GSG-9's story...

[GSG-9]

Today I was polishing up a movie map of mine. Fix this and that, improve here and there and so on. However, today was one of the most frustrating thing that has ever happened to me. There was a part where Siege Tanks would roll in and deploy to siege mode. Sounds easy, if the AI wasn't so much unpredictable. There are just so many things that bother it. First of all, the placement of units near the deployment area. Have one too near, and it won't deploy (odd, it should in some cases). Too far, and it still won't deploy! If it's in the right space, it will deploy. The thing is, I need many units around it. Sometime later I managed to pull it off. However, when I start the map from the beggining, it won't deploy! But if I start it from that scene only, it will! (I chopped the map into 'Scene switches' so I could play a specifice scene from the start). Angry I was that I made trial and error a lot of time figuring out what the hell the AI wants. I figured running an AI script would do good. Yes! It deployed! But uh-oh. Three stubborn folks refuse to even budge. Realizing the AI itself *may* have a problem (AI scripts have specific amount of units to have, so that may do something with it). I open them with SCAIEdit, changed the AI scripts back and forth, and still three don't deploy. Finally, tired I was, I remove all the units (every tank deployed) and resorted into a very long detour. I created the units (using recall as a cover up) after the tanks deployed. It costs me about 17 locations to get it, and I was nearing the 255 location limit. Such a sacrifice. With numerous recall, I needed more Arbiters. Here's another problem. Whenever I add Arbiters, those three friendly tanks refused to deploy again. Delete the new Arbiters, and those three deploy. Fortunately, I found later that the current Arbiters were sufficient enough. Finally, starting from scene 1, everything went smoothly. However, I'm not finished with the map yet, and a single addition can screw up everything. It took me a good while before I retired for the day (about three hours for this problem).

I'm sure many experts who're creating new mapping techniques suffer frustrations too, however, in this case, there was nothing but figuring out how the AI works. Fortunately for me, I don't try to discover new techniques (you discover those grid patterns, I apply, hehe).

My point? Artificial Intelligence never sucked more. Just kidding.
Flame me.

[Geno]

Daaaaamn... That had to suck man... Why would we flame you though? I will applaude you more than flame you, because I wouldn't have even tried to do that... I would have called up BST or ZDS and asked what the hell to do :p

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

[GSG-9]

You won't flame me? Oh, well. Hello-oo BattleForums.

[EdvardMunch]

I made a quick test map, and this doesn't look fake at all:

CONDITIONS
- Switch "Deploy Tanks" is set
ACTIONS
- Move "Deploy Tanks" to Terran Siege Tank (Tank Mode) owned by player X at "Tanks Must Deploy In This Big Location"
- Preserve Trigger

CONDITIONS
- Player X brings at least 1 Terran Siege Tanks (Tank Mode) to "Deploy Tanks"
ACTIONS
- Remove 1 Terran Siege Tank (Tank Mode) owned by player X at "Deploy Tanks"
- Create 1 Terran Siege Tank (Siege Mode) owned by player X at "Deploy Tanks"
- Preserve Trigger

And of course, don't forget your hyper trigger. "Deploy Tanks" is a 1x1 location too.

Location centers on tank, removes it, creates a siege mode tank, and moves on until it has hit everyone.

I tried this while the tanks were moving, and as far as I saw, they seemed to suddenly stop and go into siege mode. There wasn't a jump or anything. There are two quibbles one might have. First, that the siege tanks to the left will siege before the ones to the right, which might be noticable to a quick eye with a large amount of siege tanks. There's also the fact that if you have one of them selected, it will deselect when it sieges. Faking the AI is always better than using it. (If you remove FKNG from FAKING you have A I, is it a sign?)

[Doom_Dragoon]

lol, Edvard, you make me laugh. That is a good way to do it though.

[EdvardMunch]

Whaaaaaaaaat? What's wrong with that? I suppose it was a little pointless to list the actual triggers, but I like to be specific! Don't make me scream! I'll scream!

[Doom_Dragoon]

/me is confused to why you are yelling at me... I said it was a good way to do it.

[EdvardMunch]

You said I make you laugh, so, without asking any sort of clarifying question, I assume what I said was unintelligent. I didn't mean to sound like I was yelling at you. Watch out! I just had a poppy seed muffin! I'm dangerous! (I should calm down in a coupla hours, unless I eat another one. Then the combined effects should turn me into a stick of dynamite)

By the by, how are threads in the party vs radicals forum at all related to GSG-9's tale of terror?

[GSG-9]

Thank you, EdvardMunch, for stating such an obvious answer. First of all, I wanted them to deploy regulary, especially since the tanks are moving to the left (for its animation). If I did what you said, tanks will deploy unrealistically, if there is such a word. The tanks' deployment were the focus of the scene, so doing that will make it suck.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Using hyper-triggers, I don't think you'll notice anything.

[GSG-9]

Oh, btw, what tale of terror?

[Battlecruiser]

sorry if this is off topic but I like how you included the scream in your signature. I remember you said you wanted to be an ultralisk because they scream. I just wanted to know how you guys are creating your signatures.

[EdvardMunch]

Attempting to work with the AI is always a tale of terror. And how is my suggestion unrealistic? I made a quick map and, when it was time to deploy, all of the tanks did so, without so much as a slight jump between the removal of the tank mode unit and the creation of the siege mode unit. They all deployed at almost exactly the same time as well.

Or do you mean regularly as in, on a schedule?

I know it is very obvious, but sometimes we miss the obvious. You made no mention of having used this.

BattleCruiser: I used iPhotoPlus4. It's something like a 3 year old paint program that came with my scanner, and I know how to use it well. I've tried PhotoShop and although I know it is better, I don't have the patience to learn it. I snagged all of the paintings off of www.edvard-munch.com and just spliced them together the hard way.

I had to include The Scream, it's what turned me into a Munch fan in the first place!

[Battlecruiser]

ahhh I see. ok

[soulprovider17]

I was just wondering even though you went through all the trouble why didn't you just do a trigger like this

Condition:
player X brings tank to location (X)
player X brings tank to location (Y)
player X brings tank to location (J)
(that is if you wanted just three tanks to do this)
Action:
Remove all tanks(undeployed) at loc X for player X
Create a tank(deployed) at loc X for player X
Remove all tanks(undeployed) at loc Y for player X
Create a tank(deployed) at loc Y for player X
Remove all tanks(undeployed) at loc J for player X
Create a tank(deployed) at loc J for player X

also make it for the one player because it would gltich and make more than one and thats just plain annoying


now assuming you want thetanks to stay thats the trigger for you it basicly replaces the tanks so fast you wonj't even notice(make locations 1x1 so that it will work)
I figure this is quicker and simpler
also if you want unit to surround thetank have them surround the tanks but leave enough space inbetween locations or tanks will be in a different spot or not spawn at all if to many are there
thats my advice I hope you take it into consideration

[GSG-9]

Thank you, EdvardMunch, for stating such an obvious answer. First of all, I wanted them to deploy regulary, especially since the tanks are moving to the left (for its animation). If I did what you said, tanks will deploy unrealistically, if there is such a word. The tanks' deployment were the focus of the scene, so doing that will make it suck.

"Stop quoting me!"
I mean, poking.

Thanks, 'nwayz.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to stalking...