siphon matter from the surrounding atmosphere like sponges in order to grow, and only use the sunlight for energy.

[Mjolniir]

personally, i assumed they drew sustenance from energies emitted by khaydarin crystals(hence pylons) and the void(dt)

[Kellanved]

Obviously it's not all from sunlight. Plants get their raw material from carbon dioxide and even break down water (the oxygen that comes from a plant comes from water, not the carbon dioxide, and this was proven with radioactive oxygen experiments); every autotrophic life form needs a chemical energy source (such as carbon dioxide; chemotrophs use more "exotic" compounds), as they're obviously not going to convert energy directly into matter. I agree that Protoss don't have the surface area to be viable (they don't have leaves or equivalents) but otherwise I don't agree with you.



No, Protoss being photosynthetic is explicitly stated in the Firstborn novel.

The chemical conversions autotrophs all require energy (there is a net positive chemical energy of the difference between the final and initial product, even though the amount of atoms are the same). I'm well aware that they don't convert energy directly into matter, so I should have been more specific, in that we get our chemical energy from the sun, but our mass comes from raw material. If protoss are photosynthetic, but the sun isn't the entirety of their sustenance, then I simply misunderstood Karune (anything could go in sci-fi so I guess he should've been specific).

I agree with many of the above statements that this update was pretty pointless. I've been disappointed with several of the last few updates, and I am really itching to see those damned zerg already.

[Kimera757]

The chemical conversions autotrophs all require energy (there is a net positive chemical energy of the difference between the final and initial product, even though the amount of atoms are the same). I'm well aware that they don't convert energy directly into matter, so I should have been more specific, in that we get our chemical energy from the sun, but our mass comes from raw material. If protoss are photosynthetic, but the sun isn't the entirety of their sustenance, then I simply misunderstood Karune (anything could go in sci-fi so I guess he should've been specific).

He said they gain nutrition from the sun, rather than "all of their nutrition" from the sun. Note that Karune, and probably Christie Golden, Metzen and the like aren't biologists; they simply used an alternate term for photosynthesis (eg "they get nutrition from the sun") and left it at that. We simply fill in the blanks. The reference to water could mean they asked a real biologist... or maybe they just figured they had to mention water because photosynthetic plants need water too.

Note that white-skinned Protoss like Artanis couldn't really exist... but then again the artists aren't biologists either.

I am really itching to see those damned zerg already.

Zerg are probably really hard design with the new control scheme.

I actually don't like this feeding idea of the Protoss.. I liked it before, when I thought they used their awesome psionic powers to generate energy.

That doesn't make sense. If they're using their psionic power to generate energy, where is the energy to power their psionic abilities coming from? Living things need to "eat" something.

[Lipton]

That batch, begs the question... how do Protoss poop :D

[DarkMirror]

Knowing that they just absorb cosmic energy... they probobly just release a scrubbed version of that energy.

[AJ]

beat sc.org again
i'm sorry, do you want a donut? :donut:

[Serban]

That batch, begs the question... how do Protoss poop :D

Indeed, what goes in must come out... One way or another.

[TitanWing]

That batch, begs the question... how do Protoss poop :D
Dear God...

[Mjolniir]

on second thought, i'll keep showing sc.org up:D

protoss poo...you better watch what you say or...


How do protoss go poopoo? (warboards.org)

[Protogod]

Lol this is funny...

cuz ya know, sc2 is all about the poop spam.