Building a web server

[bluemicrobyte]

So I have a friend that works for a local ISP -- he suggested that I convert one of my desktop computers to a linux webserver and he could put it in his office (for a 24/7 un-limited high bandwidth connection). I have an old windows 98se and an old windows ME computer sitting in my closet. I'm thinking I want to convert the old Windows 98se -- it has about 64-128 MB of RAM (upgradeable) and a 400 MHz processor (the ME has 128 MB and 800 MHz processor if that's a better choice). The problem is that I have no idea what I need to do. I do have extensive experience working with computers in general, as well as extensive experience creating websites from a client/webhost perspective (given a cPanel account for paid hosting, etc). So.....

I know I'll need to convert the system to linux -- I don't know how to do that.

I know that after I do that, I'll need to install the apache web server -- I'm not sure how to do that, but I would think it's easier than converting a computer to linux.

I'd also like to get PHP support for my web server, and if possible MySQL databases (though I have even less of a clue as to how databases are set up).

So, oh great warboards gurus, what do I do first? (yes, I did do some googling but I always prefer advice from people over websites)

[Modred]

If you want a simple setup, I'd download Ubuntu 7.04 Server Edition (http://www.ubuntu.com/products/WhatIsUbuntu/serveredition). It provides easy installation of a LAMP stack (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) with common options enabled. Pop it into your CD drive, reboot, and it should be straight forward from there. I've never actually used the server edition, but I assume it installs similar to the desktop edition, which should mean simply. (Make sure you choose to install the LAMP stack, so that the installer sets it all up for you.)

If you want to get into custom builds, I've built Apache, PHP and associated Apache plugin, Python and associated Apache plugin, and a few other things from source before, so I could probably help with the configuration there. But that shouldn't be necessary unless you discover something you need missing from the default configuration. My personal server is currently running Slackware 10.2, but I can almost guarantee you'll want to keep clear of Slack until you have a little more Linux knowledge. It's really simple to use...once you know what you're doing.

EDIT: Assuming you don't have other plans for the ME computer, I'd opt for it since it has better specs. Remember that the reason ME sucked was ME, not the hardware itself. :)

[EvilEmpire]

These things will be so heavy on the server. If you can get your two PCs there,
install lighttpd, about 4 times lighter than Apache-only. With lighty you can run fastcgi, with PHP installed on the second machine to distribute the load. If you'll be needing a database server decide on which machine you'll run it, maybe on the one thats lighty on because the server is so light and probably your site will use primeraly php.
Ah that'll be so much fun I wish I had 2 extra PCs and a 100mbit...


---
By the way
Installing apache is very fun, although i've done it under Windows only. Unfortunately my nVidia drivers scuffled with MySQL and although I made a data base in the end I couldn't find out if it was working cos the PHP I installed (I was about to install a forum to see if the db works) and associated with lighty screwed..

[TimP]

These things will be so heavy on the server. If you can get your two PCs there,
install lighttpd, about 4 times lighter than Apache-only. With lighty you can run fastcgi, with PHP installed on the second machine to distribute the load. If you'll be needing a database server decide on which machine you'll run it, maybe on the one thats lighty on because the server is so light and probably your site will use primeraly php.
Ah that'll be so much fun I wish I had 2 extra PCs and a 100mbit...


---
By the way
Installing apache is very fun, although i've done it under Windows only. Unfortunately my nVidia drivers scuffled with MySQL and although I made a data base in the end I couldn't find out if it was working cos the PHP I installed (I was about to install a forum to see if the db works) and associated with lighty screwed..

I've used Apache on much lesser machines and it runs like a champ. Rather than going overkill and setting up both machines, why not just setup the better machine first with Apache and MySQL and gauge it from there.

I agree with Modred's recommendation for Ubuntu. The 7.04 server install isn't exactly like the desktop install (it's still more or less like the Debian newt-based installed), but it's pretty straight forward. At the end it will ask if you want to setup a DNS or a LAMP server, go with LAMP and it will take care of installing Apache, MySQL, and PHP. I've been running them all on Ubuntu for just under 2 years so if you have any questions, feel free to post them.

[Modred]

These things will be so heavy on the server.
To give credence to TimP's comment, I'm running an entire LAMP stack, plus some other services, on a 10 year old Compaq with 32 MB RAM and a 300 MHz Duron Processor, with 3 GB of disk space. Sure, it wouldn't be able to handle millions of daily hits (and I don't have that much bandwidth on my internet account, anyway), but the machine is more than capable of handling the software and could probably handle a few thousand hits per day without blinking.

[bluemicrobyte]

Alright, Ubuntu 7.04 sounds good -- I think I'm gonna go with another extra windows ME I have -- I'll list the specs before I do anything to it in case there's some hardware conflict I don't know about or something:

192 MB of RAM (I hope to add another 128 to it)
AMD Duron Processor (700 MHz)
Compaq brand
USB Keyboard & PS/2 Mouse
CD and Floppy drive.
10/100 generic compUSA brand ethernet adapter.

(more info including motherboard stuff coming soon)

[Modred]

Alright, Ubuntu 7.04 sounds good -- I think I'm gonna go with another extra windows ME I have -- I'll list the specs before I do anything to it in case there's some hardware conflict I don't know about or something:

All of that hardware is old enough that it should Just Work (TM). In fact, your specs are somewhat of a scaled up version of my own server, from the same company, with the same processor family, but about twice as fast and 4x as much RAM. I'd say you're safe. ;)

[bluemicrobyte]

I pulled out the RAM from my old HP computer that wont boot up and I need to know how to figure out if it will work with this system -- I'll copy the label (which is nearly identical on both sticks):

Infineon
HYS64V16220GU-8-C (serial number varies on each stick)
C1W02511103 (serial number varies)

16MX64 SDRAM
PC100-222-620
128 MB, Sync, 100 MHz, CL2

One is assembled in the USA one is assembled in Italy.........

If you need motherboard numbers I can post pics tommorrow but I couldn't figure anything out from looking at it. It's a Compaq 5000 model though (the tower is labeled as such, anyways)

[Neo]

I'd be tempted to say the ram could work, seeing as they are both old, but I'm not entirely sure -- without knowing more about your server-box.

However, with the server being a duron, I can't really see it using different ram then then older pc100 stuff.

-Neo

[bluemicrobyte]

Alright, we'll the memory is in (now a total of 128mb X3) and I've installed ubuntu -- but apparently the server edition doesnt seem to have a graphical desktop or user interface (unless I don't know how to access it) so I'm slowly messing around with the command prompt. Now how do I get this thing to actually do something that a web server would do.....

Edit: So... what IS the next step? The computer is running linux with apache, mysql, and php pre-installed. I'm at the command prompt logged in with the account I created (can't figure out how to access root, apparently it says I can run administrative commands from the account I created). I really have no idea what to do next to get a web page to show up somewhere (btw, the server is currently on my home internet connection behind a router -- once I get it set up it will be moved to the better connection).

[TimP]

A few places of interest:

The first thing I usually like to do is set up the machine so I can manage it from my regular desktop. Before you install your first program, make sure the package list is up to date with 'sudo aptitude update' (see below on sudo). Type 'sudo aptitude install openssh-server' to install OpenSSH. Running a command with sudo is the same as running it as root, when it asks for a password type YOUR password.

(don't actually type the single quotes, they're used to show the start and end of the command)

You can find the machine's IP address by typing 'ifconfig eth0'

There are a variety of Windows SSH clients, the most popular is probably PuTTY. You can here it here (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html). (you want putty.exe) When you start PuTTY, type the machines IP address in to the address bar and click connect. It'll ask for a username and password just like when you were using it at the machine console.

The default Apache web root is /var/www/
Apache configuration files are in /etc/apache2/ and the primary Apache config is /etc/apache2/apache2.conf

You can take a look at all the available loadable Apache modules in /etc/apache2/mods-available

To enable a module, type:
'sudo a2enmod (module name)'
for example: 'sudo a2enmod jk2' would enable mod_jk2 for serving Tomcat applications through Apache.

Typing 'sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 restart' will force Apache to restart and reload all it's configuration files if you change something that doesn't automatically restart it.

For general file browsing, type 'less (filename)' and press q to quit. You can also install nano which is a console based text editor similar to Notepad. ('sudo aptitude install nano').

The list is kind of all over the place, but it should get you an idea of where stuff is. If you have any more specific questions, let me know.

double post

[bluemicrobyte]

A few places of interest:

The first thing I usually like to do is set up the machine so I can manage it from my regular desktop. Before you install your first program, make sure the package list is up to date with 'sudo aptitude update'

This happened last night when I was trying to do something sudo related -- after typing 'sudo aptitude update' it gives me a password prompt but I can't type anything in -- the alpha-numeric keys do nothing and when I press enter it says "sorry, try again" as if I hadn't typed in a password. Finally it stops after 3 incorrect password attempts and I'm back at the prompt and I can type again.

[Modred]

This happened last night when I was trying to do something sudo related -- after typing 'sudo aptitude update' it gives me a password prompt but I can't type anything in -- the alpha-numeric keys do nothing and when I press enter it says "sorry, try again" as if I hadn't typed in a password. Finally it stops after 3 incorrect password attempts and I'm back at the prompt and I can type again.

It hides your typing. Just type your password and hit enter and it should go through. You won't see any asterisks, but it is registering the keys you type.

[bluemicrobyte]

A few places of interest:

The first thing I usually like to do is set up the machine so I can manage it from my regular desktop. Before you install your first program, make sure the package list is up to date with 'sudo aptitude update' (see below on sudo). Type 'sudo aptitude install openssh-server' to install OpenSSH. Running a command with sudo is the same as running it as root, when it asks for a password type YOUR password.

(don't actually type the single quotes, they're used to show the start and end of the command)

You can find the machine's IP address by typing 'ifconfig eth0'

There are a variety of Windows SSH clients, the most popular is probably PuTTY. You can here it here (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/%7Esgtatham/putty/download.html). (you want putty.exe) When you start PuTTY, type the machines IP address in to the address bar and click connect. It'll ask for a username and password just like when you were using it at the machine console.

The default Apache web root is /var/www/
Apache configuration files are in /etc/apache2/ and the primary Apache config is /etc/apache2/apache2.conf

You can take a look at all the available loadable Apache modules in /etc/apache2/mods-available


Alright, I got that far.

'/etc/' returns ".... is a director"
'/etc/apache2/' returns "No such file or directory"
'/var/www/' returns "No such file or directory"

Does that mean apache isn't actually installed yet?

[Modred]

I'm going to go ahead and suggest you learn a little about the command line; it will help you greatly in this quest. http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Unix/ is a tutorial that we used in my computer science classes to introduce new users to our Debian environments on the engineering servers. Be sure to read tutorials 1 and 2 right off, as they should help you a great deal. You'll almost certainly want to get into the other tutorials as you start to do more.

'/etc/' returns ".... is a director"
'/etc/apache2/' returns "No such file or directory"
'/var/www/' returns "No such file or directory"
To change to a directory, use the cd command. You can give a fully qualified filesystem path or a relative path.

cd /etc/apache2 -- go to the apache folder
cd conf -- takes you to /etc/apache2/conf
cd .. -- moves up one directory (back to /etc/apache2)
cd -- goes back to your home directory

If it's telling you that /etc/apache2 doesn't exist, then it may not be installed. First try which apache2. If this doesn't return any results, then the server daemon probably isn't installed, or at least isn't on the system path. Try sudo apt-get install apache2 to attempt to install apache.

https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/server/C/httpd.html provides some pointers for getting apache running on Ubuntu.

[TimP]

If it's telling you that /etc/apache2 doesn't exist, then it may not be installed. First try whereis httpd. If this doesn't return any results, then the server daemon probably isn't installed, or at least isn't on the system path. Try sudo apt-get install apache2 to attempt to install apache.


Ubuntu calls Apache "apache2" instead of httpd (like Red Hat) and 'which apache2' should output /usr/sbin/apache2

[Neo]

Reinstall the desktop version. (it offers a gui)

You don't need the server version to run the server.

It sounds like this is becoming more complicated then is needed.

-Neo

[Modred]

Reinstall the desktop version. (it offers a gui)

You don't need the server version to run the server.

It sounds like this is becoming more complicated then is needed.

-Neo

Unless I'm mistaken, he'll end up doing most of the server configuration from a terminal even if he has a graphical environment up and running. Unless Ubuntu has some nifty graphical tools for configuring all of these apps. Otherwise, it will be more or less the same as doing it without the gui involved. I thought the whole point of Ubuntu Server was that you wouldn't have to bother with all of these configuration details...

[Neo]

I'm just saying. LAMP can't be that complicated to setup (it's touted as uber easy and stuff) but having someone jump into UNIX-Command Prompt is a bit much.

-Neo

[TimP]

Unless I'm mistaken, he'll end up doing most of the server configuration from a terminal even if he has a graphical environment up and running. Unless Ubuntu has some nifty graphical tools for configuring all of these apps. Otherwise, it will be more or less the same as doing it without the gui involved. I thought the whole point of Ubuntu Server was that you wouldn't have to bother with all of these configuration details...

Yeah, Ubuntu desktop is nice and all, but doesn't offer anything in terms of configuring Apache (there are a few non-standard programs but they're all pretty bad IMO). The only benefit would be graphical text editors, although you can still use them with the server version via X forwarding.

[bluemicrobyte]

Alright, I've installed apache and I can access the default web directory in a browser by entering the servers local network IP address.

I *think* I've also installed php5 and mysql. The server is slowly moving forward :)

So now I need to figure out how to set up FTP access to upload files to the "site" -- and I'd also like to install cPanel with WHM for multiple user accounts (I'm not sure if cPanel is free or not -- they aren't very clear but there is a download page here: http://layer1.cpanel.net/ ).

I'll continue working on this later tonight and post again if I run in to problems.

[Modred]

So now I need to figure out how to set up FTP access to upload files to the "site"
Don't quote me on this, as it may be a feature specific to my installation, but I believe that OpenSSH servers provide secure ftp of the type you could use with recent versions of WinSCP (or the command line program sftp if you're on OS X or another *NIX). I disabled my FTP server after a near security breach, but earlier today was messing around and discovered I could sftp to the box with just the ssh server running.

Plus, with a secure ftp, your files (and password) are encrypted when they are sent, so you don't need to worry (much) about others intercepting them.

I'm going to assume the Ubuntu build of Apache comes preconfigured for PHP, but to check you could try:
ls /etc/apache2/modules
and it should list the modules that are installed and enabled. If mod_php5.so, or something similar, isn't listed there, then there should be instructions on the Ubuntu Guide I linked to earlier that will get you set up. And all of the MySQL stuff is handled through PHP, so I'll once again assume Ubuntu configures their build for this very common use.

[Neo]

http://www.cpanel.net/purchase/cPanelandWHM/linux/cPanel_WHM.htm

yeah... ;_;

YOu might try asking this isp dude friend if they use cpanel and if he could hook you up, otherwise... meh.

Search sf.net? http://www.ravencore.com/

meh, though its definitely nothing like CPanel, i love that program.

-Neo

[Modred]

http://www.cpanel.net/purchase/cPanelandWHM/linux/cPanel_WHM.htm

yeah... ;_;

YOu might try asking this isp dude friend if they use cpanel and if he could hook you up, otherwise... meh.

Search sf.net? http://www.ravencore.com/

meh, though its definitely nothing like CPanel, i love that program.

-Neo

Dang. If anyone wants to pony up $1500, I'll write you a custom site management panel. =p

But I get the feeling that cPanel is targeted toward hosting companies that can buy a big license and then use it for every domain that they host.

[Neo]

Dang. If anyone wants to pony up $1500, I'll write you a custom site management panel. =p

But I get the feeling that cPanel is targeted toward hosting companies that can buy a big license and then use it for every domain that they host.

Man, Modred, I really miss CPanel, it is probably the one major regret I have about dreamhost, though now they've been awesome about stuff, and they finally updated their own homebrew panel (its decent in itself I suppose).

But CPanel... I can see paying 1500 for it.

However, you are right about it being aimed at hosters, rather then individuals.

-Neo

[bluemicrobyte]

Licenses for educational institutions are provided free of charge.... generally all domains with an .edu extension can apply I wonder if that means that the cpanel must be hosted on a .edu domain, or if an owner of a .edu domain must apply for a license that can be used anywhere......

[Neo]

Usually thats what it means, since not anyone can signup for an .edu

-Neo

[bluemicrobyte]

***Thread Rez***
(someone speak up if a new thread is in order, but for now I'll keep all my server issues in this thread)

So I've finally got the server running apache, php, mysql, and a whole bunch of other modules. I've managed to install Webmin, finally breaking free from the command prompt (Webmin allows me to work from a web based interface). I've also managed to install phpmyadmin. I've even gotten the server set up so I can log in via FTP and upload my files to a directory (/home/blue/public_html/) and have them show up as the website when I type the IP address (LAN) of the server into a browser.

My latest issue is with phpMyAdmin and php.ini -- phpMyAdmin has an "import" feature that allows me to upload a database file to the server. My file is 11 MBs, but it tells me that an error occured because the file was too big and told me:

The first things to check (or ask your host provider to check) are the values of upload_max_filesize, memory_limit and post_max_size in the php.ini configuration file. All of these three settings limit the maximum size of data that can be submitted and handled by PHP. One user also said that post_max_size and memory_limit need to be larger than upload_max_filesize.

I've edited the file located at /etc/php5/apache2/php.ini and modified all three values to be 2048M but I'm still getting the upload error.

Any ideas? (PS: Yes, I restarted apache after updating the values)

[TimP]

Export the original data as bzip2 compressed, or you can compress it manually. Since a dumped MySQL DB is just a lot of (often similar) text, you can shrink the file by 80-90% if it's not full of binary data.

I'm guessing the problem you're having isn't that the file is too big, but that it's taking too long to import and the page is timing out, off the top of my head I don't remember if this is an Apache setting or a PHP setting. For large loads, you may have to get reacquainted with your old friend the command line and take a look at the mysqlimport command.

EDIT: I did some looking at apparently there's a "max_execution_time" setting in php.ini. Try bumping that up.

[Neo]

Yeah, I was going to suggest that to, I had to change the execution time on my uploader so it would except the larger files/zip files to unzip and stuff.

-Neo

[bluemicrobyte]

Export the original data as bzip2 compressed, or you can compress it manually. Since a dumped MySQL DB is just a lot of (often similar) text, you can shrink the file by 80-90% if it's not full of binary data.

I'm guessing the problem you're having isn't that the file is too big, but that it's taking too long to import and the page is timing out, off the top of my head I don't remember if this is an Apache setting or a PHP setting. For large loads, you may have to get reacquainted with your old friend the command line and take a look at the mysqlimport command.

EDIT: I did some looking at apparently there's a "max_execution_time" setting in php.ini. Try bumping that up.

The file is already compressed as a .tar.gz file, and since it's uploading over the local network the total upload time is no more than 10-20 seconds or so -- the timeouts are set to 60 seconds (one might be 30 seconds, but either way I don't think it's timing out).

[TimP]

You'd be surprised how long it takes to insert 11MB of data, especially since you said it was an older machine. If phpMyAdmin won't work then mysqlimport is the best option.

[bluemicrobyte]

Update: I just tried uploading smaller database files (less than 1 MB) and I get the same "file too big" error.... that's not good.

Update 2: Apparently I can't run any queries from phpmyadmin either, I get the same "too big" error. Nor can I create tables manually in phpmyadmin, so there must be something wrong. Maybe I didn't configure it correctly?

If someone can tell me how to make the server accessible from the internet I can let one of you guys log in directly and take a look (there's no important data on the machine yet).

Original Post
Hmmm, well I bumped both timouts up to 120 seconds and I still get this error:

ERROR: You probably tried to upload too large file. Please refer to documentation for ways to workaround this limit.

The documentation suggests increasing the max file size and other related settings in the php.ini file (which I've done) or it suggests other methods like mysqlimport. I could do that, but it would be nice to figure out why it isn't accepting the upload through the web form.

If it helps, the phpmyadmin upload form has a note that says: (Max: 2,047MiB) and I don't know what a MiB is but I assume is a megabyte since php.ini is set to "2047M"

(edit: and I just uncompressed the file to see how big it was -- the un-tar.gzed file is about 130 megs)

[TimP]

If you install the openssh-server package and forward port 22 on your router to the Linux box, you're set for remote access. You can PM me the IP address/hostname and a username and password to use I'd be happy to take a look.

The easiest way to do it would be to create a separate account so you don't have to tell me any of your passwords.

sudo adduser tim (adds me as a user)
sudo passwd tim (sets an initial password)
sudo usermod -Gadmin tim (lets me run stuff as root)

[bluemicrobyte]

*Thread rez*

TimP has been helping me get the server set up and it's coming along quite nicely. However, I have an issue that perhaps someone could help me fix on my own --

The directory "/home/blue/public_html/" is currently set up to be the default web folder (stuff displayed when visiting in a browser) but I'm having trouble with "403 Forbidden" errors coming up whenever I try to make new folders or change stuff around. How do I set it up so that everything in the director mentioned above is set to be seen in a browser?

[Modred]

Try the following in that directory:
chmod -R a+r *
This should make it so that all groups have permission to read the files. -R says to operate recursively down directories in the current directory, and a+r says give all groups read access. (This could also be o+r to give others read access, since the web server almost certainly isn't in your group and would count as an other).

That should clear up permissions for any files you have in the directory and any subdirectories for now. When you add new files, you may have to change their permissions. To check on permissions for a file, type:
ls -l
This should give output like the following:

-rw-r--r-- 1 blue users 1024 2007-05-31 05:34 filename.txt

That first bit of text gives you the permissions. Each position in that string can be either a - or a letter. The first one can be a 'd', which means the associated file is a directory.

The next three are permissions for the user who created it, and the possible options are 'r' for read access, 'w' for write access, and 'x' for executable. The next three permission settings apply to the owner's group, and the last three apply to anyone else.

drw-r--r-- is a directory that can be read by anyone and written to by its owner

-rwxrwxrwx is a file that can be read from, written to, or executed by anyone

-rw-rw---- is a file that can be read from or written to by anyone in the owner's group, but no one else.

I imagine you get the picture. For the web server to display files over the web, the final set of permissions (for those outside your group) must have read access. Something like:

-rw-r--r--

If you have your website alter files on the computer, for example storing user input or whatever, then your web server will need write access to the files it writes to (but it's probably safest to only give it write access to those files and not the whole directory).

Of course, if you're using Nautilus or another graphical file browser, you can just right click on a file and view its properties, much like in Windows.

[bluemicrobyte]

Thanks, Modred. I tried the first command (chmod -R a+r *) with sudo in the public_html directory and got a whole lot of "operation not permitted" errors. What am I doing wrong? (I can give you an IP address and login username if you'd prefer to take a look yourself)

Also, is there a way to set it up to automatically set the permissions on new files to be readable by the webserver for everything in the public_html directory?

[Modred]

Thanks, Modred. I tried the first command (chmod -R a+r *) with sudo in the public_html directory and got a whole lot of "operation not permitted" errors. What am I doing wrong? (I can give you an IP address and login username if you'd prefer to take a look yourself)

How exactly did you get these files onto the server? Because it sounds like some of the files under that directory don't belong to you. You could always do this:

sudo chown -R blue:users *

That should give you ownership of all files in or below your public_html directory. After that you should be able to issue the appropriate commands. Although, I'm not sure why it would have given you the operation not permitted error if you were using sudo.

Also, is there a way to set it up to automatically set the permissions on new files to be readable by the webserver for everything in the public_html directory?

I'm not sure.

[bluemicrobyte]

The files were placed there via FTP over the local network with a username other than the default/admin user -- I don't remember how I created this secondary user login or the permissions I assigned it.

[Modred]

The files were placed there via FTP over the local network with a username other than the default/admin user -- I don't remember how I created this secondary user login or the permissions I assigned it.

If this other user is not your normal account, that's most likely why you got those errors. You can't change the permissions for something you don't own. Using the chown command I gave you earlier should transfer them to your ownership and you can do what you want with them.

If that doesn't work (sudo chown ....), then there may be something else afoot.