Now....

[ZeroDarkStar]

BSTRhino said there may be talk of moving BlizzSCUMS over here. Whats your opinion? Should there be a switch?

Cheers!

[UED77]

Well, I'd love that! This forum is still new, that means less n00bs and spammers...

We might try :D

UED77

[UndeadBastard]

Yes! BLIZZSCUMS should move since, um, I dunno.

[Dark_Soul74]

Sounds good to me.

[Doom_Dragoon]

I personally say nay. Many things went wrong in that process and we can begin anew.

[Geno]

Idea. Let's not have this ranking shit and such. Not to say it wasn't good, but here's an idea... Let's be friends, post maps, and have fun, ok? We can have a thread dedicated to story ideas and such, a thread for this, a thread for that. If you need help on a map, you ask for it. If you don't then dont. If you get help on a map, give someone credit. If you feel inclined, put in 'Made by the WarBoards forum map team' or something in the map. Let's try and not do this member shiznit, though, because that got too long, drawn out, and hell, we let everyone in... I didn't ever see one member turned down... Newbies got in... I won't point to anyone specific (By the way, I am pointing at myself :p), but some of the people that came in hadn't EVER looked at an editor before. That's part of the process. If you don't know the editor, you can't suggest ideas, because you don't know what you can and can't do. Trust me, without it, I would have suggested tons of ideas. Some just can't be done.

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

P.S. My siding:
90% Don't make it.
10% Sure, why not. (Only because we can say 'This team did something')

[Dark_Soul74]

Hmmm...

Maybe we could have it where we just help complete maps for the others, say if they needed terrain done because they are bad at it, or need more ideas?

[Doom_Dragoon]

Interesting ideas methinks... actually, those are very good ideas... then here's the proposal.

Should we reform the team and have a stricter get in process, where you can help on maps if you want, no project approval bs?

or

Should we just help any and all people we want, which wouldn't really require us to be a team...

[Zackarotto]

Assuming we actually move, I like the idea of a fairly tough get-in test. We should be able to use the maps we made for getting in at BF, but just with harder marking. I'm interested in finding out if my maps I used over there would get me in on higher standards... Maybe just a list of people who have passed a test, and not actual member sections, such as Terrain members and Trigger Members.

Either way, right? Who am I to decide...

[UED77]

Let's be more stricter, I say.

UED77

[Dark_Soul74]

Strict is fine with me

[UED77]

On the other hand, the stricter we are, the less maps we make.

Altho that shouldn't be a problem since we go for quality, not quantity.

UED77

[Viscount]

I'll have to see how many people here want to make maps for Warcraft.

If there is some people who do, maybe we can have a little something here for BWW too.

I don't intend on changing the BWW system very much. But I don't think BWW itself will move. We may just set up something over here as a cushion in case ever BWW ever decides to move.

[Doom_Dragoon]

Well, I'll start getting trying to compile everything. We'll have to let in a couple of people on demerits though, to get the system rolling...

UED is the only other person I can think of...

[UED77]

Like me? :D

We should take back our core members, like ZDS, Zack, Soul, Geno, and anybody else that shows up.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

I can accept that. So... let's get cracking.

First how shall power be distributed? Have to have some sort of Heirarchy.

[JCarrill0]

LOL if we dont move call the new one WarSCUMS? lol I know its sad to say but it seems like mor eppl followed ORG then Legacy. I followe cuz BST, MYSTIKAL and AJ r here. not to mention all the sc ppl r here as well. BF seems to be our rival now. we can make this work either we move BS or we can make our own. BlizzSCUMS seems to be to far apart anyways, I agree with doom, and Make a new one. Of course Doom takes the lead and I do recomend ZDS as the second. And then we can resume r formaer glory

[Geno]

Like me? :D

We should take back our core members, like ZDS, Zack, Soul, Geno, and anybody else that shows up.

UED77

Wewt! I'm a core member *Feels specialtized*

Anyways, How about A good 'ole fashioned team. Something like Democracy. If we have 50 members. 26 of them want to do something 24 don't, we do it. Something like that. If you don't vote, who cares. If not that, then how about we have one person in charge of an area like Terrain, Triggers, etc. run that department. Or, finally, we just not have the group. I'm still open to that. This fresh start, though, is very nice ^.^

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

[Dark_Soul74]

Let's have it an heirarchy, with possibly power structure as follows:
Leaders
^
JOAT
^
Highest
Level
Members
Of Each
Section
^
Low Levels
Of Each
Section

And it looks like one of them there tournament boards, with the leaders being on top, then the JOATs, each favoring specific sections, then the best/oldest of those sections above the newer/not as 1337 members.

[Doom_Dragoon]

No, it'll be something a bit more inspired than Forum + SCUMS.

I was thinking we have a branching system.

-Group Leaders (Heads of Organization)
--Group Representative (Represents all other members in major descisions)
--Department Manager (Keeps Departments in order and allows members in on his/her personal criteria)
---Department Chair (Represents the people in the department in major Department descisions)

That seems like it should do it. Anything I missed? QC?

[UED77]

Democracies tend to fail after a while. I go for having a head for each dept, and two all powerful persons who can approve projects or kill them --- but wait, that's kinda like the old one, isn't it? :(

EDIT: I like the branching idea of Doom.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

I noticed that our system was slowly failing, so a new one was in order. We have 2 for my system as of yet.

Note: KupaNeo is teh pwn!

Edit: Also, let's start discussing a name. No bs stuff. Be serious.

[Zackarotto]

Wewt! I'm a core member *Feels specialtized*

Yeah? Join the club.

I like these ideas fine, as long as we have a strict initiation. And hey, as long as it's a UMS map done by even one official member and is any good, it should be considered an official BlizzSCUMS map.

I mean, I'm all for community and all, but... I'd like to be able to perhaps make a map with zergstain and not have to go through hell to get it approved on the boards.

[Doom_Dragoon]

There will be no Project Approval anymore.

We still haven't set in stone how projects and such will work. Will it just be you create a thread to ask for help, or just to post updates for people to keep up with?

http://www.starcraft.org/bstrhino/Doom%20Dragoon%202.jpg

[Neo]

But but this means a new site?

Awe ;(

Anyways i like the ideas so far...

Has BST decide to join or not?

If we are going to have a name independent of the forums then it should include SCUMs in the name -- at least i think it should.

On the other hand we could name it The Koprulu Creators, or something -- to go along with starcraft. CraftMasters, you know waht I am aiming at?

I would really like to see everyone at BS move over here, and I might even get more involved ;)

-Neo

EDIT: I think that we should go for a group though -- BS WAS ggetting along. Its just we must have a stricter 'getting' in policy. And even then, we need people who will be active. I think that there should not be a Void anymore, but instead a 'Be Active or stay out' sorta policy.

http://www.kupatrix.com/stuff/neosig.png
^- Tis an IMG tag ^_~ PHEAR MY SIG!

[Dark_Soul74]

SCUMSC
StarCraft Use Map Settings Community
or...
EMU
Elite Mapping Underground

[Neo]

Dark, I think we need something Reminiscent of Starcraft... EMU sounds good spelled out, but when I see EMU I think Emulators and such.

I kinda like Crafters, or CraftMasters -- lol. But maybe something like Koprulu Crafters, The (So TKC)

I dunno... Also we dont have to do UMS maps only do we? It be nice to see more Campaigns in the SC universe though ^_~

-Neo

http://www.kupatrix.com/stuff/neosig.png
^- Tis an IMG tag ^_~ PHEAR MY SIG!

[Doom_Dragoon]

Well, if everyone from BS comes over here, how hard would it be to just change a few words on the BS server around? ;)

Anyway, me likes EMU, but let's keep em coming.

http://www.starcraft.org/bstrhino/Doom%20Dragoon%202.jpg

[Dark_Soul74]

SCMC
StarCraft Map Crafters

[UED77]

Ow, darn. Neo's right. Why don't we keep it BlizzSCUMS?
Let's think it over.

Blizz can come from Blizzard just as well as BlizzForums, we're just gonna say it came from Blizzard, so we shouldn't have any problems with that, and SCUMS can stay.

Comments?

UED77

[Neo]

True. Oh well. Change those words!

Hehe.

Maybe though we could cajole the Warboard Admins into giving the group a public and Private forum?

This way you can use the private forum for projects and a public forum for... 'publicity' ?Lolz.

-Neo

EDIT: UED I dont know if we should KEEP blizzscums, I kinda liked it. And I dont mind redoing the site graphics... ;P The major thing, I think, it to get input from alot of people. Hell we dont NEED Blizz in the title, or even SCUMs. For all it matters we could all ourselves the Wingnuts, as long as we do quality maps and projects :)

http://www.kupatrix.com/stuff/neosig.png
^- Tis an IMG tag ^_~ PHEAR MY SIG!

[UED77]

Yeah, what about the already existing subdomain?

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

The problem with BS is that not all BS people will come here and we can't just take their site from them. (It's not nice)

I need to know Neo, will you be officially making this your home, or will you be at both. If here, I recommend informing BS that they need to find another host.

[UED77]

Omg this Schism is really taking its toll on BS...

*sigh*

I think Doom, you should try to persuade them to transfer here... If it works, they can keep the site.. if they stay, we'll take the site away from them...

I hate to have to say this... :(

UED77

[Zackarotto]

Although I said that I'll go wherever BS goes, I'm thinking it would be better if I said "I'll go wherever the majority of members I'm familiar with and the actual site goes." So, yeah. Is that going to be here?

[Doom_Dragoon]

BS is staying at BF. We're thinking up something new, different, and hopefully better. It'll be a lot more efficient.

[UED77]

I'll probably stay with Doom. As for the others... I'd miss you if you left us, but it's your choice, whereas I don't even know if I'm making a right choice or not!!!

Btw, does BS have to split up?

Can't we just have 2 HQ's? Or would the admins not like that?
Or we can go offline and use IM....

Nah..

UED77

[TheNRz]

Weee! I'm here people. Bow to my wishes....anyway. I was once on BlizzSCUMS and I've got some ideas for a hierarchy of sorts. I don't think the shole depot chair and manager or anything should be like that. Leaders...members. Easy as that.

[UED77]

Hey, NRz, nice to have you here!

UED77

[EdvardMunch]

Name Suggestion: World Workers? I think we should continue that theme of "We Make Worlds".

So we're not transferring projects over?

As for the govt, I think we should just stick with the benevolent dictatorship we had in BF. No point in creating new classes. Instead of creating a new govt, we might just list all of the problems we had before and think of ways to fix them.

Problems:
1. Inactivity
2. Lax Entry Reqs - Obviously, solved with more strict entry requirements.

We didn't seem to have much of a problem with project organization, with the exception that it was hard to get into a project in mid-stream. Perhaps force the project developers to update the main post at least once a day?

[Doom_Dragoon]

Why if we did that, we could just call ourselves BS. I do vote to snatch up Project: Uncertain Future however.

[Dark_Soul74]

Yeah...Is it my turn yet?

[Doom_Dragoon]

It's supposed to be Geno's turn, but I don't know if he'll do his part.

[EdvardMunch]

I'm not sure if Geno will be doing the next part. If not, it's Doom's turn. Should he give it up for a turn, then it would be your turn next Dark Soul. The second draft of the map will be complete very soon.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Wait, so what I've gathered so thus far:

1) BlizzSCUMS is moving to this board.

2) Name is not changing.

3) A new leadership process is underway.

Did I miss anything out?

[Nozomu]

Count me in, guys. I go where Doom goes.

Name suggestion: WarSCUMS (Warboards StarCraft Use Map Settings). The SCUMS part defines it as StarCraft, and the War part attaches us to WarBoards.

My ideas on administration:
Leader - Doom (and appointees)
Members - The rest (sans appointees).

I don't know if I will have time to actually work on maps, but I will always contribute ideas and helpful anecdotes from my experiences as a map-maker. I'll also make fun of bad spelling and grammar. So, uh, again, count me in.

[ZeroDarkStar]

What exactly are "appointes"? Are they members selected by DD?

[Nozomu]

Yup. He's the appointer. Actually, it would be simpler if he was just the leader, no questions asked. Forget the appointees.

[Zackarotto]

I like the idea of a WarSCUMS and BlizzSCUMS, hopefully to work just the way Blizzard North / South does. How do you like that idea? We could have completely new standards and everything. I think that would be a good choice...

[BSTRhino]

Okay everyone, AJ has already informed me that the equivalents of BlizzWarWorlds and BlizzSCUMS will be combined.

Before we make a new system, can we first reflect on what has happened? Why do you think we didn't get a lot done in BlizzSCUMS? Let's all think about that.

[Dark_Soul74]

Hmmm.....We didn't have any refreshments!
We need refreshments for everyone to work hard!

;)

Too many people to control well.

[ZeroDarkStar]

We need a stricter admission policy. We can't call ourself 1337 if there are so many newbie map makers in the group (not naming anyobdy).

[Zackarotto]

Well, ask yourself how many days went by where no actual work was done, perhaps some ideas were posted and that's it? Each day like that is a day wasted...

[ZeroDarkStar]

Yeah, well people can't work on maps every single day.

Some people have a little thing we like to call "lives".

[BSTRhino]

Wait a second, can we reflect first?

What is the goal of BlizzSCUMS? To have fun, or to make maps? Which is more important?

[Dark_Soul74]

Fun. Then mapping.

[zergstain]

Hello, I'm sure you all know me. Am I considered a core member? Do I have to re-signup?

Lastly, are we going all the way back to our original standards, or are we just being slightly stricter than we are now? Because if I'm not mistaking, originally nobody who was good enough was joining.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Fun is important. But we can't have so much fun that being in this team is for nothing. We've got to push to make maps.

I'd say let most of the members join without a fuss, but all the members who joined within the last month or so need to reapply.

[Zackarotto]

Whoa, wait a second, ZDS. What I'm getting at is that it would be plenty fine if we had as many members as we did, maybe even more. With a goal of having fun, we could get work to get just as many members, if not more, that would each be willing to work. I'm not saying we should all work every day, I'm saying we should have enough members that getting at least one to work every day would not be a problem, while still trying to have a 1337 group.

Maybe I'm asking for too many great things that don't even work together, but don't expect me to choose how we go about it. I'm just listing what would be the perfect group.

[Dark_Soul74]

How about we make it a combination mapping/modding team?

BTW, check out the other thread in this subforum, I want to see what you all think.

[BSTRhino]

Okay, so we want fun more than production. Do we want people to learn from BlizzSCUMS more than we want fun?

[EdvardMunch]

In operant conditioning there are two types of reinforcers: (a reinforcer is defined as something which increases the likeliness of a behavior) Intrinsic & Extrinsic. Intrinsic reinforcers are rewards which come from within. The satisfaction of a job well done, happiness from your accomplishment, endorphins from exercising, etc. Extrinsic reinforcers are rewards which come from outside. Money, power, compliments, etc.

Research has shown that intrinsic reinforcers are more powerful than extrinsic reinforcers. Although a balance between extrinsic and intrinsic reinforcers is most powerful, what kinds of extrinsic reinforcers are there on the internet?

I think our problem was that we lacked intrinsic reinforcers namely because, with the exception of 3 of us, we were not working on our own projects. We were working on somebody else's project, and that doesn't give one a lot of pride.

So this is my radical suggestion: Anyone who wants one, gets a project. Some people are perfectly content to work on other people's projects, and that's fine. They'll probably become the most valuable member. For us project leaders, we can work on our projects.

However, it might be required that if you're going to be a project leader, you must also be working on someone else's project. This way, the project leader will still be contributing to the group while working on their own project will give them the intrinsic reward they need to stay interested.

The only catch might be that, once you start a project, you must finish it. You can't lose interest and make a new one. So think long and hard about whether you want to start that project.

Can Blizzforums load for anyone else? I think I just got banned! Cool!

Nope, guess I'll have to try harder.

[Zackarotto]

I always figured that it wouldn't be a learning type of thing, and that we would pretty much have to already have the skills before we could join the group. However, what about the idea of also working as teachers, and setting up tutorials and challenges for people who observe what we do and yet can't join because they have no place to pick up the basics?

You're not banned, Munch. ...Sorry?

[EdvardMunch]

Some people might find an intrinsic reward in teaching others. I say we do it!

Awwwwww darn, you're right Zack. Guess it was just an internet hiccup.

[Zackarotto]

Yeah, I couldn't get on for a minute or two myself.

[Doom_Dragoon]

You have to be able to learn. I say we find a way to balance work and play. We must outline what needs to be done and establish deadlines. You don't meet your deadline, then you suffer the consiquences.

[Zackarotto]

That would be a hard thing to balance it. If they didn't work, you might think to drop them from the team, but that's not very fun, is it? I guess you're just always going to have consequences, huh...

[EdvardMunch]

Deadlines are what remove the intrinsic reinforcement. With a deadline, you are no longer working for yourself (which is what you are doing if you have your own project), you are working for The Man. Keep in mind the reasons one joins a map making group:
1 - To enjoy the company of fellow map makers
2 - To get help in working on your own map

Perhaps the deadlines could be flexible. "It must be done sometime next week." Or there might be a rule that if the map is not done by Day X, all of the help is to be removed from it, and you'll have to go solo. This makes little sense, since the help is necessary to complete the map quicker, but there isn't much you can do in the way of punishing somebody without creating a class system (and I feel the internet should be a socialist, classless society) and kicking them down a notch.

Since I'm on my operant conditioning kick, maybe we should make a list of reinforcers and punishments and decide when and how to use them?

Reinforcers:
Intrinsic - Authoring something. Either authoring your own map, or being an invaluable and unique asset to someone else's map.

Extrinsic - Pat on the back, some sort of announcement (fame)


Punishments:
1. Removing all help for a project
2. Putting the member on some sort of a "u no g00d" list (embarassing)
3. Kicking a member out

[Doom_Dragoon]

Wherein the problem lies... how can we force people to work without forcing them to work?

[BSTRhino]

Well, everyone, let's think. Why do we like mapmaking? Because it's fun?

Well, why aren't we making maps? Because it's not fun? There's your answer. It's not fun.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Wherein the problem lies... how can we force people to work without forcing them to work?
Subliminal messaging?

[Zackarotto]

Depends how official you make it. If I wanted to sit down and make a map right now, I wouldn't have to stop because of low fun levels. But if it's professional work with deadlines and such, it would definately be less fun.

As for the question, how can we force people to work without forcing them to work? Rewards. I don't know, give them a gold star or something. Sounds childish, no?

[EdvardMunch]

But working on a map IS inherently fun, that's what I'm trying to say. We wouldn't make maps if it wasn't fun. Therefore, why aren't working on them? I say it's because we're working on other people's maps. If we were working on our own maps, it would be a lot more rewarding.

Maybe we should be more like a community. We post what our personal project is, and then we give each other support and help. From what I saw, there wasn't very much "Hey, good job!" and "Your contribution is awesome and unique!" (obviously they would be worded in a less relaxed manner. It's just an example, I know nobody talks like that)

[Zackarotto]

Yeah, you motivational poster. You're right, it's more the fact that it's your own map rather than professionalism. So, I stand by the statement of having no trouble sitting down and making a map on my own. Think of how many maps have been created with BlizzSCUMS in mind, such as initiation maps. A trillion.

[BSTRhino]

Wow EdvardMunch, you're pretty clued up on this whole management thing. To think that I'm doing Business Management 206 at University right now... could you be my tutor? Just kidding.

Let me be less simple.

I find mapmaking fun.

I find fixing StarCraft.org more fun.

And I don't have much time, so I have to make a choice. Hmmm... hard choice.

It's not 'fun' that's the problem, it's 'more fun' that's the problem.

[EdvardMunch]

As for the gold star suggestion Zack, scientists actually did an experiment where they did exactly that. They looked at a classroom of 1st graders. Now, 1st graders enjoy drawing with markers. The scientists secretely studied the 1st graders to determine the average amount of time they spent drawing. Then, the scientists pulled half of the class aside, secretely, and told them that if they just drew anything, anything at all, they would be given a gold star. Those kids were turned back and, on average, they spent 50% less time drawing with the markers.

Extrinsic reinforcement must be tied to accomplishment, and not just to grunt labor. So if we do use extrinsic reinforcement, it needs to be tied to how much work someone did.

Back to my community suggestion, it might be fun to have map making competitions every month, only available to members of BlizzSCUMS. The top winner of the competition will obviously be the person who put the most work into the map. Of course, there is a second, third, fourth, etc. place. That would make for a nice deadline without actually forcing people to be done by that. I think we should try experimenting with different ideas before we theorize the right idea and commit to it.

[Zackarotto]

Great. All we have to do is eliminate anything that could possibly be more fun, and we've got ourselves a map making team. :D

[EdvardMunch]

Heh, I'm sure your business class is teaching you more than I'm learning. I'm taking psychology, and we're already done with the behaviorism section, we're now into memory. Did you know that adrenaline helps you remember better?

Not only is fixing sc.org more fun for you BST, but you have a bigger audience giving you extrinsic reinforcement, and the rewards come quicker at a variable-interval pace, which is (I think) the most effective reward schedule. Map making is a fix-ratio schedule, which is the least effective.

A monthly competition would be effective because you don't know if you will win, (and you won't win all of them. At the very least, the voters will get tired of you winning and they'll give it to somebody else. Thus, you will have developed [if you're a guy]Russel Crowe or [if you're a gal] Nicole Kidman syndrome) so the rewards are paid out on a variable-interval schedule.

Terms:

Variable-interval: The reward comes after an average amount of time has passed, but the amount of time in between rewards is variable. For example, let's say your new love sends you an e-mail everyday, but you don't know at exactly what time of day you'll receive the e-mail. That's variable-interval.

Fixed-ratio: The reward comes after a fixed amount of responses. For example, an author who is paid everytime she writes 3 chapters in a book. The problem with this schedule is that the benefactor tends to lose all interest in receiving another reward after they receive their first reward. Nonetheless, this is the format we have in BlizzSCUMS.

[UED77]

Ok, reading thru these philosophical questions, they really made me think... what if we don't make a team at all? The problem with the way BS made maps is that only one person can work on it at any one time, since only triggers can be exported from a map (and not losslessly of course)... So unfortunately because an SC map can not be assembled in its elements, this "teamwork" thing really slows the whole thing down.

So I suggest that we stay as individual mapmakers.

(I was also thinking that if you still wanna be in a team, then return to BF...)

Comments?

UED77

[Zackarotto]

That's one idea. Stay as individual map makers, but you could come here to hire "Maps and Mods Depot regulars" if you ever need help to design something. Different from actually telling you what you should do and giving advice, they would work on your map with you. Assuming they wanted to help people like this...

[Dark_Soul74]

I like my idea of people remaining mainly solo, but if they need triggers, terrain, ideas, writing, etc, done, they can turn to the other members for help. Like some sort of co-op thingy.

[Zackarotto]

I've actually considered quitting everything related to BlizzSCUMS and becoming a Terrain mercenary. I think I will, if things go this way.

[UED77]

Yeah, this will work. This will work...

UED77

[EdvardMunch]

Yep, egg-zactly Dark Soul! We stay as individuals, or can go into teams if we want.

What I wanted was that we would have a monthly map making competition, which is only available to members of BlizzSCUMS. While playfully competing against one another, we remain a close group of friends who help one another out when necessary. Thus, we have the internal reward of working on our own map, while we have the external reward of people whose opinions we respect telling us how they feel about our map. Community is very important.

The competition itself is just a gimmick to create a deadline which people don't have to meet, but feel like they have to. And, of course, there is the grand honor of being crowned "top map maker" for the month.

[Zackarotto]

Alright, so I guess I'm a mercenary? I'm not sure what I'll do over at BF, yet...

[UED77]

I'll still stay there until further notice.

*ducks down to avoid the tomatoes, eggs and china*

UED77

[Dark_Soul74]

We should make a poll for this. All the people that wish to join the New SCUMS group would vote or discuss the future of a WarBoards mapping group. I also think it should include custom creation.

BTW, did anyone even read my mod thread....

[Doom_Dragoon]

Now there's an idea that's so simple it was overlooked for the longest, oh wait, we said that at the beginning.

I was thinking we could be a team of map makers that are for 'hire' per-say, such as if someone needs help with their map, they post requesting a certain person, or certain department for their map. We help them with the map, and they put our name on it. There you go. Problem solved, no?

[Nozomu]

I like it except for the name-on-it part. Usually people who ask for help are making "1337 dEfEnSe Pr0". No thanks. I guess you can just be careful about giving advice to people. Hopefully none of those people will pop up at this forum, at least in the beginning.

[Doom_Dragoon]

True... but there is no such thing as bad publicity, is there?

[Nozomu]

Oh yes there is. No way my name is getting put on a crappy map. If I had made the first 9999 map, I would have quit StarCraft, or at least changed my name. Actual skilled UMS players would always msg me and ask why I screwed StarCraft so bad. Also, remember a certain crappy RPG that I helped someone with back at BF? Again, no thanks.

[Doom_Dragoon]

Oh yeah, that little incident...my name is on there as well... I see what you mean.

I just played a map you helped make and it was the biggest piece of garbage I've ever seen

I once said something of this sort to Omega when I played a version of LA2 with his name on it. I was like, "You made a crappy map there bud" He later explained he just did a few triggers or something for the guy.

[Zackarotto]

Now there's an idea that's so simple it was overlooked for the longest, oh wait, we said that at the beginning.

I was thinking we could be a team of map makers that are for 'hire' per-say, such as if someone needs help with their map, they post requesting a certain person, or certain department for their map. We help them with the map, and they put our name on it. There you go. Problem solved, no?

Hey, that's only... 100% like my mercenary system. :D

[Doom_Dragoon]

I know, its a good system.

[Geno]

Sorry, was at work. Here's my saying:
1. I know, I'm up for Uncertain Future... I will get on that in the next week. No promices of when it will be FULLY done, but I wouldn't mind some aid from my friend, ZDS. If you would like to help me, say so, because I might not be here the WHOLE time to work on it, as the musical, work, and home life are all a bitch right now...
2. I think the 'Work on it alone or team, whichever' plan thingy works. How about when you have a team map project, we put in the title "Team project: (Title)" or if you have a Solo project to transfer, have in it "Solo project: (title) and such. That would help identify things. Also, if you need ideas, PM me. I would be glad to aid anyone on these forums for ideas. Hell, we could create a thread dedicated to map ideas, much like BS, where we had the recruit thread and such. Mostly, that was our idea area. Let's start a thread soon where we can post any and all ideas. No spam in it, please, if we do make it, as we want it clean.
3. BF sucks compared to this forum, now, because we have 1337 map makers here... Yea... I know we have them there, in DZ and Omega, but still... We have the almighty DD and BST! ^.^
4, and finally. Let's all get along here. No newbish maps. Any maps that we put out should be passed out to some of our elder members like Rhino and DD... They can review them and see if they are B.net ready. If not, we don't put them out with our name on it, but you can have yours if you wish. How about that?

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

P.S. If you need any kind of tester, I play on East under the username Geno1986. I finally got that account back a few weeks ago, as someone stole it after I made a good map that isn't played anymore... o.O I used it starting 5 or so years ago. Then, I switched to Geno_1986 up until last year, about mid Feb. Then I was T)Geno_1986(S, after that, Liquid-Geno, next, geno.ts, and finally, I got this account back. Funness. Anyways, enough history. Any kind of testing, message me, and I would gladly help. I have basic and semi-advanced trigger knowledge. Terrain is my weak point, and story, plot, and wriiting are my strong points. I give truthful opinions, and aren't afraid to speak my mind, so if I think it sucks, I will tell you. You have been warned ;)

[EdvardMunch]

Don't worry Geno, I'm still finishing up the second draft of the first map, and you know there'll be more problems after that.

[Viscount]

Oh good lord.

It sounds like you guys are making a system that is stricter and has a hierarchy.

Why aren't I included when I'm the epitome of those 2 words. I feel like you guys want me far away.... you left me so you can do your own thing here....

If any of you have the courtesy to at least consider my proposal.

We just take the BWW system, and with a few alterations to it we can make a system that has both the great attributes of each.

My system works, and I can prove it. I have been complimented many times now that they find it organized.

At the very least.... don't leave me out....

[Geno]

Hmmmm Problems? Idea... How about you and me share that first map? I can leave my position, and help you with your current version right now. Right now, I have the most free time. Not to be rude, but in a few weeks when you finish that (That's my guestimate), I won't have time to take my turn. If I help you now, I can still help make a map, and still not lose my place. Plus, I won't run into time problems... What do you say?

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

[EdvardMunch]

Sure, the draft itself will be done by tomorrow or the day after, but I could use another brain replacing my dialogue with something decent, adding in puzzle elements, and difficulty testing it. I doubt you'll be able to do much with triggers, because my triggers are extremely disorganized and I haven't used comments anywhere. I never figured someone else would be needing to look at them.

We're making a system that's more strict and has a hierarchy? What do you mean? This system dissolves leadership and allows us to work on our own! If by hierarchy you mean the mercenary people, it's their choice. If they want to sell themselves out, they can. There is always a thread spot open for when they want to start their own project. I haven't seen your proposal Viscount, where might I find it? (Since the move, I haven't been to BF much/at all.)

[BSTRhino]

Heh, we have more people in BlizzSCUMS, so it's not going to be an even matchup.

Anyway, I don't know what you're talking about when you say hierachy. EdvardMunch has got the idea, see his post above mine.

Oh good lord.

It sounds like you guys are making a system that is stricter and has a hierarchy.

Why aren't I included when I'm the epitome of those 2 words. I feel like you guys want me far away.... you left me so you can do your own thing here....

If any of you have the courtesy to at least consider my proposal.

We just take the BWW system, and with a few alterations to it we can make a system that has both the great attributes of each.

My system works, and I can prove it. I have been complimented many times now that they find it organized.

At the very least.... don't leave me out....

[Doom_Dragoon]

I'm confused to where he got that idea. My original proposal was kinda like that, but the mercenary idea demolished it fairly quickly.

[Geno]

Hey, Edvard, let's start a new thread when we can about Uncertain Future. Before we do, though, what should we entitle it, and what will our thread setup be like here? I mean, we don't have to have "New project: Blah' anymore, from last I checked... Oh well. Anyways, start a new thread, and I will post when I have a chance. P.S. Tonight, I have musical practice, tomorrow is up in the air, Wed. I have a trip to Chicago (Thank you chorus field trip ^.^), Thurs I have work, Fri I have work. That's about all I can give you right now. I will be on in the mornings except Wed to check posts. I'm off to school. *Out*

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

[EdvardMunch]

Wasn't the naming format for a team project "Team Project: Uncertain Future"? I plan on just copying everything from the first post in BF over to the new thread. I'll put up the thread as soon as I finish with the second draft, which will be very soon. (Like you, I have school which I now must take care of.)

Not everyone has followed over, so should I keep the original list of members, or should I dissolve it and we start over with the admission process? Just in case you wanted to gracefully bow out, now would be your chance. Because it looks like there are some people I haven't seen before returning to BlizzSCUMS, so restarting the admission process is a way to give them a fair shot at a place in the project. Of course, Geno is still next, because he's already begun work on the next map and planning out the story.

[Doom_Dragoon]

We will readmit everyone except the core members. These include UED77, Geno, Edvard, BSTRhino, Nozomu (whenever he comes), Dark_Soul74, ZeroDarkStar (if he makes the switch) and Myself... did I miss anyone?

Edit: Oh there you are Nozomu.

[Dark_Soul74]

......

[Doom_Dragoon]

I thought you were staying in BlizzSCUMS only... lemme fix that...

[UED77]

I thank you that you readmitted me. The order stays the same, right?

1. EdvardMunch
2. Geno
3. DoomDragoon
4. Dark_Soul74
5. UED77
6. ZeroDarkStar
7. Revelade
8. crashmonkey
9. poo_on_you
10. GSG-9

Has anyone seen poo_on_you since the schism? What about Revelade and GSG-9? Crashmonkey is staying at BF/BS.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

GSG-9 is coming, don't count on Revelade, and poo_on_you I doubt will come. crashmonkey is staying at BF, is he not?

[UED77]

This is from a poll I created back there. Unfortunately, it does not reflect who's gonna come here...

Staying at BlizzSCUMS: crashmonkey, Dark_Soul74, Dawg116, Drakain Zeil, poo_on_you, UED77

Not staying: Doom Dragoon, Geno, Nozomu, Zackarotto

Still deciding: GSG-9, zergstain

... but I'm sure crashmonkey will stay and not come here, just like Dawg116, Drakain, and poo_on_you..

GSG-9 is unsure, zergstain has already explained his scenario, Dark_Soul will be at both, just like me.

Revelade? I haven't seen him in a long time.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

Just drop him from the list. I haven't seen him period for months.

[UED77]

Ok, then it's probably modified to:

1. EdvardMunch
2. Geno
3. Doom Dragoon
4. Dark_Soul74
5. UED77
6. ZeroDarkStar
7. GSG-9

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

GSG-9 is coming. He only wanted to stay for his turn in the project.

[ZeroDarkStar]

I'm staying at both. I had thought I'd already stated that? ;)

Sure Geno, I'm open if you want help whenever.

[Zackarotto]

After zergstain finishes with Maze Game, we'll both be mercenaries.

What if there's some list of BlizzSCUMS approved mercenaries? I want to leave this idea of a group, but I don't want to pretend I was never connected with them...

[Viscount]

Yeah I saw DD's post about a new team like on page 3.

Never realized it died.

[Kahuzal]

What sort of team exactly are you guys forming here?

[ZeroDarkStar]

Well, this is a sort of reform of the "BlizzSCUMS" team over at BF. We make StarCraft maps.

[StealthyDeath]

So what you need to do to join this time? Anything different?

[ZeroDarkStar]

Dunno. You'll have to talk to Doom Dragoon.

[BSTRhino]

Joining is quite easy. Again we don't want 400 triggesters and 1 terrainer... so we'll need a reviewer. *looks at self* Hey, I think I've found one!

[Doom_Dragoon]

You always were the best Rhino. I think you should do it primarily with me helping if needed. I recommend you draw up a new criteria system. I think a scoring method would be really good. ...and we can make a quiz map for each department, which I could draw up fairly easily. Pass both and you're in :). I would need help for all but triggers. Also, let us abolish the Idea Department. That was just a loophole to be nice to people who were crappy map makers.

[ZeroDarkStar]

That sounds about right. ^_^

[StealthyDeath]

Maybe I can start working on my terrain, since you probably won't need so many triggsters.

[ZeroDarkStar]

I think we need way more triggesters than terrainers. Terrain can be done fairly quickly. Triggers take the longest.

[StealthyDeath]

I guess I should work on my triggers too. :D

[BSTRhino]

I've almost finished scene 6!!

[ZeroDarkStar]

I guess I should work on my triggers too. :D
Plus we have a bunch of really talented terrainers. *cough*me*cough*.

Nah, I'm not sure who's the best we got.

[Doom_Dragoon]

Hey Rhino, you want me to help you finish off that map?

[StealthyDeath]

Plus we have a bunch of really talented terrainers. *cough*me*cough*.

Nah, I'm not sure who's the best we got.

True.

[Dark_Soul74]

I can review as well. How convenient!

[ZeroDarkStar]

I think Rhino's all we need for right now.

[BSTRhino]

Which map Doom? If it's Mech RPG, not a problem. Scene 6 I think is really well written. You'll love it...

I'm just not good with action scenes. I need more ideas. Come on BlizzSCUMS, show me some ideas. The only sort of action scenes I can think of are bounds and walking along shooting things. What else is there?

[Dark_Soul74]

Can I make a quiz map? The (U) map-making clan made one for entrance, and having taken it, I was impressed, though the questions were mainly odd things.

We can make several and choose the best, if you'd like.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Which map Doom? If it's Mech RPG, not a problem. Scene 6 I think is really well written. You'll love it...

I'm just not good with action scenes. I need more ideas. Come on BlizzSCUMS, show me some ideas. The only sort of action scenes I can think of are bounds and walking along shooting things. What else is there?
You could have a sort of dogfight scene where you take control of Wraiths and dodge missles and other assorted things such as space junk, all while chasing another Wraith. It adds a sort of tenseness to it, by having you trying to balence speed and control over your ship.

[StealthyDeath]

I think the quiz map should be centered on mostly on the main ideas such as triggers, tricks(?), and other basic things.

[Dark_Soul74]

Well...For an action scene, you could have people shooting at you, and/or a timer, where you have to do X to live. X could be things such as escape an area(with various blocks ;)), or what ZDS said, or even having a scene where you have to use various controls to maintain (something), all the while with a timer and enemies attacking(Maybe aiming a cannon at rushing enemies?).

[BSTRhino]

Oh my gosh, that's perfect!!! Great idea ZeroDarkStar, thanks to you, I am going to add that in, and you'll be in the credits.



Let's all make a quiz map. I don't exactly know what you mean by a quiz map though... I thought the (U) clan did a test with all these questions on it, is it just in a map form?

[ZeroDarkStar]

Oh my gosh, that's perfect!!! Great idea ZeroDarkStar, thanks to you, I am going to add that in, and you'll be in the credits.
Why, thank you. I'm happy to help. ^_^

Let's all make a quiz map. I don't exactly know what you mean by a quiz map though.
Perhaps we should have a triggester make the trigger test map, a terrainer make the terrain test map, and a modder make the mod test map?

[BSTRhino]

So, a test map is just a map with questions on it? Do you have an example anywhere?

[Dark_Soul74]

Well...like for terrain, they could ask:

"What is the key to realistic terrain?"
A) Space
B) Lots of doodads
C) ISOM(Hehehe...)
D) Knowing what land looks like

[ZeroDarkStar]

I don't know how we are going to verify that a member got a certain amount of questions right. Unless we gave them a password at the end of the map that they could PM to you or DD. I think it would be much easier if it was just forum based. Say, on the sign-up sheet, we list the questions, and then the person would PM the answers to DD or Rhino. That seems best.

"What is the key to realistic terrain?"
A) Space
B) Lots of doodads
C) ISOM(Hehehe...)
D) Knowing what land looks like
Yeah, but there could be more than one answer to that.

[EdvardMunch]

I should think for a test map we'd want actual challenges, like a "fix this problem" sort of thing. So for triggesters, it would be fix this bug; for terrainers, it would be "fix EdvardMunch's horrible terrain" and so on.

As a person becomes more skilled at what they do, their craft becomes increasingly intuitive and is harder to communicate with words. Asking them questions (especially multiple choice questions) won't allow us to gauge their expertise. We need projective tests, (tests where they do the interpretting, like the inkblot tests) where the applicant can illustrate their subconscious talent.

[ZeroDarkStar]

for terrainers, it would be "fix EdvardMunch's horrible terrain" and so on.
You're so funny!!111!!!11one!!11

^_^

[Dark_Soul74]

"Does this inkblot look like a Zergling to you?"

Yeah, good idea. It should be probably a written/mapmaking test for the more...hands on skills. Writing wouldn't have as much of a written test, more of a "Fill in the story" type of thing. Ideas though...You could probably just...Get an example map and have them tell you how it could be improved, and not just things like you spelled spell wrong, or the Kerrigan unit had a guy's name. More along the lines of..the Zerg should attack the outpost first, and hold people hostage/infest them.

[BSTRhino]

I like the idea, but it doesn't have to be a map, does it? But I think the hands on test is best.

But we could make a website at blizzscums.kupatrix.com with a test on it.

[StealthyDeath]

I want to make the mod test, if you guys decide that customs will be part of BS and that I can.

[BSTRhino]

Actually, I was just about to suggest that. I thought I already did actually, I can't remember.

That way I'll be able to judge your custom making ability... although I already know your StarGraft knowledge surpasses me.

[Dark_Soul74]

I challenge you to a StarGraft duel!


(It's more than just SG, BST! Maybe have different parts, since modding has different areas, like ICE or .dat editing.)

[EdvardMunch]

Actually Doom said he was getting rid of the ideas section, he said it was a loophole to allow bad map makers in.

Here are my suggestions, all laid out neat and tidy: (and probably repetitive with what has already been said. Ho hum, good to have it one place)
1. Writing - Give the applicant the beginning of a scene and tell them to finish it. Max length of 10 pages.
2. Terrain - Same as before, just make a map demonstrating your mad terrain skills. Doesn't have to be melee, it could be also be terrain which would be suitable for an RPG or just terrain that acts as artwork
3. Triggers - We'd need two types of tests for this one: Cinematics and game playing.
Cinematics - Design a cinematic based on this script (we could easily just use a really good script from a writing applicant for this one, assuming it used the whole range of triggers)
Game Playing - Turn these game ideas into reality
4. Modding - Design this unit and edit these StarCraft features

[StealthyDeath]

I'll post up a link to a test later on when I've completed it and have time to.

[Doom_Dragoon]

Ok, I think triggsters should have to go through a lot of crap to get in.

1. You say you wish to sign up for triggers and post an example of your work. (Rhino)
2. If you pass that test, you go on to the written portion, which would be given via AIM, essay style and timed of coure. (Myself)
3. If you pass that test, then Rhino and I would debate on how well you did and if you are good enough to join.
4. You'll know which answers you got wrong, but we will not tell you why. You'll just have to find out.

I'll write up as many 20 question tests as possible, good yes?

[Dark_Soul74]

Hmmm...

Can I write up an open-ended answer test for terrain? That way it will be easier to do things, since terrain isn't as concrete and solid as triggers are.

[EdvardMunch]

Why do people who are applying have to write anything? With the exception of a writer, their job won't be to write. I should think we would just want to simulate what conditions will be like as a BlizzSCUMS member and see if they can handle it. Namely, we simulate it by just having them make a map. Expertise cannot be described!

[ZeroDarkStar]

I agree with Edvard. Though it may be good to see how much a person knows about a subject, there's a bad side to that.

Say, a person applies. His terrain is amazing, and his teamwork and personailty are even better. But he doesen't know even one damned "term". Does he know what doodads are? Hell no. He calls them "thingamabobs". Does he know how to convert terrain to different tilesets? Nope, never used a 3rd party program. Can he use custom brushes in StarForge? "What's StarForge?". Are you going to reject this person, even if he's created the best terrain you've ever seen?

Ask yourself that.

[UED77]

ZDS has a point. We need good mapmakers, not good writers.

I really like the idea of "fixing" a map... Hehehe... /me ist evil...
We can really make a map full of little eedy-beedy bugs that are just enough to ruin your experience... lol... that would be great for a test map :D

In fact, we might use our own junk projects for that, either individual or team... I have a few never-released abandoned maps. I'm sure you all have a few that are perfect for this purpose.

UED77

[Nozomu]

Personally, I would reject him, but I've always been harsh when it comes to these sorts of things. If he can't make maps as part of a team, he shouldn't be in a team.

As for a trigger test, I'd say have the potential team member submit his map with his best trigger work. Any triggester worth his salt, like Doom, BSTRhino, or myself, can pretty much tell how good he is after a few minutes of looking over his map. If he doesn't have a map to show like Doom, heh heh, he's obviously not the motivated type, and probably won't do much work anyway. We want people fully versed in the trigger system. People who don't know how to Comment triggers are fine, because that's an easily taught skill. However, if they don't know how to use every condition and action proficiently, they won't be of too much help. They don't need to demonstrate every condition and action in their test map. Doom, BST, and I will be able to tell, trust me.

A few restrictions on the tests that may help:
- -No Bound maps for the triggester test.
- -Isometric terrain only for the terrain test. Anybody can make square terrain.

I also suggest combining a "general StarCraft knowledge" test with all of the tests. That is, is the potential team member familiar with all of the units in the game and their properties, commonly-used programs, StarCraft slang, and anything else that will be necessary to help other people out? It's pretty important.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Hope it helps.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Isometric terrain only for the terrain test. Anybody can make square terrain
I absolutely agree.

[Geno]

I can help with about anything... I guess terrain is my worst part, and the only part I suck at. Triggers, I am decent at. I take a long time for those. DD and BST know my writing and ideas are second to none, and then I have my mission briefings... Yea, those take a while, but I can create such fun with them ^.^

Oh, and I noticed earlier DD said no idea development, so I guess I have to get into writing now... Funness... I have a 20 page English Term paper due in a few weeks, and I will just save that to a disk or something, and then post it here. That might as well cover me. So don't expect me to jump right back in. That is, unless I'm already back in ^.^ I would love that :)

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

P.S. I'm really tired. Sorry if this post made no sense.

[BSTRhino]

We wouldn't review you again. I think you're a fun person, and that alone is enough to let you into BlizzSCUMS. It'd be so boring here without you.

Hey guys, let's all go to this thread: http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=46 and tell DarkTerror aka Viscount whether the mercenary system will work.

[Viscount]

The mercenary system is going to be deja vu BlizzScums again. Just watch, if the Omega vs BS thing didn't work out. This won't either. Back to square one.

I hate to burst your bubble Actually I really enjoy bashing you guys and your lazy ways hehe.
But your going down a lane that is even worse than old BS.

[Nozomu]

I don't see BWW announcing any completed projects, Viscount. But then, I don't mess with their business or check their forums, either.

[Viscount]

Never said BWW was perfect, and I'm just expressing my concern.

I thought that by our little alliance we are suppose to look out for one another. Even if the document was made as a stupid formality for politeness, it is in writing and unless the words of BlizzScums was truly BS. The document still holds.

Rhino and as well DD was always in tune to the events within BWW due to my communication with them. I always try to keep the contact alive and I make sure I understand what is happening with BS.

If you think my words are a whole lot of Bullshit, don't listen to them. But you don't know me or BWW well enough to judge us yet.

Edit: There are 2 reasons why I am particularly concerned about BS.

1) I always anticipated BS to revolutionize. I didn't take into consideration it would revolutionze the wrong way, as well as leave BF.

2) I don't mind BS reincarnating here. But unfortunately the equivalents of BS and BWW would have to be one group. As you see here, even a loosely based alliance doesnt seem to work. If BWW is going to have any part at WarBoards, we would have to accept the system here. As a representative of BWW, I only display what I think is not going to work well.

[ZeroDarkStar]

It's not supposed to be like the old BS anyways. I rather like this idea.

This group is being formed for a completely different reason than BS, so we're not aiming for the same goals, thus, the current BS system would not work.

Take it or leave it.

[Viscount]

I know its the not the old system.

But the reasons why you guys are here is because you looking for salvation from BlizzScums. You think coming here is going to make it all better. As well everyone wants to pick up and be by Rhino.

To either take it or leave it are both not very good choices. I just want to compromise, but what I'm seeing is that you are going the exact opposite way of making things better.

BlizzScums died because it was too loose. Now your telling me that BlizzScums can relive again by becoming even looser?

So tell me then, what are the goals of this group your making? It's going to be a mapmaking community, so whats the big goal difference between a mapmaking team? They both make maps don't they?

As I said before, the Warcraft aspect of making maps at WarBoards is going to be closely tied with what happens with this group you make here. I do want to be part of 2 forums, and everything could work out for itself if this group and a warcraft group would be totally separte.

But its not, and thats why I'm involved, I want to see a part of Warcraft mapping here, but it won't happen if the plans for this group come into fruition.

[ZeroDarkStar]

You're making incredibly baised assumptions.

Salvation? What the hell do you mean by that? I'm not looking to "get away from BlizzSCUMS" as you might put it. I'm just trying to help create a team on this board.

And who said BlizzSCUMS died? Tell me. Who? I'd like to know.

For the last time, this is NOT a reincarnation of BlizzSCUMS. It's completely different. The goal of this is to help each other make better maps. It's not quite like a regular SCMD forum, where you just tell each other the answer to their problem. This will be a hands-on team. You can modify their map to show your point, and, if they agree, they can keep it and give you credit.

I still don't see why you think this won't work.

[Viscount]

Actually Rhino told me BS died. I hope thats not saying too much information, but this is why I treat it as fact than fiction. It doesn't take a genius who went to university when he was 12 to figure out that BS is falling apart.

It won't work because the members who are coming here are all the old BS members.
If they can't buckle down to beat off Omega in a small contest like that. An entire system based off that will not work.

[UED77]

Viscount, you are failing to see the point of this team.

Just like ZDS described, this is NOT BlizzSCUMS v2.0. That's back at BF.
This is something entirely diffent. The main idea is different.

This will NOT be about deadlines, teamwork, etc. This is merely a community where we help other members out, have fun, can lay back and not worry about not completing something on time...

You see the difference?

Cuz if you don't, then God help those in BWW...

EDIT: People are leaving because of the Schism and personal preference, not because of Omega's challenge.

UED77

[Viscount]

Actually I am beggining to see it now. This is what BlizzScums always wanted, kind of a dreamy community. It won't produce much, but maybe this is what you guys always wanted.

Well guys I think I will stop my crusade over here. Let me know though if any Warcraft mappers come this way and want to be part of a team.

BlizzWarWorld’s High Inquisitor of Departments
DarkTerror

[ZeroDarkStar]

This is merely a community where we help other members out, have fun, can lay back and not worry about not completing something on time...You forgot a that it's a select community.

BST was wrong. As much as I hate to say it, BSTRhino made a mistake. All BlizzSCUMS need was a kick in the ass (please excuse my language). I'm confident that BlizzSCUMS will get that with DZ. He's a bit scricter than DD.

My god...You have a really closed view.

"We won't produce much"? What the hell? This is indivudal work here. The rest of the team will be taking almost no credit here. Work depends on the indivudal map-maker.

I'm getting really tired here. For the last fucking time.

THIS IS NOT BLIZZSCUMS!

[UED77]

Listen, Viscount, DarkTerror, whatever.

How many times we have told you that quality first. We mapmakers can get so perfectionate sometimes we have megs of unreleased maps - not because of laziness, but because we'd feel horrible if we released some crappy map to further pollute Battle.net

We have decided that the previous system at BS was ineffective, so we have pressed Ctrl + Alt + Del and did a restart. Since the old "regime" was kinda strict, we went for being more laid back... you know, if you have the ablility to lay back, your work morale will be MUCH BETTER than if you were on a leash and forced with a whip to work.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

Why is it that he takes every possible chance to tell us how bad our system works, how good his is, and that we'll accomplish nothing? I'm thinking he just needs to STFU and go back to BWW where people like to talk to him.

Anyway, the lax system is different. If it doesn't work, how will we know, since we're having fun?

[StealthyDeath]

I removed the link because the quiz doesn't really prove a point,

[ZeroDarkStar]

Heh, I got a 4 on that quiz.
I think you might want to give more general questions at the beginning, then get more and more spesific on each round until at the end you're asking really obscure questions that only gosu modders would know.

^_^

[StealthyDeath]

Yeah, I'll rework it a bit. Maybe someone else should do it instead of me. It's really hard for me to determine what kind of question would be an easy one.

[ZeroDarkStar]

General - What does StarGraft do?

Spesific - Where is [insertfilenamehere].dat located?

Obcusre - What is the build unit number (?) for a Zerg Lurker Egg?

Dunno, stuff like that.

[StealthyDeath]

I'll think up some and make another quiz.

[Geno]

I just took it, finished the first page in 2 tries, second page in 1 try... I am thinking that isn't a good thing. I didn't guess on ALL of the questions, but about 30% I did, and with that, and my little knowledge of modding, I got it right. Let's put it this way... If I know little about modding, and get those pages done that fast, what does that tell you about people that can make it into the group? Think about it...

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

P.S. If you need a modding quiz, tell them this:

"You are to make a mod. In it, you have to change the unit wireframe, this, that, this, that, etc.

You have three days. Go."

And if they do it, they're accepted. That quiz shows nothing of modding skills. I mean, not to say it isn't good, but the fact remains, I got good scores, and know so little about it... o.O

[BSTRhino]

Do we get to look up the reference for Zerg Lurker egg?

Anyway, can we think about this some more. Our main goal is fun. How can we have more fun?

I was thinking, BlizzSCUMS awards would be cool. Any other ideas?

Now, what ways can we increase the learning that goes on?

That's a tough one... maybe we make it so everyone regularly inspects everyone else's progress and see's whether they know a better way?

[StealthyDeath]

Ok, I think that is better then just taking a quiz. So I'll write up some questions that can be asked. I did that quiz mostly off what I could think up at the time, so it does suck.

[BSTRhino]

Er... when did I say BlizzSCUMS died? Gosh, you're turning into Enforcerman DarkTerror...

Anyway DarkTerror, I don't believe in punishing people unless they do something wrong. Behaviour that does not lead towards our goals could be considered wrong.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Maybe we make it so everyone regularly inspects everyone else's progress and see's whether they know a better way?
Isn't the whole point of this team not to have rules set in stone?

^_^

[StealthyDeath]

How about this question.

Make a mod that with the changes to a Terran Marine. The Terran Marine must cost 4 supply, 500 minerals and 100 gas with the air weapon of burst lasers that deals 10 damage.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Make it a bit more complicated than that.

I mean, if I wanted to, I could just look up some tuts on the internet and make that myself.

And most of you might know how bad of a modder I am.

^_^

[BSTRhino]

Perfect StealthyDeath. Although, that's a gimme to any modder. We'll have that just to keep the morale up, and some more difficult ones too. Those will be the real tests. I haven't got much time to comment right now, I'm at school.

Well, ZeroDarkStar, I guess we can't make it compulsory for people to do things... but I know I'll be inspecting your work and going 'cool terrain! but you need to put grassy trees on grassy areas...' every five seconds if I can. I was hoping someone would follow my example.

[ZeroDarkStar]

but I know I'll be inspecting your work and going 'cool terrain! but you need to put grassy trees on grassy areas...
Ah....the memories....

I've gotten over that stage. I'm now at the "Why is Placing Bridges So Damn Hard?" stage.

[BSTRhino]

Well, no, the reason I'd do it is to encourage good work, as well as helping people learn. So, I don't just mean I'd look at your work, I'd look at everyone's.

That's a nice SigmaPrime map, I remember the last time I saw it was when it was first started. I hope it gets finished... it's so close.

[Nozomu]

BS awards... I wonder if I'll win "least productive"?

[ZeroDarkStar]

Meh. The triggers need alot of work.

I'm really proud of the terrain on that one.

Did you get my E-mail?

[StealthyDeath]

How about this one?

Make a mod with a new Terran Ghost that requires 2 supply, has emp shockwave as a spell, moves faster, can go walk over water, but can still be attacked with ground weapons, fires missiles. Requirements would be an Armory, Science Facility, technology of EMP Shockwave. Built from a Terran Covert Ops.

Best one I can think of right now.

[CaRBomBnCowBoy]

I really don't have a clue what's going on with this post, (one of those noobs 2 the site, 1st time on any of em) but I do like the posts and replying to all the diff things that r talked about. I just dunno what u all mean w/ teams n rankings n such... and a test? I just like makin friends on here, being able 2 talk about Wc3 and the upcoming WoW, and reading about strats n stuff that could be useful. O well I guess u guys that know what's going on will be the deciding factor here, but all I know is I just wanna have fun on here. CaRBomBnCowBoy@UsEast :devil:

[ZeroDarkStar]

Sounds good, though I'm not an expert on these things. BST, is this hard enough?

[Viscount]

I've bashed the system so hard because I knew it was going to happen and I fought to have everyone change their minds to have a more organized system.

However I see the point of this group here since this is what BS wanted. A loose community, which making maps isn't a big deal. I could never function in such an environment. I'm sure you all know this. Anyways I won't go on my crusade over here to convert you guys. It seems quite solid now.

My campaign in BlizzScums has just come to an end. Nothing I can do or influence until Drakein Zeil makes an action.

Along with this totally awesome sig Rhino , I think the booty I got is enough to go back to BWW and be happy.

But I'll always watch what happens here and at BS. Maybe someone will see what I see...

Now Rhino, I hate to use this as a weopon but I want to prove a point.

"Well it's basically dead. Take it over if you like. The remaining 2 BlizzScummers along Drakain Zeil as thier new leader. They're smaller than BlizzWarWorlds lol"

When I saw the word dead (and you meant this quite seriously) I tried to inject life back into BlizzScums with the only formula I know.

I hope you guys have fun what you plan to do here and I hope there are no hard feelings DD. My heart really was in the right place.

[Doom_Dragoon]

StealthyDeath, now that's a bit more like it. Something I couldn't do in 30 minutes. Stupid dropping out of modding...

[BMW_M3_RULES]

does anyone know what a wav file is when you are making a map

[EdvardMunch]

A wav file is the file format of the sounds StarCraft uses. It is any file with a .wav extension.

So when should the competition begin? I don't see any sort of need to register. You just join if you feel like it by making a thread of your entry. Also, I think if you don't finish your entry for this competition, it should still be eligible for the next competition.

[BSTRhino]

Oh! That one, yeah, of course, that one is basically dead. Actually, I wish they'd fully kill it and come over here.

[Doom_Dragoon]

I say you make a thread announcing it in say... March? That gives us time to settle everything.

Uh Rhino, Whatchootalkin bout?

[BSTRhino]

I was talking about BlizzForums BlizzSCUMS you cool person who's looking for reinstation Doom Dragoon.

Cool. A competition. I hope Mech RPG is finished before then. Arrrgghhh... I hope the end of year map pack is finished before Christmas this year!


Oh, yes, StealthyDeath, that is hard enough. That test makes me scared for some reason. I know I could do it, but, it's quite hard. It's great because it tests all across the board. Arsenal, ICE, StarGraft...


-- mock signature --
http://www.starcraft.org/bstrhino/BlizzWarWorlds superlight.jpg
I can't wait till we have sigs!!!

[Swiftjustice]

TheNRz Weee! I'm here people. Bow to my wishes....
HELL YAZ :worship: good to see you

[StealthyDeath]

Oh, yes, StealthyDeath, that is hard enough. That test makes me scared for some reason. I know I could do it, but, it's quite hard. It's great because it tests all across the board. Arsenal, ICE, StarGraft...

I think that one is fairly easy. If you choose that for an entry question the only hard part would be the tech requirement. Most people don't know how to use technology/upgrades for requirements.

[Doom_Dragoon]

I wasn't aware you could do that... such as you need to have like level 1 attack before you can create this unit?

[UED77]

Well, yeah, since the upgrades / techs are also listed as reqs, used for higher level upgrades and units' special abilities, right? So technically, we could make a unit to have these reqs... That'd be soo cool. Our first mod project could incude this as a nice feature... Siege tanks could be restricted to lvl2 weapon upgrades. A BC would be air weap lvl3...

UED77

[BSTRhino]

I think that one is fairly easy. If you choose that for an entry question the only hard part would be the tech requirement. Most people don't know how to use technology/upgrades for requirements.
Well, I don't like using StarGraft, it's really no fun to me. I think that's the problem.

And that thing about flying but being a ground unit: I actually did that the first time I made something fly. By mistake! lol

[Dark_Soul74]

Is there a link for the test? People keep posting about taking it, but I have yet to see it.

[ZeroDarkStar]

The link was removed.

Don't worry about it.

[StealthyDeath]

I removed the link since the test was no longer needed and it kinda sucked.

About the need to have a level 2+ upgrade for a requirement won't be possible, you'll only be able to restrict it to the level 1 upgrade I believe. I haven't tried it yet, but it could be possible.

Well, I don't like using StarGraft, it's really no fun to me. I think that's the problem.

And that thing about flying but being a ground unit: I actually did that the first time I made something fly. By mistake! lol

Yeah, i did it by mistake too, lol. I changed the Animation Level higher and I found out that they fly.

[ZeroDarkStar]

Heh, StealthyDeath, I'm not sure, but I'm thinking you're going to need to take your own test to get in, concidering you weren't in BlizzSCUMS.

Well, whatever. If I was BSTRhino, and he was ZeroDarkStar, I'd let you in hitch-free. ^_^

[BadAssNoob]

i have only been here a wile but everone elese likes it so i like it to

[BSTRhino]

Me too. You're already in if you want to be StealthyDeath, there's no need for you to prove that you're capable.

[StealthyDeath]

Well, Rhino says I'm in, so I'm in. :)

[UED77]

Okay, this topic has been quiet for a while, so let's get back to the naming issue.

Reason: I was thinking of creating a page or sub-section or whatever at BS.Kupatrix.com (No, actually Neo doesn't know about it yet...), and we would need a name...

UED77

[EdvardMunch]

We might want to analyze what we're looking for in a name. I say we bypass a name which explains that we are StarCraft map makers and instead name ourselves like a production studio. The kind of name that fits in a sentence of "Hello, my name is [name] and I'm a member of..."

And now I'll shoot out some ideas, see if anything sticks:
- Melting Oceans
- Out Of The Void
- Blank Reality
- Frozen In Time
- Delta Wave

Or, if we stick with the StarCraft map maker name, here's one:
- World Warpers

[UED77]

How about "Digital Planet Creators"?

It even sounds good abbreviated- Dee-Pee-See.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

The Architects. Short and sweet.

[DJtwon]

DJtwon's Badass Mapmaking Crew

DBMC (Dee-Bee-Em-Cee)

What is that? Why should we name this after me, seeing how I haven't touched staredit in two years? Don't make me throw these vinyls at you.

[UED77]

DBMC is too long, and it reminds me of MC. DB...

*ducks incoming LPs, CDs, tape recorders, mixer*

The Architects has a Matrix-y feel to it, and I wouldn't like ppl to think we deal with The Matrix.

UED77

[ZeroDarkStar]

WarSCUMS?

[Nozomu]

SCUMSCrafters
WarSCUMS
ProSCUMS
SCUMSMasters
Starchitects <-- My fave :)

[ZeroDarkStar]

I like the last one also, though it seems kinda cliche.

[Nozomu]

What about a combination of StarCraft and Artificers?
*The Startificers*
Hah! The Bnet community is too dumb to guess the words we would be combining. And I thought cliche was good?

[ZeroDarkStar]

Only if it's reconizable. We need a unique name to stand out. ^_^

[Geno]

WarSCUMS is too close to BlizzSCUMS, and plus, you can confuse it with WC. I don't think that will do, although a lot of you probably are thinking about it. I don't really know any good names off the top of my head...

Oh! How about Warboarders? Eww... Nevermind...

~Larry "Bad names Geno" Meyers

[Doom_Dragoon]

Starchitect has my vote.

[BSTRhino]

Heh, Starchitect is a very clever name. But nothing sounds as good as BlizzSCUMS. And I'll have to create a new sig... SIGS HAVE ARRIVED BTW

guess who created the "We create worlds." slogan hehe...

[Geno]

Starchitect has my vote.

After finally waking up, dying my hair, and reading suggestions, I concur. Starchitect has a nice ring to it. Also, you can guess what we do if we say 'Starchitect' ^.^

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

[EdvardMunch]

I'm not so big on starchitect. Maybe it's the word star, which is in the title of most bad sci-fi movies (with the exception of Star Wars, of course). I do like The Architects, it's a shame it has that Matrix connotation.

I put architect through thesaurus.com, here's what I got: artist, builder, creator, designer, draftsman, engineer, inventor, maker, master builder, originator, planner, prime mover

So, based on this, other title suggestions:
- The Originators
- The Inventors
- World Engineers

[dunchy]

Although I'm not a member of your map creation team, I would concur that Starchitect does have a nice ring to it.

[Nozomu]

Who's the man? Come on, say it!

[StealthyDeath]

I have to say Starchitect does have nice ring to it too.

[BSTRhino]

Nozomu, you're the man!

Although EdvardMunch was thinking along the same lines as me... it sounds a bit too sci-fi. I'd really like to change the 'star' part to another word... but there is no other word. Okay, I'll continue to vote Starchitect

[UED77]

Yay, sigs are back! I vote for Starchitects too - I find it original enough, it's quick to say, easy to remember, stays in n00bs' heads, etc.

The "Star" part IS clichéd, but what the hell? There is no better word for it.
Unless we go for a name in another language...

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

...and of course I get no credit for giving Nozomu a standard to base his suggestion... :(.

[Geno]

...and of course I get no credit for giving Nozomu a standard to base his suggestion... :(.

DD, you help everyone so often, we don't need to give you credit, because you have enough of it. :p

~Larry "Geno" Meyers

P.S. Yea, DD and Nomozu together... Yea, that's one hell of a brain to think about... I mean, Nomozu's intelligence and DD's mapmaking... This world would halt because of the uber map making tricks you could do with a mind like that :p

[UED77]

Hmmm.. guys, let's reconsider "Starchitects".

Google found 274 hits on it.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

...and BlizzSCUMS had 1620... your point is...?

[UED77]

BlizzSCUMS had 16 separate results. Counting all occurances in each forum post, sig, etc., now that's what makes it 1620.

The point? It's unoriginal.

UED77

[Doom_Dragoon]

There's not much more we can say that is appealing and still is 100% original.

[BSTRhino]

I wouldn't mind a name in another language... as long as it doesn't discourage people from joining.

[Avoral.RunE]

hi evrone i am intrested in joining the map making team and i'm not a n00b i have been using map editors for years and have had alot of experience in trigers etc and i am able to make good quality rpg maps and also i can produce a map based on a few idea suggestions in good qualty please may someone help me join the team as i have never sighed up for a map making team before and i also understand the rules and wont abuse them in any shape or form reply soon plz :rolleyes:

[IceFlare]

damn im a little late on the name thing o well.... free post? =)

[peace_machine]

hi evrone i am intrested in joining the map making team and i'm not a n00b i have been using map editors for years and have had alot of experience in trigers etc and i am able to make good quality rpg maps and also i can produce a map based on a few idea suggestions in good qualty please may someone help me join the team as i have never sighed up for a map making team before and i also understand the rules and wont abuse them in any shape or form reply soon plz :rolleyes:
http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?p=77468 should be a step in the right direction.

There are rules?

[BSTRhino]

Heh, I think it would be stupid of us to leave this thread open, I mean, nothing we can post here will be changing our decisions five months ago...