An Interesting view on Climate Change

[chibi]

I've noticed many of the threads in IR have been based around global warming and climate change lately. I figured it would be interesting to post a video about CC that an ecologist friend of mine sent. Does this guy have a good point or can you find some way to combat his opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ

[Neo]

What scares me even more are the people in charge and who might be able to affect changes that we should have -- even if they aren't needed...

People actually believe the rapture is coming. The fucking rapture!.

If these people believe this, then why should they worry about something like this? They may even think this will bring about the rapture. There are people who actually want the rapture to happen.

I know thats a bit extreme, but the simple fact is, and this guy seems to be saying it as well:

Regardless if the doomsayers are wrong or right, we simply can't do nothing. Wast of money? So what. We waste money all the fucking time on anything and everything. Why not throw some at something that might help us?

The fact is that we are polluting the earth. This is not some esoteric 'maybe/maybe not' scenario -- IT IS HAPPENING. And if it's global warming that finally get people at all interested in cleaning up their acts, then so be it.

Its fine to not believe in global warming, but you can't deny that doing nothing is the right answer. We have to live on this planet, and if we keep treating it like shit, then it's not just going to magically get better, or stay as beautiful as it is now.

-Neo

[Icarus]

please post any input in the already existing global warming thread. Me having to restate my counters over and over again is getting REALLY annoying, and i've already shown that man has not and cannot give any contributions (or obstacles) to global warming

EDIT: the guy in the vid failed to separate the points that "Global warming is happening" and "we contribute to global warming".

[chibi]

please post any input in the already existing global warming thread. Me having to restate my counters over and over again is getting REALLY annoying, and i've already shown that man has not and cannot give any contributions (or obstacles) to global warming

EDIT: the guy in the vid failed to separate the points that "Global warming is happening" and "we contribute to global warming".

You need a nap...

I am not asking your opinion on climate change, I am asking for opinions on the video. Sorry I didn't feel like hijacking a previous thread.

[Neo]

EDIT: the guy in the vid failed to separate the points that "Global warming is happening" and "we contribute to global warming".

I'm sorry, but what? Did you completely miss the point of video? "if the doomsayers are right" or "if they are wrong" (global warming is happening or it isn't) -- thats the main topic.

Whether we fucking cause it or not is beside the point. There is more to the issue then just a global climate change. I mean, we are polluting the planet, and something should be done.

Taking time to point fingers and figure out "who's fault it is" is a complete waste of time.

-Neo

[Icarus]

No, it's not, because if we find the source for the warming, we can potentially stop it. Unfortunately, the source is out of our reach.

Global warming IS happening. That's been proven numerous times, and is more apparent each year. Whether we can do anything about it is another matter.

we are polluting the planet

So? the planet recycles itself. Plus, what reason is there to decrease the amount of "pollutants"? unless you're talking about places like oceans and lakes where people fish, in which case I would understand, because it would be to our benefit.

[Thedutchjelle]

I refuse to believe we can't do anything. There is always a way.

[Neo]

No, it's not, because if we find the source for the warming, we can potentially stop it. Unfortunately, the source is out of our reach.

Global warming IS happening. That's been proven numerous times, and is more apparent each year. Whether we can do anything about it is another matter.



So? the planet recycles itself. Plus, what reason is there to decrease the amount of "pollutants"? unless you're talking about places like oceans and lakes where people fish, in which case I would understand, because it would be to our benefit.

I would assume the holes in the fucking atmosphere would prove that we are doing a bit more harm to our planet then it is capable of dealing with.

Unless of course you don't mind being blasted by the sun.

Global Warming has not been "proven" at all, regardless of what Al Gore wants you to believe.

And, no offense, but you are an idiot if you think the planet doesn't suffer when we pollute. Landfills, Clear Cutting of the Rain Forests, radioactive waste, carbon dioxide and other airborne pollutants that effects the atmosphere -- hell look at the smog and shit that cities like LA suffer from.

Claiming the earth recycles itself is a bunch of bullshit, and is something you should never buy into. The earth just doesn't magically heal after you destroy a patch of earth.

For example, if a farmer planted the same crop in the same field for year and year, eventually that field will stop producing altogether.

Whatever.

If it takes the fear of global warming to start paying attention so be it.

FYI: If we aren't the cause of global warming, then what is? Fairies? Aliens? Magical Witches of Doom? Seriously. Finding the 'cause' is a useless endeavor.

-Neo

[Icarus]

Temperatures ARE rising above the normal level. all my data I put into the other thread, which is why I question why this thread was created.

Whether the ecosystems suffer is irrelevant. It's not important whether we preserve natural habitats, but if we use them to the best of our ability.

What's futile about finding the cause of global warming? if we were to find it, we could do something about it. Are you suggesting we simply let it happen and become indifferent?

I'm not going to argue with you if you're so geologically ignorant as to not take into account the terrestrial recycling processes. There are hundreds of them, and whatever we do, the earth always finds a way to keep itself intact.

[chibi]

Temperatures ARE rising above the normal level. all my data I put into the other thread, which is why I question why this thread was created.

If you look up, I already stated the purpose of this thread. In case you're too lazy to read it, I want opinions on the video not why global warming is occurring.

[DarkMirror]

I'm not going to argue with you if you're so geologically ignorant as to not take into account the terrestrial recycling processes. There are hundreds of them, and whatever we do, the earth always finds a way to keep itself intact.

I think that the holes in the ozone speak differntly than you.

[Neo]

Temperatures ARE rising above the normal level. all my data I put into the other thread, which is why I question why this thread was created.

Whether the ecosystems suffer is irrelevant. It's not important whether we preserve natural habitats, but if we use them to the best of our ability.

What's futile about finding the cause of global warming? if we were to find it, we could do something about it. Are you suggesting we simply let it happen and become indifferent?

I'm not going to argue with you if you're so geologically ignorant as to not take into account the terrestrial recycling processes. There are hundreds of them, and whatever we do, the earth always finds a way to keep itself intact.

Thats nice. Post just disappeared because I hit some random combination of keys in fox.

You asking me if I want to stand back and do nothing is somewhat strange, since I have been saying that we need to do something more then just 'finding the cause'

Global Warming, whether truly as dire as Gore and others want us to believe, isn't really what concerns me.

There are places where pollution, and complete disregard for the ecosystem is destroying our planet. Specieis are going extinct because we push them out of their natural habitat -- even recently scientists are unsure as to why a majority of honey bees are dieing off, could seriously effect the rest of us. Clear cutting, holes in the ozone, dumping radioactive waste (our military has even done this!), etc...

To sit there and tell me our ecosystem is fine smacks of complete ignorance.

The cause is unimportant. Only action is. But it won't matter, they'll spend millions trying to 'find the cause' while the planet gets worse.

-Neo

[Icarus]

you can't take action until you know which actions will be effective. If, theoretically, pollution is caused by the emitting of x,y, and z chemicals, It doesn't make sense to emit less of a, b, and c chemicals. It's effort wasted.

Specieis are going extinct because we push them out of their natural habitat

Why should we care about the existence of species which do not directly interact with us and/or benefit us?

[Neo]

you can't take action until you know which actions will be effective. If, theoretically, pollution is caused by the emitting of x,y, and z chemicals, It doesn't make sense to emit less of a, b, and c chemicals. It's effort wasted.
There are very few 'chemicals' or 'expellents' around today that don't actually harm the environment, or cause damage in some way.

Besides, to believe there is only one cause for global warming is asinine. Do these people really think that there is only 1 or 2 things that are causing it?

Why should we care about the existence of species which do not directly interact with us and/or benefit us?

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. I really don't.

bees: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070511210207.htm


-Neo

[Icarus]

No one made any assumptions about how many causes there are for global warming. There may be one, there may be 167, but we still have to find them before doing anything.

[Battlecruiser]

I think the video is good for getting out the message, and simplifying it for people, but it obviously is much more complex than that. Nonetheless, I approve of the fact that he is trying to make people think and is welcome to criticism.
Why should we care about the existence of species which do not directly interact with us and/or benefit us?

The ecosystem is more complex than you think. The loss of one species can mean a chain of reactions that can alter and affect many things, some of which may be important to humans. Now, I won't disagree with you on the fact that species are lost often. I think it's something like 99% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. That's fine as long as it's due to natural selection. It's the unnatural causes that bother me.


Taking time to point fingers and figure out "who's fault it is" is a complete waste of time.

I beg to differ. This isn't just a blame game, but it would only be good science if we could determine what or who is causing global warming. I still think we should be lowering our emissions and becoming cleaner, but while that is happening, scientists should be figuring out what is causing global warming. The implications of such a discovery could be deep, and may even determine the fate of our species if the cause is uncontrollable and it keeps increasing. You seem to be making it seem like we have to choose between finding out the cause of global warming and taking action, when they are actually mutually exclusive.

[Neo]

The problem though is that many will simply choose the "lets find out why" whether then "lets take action"

I know its not black and white/yes and no decision, but the people who could effect the issue the most don't seem willing to actually take action... just seem to want to talk about it.

-Neo

[Icarus]

The ecosystem is more complex than you think. The loss of one species can mean a chain of reactions that can alter and affect many things, some of which may be important to humans. Now, I won't disagree with you on the fact that species are lost often. I think it's something like 99% of all species that have ever existed are now extinct. That's fine as long as it's due to natural selection. It's the unnatural causes that bother me.

Why? the very existence of us humans opposes natural selection. We are made to survive by using our own selection, our artificial selection. If we need more of animal X for exploitation, but animal X needs animal Y to survive, we'll cultivate both. It's as simple as that. Everything else, all the other species, ecosystems, is just background.

[Ragnarox]

If we need more of animal X for exploitation, but animal X needs animal Y to survive, we'll cultivate both. It's as simple as that.

No dude, not as simple as that. In many cases, animal X requires animal y to survive, and animal y requires animal z which requires a combination of both animal j and plant q which alone requires soil type l so on so forth. Oh and on top of that humans need an assortment of different sustenance in order to gather the required nutrients so instead of ending up with just one strand of the food chain, we have a huge mess of spaghetti.

So why don't we cultivate these animals and plants? Well considering how complex they are, it really wouldn't be feasible to make an entire artificial habitat for all of them, at least to sustain a large number of humans. Might as well just let the earth itself be the habitat, well, that is assuming that the habitats aren't damaged to the extent that all these species aren't wiped out.