Official Poll #3: The "New" Mothership

[Protogod]

Here's one I'm particularly Interested in; What do you think about the mothership now? Would you prefer it's 1 unit punch-packing, or do you think it's nerfed cloak-field version is better? Do you think it needs a different ability? Scrap it?

As for our last poll, the results were very powerful, and answers varied with every person. I think it will be hard to beat the ideas spawned in that debate, but it's worth a shot!

Massable Units WIN! 13 Votes
Ultralisk units & "other" tied in second (7 votes)
Air Units lagged behind as a lonely last place.

Of course, you can spend all your money on lings and dish out as many damage as an ultra could, but lings woun't hold unt in every situation. Against units with splash damage, they will be the first to fall in large numbers. Even though Zerg are the swarmers, the will need a unit that can survive some pounding and still kick some ass.
The zerg need the ultra to act as a meat-shield so the tiny massing zerglings can tear through the defences while the ultras attract the fire
I myself voted for the ultralisk, because it offers some variety, and that ever-elusive "punch" that the zerg need to break late game armies.
I think the Zerg need a unit that can fight and move unseen like the ghosts, wraiths, and Dark Templars
So what i think is a unit that could burrow and fight and move from under ground so the zerg to can have a stealth attack. some kinda large centipede or worm. by moving underground it can cross cliffs and stuff but not water or open air (like canyons and space). and for a special move allow it to come up under a small biological unit and eat it, gaining some health but leaving it exposed and unburrowed for a moment. This move would be just like the ghosts sniper rifles, the one hit one kill thing. or make the eating move swallow the unit and slowly kill it, changing it into heath for it. this way if its killed before the unit is eaten it can be saved by its allies
I think the zerg need early-game casters to deal with all the AOE these groups are throwing around. Stuff like plague swarm being available at roughly the same time as lurkers are now, to counter the fact that you can get seige tanks at around the same time. If zerg are going to focus more on mass and less on single, powerful units, they need some sort of protection against area-of-effect attacks.

[DarkMirror]

I think thewy nerfed it too much. It should still have an air attack, give the cloaking field back to the Stasis Orb, and give a area-of-effect damage yamato-like effect for black hole. I can live without time shield, but black hole was a cool concept, and could esaily be nerfed.

[Faiien]

imo the mothership is just lacking something i cant quite put my tongue on it but it just seems plain.
Yes, it can cloak units while its stationary now....ok...
Btw i think they should have kept the air attacks, just nerfed it down a lil i mean what kinda of protoss elite ship cant hit air units...which i dont quite understand -_-
planet cracker-umhhh...i gues its alright...dont understand y i wouldnt just get a ht and for those of you that are gonna say "it can hit buildings with the planet cracker too" my response to that is...idc...by the time i get ht up iam pretty sure ill have a sizable force able to destroy as many or even more buildings the the mothership can
but i dont know i gues its fine how it is atm but eh...seems kinda plain to me i wish they would add a new ability


Edit
just read another post and had an idea
pretty sure its not a great one but i guess ideas are good -_-
y not give the ms a stasis ability? but with a little more aoe
i mean it already has the arbiter's cloaking effect so y not its other ability
and btw i think atm, the way they sound stasis orbs are horrible, though i have heard somewhere else that they make for GREAT aa -_- but if all their able to do is slow down units then i say nuthx -_-

[BlackDefiler]

I say they should keep the black hole, but make it a targeted ability. You click one unit which is swallowed by the hole, other units around it within the AoE are slowed down substantially by the gravitic effects. Once the hole closes, these other units would return to their normal speed.

The timebomb can go IMO. It wasn't really more than an extra shield.

Planetcracker looks fine, maybe a bit too much UFO feel there, but it's ok.

It's too expencive to be a support caster, so it will need both ATS and ATA weapons.

Another idea is, take away it's normal weapons, and give it an ability to "drain" the shields of nearby friendly units and convert it to energy for itself (around 3-4 shieldpoints to 1 energy or something like that). It could have the same radius as its mass cloak has now. This would make it even more effective spellcaster, but weak as well if caught off guard (since it would have no normal weapons). This ability should have a cooldown time.

What do you think?

[Faiien]

Another idea is, take away it's normal weapons, and give it an ability to "drain" the shields of nearby friendly units and convert it to energy for itself (around 3-4 shieldpoints to 1 energy or something like that). It could have the same radius as its mass cloak has now.

so now it cant attack ground or air, me no likey, even the arbiter had an attack even though it was pretty weak but hey better than nothing

and draining shield points to gain energy? from what ive heard the protoss in sc2 heal their shields VERY fast. which is part of the reason y the shield battery doesnt exist atm, so it could possibly give the mothership too much power which would make it unbalance, so iam nay

right now the only useful ability i c for the ms is cloaking which is passive
and pc ,which i guess is alright

[IceSkirt]

I think that it should have air attack capabilites and it should also keep the black hole, though have it how BlackDefiler described it.
I dislike the timebomb and planetcracker and I am pleased to hear of the timebombs removal.

[Faiien]

eh timebomb seemed kinda useless to me anyways
ya i think that it should totally hav aa, any protoss lead protoss ship should have aa
and about the bh iam 50/50 on this. if they can find a way to balace it then gratz, but if not then i wont be too sad.

[masterofhobbiton]

I think that the 'ship should be scrapped simply because I don't like it (or the thor) from a backstory point of view.
If it's a dark templar construct than it sort of makes sense, but then why would it be an offensive ship at all? The DT just drifted around the galaxy, secretly upholding the glory of Aiur and partroling their wayward fleets of transports with small, fast, fighters. A mothership doesn't really fit into that theme, you would think that now that Aiur is ruined and the protoss fleets broken and the whole race homeless, they would all end up drifting like the DT and need more corsair-like stuff, not giant motherships.
If it's a khalai 'toss construct, then it doesn't make sense either. Since all of the khalai manufacturing plants and stuff are out of commision for SC2 (no more dragoons :( ) the things they would use would be upgraded revived versions of weapons and vessals and things they had before the events of SC1, like the Colossi from the Aeon of Strife. Since that battle was not inter-planetary and was purely between tribes who lived on the same planet and stuff, the building of enormous motherships would be very impractical. After the wars ended the khalai protoss dedicated themselves to safeguarding lesser races under the responsability of Dae'Uhl. They patrolled their Empire in their fleets of powerful ships while the Conclave ruled from the surface of Aiur. When the zerg threaten a lesser race, the terrans, they send off Tassadar with a fleet and his carriers melt some planets. No space or need for a mothership in there either.

So, I hate the mothership because it's a stupid thing to have backstory-wise. Time bomb was super-cool though, imagine watching hydralisk mucous and needle-spines slowing down and down, making a big cloud of green spit... And you could zoom and pan the camara... :P

[Kawagata]

Honestly what kind of mothership has no anti air? Did they float through space battles? To cloak not existant ground troops? Hell no! If they're going to make a mothership do it right. Change back into a one unit wonder or scrap it. Jump over the cliff to the other side or stay. Don't do something in the middle.
Black hole is a bit unfair though. Imagine losing a whole fleet of bc to that. Timebomb should be doable to some rate of dodging the projectiles so it requires a slight micro touch.If it totally stops the projectiles, it defies logic. Energy does not suddenly disappear. Understanding blizzard, they said slows down projectiles by slowing down time. It should move slower and resume speed after the field comes to an end.

[Faiien]

its pretty much even at the moment on the poll

some of us think that the mothership should be scrapped
heres my opinion on the subject of that
i dont think it should be scrapped just fixed. its a new concept to the world of sc2. The protoss ms is unlike the "hero" units in warcraft because you dont have to depend on the ms to win a game and it just seems to be a pretty nifty concept that will diverse the protoss from the other 2 races

some of us think that its fine at the moment
i think it isnt! now keep in mind these are just my thoughts and opinions. it doesnt necessarily mean that iam wrong or right. but Seriously, what kind of lead protoss ship DOESNT have aa, some of the people above share the same thoughts on this subject. The protoss mothership should definitely be fixed because atm it just doesnt seem to be fully performing its role, which is a strong protoss unit that can fend for itself against some basic units. Now if i throw in one air unit the mothership is screwed. Theres no way for the mothership to fight against it and iam forced to retreat -_-

now back on the topic of making it a one hit wonder...
Iam totally and COmPleTeLy opposed to this idea. it would make the mothership SOOO similar to the warcraft heroes. I think its a horrible idea to give the mothership too much power that players start depending on it and they must have it every game. making the mothership a strong unit but not too powerful will give it a balance on the grand scale of sc2. It will stray away from the warcraft heroes and stay close to the concept of sc2. I think that it would be horrible to make the mothership a one unit wonder. i think getting rid of bh was the right thing to do.
did it look cool? yes
is it an innovative ability? yes
does it just scream imba from the heart of its lungs? yes
i dont really care if bh comes back or not. but if it does i think its gonna be drastically nerfed. from only having a limited amount it can suck into the hole or having a small aoe

and i have nothing to say on the topic of adding a new ability just that i agree with it
/end rant

[pytum]

yeah, well i voted for the superunit option but... i dont want only a single mothership. To balance the fact of taking out the "super unit", it could need 8 to 10 of food. I like the planet cracker(similar to plasma torpedo of the battlecruiser) and... the time bomb... well, i was excited when i saw it, but, since they cut it off it dont affect me as the fact that the black hole was scratch!!!! that could be my favorite spell, i cannot believe that blizz cut it off, i liked it and i want it back(the black hole)

and yeah i want it to be able to attack aerial units

a few changes to the black hole that blizz could do:

- less Aoe

-when used, drains the shields of the mothership (like mind control)

-or, use all its energy

[Skullflower]

The mothership got nerfed way too fucking much. Give it's AA attack back and make the black hole somewhat less effective than what it was. And timebomb was a neat concept, besides i like how the missiles fall after the timebomb shield dissapears. Planet cracker is pretty cool, and I guess they should keep the cloaking field on the Mothership because I have no clue what unit they would give the cloaking field to instead.

[TitanWing]

Time bomb has been nerfed to ground-only and similar to the Protoss version of the dark swarm. I like the concept...though it seems a bit stolen from the Zerg.

[reddbeta]

im ok as long as the mother ship is in the game. i think a cool thing whould be if it transport both land and air units, more than any other transport and mabye healing/ repairing units as it goes.

as for the time bomb....i love that move but i don't think the mother ship should have it, i think it should be a spell performed by a group of templars ( the more you have the longer it lasts and it slowly drains the group until they hit zero energy and maybe shields and or die) that way there be a good defenceive spell

[TitanWing]

Time bomb is created by technology, not pure psionic power. Wouldn't fit the HT, fits the Mship fine.

[reddbeta]

well i was think of it more as raw psychic power instead, i guess i needs a name change for that purpose.

[TitanWing]

Mentally changing the flow of time without technological aid? That's a bit much...even for the Protoss.

[reddbeta]

i was think of more of a sheild that whould block large projectiles from hitting, possible away to prevent a nuke from falling? its more just stoping them from hitting

[TitanWing]

Oh my God! I'd never thought of that!

Would Protoss be able to stop a nuke with a Time Bomb?

[Protogod]

Oh my God! I'd never thought of that!

Would Protoss be able to stop a nuke with a Time Bomb?

theoretically, the physics of it would imply that nukes could be slowed down.

[TitanWing]

Yes, but remember those missiles from the first GP video? They stopped completely and were disarmed on the ground. Same thing happen to a nuke?

[SilverCrusader]

Yep, they can be stopped.

[Zeltaris]

That would be interesting to see, nuke just slowing down and then going ca-klunk on the ground. Pretty irritating for the terran, though.

I've never been a fan of the mothership personally. It doesn't really have that "feel" of other protoss units in its design, so it kind of sticks out awkwardly out of an air fleet, like in the gameplay video. Plus, the whole super-advanced-aliens with motherships idea is way too cliché already.
I'd say scrap it, although, with a few adjustments it might be a nice addition to the protoss. Taking AA away is too much, IMO. I mean, its a great big clumsy ship with a slow attack, so it's vulnerable enough to fighters already.
Taking the blackhole away was fine too.

1 hit k.o's should be for single units only.

[TitanWing]

Plus, the whole super-advanced-aliens with motherships idea is way too cliché already.
Like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Day_%28film%29)?

[apostolos]

The M-ship should be the powerful ship we saw at WWI.

[pytum]

The M-ship should be the powerful ship we saw at WWI.

of holy course... like i said:

8-10 food, come back black hole(but nerfed) and aerial attacks

[Kellanved]

I voted for a scrapping. The reason:
First, I never liked it when I saw it in the original gameplay vid. I knew black hole was way too cheap and that it would be nerfed (in fact even if it took out only one unit it would still be too cheap since you can take out a carrier/bc). Also I never liked the idea of a one-only unit. It's not that it would be too cheap (it probably wouldn't be, and it'd be one of those things you almost never get; the heroes in wc were another story because they were a value that was way greater for its cost than any other unit which probably wouldn't be the case with the MS) and the idea of having a single unit that can wreack havoc and survive is kind of silly since the enemy may have thrown a lot at it, lost it all, while the MS owner lost nothing.

Then they turned it into another arbiter, but with planet cracker instead of recall/stasis. First off, I really don't care if they take away its AA... or its entire attack for that matter (I think the original MS shouldn't have had an attack) since the arbiter's attack was next to useless anyways (explosive, half a goon's damage, probably about doulbe a goon's cooldown). Besides, there shouldn't be a single unit that is the uber-unit for being all-purpose, otherwise what's the point of getting anything else?

Now the whole term 'Mother Ship' just doesn't fit something you can have more than one of.

I think they should take it out and put in another ship to rethink the entire concept. I know they don't want to be redundant, so they shouldn't have to make it the 'arbiter' or similar-looking in particular. But making it have a mobile cloaking field is kind of redundant. I liked the more innovative thing they were gonna do with the star relic, and they can try that again. Just no damned Mothership.

[DarkMirror]

Keep the mothership. Just make it cooler.

[BlackDefiler]

if it took out only one unit it would still be too cheap since you can take out a carrier/bc

Mind control did the exact same, but not only did he lose it, but you also gained it. Compared to that, the black hole isn't that cheap.

[Protogod]

Wow, this thread became one sided fast. Yesterday it was like 5-4-4-3 now its 11-4-4-4, lol.

Anyway, I am simply disappointed that it has no AA. I mean, if its that high tech a unit, and its that expensive, and its a "mother ship" it should be able to fend off one muta, ya know?

I like the cloaking field, and planet cracker is deece ( guess.) But w/e. All the abilities were cool in their own right, although altogether they were kinda unnecessary in 1 unit.

[Ktan]

Mind control did the exact same, but not only did he lose it, but you also gained it. Compared to that, the black hole isn't that cheap.


But MC would very easily be associated with said Archon dying, due to the loss of shield unless you were very nifty with it. One unit at a time wouldn't make a major difference anyway, and I'm sure when Maelstrom would be a much better use of the energy. Why apply it to only one unit when you could apply chaos more effectively over a wider area? Unless the said unit is wtfpwn, it's kinda redundant. More like a party trick, than a full on tactical application.

[BlackDefiler]

I'm not sure which Black Hole are you talking about? The first type, which sucked in everything in an area, or the idea I wrote in this thread earlier?

[TitanWing]

If the Mship is gonna be a superunit again, then let's increase the supply required to 20...not 10.

Funny. Everyone hated the superunit (except for the noobs) and when we get a nerf...we all want it back? wtf?

[Protogod]

Funny. Everyone hated the superunit (except for the noobs) and when we get a nerf...we all want it back? wtf?

You don't know what you had until you lost it. With all the secrecy, we had no idea how it would fit in, but now having seen alot of the other stuff, it just doesn't make as must sense NOT to go with the original idea.

[BlackDefiler]

Funny. Everyone hated the superunit (except for the noobs) and when we get a nerf...we all want it back? wtf?

I can already see TitanWing crying over the Thor being removed :P


I don't really want the MotherShip, I just want the Black Hole back *sniff*
It was sooo cool *sniff*... *runs out of room*

[Kellanved]

Well I never liked the MS and I still don't. I want it scrapped, and for Blizzard to think of a better concept as their 'rare caster' ship. Just the term itself: 'Mothership' implies that there's only one, and making it multiple build makes it silly. But then I always thought the only-one build is silly too, which is why I voted for the scrap.

[TitanWing]

I can already see TitanWing crying over the Thor being removed :P
Haha! +rep

Won't happen though. I disliked the Mship, I HATE the Thor.;)

[Kawagata]

Anyone like to fly through space in a slow-ass ship who can only shoot at the ground??

[TitanWing]

That's Blizzard genius right there. I'd give it an air attack, but keep it significantly nerfed as it is.

[3Vee]

Never liked the M'ship. I still stand by my old balance argument: it's going to be a pain in the ass to keep it from being either overpowered or wimpy. This may be overstatement, but I suspect many other "balance" patches (let's be serious, it won't be perfec out of the box) will affect M'Ship too. I mean, say they need to balance the Viking, then you get a whole slew of issues. Oh, and the whole concept was a little too cheesy and un-SC-like.

But I could live with a superunit Mothership. If they want multiple M'ships, they need to rename it. ;)

[pytum]

remember that blizz doesnt want to remake starcraft in 3d, blizz want it to reinvent it :]

i dislike the new mothership, i want the older one, for the reasons that i have already mentioned

[Kawagata]

Blackhole is incredibly cheap. It's basically a storm which kills any air. Planet Crusher should stay as it fits the descripition of the world burning device and it has the mship stay loyal to ID4. It's ability should be nerfed but stripping it of it's anti-air is ludicrious and incredibly stupid.

[Borgorb]

i cant vote on this the options say what i want and then contradict it
too confusing

i want the mothership with planet cracker, cloaking field and air to air capabilities

[TitanWing]

Black hole had realism problems...part of the reason they removed it I think.

A black hole that doesn't affect the Mship but sucks any ENEMY air units into it and doesn't have any effect on ground?

[Skullflower]

Well, you have to take into account that its a computer game.

[Kawagata]

well you have more friction with the ground i guess? So you'd stick to it easier.Timebomb had realism issues also. Slowing something down through time. First everything inside the bubble is slowed down but it isn't really "slowed down". The missle would move slow but still have it's propulsion and momentum. So it'd be just as hard to move. As soon as it exits that field it should move the same as it would if the field didn't exist.

[Protogod]

well you have more friction with the ground i guess? So you'd stick to it easier.

...It's a black hole...It "spaghettifies" anything within it's reach.

So, err, no, realistically the whole planet would be sucked in if it was a black hole, not to mention further possibilities.

[Ktan]

A black hole as small as that could equally evaporate in microseconds before it did anything.

Thus, Skullflower's 'It's just a game' ethic is probably wisest.

[Kellanved]

Yeah, plus Blizzard doesn't really know all that much about science. If you think about it, they are pretty much noobs in the sci-fi scene since Starcraft was really the only sci-fi game they ever made, and all their other work is 'sword & sorcery' fantasy.

[Basan]

Aww, heck. They could rename it to Psionic (Time) Hole thus solving the whole physics ordeal. Place a maximum number of units it could suck in and the problem's solved. :P
That's why it's properly called nerfing. They could go around it's spells and make'em less powerful and therefore solving the imba' claims.

Btw, I preferred the way it used to be than what am hearing it currently is. They simply broke the thing. *Sigh*

[pytum]

well, in fact it is science indeed, but with fiction :]

[Ktan]

Yeah, plus Blizzard doesn't really know all that much about science. If you think about it, they are pretty much noobs in the sci-fi scene

So's almost every other Sci-Fi writer, director or game developer. You just have to accept it and move on. Even Star Trek which has had the greatest influence out of all these fictional universes unzips its flies to whizz on the laws of physics ever other episode to get out of tricky problems.

Alternatively you could pull a Gundam, and say it's an alternate universe set of physics.

[TitanWing]

Star Wars is actually not that far-fetched in some areas...plasma solves a lot of problems.

Warp speed and stuff isn't possible using known methods of propulsion, however.

Anyways, can we have a new poll?

[Protogod]

Star Wars is actually not that far-fetched in some areas...plasma solves a lot of problems.

Warp speed and stuff isn't possible using known methods of propulsion, however. I see you saw the same history channel special that I did. ;)

Anyways, can we have a new poll?

There's your sign. New Poll forthcoming.

[Ktan]

The currently accepted convention is that Warp doesn't 'fold space' but actually warps the space around it. It creates a massive 'pocket' of expanded space behind while shrinking the space in front. In this way, like something under pressure, the ship is accelerated towards the region of lower space-time 'pressure'.

But no, we don't know how, or even if we CAN.

On topic: Proto will change the poll when he feels like it ;)

Bugger beat me to it...

[TitanWing]

I see you saw the same history channel special that I did. ;)
Lawl, "Star Wars Tech" last night.:rolleyes:

[Protogod]

Lawl, "Star Wars Tech" last night.

Who called it. GGNORE.

Locked & results soon.