GUI, Spells and being a Noob.

[Sid]

Well, I have come across many people who either love to hate GUI triggers. And the hatred turns into a flame when they see a Spell done in GUI.
Fine, I'll put a few arguments here... I don't insist upon anything. These are just my thoughts and few things that happen for real.

To start with I'll put on some crazy replies/feedbacks I got from so called JASS lovers.

1. "This spell is 'shit'. (Cause it was done in GUI) "
My remedy was a simple click. What I did was to Edit -> Convert to Custom Text, and reposted. next day, I got something like - "Whoa dude! This Rocks!". Now, was he real Triggerer or a guy who really knows JASS? No. Maybe he developed a habit to call everything that goes on with GUI to crap and shi, believing that doing so will make him fit in the PRO catagory, Poor fellow.

2. "This is gonna lag, It was done in GUI"
Fine. I admit, But one question though... Did you try it out and got your PC lagged? Anyway, so just coverting into JASS will do a miracle and remove all lag? You've gotta be kidding. Basically, reasons for lags are grinded to the powder. It's simple. Your triggering leaves some leaks, which are piled up, eventually causing a lag. And just converting into JASS is not going to suddenly clear up all leaks, You have to write a few lines of custom script functions. And GUI has this facility also. Blizzard has given us the Custom Script action, why can't GUI Spell makers use that?

3. "You are a Noob, Cause you make spells in GUI"
Great! Another one! Now, say, I'm gonna make a unit target spell that damages target depending on caster's STR. Now, this spell can be done using few click in GUI, with almost ZERO effort, and one line Action. But if JASS is considered, you have to write at least 5,6 lies of code, which is waste. Why go for JASS if GUI can do with equal efficiency? Just to add self in so called "pro" catagory? Oh, if it is really, then maybe I need a psycke treatment.

Also, If making SPELLS in GUI is my Noobness, then one click on "Convert to Custpom Text" is my proness for sure!

I'm not against JASS usage. Ofc JASS grants you MUI and most other featues. But these are the stupid resons for which the GUI is hated, and moreover theses reasons are absolute fabrications! And I'm also against unnesessary emphasis given on JASS.

So, these are my arguments. What you guys say on this?

[Blacker]

I'm totaly agree.I know why...
I dled DotA unprotected from Russian cheaters and I saw that EVERYTHING is made in JASS.Ofcourse,I can't perssonaly understand.Bcz DotA is popular and Ice frog is named by "pro" (but I think that all of you are better,I'm still Noob and soon I'l be better) and ppl think if everything is done in JASS,they're pro.Fuck that thinking.I think that JASS can only serve for hero reviving,in the other hand,we don't need JASS.The first thing why I love GUI is that I don't need copy of trigger to keep if something is wrong in JASS,you must do everything from over again.Ppl believe in that if someone says "hey,my map is in JASS",than someone else will say "yeah,that's cool,you're extra mapper".Or "why JASS,my map is in GUI and someone says "what!?I can imagine how map looks stupid.Don't except from me to try it,brrhgm...Ppl are stupid,that's my thinking when I gather all what I think.Be yourself,don't try to be something you'll never be...that's my massage to stupid ppl.

Hopefull I was understandable...

[Sid]

I dled DotA unprotected from Russian cheaters and I saw that EVERYTHING is made in JASS...
DotA ain't JASS. Due to fact that map was Widgetized first and then heavily optimised, the GUI triggers were destroyed completely. When they cracked DotA all they could get was the map's WAR3MAP.J script. They reconstructed a War3Map.WTG file using that script, That's why we see it in JASS. Now, converting those JASS triggers back in GUI is next to impossibe job. So, the decided to leave it be.

[edwinfong25]

hmm... interesting concept... ;)

well, the way i see it... :)
technically speaking... GUI is JASS... (well, once its converted it is... so that the game can read it...)
still... those that judge it before even looking at it... :(
not too mention that its actually more of a challenge to even be able to pull off certain things in GUI, as opposed to Jass...
still, my only concern is that GUI doesn't necessarily make you any more or less...

personally i dont mind either... i can kinda understand both to an extent...:cool:

yet... on the reverse side from what sid is saying... (just for the sake of mentioning it...) :concern:
there are those that are annoying to Jassers by constantly complaining to them that they dont get what they did in their triggers... (and other stuff... some being worse...)
and that's not much better towards those jassers...

so... in the end... aren't we all just humans... and as long as it gets the job done... who cares... :cool:
and if people would understand that and have decent courtesy towards each other... there'd be no such problem in the first place... :)

[uberfoop]

1. "This spell is 'shit'. (Cause it was done in GUI) "
My remedy was a simple click. What I did was to Edit -> Convert to Custom Text, and reposted. next day, I got something like - "Whoa dude! This Rocks!". Now, was he real Triggerer or a guy who really knows JASS? No. Maybe he developed a habit to call everything that goes on with GUI to crap and shi, believing that doing so will make him fit in the PRO catagory, Poor fellow.
Kiki, the sad thing is that some people don't recognize that a straight conversion is not only the same thing in-game, but that it actually takes up more map size (at least before optimization it does, in which process all of the trigger data is deleted anyway except for the actual war3map.j file). I love it when people are ignorant enough to not notice the difference..or, similarity. Not really sure how to put it x.x :)


2. "This is gonna lag, It was done in GUI"
Fine. I admit, But one question though... Did you try it out and got your PC lagged? Anyway, so just coverting into JASS will do a miracle and remove all lag? You've gotta be kidding. Basically, reasons for lags are grinded to the powder. It's simple. Your triggering leaves some leaks, which are piled up, eventually causing a lag. And just converting into JASS is not going to suddenly clear up all leaks, You have to write a few lines of custom script functions. And GUI has this facility also. Blizzard has given us the Custom Script action, why can't GUI Spell makers use that?

Yea, this is basically same thing as #1. Some idiots just don't get it. Using JASS does indeed give you more control over using more efficient functions, but it doesn't really matter if you're an idiot and don't use them. And as prickly as I am about efficiency, it really doesn't make THAT big a difference.


3. "You are a Noob, Cause you make spells in GUI"
Great! Another one! Now, say, I'm gonna make a unit target spell that damages target depending on caster's STR. Now, this spell can be done using few click in GUI, with almost ZERO effort, and one line Action. But if JASS is considered, you have to write at least 5,6 lies of code, which is waste. Why go for JASS if GUI can do with equal efficiency? Just to add self in so called "pro" catagory? Oh, if it is really, then maybe I need a psycke treatment.

There are a FEW points going for that argument. JASS is a lot less of a pain to edit later, it's faster to make if you type really fast, it doesn't use BJ's if you don't want it to (and usually you don't).
Anyhow, the other big point for that argument is, well...
Try making a trigger involving a dynamic timer system in GUI and come back and say it wasn't a pain in the ass. Note that doing such a thing would require a hell of a lot of custom script lines, and that just ain't GUI anymore.
The last thing is, well, vJASS is for JASS, not GUI, and vJASS is really quite amazing in what you can do with it, including an the struct system, which is a storage system far more efficient than, say, Kattana's or CSCache.


But yea, I actually do use a BIT of GUI on stuff. With some long init funcs it doesn't make any difference at all, and long lists of setting stuff up in GUI ARE easier to sort through than long JASS lists.




DotA ain't JASS. Due to fact that map was Widgetized first and then heavily optimised, the GUI triggers were destroyed completely. When they cracked DotA all they could get was the map's WAR3MAP.J script. They reconstructed a War3Map.WTG file using that script, That's why we see it in JASS. Now, converting those JASS triggers back in GUI is next to impossibe job. So, the decided to leave it be.
There's actually a lot of JASS in DotA. You didn't really think that out of that much stolen content, ALL of it would be in GUI, did you?

[Sid]

Pretty good arguments, Ubefoop. I agree.

I have said it, and I say it again. I'm not against JASS usage, CSCache and Kattana are really good. I have already said in last paragraph that JASS grants you a great control over the things. And, greatest advantage is MUI.

I'm just against the unnecessary emphasis given on JASS, even by those who are really idiots in JASS spell making.

[Blacker]

Why can't I do things in GUI which can ONLY be worked with JASS?I realy don't know that what JASS HAS that GUI doesn't...give me an example...

And as Sid said...Blizz doesn't made Custom Script cuz of nothing...

[WarInSerbia]

Just asking,what stands for GUI?

[uberfoop]

Why can't I do things in GUI which can ONLY be worked with JASS?I realy don't know that what JASS HAS that GUI doesn't...give me an example...

Waaay easier to script, edit, and bugfix.
And anything involving heavy mathcraft is much nicer to make in JASS.

Much more efficiency.

Function control.

Simple things like the 'loop' command that make looping things way less of a pain and more efficient than with the available loop types in GUI.

Use of functions that allow you to do more..such as GetLocalPlayer and SetUnitAnimationByIndex.

etc.

[Blacker]

hmmm...very interesting...I need time to learn JASS system,I know just few of them which are used for hero reviving :rolleyes: