better anti-air for undead.

[fading-ways]

ok for undead theres the garg and the fiend. Which is better? I think the fiend is better cause other ground units can attack em. But some players say gargs are better cause there air and they benefit from vamp aura. So which is better? You decide.

[Infested_Al]

gargs by a million jillion
especially with vamp and healing scrolls.

fiends are bad as aa. i mean u could get fiends to web batriders, but meh, u can just coil the wyrm or healing scroll your gargs

[DarkNessX]

Yah I mean bats only do like 400 dmg to a wyrm.

anyway yes gargs are better, but it depends, in like 4v4 and shit they don't work for ass because of how much shit they'll take from a mass ranged guy, but 1v1/2v2 gargs for sure.

[Exedore]

Definitely Gargoyles unless they only have 1 or 2 air units. Webbing units completely screws up the Crypt Fiend AI, so they'll web units and then trip all over each other, not really dealing any damange to anything. Gargoyles on the other hand, completely destroy air of any form and are great for harassing or going after siege and caster units in battles.

[aj2k12]

yeah, well, gargs have little hp, and spideys have a MUCH better ground attack. But if it's aa, gargs are hands down a better choice. (although I think hipps are MUCH better than gargs). It's also a good idea to upgrade your gargs, 'cause they're much better with more armor. And with bloodlust, they can say to all the air "you are the weakest link, GOODBYE" ;)

[Infested_Al]

actually i change my answer to undeads heros.

nova + swarm is gg to any light air force such as wyvern/hawk/garg

[Mordecai2k]

Go go flying ghouls!

[Infested_Al]

i wish

[Demon_Child]

Gargs = Flying ghouls. :rolleyes:

[cole]

yeah, well, gargs have little hp, and spideys have a MUCH better ground attack. But if it's aa, gargs are hands down a better choice. (although I think hipps are MUCH better than gargs). It's also a good idea to upgrade your gargs, 'cause they're much better with more armor. And with bloodlust, they can say to all the air "you are the weakest link, GOODBYE" ;)

Gargs are way better than hipps. A group of 12 gargs would own 12 hipps wthout a problem. And if you have vampire aura than its defiantly GG air. Thats why i see alot of mass gargs in ffa these days...

[Exedore]

Gargs are way better than hipps. A group of 12 gargs would own 12 hipps wthout a problem. And if you have vampire aura than its defiantly GG air. Thats why i see alot of mass gargs in ffa these days...

Actually, assuming no auras, the Hippogryphs win versus Gargoyles in equal numbers.

[Mordecai2k]

Actually, assuming no auras, the Hippogryphs win versus Gargoyles in equal numbers.

Heh. ^^

[Infested_Al]

unless the undead has level 3 vamp the hippos will totally rape gargs.

me and kenji tested out level 3 vamp vs level 3 thorns and 12/12 units.

the hippos won with 5 left over

[Mordecai2k]

unless the undead has level 3 vamp the hippos will totally rape gargs.

me and kenji tested out level 3 vamp vs level 3 thorns and 12/12 units.

the hippos won with 5 left over

It's because hippos are fat ^^

[cole]

unless the undead has level 3 vamp the hippos will totally rape gargs.

me and kenji tested out level 3 vamp vs level 3 thorns and 12/12 units.

the hippos won with 5 left over

Wow and i though garg/vamp would own hipp/thorns with no problem...Fuckin noob elf.

[Mordecai2k]

night elf is cool

[Schwitzer]

night elf is cool
That's a matter of personal taste.

[UndeadBastard]

unless the undead has level 3 vamp the hippos will totally rape gargs.

me and kenji tested out level 3 vamp vs level 3 thorns and 12/12 units.

the hippos won with 5 left over

Full weapon and armor upgrades?

[Cheapo5020]

Neither gargs nor hippos are the best. Fiends are the best, because their piercing type attack makes them do double damage to flyers (except hippos, in which they do 1.5 times the damage). In addition, the fiends make it so the air units cant move and so other ground units can attack them. And, fiends armor makes most air to ground attacks (except griffins and frost wyrms) do only 70% damage to the fiends.

[Exedore]

Neither gargs nor hippos are the best. Fiends are the best...

Only in theorycraft. Once you have a sizeable number of fiends taking on a sizeable number of air units, the fiends' web AI will completely screw them over. They'll try to web as much as possible and fail at it instead of attacking webbed units. Also, for some reason, they tend to not to target the unit that they just webbed. Additionally, focus fire from air units on fiends will wipe them out in seconds. It's harder to do that to gargoyles or hippogryphs because there are more of them, the move around a lot more, and they can overlap each other to a certain extent.

[Infested_Al]

3/3 upgrades in the test. we tested 12/12 with aura and 12/12 without.

both times the hippos won, in fact, without vamp aura the hippos won by an even larger margin.

and when you think about it, that was just hippo vs garg, in game gargs ai would have them attacking archers, dott etc if you didnt micro them properly :/

[lilexie]

Only in theorycraft. Once you have a sizeable number of fiends taking on a sizeable number of air units, the fiends' web AI will completely screw them over. They'll try to web as much as possible and fail at it instead of attacking webbed units. Also, for some reason, they tend to not to target the unit that they just webbed. Additionally, focus fire from air units on fiends will wipe them out in seconds. It's harder to do that to gargoyles or hippogryphs because there are more of them, the move around a lot more, and they can overlap each other to a certain extent.
yeah well y don't u micro a bit and tell the fiends to attack the ones webbed, or even turn off auto cast web and do it manually...
it mainly depends on what units u r fighting, most time gargs would do cept against bats and dhawks, or when they have an excessive amount of AOE's

[Exedore]

yeah well y don't u micro a bit and tell the fiends to attack the ones webbed, or even turn off auto cast web and do it manually...

It's not the fact that web is auto-cast, it's the fact that Fiends are rather large and collide with each other when trying to get in range to cast web or attack a webbed unit (which can "fall" further away from where they were originally). Adding in more micro is still not enough to prevent enough of the collisions the fiends have. Notice that other ranged units don't have this problem because they're smaller and don't get caught on each other.

[Adovid]

If you can get them, destroyers. The most powerful magic imune unit in the game. Infernals excluded. Most of the more powerful air units do magic damage therefore magic imunity makes them invulnerable. Its always a good idea to mix armies though and since statues and gargs fall right into the tech tree of destroyers it would be dumb not to have a few allong.

[napast]

i don't know...i think that crypt fiends are better,because,they already can web air unit,so they can attack them.Gargs are ruling the sky,but what about the ground units?They are weak for ground unit,and they have very small HP.When Crypt Fiends web air units,they are strong as much as they are for ground units,but all depends on HP and Armor...

[Delta-Psyco]

In my experience the better AA of the two depends on the situation, if your up against NE chims and hippos you want to use fiends and manually web the chims and cut them up, the Gargs have a nasty tendency to retarget to heros/MG when using taunt or any other ground to air attacker. But agianst pure wyverns or heavy air like Wyrms and chims with hippo riders or talons as support as well as gryphon riders you want to use gargs. Against those cheap orc players that use hoards of bats you want both fiends and gargs, you have to use something to chase them around :). If against a NE player using hippogryphs you want to stay out of the air in general, they dont attack ground so they concentrate on air only, no distractions is a very bad thing. I would actually like to see the gargs air to surface attack removed. If not then improved because it hinders more than helps really.

[LW3TFT]

i find that depending on who u play, whether it be night elf human or orc, gargs are more effective. but on the other hand fiends can web it and they have a good attack when fully upgraded to kill the flying units neways. im confused

[RavageR]

Well gargs air to ground attack sucks even when in numbers so gargs are only aa units. On the other hand gargs are reasonably cheap. In my opinion fiends are the best aa unit of undead because they web flying units, so air units are denied their privillige of maneuverability and the hit and run attacks they do. Only frosties,chims and a hanfull of griffs will stay in the heat of battle.Also a webbed unit is a kill if the enemy decides to retreat as it stays behind.

[Exedore]

Well gargs air to ground attack sucks even when in numbers so gargs are only aa units.

Not really. They work great against spellcasters and siege units, and the fact that gargoyles fly makes it easy to get in range of those units.

[Dayoh]

Fiends are good AA due to Web and their attack type.
Web is good because it wabs them so they cant move (but can be dispelled)
also allowing melee units to hit them.
Their Attack is high with no upgrades and they do peircing which is air weakness.

But Gargs hold a very high Attack streanght and they are fast allthough their armour lets them down but Vamp Aura compensates for that.

My opinion i would say Fiends are better AA for team games.
And gargs are good but they have shit attack damage to ground.

[shadow_slayer4]

gargs are way better than fiends or hippos, but gargs dont do so good against if they have aa but vs air they pwn

[Griffonheart]

Well, it depends on the situation. If the enemy also has groud forces, you'll want Fiends. But a strictly light air force is easy prey for gargs. Large quantities of Gargs are effective anti-air, but Fiends have a better chance of survival if the enemy has ground forces.

Personally, I like Crypt Lords more as an all around unit, but I won't argue with anyone who says Gargoyles are effective Anti-Air. Personally, I'd rather have a combo of the two. :D