Here's something Mickey Mouse would never do.

[raidmax]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEGsnWZKh8

My teacher showed this to our class today. This is sick. Hamas is using Mickey to teach hate to kids, and Islamic supremacy. Just sick...

[B.A.Baracus]

Lol at their wannabe racially pure Nazi movement ;D
They step up, we'll knock em down.

[own3d0406]

I was just waiting for that mouse to break dance while the kids were singing.

[Spartan-II]

That is revolting.

They're aiming to turn the Palestinians into a zealous death cult..

This is why I hate religion.

[TheListener]

What are you blokes yelling about? I grew up on this stuff!

Haha! This is my favourite episode! I always had a crush on the little girl.











In all seriousness though. This is pretty bad. But I mean, it wasn't that long ago when I heard on a radio station in Seattle something along the lines of "It is your duty as an American to harass or beat any Muslim you see, those turban wearing mother fuckers, they have ruined this great nation." I mean, this guy is a terrorist, what are you going to expect, seriously?

@Spartan: You can't blame religion. You're being immeasurably stupid by saying that. Like I said in another thread, if they're not using religion to start a war, then it's skin colour (Segregation in South Africa, KKK in the US), if not, then the shape of someone's nose (Genocide in Rwanda in the Early 90s), if it's not their nose then it's their ancestors (Genocide in Armenia), if it isn't that then they're going to find something else.
WE'RE HUMAN. We're a violent lot, don't point the finger at a book and a God you don't believe in, you just stand to look foolish and offend a great deal of people.

[Icarus]

I don't know... It seems too blatant, and doesn't add up. Do you think small children even know what they're talking about? do you think 8 year-olds have any care on worldly affairs? And the caller... I don't think it's authentic. In fact, I think it might be American propaganda. Just doesn't fit.

[TheListener]

@Numbers: I doubt it's American propaganda. But I do believe you in saying that these kids are just sputtering out what they see. They don't know what 'dying for belief' is at all. They're just regurgitating what they've learnt.

What I wonder though is whether or not this is a weekly program!

:D

[Ubergopher]

I find nothing surprising about this. I mean these are the same terrorists that blow up school buses, so why should I be shocked that they are trying to brainwash children.

In fact, I think it might be American propaganda. Just doesn't fit.
You're silly.

[Spartan-II]

Listener: You have no clue at my full motivation for hating religion. Religion has caused more death and pain than any single dictator in history. At least with religion out of the way, people could stop hiding behind faith and give their true reasons for hating someone, or for starting war.

I recognize the fact that humans are violent, you will never hear me dispute that. What disgusts me is when people use religion as an excuse for terror tactics and murder. Religion is not made to inspire hate, it's meant to guide you to 'heaven' or to help you lead a 'moral' and fulfilling life.

When you use religion as your shield and sword instead of as guiding principles to lead a good life, you've crossed a boundary.

I don't care who I offend. If you can't deal with my opinion, you either need to grow thicker skin or go the fuck away.

And by the way, the KKK was started by religious men.

[Lazere]

Eh, seems fake to me. It doesn't relate to kids. The kid in the video acted more like a newscaster than someone on a kids show. There were a few jokes in there that seemed just too American to me... Seemed like right-wing propaganda to justify the war...

[Magmaniac]

I fully support Spartan, here. Religion is inherently evil, without it there would be much more peace in the world.

[kongurous]

I fully support Spartan, here. Religion is inherently evil, without it there would be much more peace in the world.

Oh yes, religion is the cause of all evil. Of course it is, that's exactly why 84% of the world's population is committing every crime under the sun. Oh wait...

[Spartan-II]

Instead of being sarcastic and condescending you could just say exactly what you mean.

Where did that 84% come from? Did you 'read' it somewhere or did you pull it out of your ass?

[Magmaniac]

If it weren't for religion, the middle east would pretty much be at peace.
Don't even try to deny that.

[Black.Ice]

If it weren't for religion none of the great empires would have been united to form what we have today.

[Magmaniac]

you mean none of the past empires could have supressed their people as easily, thus crushing rebellions under guise of heresy?

[Black.Ice]

No, I don't mean that.

What I mean is that none of the great empires would have united together to create advances in science, technology and general well-being rather then killing each other senselessly over territorial disputes.

Looking at the Islamic empire, around the 7th century, the nomadic tribes united and began to work together. The empire flourished and numerous advances in math, science and medicine were discovered (Algebra, Medicinal Herbs, Optics, etc.).

But in all honesty, I don't think it's possible to tell what would have happened without religion. If you think about it, religion has been rooted into our society from pre-historic times. People believed in idols, stones, or whatever the hell they want. Since they've been around for as long as we know, I believe it's hard, if not impossible, to say what life today would be like without them.

[Icarus]

Shall we move this to the IR? Religion is one of my fav arguments.

If not, let's keep it to the prescribed topic. Where's the authenticity of this video?

[Maegtelluma]

"nucleus" seems a little over the top for something meant for little kids. Ridiculous if it's true, but I don't buy it.

[ScottieIWU]

If not, let's keep it to the prescribed topic. Where's the authenticity of this video?I agree, who's to say that some dude didn't just slap that on their to get people pissed. How many americans speak any middle-eastern language and thus would actually know if those subtitles are correct.

I'm just kinda curious.

[Toucan]

Here is the page of the full article. CLICK (http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_may2007.htm)
Links to more episodes as well.

I think this is authentic, it's just the sort of hateful crap people have always produced.

[Spartan-II]

This reminds me of World War II propaganda.

The Japanese told their citizens that American soldiers would kill the men, rape the women, and kill and eat the children.

[Ubergopher]

I know a couple Arab linguists who I trust, if y'all are that paranoid I can link it to 'em and see if the translations are accurate.

[Black.Ice]

Propaganda has always been an important part of a culture that's in a war or feels threatened. On a related note, I stumbled across this site a while ago, and it's got some cool pictures to old American propaganda: http://www.happydeathinc.com/propaganda/american.htm

[Icarus]

That article didn't give any credibility to the video. Another fishy thing is, palestinians actually have reasons to resist the zionist occupancy. Concrete, valid, reasons. Not "i wanna rule da worl cuz mickey mouse towd me too". If they were really trying to influence children, and if children actually understood anything or gave a crap, they could give them the real reasons for the anti-semitism.

My sister majored in middle eastern studies which she took a few years in arabic for, and she should be here in a couple minutes. Ill ask her opinion as to the authenticity as well.

[Toucan]

Yeah ok buddy, there is no one trying to brainwash children, there is no one using children as suicide bombers, there are no children that have been armed with assault rifles.

What world do you live in? Seems like a nice place, shame the rest of us don't live there to.

[Ubergopher]

Right, I just got word back from one of the linguists, he says its pretty much accurate, one or two minor differences, but nothing that detracts from the meaning. So yeah, this is real. I'm willing to bet a years worth of pay it is, and all you doubters are a bunch of paranoid twits.

[Lazere]

Still seems fishy to me... It's not child oriented enough... Just because what their saying and the subtitles match up doesn't mean it isn't fake.

[Ubergopher]

Still seems fishy to me... It's not child oriented enough..
How much time have YOU spent in the middle east? How much do you know of their culture from actual interaction with their children?

[Toucan]

It's not western child oriented enough
Fixed.

[Lazere]

Ok, got me there. But some of the things are westernized on the other hand. Some of the political jokes in there...

[Ubergopher]

Thanks for that fix Toucan. Its amazing how ignorant some people are. They try and proclaim themselves as being "enlightened" and having a better "multicultural view" than other people, yet they have spent more time in space than outside their country. Its annoying.

[ScottieIWU]

So yeah, this is real. I'm willing to bet a years worth of pay it is, and all you doubters are a bunch of paranoid twits.
Thanks for that fix Toucan. Its amazing how ignorant some people are. They try and proclaim themselves as being "enlightened" and having a better "multicultural view" than other people, yet they have spent more time in space than outside their country. Its annoying.Are you done on your soapbox or should I give you more time to preach?

I doubted because, well, I'd like proof before I condemn a group of people based solely on a YouTube video. Hearing some confirmation that the translations are correct makes me feel a little better, eh?

But yes, please do continue your condescension, I'm done.

[TheListener]

Listener: You have no clue at my full motivation for hating religion. Religion has caused more death and pain than any single dictator in history. At least with religion out of the way, people could stop hiding behind faith and give their true reasons for hating someone, or for starting war.

I recognize the fact that humans are violent, you will never hear me dispute that. What disgusts me is when people use religion as an excuse for terror tactics and murder. Religion is not made to inspire hate, it's meant to guide you to 'heaven' or to help you lead a 'moral' and fulfilling life.

When you use religion as your shield and sword instead of as guiding principles to lead a good life, you've crossed a boundary.

I don't care who I offend. If you can't deal with my opinion, you either need to grow thicker skin or go the fuck away.

And by the way, the KKK was started by religious men.

Well right now you're blaming the people who pervert religious text to their own base aims. You're not blaming religion, so why would you vent your hate at it? I mean, if these people were being true about what they were spiteful for it wouldn't make the crime any more unrealistic... I mean, Hitler professed hatred, the British Historian A.J.P Taylor once famously remarked that Mussolini's favourite word was 'battle', both were hardly religious men. Religion is often used as a pretext for violence, this is unequivocally wrong and of course I can't agree with it. But I can't agree with your hate of it.

Edit.

For the record. My Arabic is a bit shoddy but I picked up what she was saying, and it was most DEFINITELY about sacrifice in the face of the 'zionist invaders' and all that nonsense.

[Spartan-II]

Saying that I hated religion was a bit rash, but it is how I feel.

Without religion, none of this Jihad bullshit would be here right now. We would just have war, instead. War without pretext is much better than wars fought by men with bombs strapped to their chests, believing that 77 virgins await them in the afterlife.

If there is no institution of religion to be perverted, there would be no religious problems. I dislike religion for my own reasons, including the fact that I view it as a crutch for the weak.

I realize that what I said could have come across as biased and ignorant, but revealing all of my reasons for despising religion would fill a novel. Just know that most of my reasons are justifiable, and some are just plain gut feelings.

[TheListener]

Saying that I hated religion was a bit rash, but it is how I feel.

Without religion, none of this Jihad bullshit would be here right now. We would just have war, instead. War without pretext is much better than wars fought by men with bombs strapped to their chests, believing that 77 virgins await them in the afterlife.

If there is no institution of religion to be perverted, there would be no religious problems. I dislike religion for my own reasons, including the fact that I view it as a crutch for the weak.

I realize that what I said could have come across as biased and ignorant, but revealing all of my reasons for despising religion would fill a novel. Just know that most of my reasons are justifiable, and some are just plain gut feelings.

I guess I can agree with you in saying that when you use religion (something fueled by faith) you can garner more support, especially fearless support. When people are doing something bad but do so with the unwavering belief that they're RIGHT, that's the worst thing you can have

[Modred]

I found several pro-Israel sites that are blabbering on about this; they're just about all that pops up on the front page of a Google search. A more targeted search, specific to well established news sources, didn't fare as well.

As expected, FoxNews had the story (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,270457,00.html); however, targeted searches of CNN.com and BBC.co.uk returned no hits. Are they simply behind? Maybe actually verifying the source with someone who speaks the language before going ape-shit over it like FoxNews will? Let's watch and find out! If it's genuine, I'm sure it will show up in the next day or two.

[Zenox]

Oh hey remember me the only certified Arabic speaking Jerk in this forum? let me say once and for all IT IS REAL! we get these also on a station called AL MANAR run by Hizbollah, it's all true, kind of a legit way to teach/shove up head children about the enemys of islam,and another thing in lebanon alone there are more than 14 different sub religions spread over 10452 Km^2 all of which are trying to dominate the others reason not hate, it is the difference in ways of life, so don't go all:"OH religion is bad! it is the root of all EVOL!" that's ridiculous, middle eastern religions in fact respect most of the others opinions and moralities, but it's the difference in life patterns for example Muslims never show their wives to strangers instead the wife prepares coffee for instance and the husband brings it to the guest, to a Christian this is very awkward, and so many examples follow from druz to sinites, to Shiites, to maronites to catholics..
BTW i watched the whole thing the translation is correct, although the guy did make a few mistakes but they don't count, i know why are you finding it weird because it's all about leading the world.. well the thought behind this is that Muslims like many other religions have a duty of colonizing the earth(i quote from the Koran:"And no Muslim shall be lead unless by another Muslim..Each man shall take a first, a second, and a third wife..Let the The faith spread.."
it is a fact that this is faith spreading also exist for the others, but the thing is that Muslims take it to the point of we either rule or we die trying to take over, i find it to be rather sad.
END

[TheListener]

Okay, let's get some things straight from Zenox's post.

What he said was correct to some extent. As in any religion, Islam believes that it's followers have the duty to save the souls of non-Muslims by converting, educating, or reproducing if need be. However, of course, there are some crazies that take it to another level which includes forming para-military factions and blowing their perceived "enemies" to bits.

However, Muslims do NOT "take it to the point of 'we either rule or we die trying to take over'". Once again, you can't make gross generalisations, do you see the Muslims in France attacking store clerks wearing crosses in an attempt to 'take over'? NO. You don't you're being a fucking ignoramus rex. You cab say that some extremist Muslim groups try doing that, you can't even realistically apply it to most Muslim governments. Saudi Arabia is more than happy to supply the western world with millions of tonnes of oil. Iran is obviously under an extremist regime, you can apply it to Ahmadinejad, but you can't say the religion is one of conquering.


The fact is the religion has been around for CENTURIES and that all this anti-Muslim ethos has sprung up only since September 11th 2001. Don't you think there's something awry about that? That maybe you're projecting the events of the past half decade onto hundreds of years of history?

Yes.

END.

[Zenox]

It seems to me you haven't been long enough around Muslims, i have a Muslim Pal not once has he told me Dude you should convert, but i can't say he doesn't think of it, besides you have no clue about what's going on with the Muslims in France do you?

[TheListener]

I am a Muslim.
I live in France.


Fucktard. I think I know just a little bit more about the situation of the city that I've lived in for 4 years than you.

[Thedutchjelle]

That video was ..disturbing, whether it was real or not.

[Zeltaris]

You know, that part where the kid goes "AK-47" (I'm pretty sure I heard something sounding like Kalishnikov there, but then again it could just be the subtitles skewing my perception.) and Mickey mimics shooting one seems pretty real to me...

Ok, got me there. But some of the things are westernized on the other hand. Some of the political jokes in there...
Well yeah. It's dubbed by an organisation called PMW, which is based in the US. Doesn't do much for the credibility of the video, but doesn't detract from it either.


Zenox and Listener... stop for a second and chill. You're straddling the fence between debate and a flame war. <3

Now as to why there are some who doubt the authenticity of this, I wouldn't quite label it on ignorance. Sounds more like rational doubt to me. I mean, when I first saw the video, my impression was that it was a fake, mostly because I had no clue what they were saying, other than the subtitles. Of course, when you start picking out familiar words out of it, mainly names and other words that just aren't what you see in a kids TV show,like, you start doubting.
But really, coming from a radical group like Hamas, it's really not surprising. Problem is, since they're muslim, you can expect someone to come down with a swooping generalisation sooner or later and set the thread ablaze. w00t :/

[TheListener]

Zenox and Listener... stop for a second and chill. You're straddling the fence between debate and a flame war. <3


Yeah. Sorry, I realised that, it's just that his comment about me not understanding Islam in France had to be rebuked.

Anyway. I don't think there's any argument about the fact that this shit is FUBAR.

[EvilEmpire]

Omg we live in a modern world and these.. people brainwash and use propaganda to provoke small children to express political and religious beliefs, especially connected with ..war...
War sux.
And all religions are based on peace.. but these ppl want to make their children super-soldiers so "higher goals" are achieved.
Religion sux.
Politics sux.
Muslim extremists suck big time

[TheListener]

Omg we live in a modern world and these.. people brainwash and use propaganda to provoke small children to express political and religious beliefs, especially connected with ..war...
War sux.
And all religions are based on peace.. but these ppl want to make their children super-soldiers so "higher goals" are achieved.
Religion sux.
Politics sux.
Muslim extremists suck big time
All religion isn't based on peace, that's a gross generalization.

I'm not even going to bother taking you seriously if you're going to conduct an argument by just calling something 'sux'.

Politics doesn't 'sux' considering without it, you would probably still be a hunter-gatherer, reduced to communicating on a small-scale tribal level and having to stare at the same blank, clueless faces for your 25-year life span of a miserable fucking life.

I hate it when people say that things they don't understand "sux"

[GenocideAlive]

However, Muslims do NOT "take it to the point of 'we either rule or we die trying to take over'". Once again, you can't make gross generalisations, do you see the Muslims in France attacking store clerks wearing crosses in an attempt to 'take over'?
What were all those burning cars and looting stores about? I thought the Muslims were rioting all over France and completely fucking the place up, what happened to that? What about those Denmark cartoons that people were getting death threats about? How about all that shit in Iran about the 12 Imams? Shiites and Sunnies blowing each other up left and right in Iraq?

I'm all about peace, taking the high road, and all that crap, but the Muslims' track record in the past 20 years isn't exactly love and tolerance. For someone that went to a mosque and enjoyed the atmosphere there more than any other spiritual / religious gatherings attended in my life, I am wholly embarassed by Islam today. It has become a haven for fundamentalism and fanaticism.

[TheListener]

What were all those burning cars and looting stores about? I thought the Muslims were rioting all over France and completely fucking the place up, what happened to that? What about those Denmark cartoons that people were getting death threats about? How about all that shit in Iran about the 12 Imams? Shiites and Sunnies blowing each other up left and right in Iraq?

I'm all about peace, taking the high road, and all that crap, but the Muslims' track record in the past 20 years isn't exactly love and tolerance. For someone that went to a mosque and enjoyed the atmosphere there more than any other spiritual / religious gatherings attended in my life, I am wholly embarassed by Islam today. It has become a haven for fundamentalism and fanaticism.


They're not "Muslims" rioting all over France. They're just immigrant that happen to be from North Africa where a lot of Muslims reside. It's mostly Africans from Cote D'Ivoire and Arabs from Lebanon, Algeria, Morocco, etc. Don't make the mistake of linking Islam to it. It's just a bunch of angry kids who are tired of being treated as sub-human by the French government.

The cartoons in Denmark, though I don't agree on any level with the burning of Embassies in Syria and death threats, I can't respect the writers at all. Muslims are particularly sensitive of depiction of prophets, and it is in fact forbidden in the Qu'uran. Sure, it's about freedom of speech, but just because you have the right to do it doesn't make you right in doing it. I mean, for God's sake! It wasn't even funny!

Iran is fucked up. I'm not even going to even TRY to defend that fucked up place. Haven for loonies and kids who have been indoctrinated to the max.

The differences between Sunnis and Shiites are SO small that it's so incredibly dumb killing each other. Like really. They're both Muslim, let alone human, what right do they have in killing each other because one of them spends a longer time mourning the death of loved ones than the other. It's more an excuse for a class war, Sunnis are richer and the Shiites want more territory.


The representation of Islam has gone down the toilet, I'm sad to say. And what's worse is that it isn't even representation, because quite a large part of the Muslim community is buying into this "Us versus Them" mentality and creating even deeper fissures in today's society.


sighsighsigh

[GenocideAlive]

The cartoons in Denmark, though I don't agree on any level with the burning of Embassies in Syria and death threats, I can't respect the writers at all. Muslims are particularly sensitive of depiction of prophets, and it is in fact forbidden in the Qu'uran. Sure, it's about freedom of speech, but just because you have the right to do it doesn't make you right in doing it. I mean, for God's sake! It wasn't even funny!
I think the point of Free Speech is that you have the right to do it regardless of moral relativism. And BTW, those cartoons weren't meant to be funny; they were supposed to be a statement on warmongering Islamic extremism. And honestly, I think Islam's response was not altogether unexpected.

"What? We're gun-wielding fundamentalist fanatics? We'll kill you!"

[Zenox]

TheListener if you thought to any extent that i was insulting Islam i appologize but i wasn't, it just makes me angry that people don't live their lives to the religion that they clame to defend and follow, i'm generalizing and Quoting from Ghandi hwo said"give me Jesus Christ but not Christians" and i think that not one radical Musilm have ever read the whole Q'uran i've read it and not a single sura or AYE says to kill or to hurt people in the name of islam, and them claiming that their terrorist attacks are in the name of god and that this is the only way is what makes me sad, but as a religion Islam isn't that far away from Christianity and it has my respect.

[Black.Ice]

I'm going to avoid the Islam debate for a while, because that's another topic altogether I'd be happy to debate in a different threat.

But propaganda and cartoons have been linked for a very, very long time. I took a history of film class and we spent a few days discussing propaganda because there was so much of it. In cartoons however, starting back to the 1930's when "The Three Little Pigs" came out, it had propaganda. Sure, it wasn't about a war or anything like that, but it was still propaganda. It related to the great depression, and how to keep steadfast to survive in a time where resources were limited.

I don't want to dive into the specifics because I can't regurgitate all the stuff said in class with too much details. However, if you're truly interested, do a google saerch for "propaganda in cartoons" and you'll find a lot of information.

[Icarus]

How much time have YOU spent in the middle east? How much do you know of their culture from actual interaction with their children?

Oh, I see. Because children in the middle east are born of muslims and live in countries like iran, they all have this middle eastern gimmick which gives them an interest as well as a decent knowledge of middle eastern politics... of course. Those are quite the 8-year olds

[h0bgawblin]

Oh, I see. Because children in the middle east are born of muslims and live in countries like iran, they all have this middle eastern gimmick which gives them an interest as well as a decent knowledge of middle eastern politics... of course. Those are quite the 8-year olds

You would be suprised at how well 8 year olds can remember things like that. Especially when there is a reward/punishment system involved. That aside, the kids calling were 12, and I remember doing political debates at 12.

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

Eh religion, it plays a part, but its too convenient to be credited. Ok, I we all know what everyone's views are, but in this post, I'll be sympathetic and show what their view [the insurgencies'] of all this are.There is bigger equation in this war. It's difference thats that root of it and how much we don't understand, thats what mostly causes 'insurgencies', 'rebells', "Freedom Fighters" in there. This is almost what happened in Vietnam. We are fighting a guerrilla war and we also made a mistake once again. We came in their not knowing their religion, their customs, their language. In order to win these wars, we have to take the support of the population. Sounds like where not going to have a good start. Guerrillas are unable to hide and have the will to attack if they don't have the support from anyone else. When U.S. soldiers came into their country ignorant, they did a poor job communicating and gaining support.

Imagine you are a civilian in that country and you have all these tall guys wearing body armor and an automatic weapon yelling slowly at you (trying to communicate) and you don't know what the heck is happening. Hypothetically, they are also kicking your doors down looking for terrorist and when they kicked down your door, they are also showing their foot at you. In Islamic, it's rude to show the bottom of your foot at anyone. It might not be due religion, but again difference. Whether you walk weird, drink water the wrong way, or whatever, you could be the first guy to insult someone. That isn't helping. So you have marines yelling at you, disgracing you, and reeking havoc in your city. It's intimidating. The Marines might not be doing all this intentionally to piss anyone off, but we are losing the support of the people who live in those countries which some, are Islamic. So the "Freedom Fighters", which they don't refer themselves as terrorist, have the favor of their population.

And unlike us, every time we take a territory, how many people we killed and how much we lost, how much damage we do to their cities, we take that all into account and decide if we are actually winning or not. To the insurgencies, land, deaths, doesn't matter. As long as they lived another day to keep fighting, they are winning. And that's what they are doing here, they are trying to recruit, make it harder for us to gain support and so they can continue fighting another day; winning.

How has been coming out of their lately? Pictures of nude prisoners with U.S. hecks, racism, torture, etc... they take all that and that's what they perceive us. That's what's feeding to all these activities or insurgencies there.

When we hear an announcement of people are spreading hate to the Americans, Christians, etc... - to them, it could be a chance for a rising to end oppression.

[TheListener]

"What? We're gun-wielding fundamentalist fanatics? We'll kill you!"

lmao lmao lmao lmao!

TheListener if you thought to any extent that i was insulting Islam i appologize but i wasn't, it just makes me angry that people don't live their lives to the religion that they clame to defend and follow, i'm generalizing and Quoting from Ghandi hwo said"give me Jesus Christ but not Christians" and i think that not one radical Musilm have ever read the whole Q'uran i've read it and not a single sura or AYE says to kill or to hurt people in the name of islam, and them claiming that their terrorist attacks are in the name of god and that this is the only way is what makes me sad, but as a religion Islam isn't that far away from Christianity and it has my respect.

Sorry if I misinterpreted man. However, there are many suras that can be misinterpreted. Go to urbandictionary and search Islam, I remember seeing a long list there.