Pisces
09-21-2007, 8:27 AM
Ok, opened it up and my immediate thoughts were, damn! New format. It is the same as all the other new 40k codexes and fantasy army lists (which means "haha" to other races getting an update) but my vampire counts list is easily navigatiable due to the coloured pages seperating the rules/introduction section from the points/details section. Not to mention the reference page now has credits and a picture instead of psychic power and upgrade details because we all of course memorise all those rules and need to know who recieved a special thanks so much more when playing.
When looking at the details, I am thinking they dumbed everything down, they no longer have rules for different legions, they no longer have fast attack daemons, hell they don't even have daemons belonging to a power anymore. Upgrades are severly limited and balance has been sacrificed in the name of simplicity; for example, it costs the same to upgrade 5 marines with an extra attack as it does for 20 marines, sure there may be advantages of having a small squad over a large one, but there are advantages to having a large squad over a small one and neither are extreme enough to justify that sort of messed up balancing. Lords and most of the army have lost most of the ability to make them unique, no veteran skills, no first turn charging lords etc, now you have lord, daemon prince or sorceror all with set stats and limited options.
CSM are now 15 points. Havocs now make better assault infantry than marines as the assault weapons & upgrades for havocs are the same price as marines but they can have 2-3 extra assualt weapons. Vehicles are slightly cheaper. Marks are now icons so you buy them per squad, like fantasy, except the benefits are per model. Undivided is still the same, Khorne is +1 attack, Tzeentch is +1 to invulnerable save or 5+ if they don't have one and plus 1 psychic power for sorcerors, Slaneesh is +1 initiative and nurgle is +1 toughness. Generally I think this makes the marks a lot more boring, they have brought back berzerkers etc as seperate models (but you can still give normal marines marks) from normal marines but they are still by in large boring.
Adjusting for the 1 point increase in normal marines, plague marines are now 3 points more expensive and have feels no pain instead of true grit, which makes them a ton tougher but less tactical, I'm really pissed off at that to be honest; Noise marines are exactly the same except the blastmaster (the heavier noisegun) is slightly more powerful and a shit load more expensive, and doom sirens (template) are noticible more powerful and slightly more expensive, and of course 1 up on initiative only applys for noise marines not their close combat friends; berzerkers are 1 point more expensive, lost their berzerk, gained furious charge and lost the ability to upgrade their close combat weapons to Khornate chainaxes; and last but not least, thousand sons, they are now 2 points cheaper, have a 4+ invulnerable save instead of an extra wound which has flipped them from being weak against lascannons and strong against bolters to strong against lascannons and weak against bolters, they are still slow and purposeful and now their bolters have an AP of 3 but they now MUST have a still crappy sorceror to lead them, ok, they are stronger than the rest of the squad, with an extra attack (2 counting bolt pistol combo) and force weapon but they are 60 (+36) points and you have no choice but to give them a psychic power, which isn't the end of the world as doombolt is a perfectly decent power but 70 points for a model (who if you lose then your squad only gets 1 dice for their slow roll) increases the price abit; still trying to work out what exactly the changes to tzeentch means in their usefulness.
So in conclusion: Change=suck and I am pissed that Plague marines lost true grit, especially after I bought really cheap some on sale.
Oh and btw, I still haven't read the codex through so I acknowledge my attitudes aren't thought through and are reactionary.
When looking at the details, I am thinking they dumbed everything down, they no longer have rules for different legions, they no longer have fast attack daemons, hell they don't even have daemons belonging to a power anymore. Upgrades are severly limited and balance has been sacrificed in the name of simplicity; for example, it costs the same to upgrade 5 marines with an extra attack as it does for 20 marines, sure there may be advantages of having a small squad over a large one, but there are advantages to having a large squad over a small one and neither are extreme enough to justify that sort of messed up balancing. Lords and most of the army have lost most of the ability to make them unique, no veteran skills, no first turn charging lords etc, now you have lord, daemon prince or sorceror all with set stats and limited options.
CSM are now 15 points. Havocs now make better assault infantry than marines as the assault weapons & upgrades for havocs are the same price as marines but they can have 2-3 extra assualt weapons. Vehicles are slightly cheaper. Marks are now icons so you buy them per squad, like fantasy, except the benefits are per model. Undivided is still the same, Khorne is +1 attack, Tzeentch is +1 to invulnerable save or 5+ if they don't have one and plus 1 psychic power for sorcerors, Slaneesh is +1 initiative and nurgle is +1 toughness. Generally I think this makes the marks a lot more boring, they have brought back berzerkers etc as seperate models (but you can still give normal marines marks) from normal marines but they are still by in large boring.
Adjusting for the 1 point increase in normal marines, plague marines are now 3 points more expensive and have feels no pain instead of true grit, which makes them a ton tougher but less tactical, I'm really pissed off at that to be honest; Noise marines are exactly the same except the blastmaster (the heavier noisegun) is slightly more powerful and a shit load more expensive, and doom sirens (template) are noticible more powerful and slightly more expensive, and of course 1 up on initiative only applys for noise marines not their close combat friends; berzerkers are 1 point more expensive, lost their berzerk, gained furious charge and lost the ability to upgrade their close combat weapons to Khornate chainaxes; and last but not least, thousand sons, they are now 2 points cheaper, have a 4+ invulnerable save instead of an extra wound which has flipped them from being weak against lascannons and strong against bolters to strong against lascannons and weak against bolters, they are still slow and purposeful and now their bolters have an AP of 3 but they now MUST have a still crappy sorceror to lead them, ok, they are stronger than the rest of the squad, with an extra attack (2 counting bolt pistol combo) and force weapon but they are 60 (+36) points and you have no choice but to give them a psychic power, which isn't the end of the world as doombolt is a perfectly decent power but 70 points for a model (who if you lose then your squad only gets 1 dice for their slow roll) increases the price abit; still trying to work out what exactly the changes to tzeentch means in their usefulness.
So in conclusion: Change=suck and I am pissed that Plague marines lost true grit, especially after I bought really cheap some on sale.
Oh and btw, I still haven't read the codex through so I acknowledge my attitudes aren't thought through and are reactionary.