Official Poll #2: What New Unit do Zerg Need?

[Protogod]

Again, self-explanatory. With new collosi and banshees running about, what type of unit do the zerg need?

And here are the results from our last poll:

Pro-Reaver wins: 20-3-4-4
The reaver is completely different then the colossi and they both totally perform a different role. I'd like to think that the reavers are more like cannons and colossi are more like Gigantic skyscraper tall robots with lazers .The reavers could be transported in ships; colossi cannot, reavers do splash damage;colossi just kinda scan the area with their lazers
Reavers were also the artillery for toss. They had a longer range then defencive buildings. The Colossus clearly does not fulfill this role. I't s a good Zergling killer, but when it comes to razing buildings fast it just can't cut it against the Reaver.
I think that Reavers played the artillery role for the 'Tossies and also the equivalent of a Tank drop (with some scans). The Colossi seem more fitting to the anti-infantry/cliff harassment role and both don't exactly overlap
The reaver was great fun because of the popping and fast killing capabilities. It was one of my favourite units.

The colossus also looks great, but for different practical purposes, like shooting from behind the cliff, or being able to quickly dispatch 1 or 2 to take out an expansion aside from the main event.


NO! Both Reavers and Colossi with all the other monstrosities the Protoss have would make things.... IMBALANCED.

The reaver did annoy me though because of the baby sitting they needed, and the annoying way sometimes the scarabs would go off and get stuck and/or the fact that it cost minerals for each scarab.

However, the colossus doesn't seem to fit the bill imo -- the reavers point was fast and sudden damage, and the col seems to be... I don't know. Slower. Would it not make sense to simply micro your units away from the damn thing, thus preventing any serious losses?

... toss seems lacking without a reaver. I mean cmon, reavers!


A Colossus is infinitely more useful than the Reaver was against infantry, certainly, but it simply doesn't have the building-leveling firepower that a Reaver possesses. Not to mention that Reavers can fit in transports, and Colossi can not (a definite problem on island maps).

How are the Protoss going to assault a fortified base without a proper siege unit? Even with combined arms, they will have a difficult go of it from the ground, and the skies do not look particularly friendly even with the glut of capital ships the Protoss have at their disposal.

Either the Reaver needs to be re-admitted, or a new Protoss siege unit needs to be designed. And the Colossus, for all its usefulness and novelty, is not it.

you see, the thing about reavers is that they weren't originally designed to be fighting, so they were effective in battle, but more or else old machinery fitted for a different purpose. The collosi on the other hand is the first fully AI unit that is meant to be on the front lines fighting.
They are making units that aren't just good for gameplay, but also fit along with the story. Why shouldn't the protoss have adapted and made a robot that is meant to battle? (Collosi) would be also excellent guards for your base because if anyone drops you the collosi can step over your own units and quickly dispose of the intruders

[Faiien]

well imho i think that the ultralisk were a great unit for the zerg. it was the heavy land hitter for the zergs and all in all just a great addition to the zerg arsenal
however!
even though i think the ultras were a great unit i think that the zerg should have more massable units. i mean seriously i think any great zerg player would recommended guardians vs ultralisks for their range and the fact that they are air(easier to maneuver than those big chunky ultralisks )
so i wouldnt be too sad if the ultralisks were to get cut i like the idea of more massable units. it was always the main theme of the z army. to overwhelm your opponent and just send him in a state of chaos with your 200 unit strong army XD

[SilverCrusader]

I'm undecided, I think I'll wait to see what the rest of the Zerg section has first.

[firedraco]

I say more massables, because Zerg are there to balance out the Protoss's heavy hitters.

[Faiien]

i have a question y is it that atm massables has 2 votes but the bar shows that it has 0 -_- or is that just meh

[sdbolts11]

Ugh. Well, what Zerg players need is something to balance all the stuff Protoss and Terran has. Just how it will work :D. In any sense, I hope the Defiler/equivalent stays and Ultra/equivalent as well. They are very vital to late game. The Zerg should stay strong anti-air, but maybe add in another good attack unit.

[FyrDemon]

I think that the Zerg need a unit like the Ultralisk but should be more versatile.

They should get some kind of hybrid Ultralisk/Hydralisk with like the Kaiser Blades (for melee) and Spines (for Air Units only) but an obviously weaker version of them because a hybrid Ultra/Hydra with the combined attk/def/hp/movement and other upgrades and capabilities would make them the godliest Zerg ever (unfair? yes, quite ;))

[Protogod]

i have a question y is it that atm massables has 2 votes but the bar shows that it has 0 -_- or is that just meh

The poll system is glitched, and has been for some time. Go by numbers, not bars.

[FyrDemon]

Another reason why I consider my idea to give for a good Zerg Unit is because the Zerg as most if not all SC players know, cannot tank any damage worth their lives (pun intended :)) except for the Ultralisk mainly. A Hybrid Zerg could pose as another tanker for the Zerg defenses.

[sdbolts11]

Something I noticed in GP and screenies are that Tanks are much much much more powerful against small units. In the Terran GP at Blizzcon, when the mass marines were coming, the tanks were killing 2 and 3 with each shot. In SC, you needed full tank attack upgrades to kill one marine. In screenshots on IGN and stuff, a whole mass of blood comes out where a tank struck in a link mass. This make lings less effective against Terran defenses with tanks and possibly other splash units.

Anyways, there could possibly be another Ranged ground unit for the Zerg besides simply the Hydralisk.

[Protogod]

Yeah, the siege tank has become more of an anti-mass unit, instead of it's power punching counterpart.

It makes sense tho, given that immos have shields now. It would be useless otherwise, except for killing usnks/photons/

[sdbolts11]

I'm sure the Immortals are better against something other than Tanks, Photons and Sunks. They're pretty much SC goons but good against tanks rather than being massacred. So they would fulfill their superiority over the units the Goon did, don't you think so?

[Protogod]

I'm sure the Immortals are better against something other than Tanks, Photons and Sunks. They're pretty much SC goons but good against tanks rather than being massacred. So they would fulfill their superiority over the units the Goon did, don't you think so?

I was talking about tanks > sunks and cannons.

Way to go, dippy.

[sdbolts11]

Okay, okay sorry. You said "Immos" then you used a pronoun, which correctly would point to Immos, not tanks in the whole previous paragraphs :/

Anyways, you are right. However, the tank will still be a powerful support unit. It wasn't like SC1 tank was only good against Goons, Sunks, and Cannons anyways..

[Protogod]

Okay, okay sorry. You said "Immos" then you used a pronoun, which correctly would point to Immos, not tanks in the whole previous paragraphs

Are you done now?

[Faiien]

um i have no idea what sdbolts has been saying...if someone would be so kind to translate...from what i gathered is he saying that tanks are good for destroying base defenses and units too? -_- i cant tell

as for hydra/ultralisk hybrids i think we should stick to the topic at hand and not invent any units in this thread

another reason y i think that the ultralisks arnt really needed for the zerg army is because of its speed before its upgraded -_- usually even when people do decide to go for ultras they dont use the speed upgrade. its just a waste of money and time because if your going for ultras your already pretty confident your taking the game. also ill make a scenario

if you were to create a handful of ultras and i was to create lings using the exact amount of minerals, who would win? my bets are on the lings simply because they outnumber the ultras and by the time the ultras kill about 10 to 15 lings theyll have to deal with all the other lings that are rapidly surrounding them and pounding them(add hydras or lurkers to that situation and its even more of a slaughter). So once again imo even though the ultras are great units overall they arnt essential to the z arsenal

[FyrDemon]

Yeah, Zlings would definitely outnumber and kill Ultras and have some (Zlings) left over to do it again maybe.

The Ultra/Hydra hybrid was just an idea, and you could make em with Arsenal III or DatEdit or whatever else is good. I would use them, but i dont know how they work.

[Faiien]

lol my point exactly
yes we like the ultras
but are they really needed?
people have been saying "we need ultras for tanks and heavy massing" my answer to that is guards and lings -_-

[Protogod]

well, the thing is, ultras are what? 200 minerals? thats 8 lings, which an ultra can easily beat. It's the gas cost that makes ultras expensive.

Also, account for ultralisk armor (upgraded armor even more.)

at like +7 armor, ultras take nearly 0 damage from lings, and dish out a killing blow in 2 shots at least.

[Faiien]

add ling upgrades in that equation.
and as i said above you could add a couple of hydras or lurks to that with the lings using the same amount of resources and iam still confident that the ultras will get trashed

[FyrDemon]

All in all, a fully upgraded Ultralisk vs what did u say? 8? fully upgraded Zerglings, Ultralisk gonna win.

But a non up'd Ultra vs 8 non up'd Zerglings, the Zerglings would probably win.

[Protogod]

add ling upgrades in that equation.
I did. Cracklings make them attack more often, not with more power. Meaning they do the same ~0 damage over and over.

Even with full ups, thats, what? 7-8 damage?

that means they do 1 damage or less, at full strength.

[apostolos]

more massable units.That's the zerg idea.Their strength is in numbers

[DarkGunner]

im just guessing but the zerg might get a new massable ranged unit, as they only have the hydra right now

[BlackDefiler]

Of course, you can spend all your money on lings and dish out as many damage as an ultra could, but lings woun't hold unt in every situation. Against units with splash damage, they will be the first to fall in large numbers. Even though Zerg are the swarmers, the will need a unit that can survive some pounding and still kick some ass.

Other thing is, with both the terran and protoss getting some heavy air to surface weapons (Banshee, BC, Carrier, Warpray) Some very heavy anti-air would be needed for Z. Eighter they should buff up the scourge with more hp and speed, or get a ground based mobile AA.

[sdbolts11]

The Zerg already have had heavy anti-air. Try Devourer/Muta/Scourge on for size. Pick apart capital fleets like sheet metal, well not exactly, but Zerg is well stocked for aerial attacks.

[vIsitor]

bolts is actually right (for once).

Of course, other than the Mutalisk, we don't actually know what the Zerg still have at their disposal.

[Borgorb]

The zerg need the ultra to act as a meat-shield so the tiny massing zerglings can tear through the defences while the ultras attract the fire

a new ultra would be nice
more hp is wat im geting at not nessecerily more dammage

that and the fact ultras cut through infantry like a hot knife through butter
WHO WANT RINES 4 BREAKFAST???

[ZeratulStukov]

i say we should have both ultras and something new

[InfestedFirman]

i voted other

a more powerful version of the ultralisk called the hyperlisk would do

or maybe a super unit like the protoss called the destroyer


things come into my mind

[DarkMirror]

No other race gets a super unit.

[Faiien]

no people, lets not create units in this thread -_- plz...keep it factual

ok so your arguments have been stated, you say that lings cant face against ultras but i was only using that as an example. replace the lings with hydras or lurks or even if you say ultras can beat those then i would suggest the guard. the guard and the ultra are on the same tech tier and they both do 20 damage b4 upgrades. yet the guards are air which makes them superior to ultras. so i ask you. y waste your time getting ultras when you could get guards?

[DarkMirror]

Why the hell shouldn't we make new units? The title is "What new unit do the Zerg need?" That has "New" in it.

[BlackDefiler]

Cause the only air units that can really wound the ultra are the capital ships (BC, Carrier (and now the warpray and banshee)) But the guards are owned by any air units that can attack air.

[Faiien]

Why the hell shouldn't we make new units? The title is "What new unit do the Zerg need?" That has "New" in it.

because then imo the thread starts getting retarded. people start making up creatures like the HYPERLISK and start talking about all the great things it would be able to do. if you want to go make up units for sc2 start making your own thread. Iam not saying its a bad idea or good idea but i dont think it has any relations to this thread. and btw the title of the thread isnt "What new units do the zerg need" its "What Kind of Unit do the Zerg Need?" as in more massable units, more heavy hitters, more air. get your facts right:bonk:

bot
i think that the zerg need to have another unit for anti air. Something cheap like the scourge (which i hope is staying) because its just the kind of units that the zerg need. more cheap massable stuff.

[Protogod]

because then imo the thread starts getting retarded. people start making up creatures like the HYPERLISK and start talking about all the great things it would be able to do. if you want to go make up units for sc2 start making your own thread.

I'll settle this right here and now- There is an "other" category for a reason, to allow new ideas to slip through. You needn't worry about that.

People are entitled to their opinions, of course. However, if an idea is purely stupid of course I will intervene, that's why I'm here. So don't even worry about it.

I happen to think hyperlisk/destroyer was a poor idea, but it wasn't as bad as some we've had (ex: "zomg we need a death star like starwars. *coughsdboltscough)"

Back on topic, I myself voted for the ultralisk, because it offers some variety, and that ever-elusive "punch" that the zerg need to break late game armies.

[DarkMirror]

Thank you proto. Sorry I made the above post. I had an idea for a large, beetlelike creature with both a ranged and melee attack. Sort of based off of the bombardier beetle.

[Protogod]

Thank you proto. Sorry I made the above post. I had an idea for a large, beetlelike creature with both a ranged and melee attack. Sort of based off of the bombardier beetle.
From Starship Troopers? kekekekeke

[DarkMirror]

Yeah.

[Protogod]

Well I actually think that would be a good idea for the zerg. Perhaps a replacement/upgrade for the ultralisk. A powerful ranged unit would help alot.

The only thing is that zerg really arent siege-style armies. They'd have to be nerfed a bit, making it almost not worth the upgrade/trade-off. It's so hard to draw the line with zerg, because everything has a use with them, its ust that some cool ideas don't fit in the grand scheme of things.

[reddbeta]

I think the Zerg need a unit that can fight and move unseen like the ghosts, wraiths, and Dark Templars
So what i think is a unit that could burrow and fight and move from under ground so the zerg to can have a stealth attack. some kinda large centipede or worm. by moving underground it can cross cliffs and stuff but not water or open air (like canyons and space). and for a special move allow it to come up under a small biological unit and eat it, gaining some health but leaving it exposed and unburrowed for a moment. This move would be just like the ghosts sniper rifles, the one hit one kill thing. or make the eating move swallow the unit and slowly kill it, changing it into heath for it. this way if its killed before the unit is eaten it can be saved by its allies

[Faiien]

ts ust that some cool ideas don't fit in the grand scheme of things.
/agreed

A powerful ranged unit would help alot.
guardians? lol

guardians are a must for late game for me if i ever play z unless the enemy just happens to have aa. then its hydras with defs. i try not to go ultras because of my organization. in late games all my stuff is usally all over the place and it can be Extremely difficult to get my ultras out of there. mayb they can have a reamped version of the ultra with less beef XD

think the Zerg need a unit that can fight and move unseen like the ghosts, wraiths, and Dark Templars
So what i think is a unit that could burrow and fight and move from under ground so the zerg to can have a stealth attack.
have you ever played sc? what your basically describing is a lurker that can move underground and can turn invisible -_-
and the rest of your descriptions on the eating of the units and stuff...i dont even wanna say anything lol ill leave it to proto

[FyrDemon]

I think the Zerg need a unit that can fight and move unseen like the ghosts, wraiths, and Dark Templars

they do have infested Kerrigan btw

[reddbeta]

have you ever played sc? what your basically describing is a lurker that can move underground and can turn invisible -_-
and the rest of your descriptions on the eating of the units and stuff...i dont even wanna say anything lol ill leave it to proto
i see the lurker is more of a trap/defense unit, its not really that usable in head on attack as it can be easily killed before its burrower. and the idea to for eating a unit came from an ncp dragon from War craft III (i cant remember the name)

they do have infested Kerrigan btw
well and Duran too.. but i was more focused on base units

[FyrDemon]

I dont know tho, zerg race isnt meant for stealth.... Its meant for fast reproduction-pelt-em-with what ya got fast kinda strategy

[Protogod]

guardians are a must for late game for me if i ever play z
err, I pretty much never see guardians...ever...
i see the lurker is more of a trap/defense unit, its not really that usable in head on attack as it can be easily killed before its burrower.
Well then it's a shame you're wrong. Lurkers are definitely an offensive unit, you just have to use micro.

Btw: Welcome to warboards.

[reddbeta]

I dont know tho, zerg race isnt meant for stealth.... Its meant for fast reproduction-pelt-em-with what ya got fast kinda strategy
well i was just thinking that the protoss and Terrans have stealth units that can move and attack but all the zerg can do is wait and pop up. it be would be different it stealth was a protoss or terran only trait.

[Protogod]

Blizzard is trying to diversify each race. This means some racis will have things other races dont, and some races will lack things the other races have.

I don't wanna play sc2 if everything is the same for all 3 races.

[Faiien]

err, I pretty much never see guardians...ever...

if i play z i usually go for the lings to muta harass then take it from there and if it becomes late game i get some guards up with some hydras

don't wanna play sc2 if everything is the same for all 3 races.
me either

[Anoiktos]

I think the zerg need early-game casters to deal with all the AOE these groups are throwing around. Stuff like plague swarm being available at roughly the same time as lurkers are now, to counter the fact that you can get seige tanks at around the same time. If zerg are going to focus more on mass and less on single, powerful units, they need some sort of protection against area-of-effect attacks.

[Protogod]

if i play z i usually go for the lings to muta harass then take it from there and if it becomes late game i get some guards up with some hydras

That seems like a kinda weird build, especially since muta harass can be easily countered if you do it every time.

[reddbeta]

I don't wanna play sc2 if everything is the same for all 3 races.
i completely agree
but i don't see it as a scale tipping unit its just to make things more interesting. i got the idea from watching Tremors they just scream zerg to me

[Protogod]

I think the zerg need early-game casters to deal with all the AOE these groups are throwing around. Stuff like plague swarm being available at roughly the same time as lurkers are now, to counter the fact that you can get seige tanks at around the same time. If zerg are going to focus more on mass and less on single, powerful units, they need some sort of protection against area-of-effect attacks.
Valid point.

Although, you must understand: it's all a balancing act, giving each race a chance to take the lead.early game it's somewhat balanced 50/50, then lurks come out and z pwns that much more, but then T scans&tanks which then wtfpwns z, who can then go ultra or defiler, which T goes sci vessel.

its all about the give and take, so to make them that much stronger at the beginning would be rather ugly, I think.

[reddbeta]

besides it seems that the other races have modified there units to address flaws they in the past versions. maybe the zerg would gain a stealth attack unit?

[Protogod]

besides it seems that the other races have modified there units to address flaws they in the past versions. maybe the zerg would gain a stealth attack unit?
Let it go dude...let it go...

[reddbeta]

fine... fine... since my idea has been utterly killed id have to go with keeping the Ultralisks and add another mass unit, even better if it hatchs 2 from one egg for a fast army build

[Faiien]

That seems like a kinda weird build, especially since muta harass can be easily countered if you do it every time.

i dont do it everytime but its a good way to keep the enemy in his base
it forces him to go back and constantly defend his drones/probes/scvs and by the time he gets 1 or 2 turrets up(or cannons) ill have more than enough mutas to take care of that
of course this demands a decent lvl of micro
at least to know when to pull back and when to come forward
and theres always a hazard of aa so you gotta watch out for that
and while hes distracted by the mutas i take expos and start building up ^^
but as you can see with this build i can slowly build it to guards instead of going ultras

[sdbolts11]

So how well does your Guardians for Ultralisks strategy work?

[Faiien]

very well, but as i said its a very key factor that you scout often to check if they enemy is going for aa. if they are i switch to hydras asap with hyras at the lead and guards behind i feel almost unstoppable but with hydras/ultras its really hard to get the ultras where i want them when i have so many hydras XD might be my sukage at controlling the unit movement or it might be because those ultras ARE HUGEGANTIC

[DarkGunner]

Maybe the zerg could use another spell caster? seeing as the terran and prottoss both have more

[sdbolts11]

very well, but as i said its a very key factor that you scout often to check if they enemy is going for aa. if they are i switch to hydras asap with hyras at the lead and guards behind i feel almost unstoppable but with hydras/ultras its really hard to get the ultras where i want them when i have so many hydras XD might be my sukage at controlling the unit movement or it might be because those ultras ARE HUGEGANTIC
Umm... do you play fastest maps or something? Or does your opponent let you expo the whole map? Your armies seem really really expensive, both hydra/ultra and hydra/lurker. Also, what MU(s) would this be? Just ZvP?

[pytum]

maybe some kind of an insect... a roach?? yay! maybe a beetle that throw corrosive acids to aerial units

[Faiien]

Umm... do you play fastest maps or something? Or does your opponent let you expo the whole map? Your armies seem really really expensive, both hydra/ultra and hydra/lurker. Also, what MU(s) would this be? Just ZvP?
1.do you play fastest maps
no
2.Does your opponent let you expo the whole map
no, but i do expo 2 to 3 times
3.Your armies seem really really expensive, both hydra/ultra and hydra/lurker.
No! your reading it all wrong. YOU MAKE THE SWITCH from unit to the other you dont constantly build one unit then get another and another. And i said that i wouldnt go ultras i was just using that as a scenario i would rather use guards
Hydra/Lurker
i dont even know where you got that from. i said i would use mutas and gets some hydras if the enemy decided to go aa
i dont know wtf your getting your info but it would be better if you quoted me and then asked the question

[reddbeta]

well i had an idea strike me for an improved move for the queen (if it stays at all), but what if parasite and spawn broodlings was combined? a unit with a parasite can be killed by the press of a button, kinda like a chest burster in aliens and spawn one broodling like creature?

[Faiien]

O_o
that ability already exists?
spawn broodlings kills the unit and spawns 2 broodlings O_O
iam confused plz clarify

[DarkMirror]

No, hjes saying parasite a unit, you can see what it sees. But if you clcik a button on the unit the unit dies and spawns two broodlings.,

[Faiien]

then what would stop the owner of that unit from just killing it before you can spawn the broodlings because when a unit is infested you can click on the unit and it will tell you the status of the unit, including if its infested or not
and btw i think that massable units has won this poll

*Applause*

[sdbolts11]

An infested unit being made into broodlings? Sounds interesting. Would make nice bombs if you have siege mode tanks with you. Would blast your infantry to shreds lol.

[pytum]

what did you know about that unit named succubus or sucubi? i only know that that unit had an ability that allows to use an enemy unit(like mind control) and when certain time pass the unit explodes

[Protogod]

what did you know about that unit named succubus or sucubi? i only know that that unit had an ability that allows to use an enemy unit(like mind control) and when certain time pass the unit explodes

I know it doesnt exist, so w/e.

[BludSyko]

Yeah, that would be the Naga Siren's parasite ability.

Maybe there should be a spawn broodlings-type ability that makes the unit explode, causing AoE damage. idk.... but I agree on more spellcasters for Zerg

Anyways, I voted for massable units. Zerg has always been the massing race.

[pytum]

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_II

the link

and this is another link

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=1&cId=3159837

[Protogod]

Thusfar, wholly unsubstanciated. I, personally, refuse to credit that unit as real.

[Basan]

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_II

the link

and this is another link

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=1&cId=3159837

The link on the Succubus page doesn't have an image we can watch upon, so most likely those are unsubstanciated 'facts'.
Besides that, the 1Up.com is now outdated and doesn't even mention that kind of unit. Until a confirmation from a more reliable source is provided, am extremely doubtful of this unit's existence. :_poke:

[Faiien]

/agreed
it was probably just a concept
but who knows it might be in might be out, probably the latter
btw i think its clear now who won this poll i demand proto make another XD jk

[Protogod]

btw i think its clear now who won this poll i demand proto make another

You're actually right about that. There'll be another one up within an hour.

[Faiien]

You're actually right about that.
you sound surprised that iam, right which makes me sad on the inside haha

[Skullflower]

http://images1.wikia.com/starcraft/images/thumb/2/2d/Hybrid.jpg/600px-Hybrid.jpg

Apparently, this is from a sc2 trailer.

[Protogod]

you sound surprised that iam, right which makes me sad on the inside haha

Lol, nono, I just meant that you said "jk."

Apparently, this is from a sc2 trailer.

Old