SCII Superweapons

[ZergSwarms]

We all know Terrans have access to one thing that can be considered a super weapon. This is the Nuclear Missile. I think the Zerg and Protoss should also be granted a super weapon. For the Protoss, maybe a huge Psy Storm that has a considerable range, and can damage structures. For Zerg, I have a few suggestions. Maybe an infested nuke that spreads Zerg Creep over the target area, infesting all in its path. Or maybe something less destructive, like a Zerg evolution that allows 2 units to hatch from each egg for...say 5 mins, and it takes maybe 15 mins to re-research it. Of course, the height of the tech tree would have to be reached first. Perhaps it could be researched from the Hive? (4x Lings and Scourge, no augmentation to Ultras, as that would be rigged.) For this to work though, the Terran Nuke would need to do a lot more damage, as well a MUCH LARGER range. I am fully aware that this would probably disrupt the genuine balance of Starcraft, but it's just something to think over and consider.

[BlackDefiler]

Not a bad idea, but it wouldn't be that easy to make, considering how difficult it is to pull off a nuke strike well - you need a ghost or two and some hc micro skills to nuke a non-noob player - so the other races' superweapons would have to get a new unit that is needed to make them work - or some other extra difficulty in their use to make them harder to pull off.

Besides the best part of SC is that all races are unique, so the answer to the terran superweapon doesn't necessairily have to be another superweapon.

Apart from all that, the zerg ability of temporary birthrate boost sounds really neat :)

[Borgorb]

mabe 4 protoss if u hav a group of 12 templars u can pull off a huge psi explosion that uses all energy and shields of the temps and is equivilant to half a nuke it has to be researched and costs 500mins/500gas

[Hyperion]

Well....I don't think the Nuke is the Terran's super weapon is the nuke...seeing that a nuke is Rarely used....and most of the time fails...as for the SUPER WEAPON OF EACH RACE....I believe each race IS the super weapon...for example the Zerg's super weapon would be the ability to Replenish it's army immediately...

[Shortyland05]

hmm, if Zerg and Protoss don't have 'superweapons' I wonder how it IS balanced then...

please note that Starcraft ISNT Command and Conquer, And I would like it to stay that way...

[Ktan]

On thing I love about SC is that there is NO superweapon or super unit. It helps differentiate it from C&C and, more recently, DoW and Supreme Commander, amongst many others.

[MidnightGladius]

Well, I have to point out that no quasi-decent player will ever let you win the game with superweapons in C&C. :P Tank masses FTW!

Anyways, if you don't consider 6 control groups of 3/3 ultra/crax under dark swarm to be a superweapon, I don't know what is :)

[Ktan]

Well, I have to point out that no quasi-decent player will ever let you win the game with superweapons in C&C. :P Tank masses FTW!


You are correct, much like in DoW, not many games will reach Tier 4, but it's the principle ;p

[Shortyland05]

thats one annoying thing about DoW online, its always who builds the fastest who wins :(. I like games where it flows out...

[Kawagata]

wow how awkward timing. just incorporated this anyways.

-arbiter
---50 supply
---15 minutes charge up then everything is destroyed. Just like exodia!!

[Shortyland05]

heh, sorry man... the names taken ;)

[Kawagata]

ya forgot to change the name but the concept is still there no? Basically a flag ship that displays flag ship has arrived to all players. Then when the player targets anything with the flagship then the 15 minute wait begins and the flagship is immobile.

[bobboy]

It would have to have a HUGE amount of health AND armor. Otherwise, any half-decent player could take it out in the 15 minutes it has to wait. Unless you mean you can target from your own base, which would cause much panic. Especially if it says stuff like the nuke message. Heh.

[Kawagata]

It would have to have a HUGE amount of health AND armor. Otherwise, any half-decent player could take it out in the 15 minutes it has to wait. Unless you mean you can target from your own base, which would cause much panic. Especially if it says stuff like the nuke message. Heh.
ya i hope blizzard make it send a nuke like message if they plan to do this. cuz the protoss were able to "cleanse" a whole planet instantly and turn it into the husk of a former lush planet right? yep shot at anywhere. basically a giant flagship rains its powa.

[MidnightGladius]

Supposedly, only Executors' flagships (Gantrithor being the only named one that I know of) have the world-burning device. Then again, weren't you an Executor for the P campaigns? How come you never see your own Super-Carrier? :/

[Ktan]

I think 'seeing yourself' would distract from the story. It seems you would be commanding from your carrier. When you 'saw yourself' in Tiberium Sun, as Slavic or as McNeil in the Kodiak, it was a little abstract and you didn't 'feel' like the characters you were supposed to be.

One point Geckat made on SC.org is that one difference between SC and WC III is that you are addressed directly in SC, wheras, in WarCraft, he said you just felt like a guy with a pointer. The fact you never actually appear really cements that you are the Magistrate, Cerebrate or Executor.

I've heard in one of the books it was written that Artanis was the 'executor' in SC vanilla, but I'm unsure if such a statement is canon.

[Kawagata]

Supposedly, only Executors' flagships (Gantrithor being the only named one that I know of) have the world-burning device. Then again, weren't you an Executor for the P campaigns? How come you never see your own Super-Carrier? :/
and that's why they should put them in SC2!!
@ktan no the difference between sc and w3 is w3 is 3d. now stop poking me.

[Ktan]

@ktan no the difference between sc and w3 is w3 is 3d. now stop poking me.

No offence, but there is one game out of those two that you have definitely not played then.

[Kawagata]

No offence, but there is something you're missing: humour.
Or you haven't tried clicking Artanis a few times. Then you'll get the joke.

Oh!! I forgot to add. Starcraft is more sophisticated

[Ktan]

>.<

Doh.

I kinda jump on anti WC sentiment quite quickly sometimes. Not because I like WC particularly, just because I try not to be pro SC at the expense of other Blizzard games :P

[Kawagata]

lol glad you got it. i have nothing against WC

[Ktan]

:tup:

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

[Giantfish]

The nukes in Starcraft are tactical nukes. They're suppose to punch a nasty hole in the enemy, not obliterate them. If any real superweapons were made, I'd rather have them not be buildable (at least in melee). It would be good for the campaign and for ums, but for regular play, it would have to balanced with huge set backs (more than the current tactical nukes).

[Oldmano]

I have an idea for a Protoss "super weapon" like device, let's say they are able to build a Unit called "The Void Bringer" (generic name, I know).

Race- Protoss
Health Points- 500
Psi Shielding- 300
Psi- 0
Speed- About that of an arbiter
Ground Damage- Depends (Explained below)
Air Damage0- 32 (Up to a possible of 3 upgrades each adding 2)
Armour- 2 (Up to a possible of 3 upgrades each adding 1)
Psi Armour- 1 (Up to a possible of 3 upgrades each adding 1)
Ground Range- 0
air Range- About that of a wraith
Cost- Minerals- 1250
Vespene Gas- 1650
Specific upgrades- Photon expansion Chamber
Population cost- 30




Unit Analysis- The most powerful unit in the Protoss military, based directly off formerly discovered Xel Naga designs. It uses a photon amplified laser as it's ground attack, which can melt even the heavy husks of the Ultralisks as well as Seige Tanks. Any ground unit must be directly situated directly under a Void Bringer for it to receive damage, the damage is comparable to that of a constant irradiation. The Void Bringer's air attack is based off Protoss scout anti-matter missiles, however they travel faster and explode with more force, unlike the Scout a Void Bringer can fire from all around it as it has 4 firing ports as opposed to 1. It is shaped much like "Flying Saucers" which were often reported in the times Humanity had not perfected interstellar travel. A Void Bringer is immensely large (larger that a Battle Cruiser and a Carrier combined. It's unit specific upgrade adds a Photon particle expansion chamber, causing the damage radius of the beam to double in size, allowing it to more effectively engage ground units.

[ChimTheGrim21]

I think you can have any SUPERweapon abilities in the campaign mode for sure. Add extra races in the campaign as well--just don't put any of that in the online unless it's balanced out for each race.

[Tenebrae]

Heh,

I actually had an idea for true capitol ships for Starcraft that each sported a super weapon. These ships were meant to be huge in comparison to everything else and fly at higher orbit, thus appearing higher then the other flying units.

They each had a decent air attack since air units were the only unit capable of stopping them with the exception of one orbital defense unit each race got that specialized in attacking air. The ships ground attacks were very weak and more so an area of effect damage since pinpointing a moving target from orbit would be next to impossible.

Each super weapon took time to charge and had to be used when the shadow of the ship was directly over the base. The unit wouldn't be over the base in appearance but would in retrospect seeing as how it's in orbit...hence the shadow casted upon the base. If the enemy didn't take the ship down via air or ground orbital defense...the super weapon went off.

Terrans: Nuclear Strike (Bought 10 nukes)
Protoss: A more condensed precise version of the beam cannon they used to purify the Terran worlds of the Zerg.
Zerg: A rain of spores that saturated the soil making way for infestation. Upon complete saturation seed spores were dropped which began to infest the structures as tiny broodling-like creatures erupt from the infested soil and ravenously seek out all creatures living to consume. These creatures are limited to the creep and die in a short time if there's no food around to replenish their health.

Terran's ability to lift their ships off wouldn't prove very effective seeing as how these ships have the cappability of attacking air units directly with a decent attack. It would all boil down to if you can destroy the ship before the end...or if you could evacuate in time.

[TitanWing]

In my opinion, nukes don't do enough damage to be considered superweapons. They kill what...10-20 units on average? That's more like an average bomb, every modern military in the world today has massive arsenals of such 'superweapons'.

Grenades, anyone?

[Ktan]

In most strategy games, you find weapons are ridiculously scaled down. Modern day Mortars, for example, have roughly 100 metre killzone. In DoW and StarCraft, you're lucky if your artillery has a 5 metre killzone.

In some ways, StarCraft does have some elements of modern warfare, with high powered weapons but relatively weak units in terms of HP.

[Maegtelluma]

I think super-weapons are a no. They do it in SupCom and it works because of the scale of the armies, but I don't see that in Starcraft. Effective nuclear strikes are extremely difficult to pull off against good players, and I would hardly call it a super weapon. If you're playing someone that's not good, a nydus rush or a bunch of reavers in their base (via arbiter) is more effective than a nuke anyway.

[Defector]

... I thought BattleCruisers, Carriers, and Ultras were Super weapons...

A nuke is a nuke. Maybe Toss can glass a planet, but Zerg are swarmers, not a super unit race. Each race in SC should be individual in as many ways as possible. Unlike War3, each race should not just have a counterpart to each other- that is not the SC balance.

I dont want the C&C3 ID4 super saucer nuke thingy.

[TitanWing]

If there's to be superweapons, it should be a setting that can be turned on or off and not every race should have similar weapons. I hate how some games just change a faction's name and color and call it a new race. SC is unique because the races share very little other than the fact that they need gas and minerals.

Ultralisks are only slightly better than tanks (completely standard unit), not even CLOSE to a superweapon. BCs and Carriers are capital ships, not superweapons. If you see one carrier coming toward your tank/gol/vult army, are you gonna panic and go: WTFX NOT A CARRIER! MUST MOVE ALL UNITS TO BASE! The closest thing to a superweapon in SC is the nuke, but it still doesn't pass because of it's rarity and small chance of success/relatively small damage (compared to other games' superweapons.

[10thNazgul]

And if any race could have a pair of "superweapons"?
Terran have nukes.
Could be nice if in the "ballistic missile silo" you could chose to build a nuclear missile or a missile with chemical warhead, that beside a small direct damage, casts irradiate on any unit in the blast radius

Other races "superweapons" could be:
For Protoss could be a beam from an orbiting flagship. The beam have to last several second and deliver some damage/sec. It's less powerful than a nuke and with less range, but could be slowly moved over the terrain until is fired (as the sauron eye in Battle for Middle Earth, if you know).
The second protoss superweapon could be a "superdefence": they could cast a dome shield around all pylons. each dome has a certain amount of shield points that decays in max 30 sec (and faster if substain enemy fire).
Friendly units are immune to any ranged attack under the dome, and enemy ground units can't pass under the dome until it's raised.

Zerg could have a Creep seed that, fired by some new structure (or by the Hive itself) that causes some damage at the target and splash creep and ensnare all around the attack point.
If the targeted point isn't an enemy unit or building, but a free spot, a creep colony emerges (with perhaps some larvas) and could be used to gain expansion or similar.
The second "superweapon" for Zerg could be a "superpower": a sort o bloodlust frenzy that increase the firerate of the entire swarm for 15-20 sec.

[TitanWing]

Now we're just turning SC into BFME II. What you're proposing is nothing short of the spells from that game, you mentioned powers very similiar to "Rallying Call" and "Eye of Sauron" (that damages). I don't want my army being obliterated by some noob who managed to sqeak out an "Orbital Death Ray" before I could completely wipe him out. -_-

[Balance]

Sounds familiar to Red Alert's Nuclear Blast (nuke), Kirov Airship (moving ray beam and only attacking exactly downward), and Iron Curtain (protection for base).

Can we make a few NEVER BEFORE THOUGHT OF ABILITIES??? Now THAT would be spectacular, and more fitting for a game like SCII.

[TitanWing]

I agree with you there, Balance.

[Dayoh]

I dont think there is a need, SC already has "super weapons".

Terran Nuke
Protoss carrier
Ultralisk (?)

Thats what i think the "Super Weapons", are in SC.

[DarkMirror]

Well, now they have nehanced nukes, Planet cracker lasers, and zerg are as swarmy.

[Borgorb]

This exists

protoss mothership
u can only hav 1 at a time
costs a lot of resources
can make a black hole to kill air units
can use that planet cracker laser

if that isnt a superweapon then wat is

btw hav u seen the new nuke target?Its really cool

[Hasharin]

yeh, that looked cool.

i saw the gameplay vids, it looked cool. I wonder if the zerg wil get somw kind of super weapon...the vids focused more on toss + terrans.

[DarkMirror]

The zerg have overwhelming numbers. That has, and always will be, thier super power. If you look at it, thye have never had a need for a "creep canon" or anything else like that. Thats why thier called "the swarm".

[TitanWing]

I don't like the new nuke target. It's so fucking huge any NON-idoit will be a mile away before it lands. The Terran AI was soooo stupid in that level. The 3rd nuke ontop the Terran army was unneccesary.

[DarkMirror]

Yes, but it looked cool.
Please Note that the nuke seemed to drop faster, and it seemed to do more damage(to me, at least). They may have also upgraded the ghosts, so as to make them tougher to kill.

[TitanWing]

Hm...that's true.

Protoss units take way to long to kill, BY TERRANS. Terran's had the best firepower in SC1 and they hardly can put a dent in the Toss.

[kozmokilla]

The prottos have a weapon-mind control.
The Zerg have a weapon- Infesting

[TitanWing]

The Protoss have a weapon-invicible units.

[Hasharin]

LIVE FOR THE SWARM!!!!

I think that the zerg should have something that makes them more swarmy-er for maybe a minute or somwthing.

[Basan]

... The 3rd nuke ontop the Terran army was unneccesary.

If you haven't noticed in the footage the Ghosts that decloacked were white and not red as the other Terran troops in the aimed range were. Perhaps that explains it. ;)

And as 'superweapons' I trust that they are betting a lot in teleporting troops closer to combat as somewhat being it. I've seen the Phase Shift to do so for 'Toss troops and the possibly evolved Nydus Canal (aka that sand worm) being used for Zerg's in a similar manner. And in the current Blizz's entering page (http://www.blizzard.com/index2.shtml) announcing the game you can spot a gate that awfully looks like a one from the SG-1 series, so I can almost bet that quick unit deployments are an important part of SC2's gameplay.

[TitanWing]

I think it had more to do with clearing out the armies to make room for GG at the end. ;)

[BlackDefiler]

The nydus worms looked f*cking awesome! Now with the fast deployment and no need for creep they can finally be used offencively against toss and terran.

The gate on the screen can be a simple exit of a spacecraft.

[Protogod]

Protoss Mothership = new superweapon. It's in the game too.

[TitanWing]

Quite true. I classify it as a superweapon.

[Oldmano]

Wow, I can't believe how similiar the Protoss "Mother ship" is, to my original "Void Bringer" idea (displayed earlier in thread).

[Inmate626]

How about making the creep extremely hazardous to opposing forces? It would be an acid attack, a-la Aliens. Not an offensive super-weapon, but extremely valuable for base defense, one weak point for the Zerg.

Maybe it would be too powerful, allowing the Zerg to completely dedicate their forces to offense, knowing they had a devastating defense watching over their home.

[Modred]

How about making the creep extremely hazardous to opposing forces? It would be an acid attack, a-la Aliens. Not an offensive super-weapon, but extremely valuable for base defense, one weak point for the Zerg.

Maybe it would be too powerful, allowing the Zerg to completely dedicate their forces to offense, knowing they had a devastating defense watching over their home.

It could be something similar to adding spikes to your buildings as Orcs in WarIII. Not incredibly damaging, and not enough to save your base from a real attack, but a slight assistance in defense.

If you haven't noticed in the footage the Ghosts that decloacked were white and not red as the other Terran troops in the aimed range were. Perhaps that explains it. ;)

And as 'superweapons' I trust that they are betting a lot in teleporting troops closer to combat as somewhat being it. I've seen the Phase Shift to do so for 'Toss troops and the possibly evolved Nydus Canal (aka that sand worm) being used for Zerg's in a similar manner. And in the current Blizz's entering page (http://www.blizzard.com/index2.shtml) announcing the game you can spot a gate that awfully looks like a one from the SG-1 series, so I can almost bet that quick unit deployments are an important part of SC2's gameplay.

On the gate issue, it appears that Gateways can be opened up into a Warp Gate, and thus you can actually bring in your new units any where in the power grid. It seems there would need to be some limitation on transforming gateways to warp gates, or else you would pull the transformation on as many gates as possible, as quickly as possible. Maybe it's just expensive.

[Giantfish]

Or maybe you can't build units while it's a warp gate. That would balance things out.

[BlackDefiler]

One thing I don't get, is how did the zeals, stalkers and the mothership warp in so fast? I hope that's not how it's gonna be in the actual game.

[TitanWing]

My theory is that once Protoss units are trained, you pick any location under a psi field to bring them in. Kind of like reserve troops or the SW: Empire at War reinforcements system.

Mothership on the other hand, was most likely made via triggers. ;)

[Mr.Bad]

It didn't seem like it, but I geuss it is quite possible. But keep in mind that all the other units were created in the same way, and that the cursor did seem to select things, so it wasn't much of a "create unit at location" trigger. But then again, with the new editor, that would be quite possible. Most likely.

[JarquaFelmu]

Yeah, who knows what that editor will let us do, methinks that we will have the same power in the editor as what War3's editor did for it. Mp3's in maps anyone? :)

[Borgorb]

the mothership is an army mort than a unit and watch how it enters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V0cL7ofmwA
its like its being downloaded

[BlackDefiler]

The SC editor always let you embed mp3s in maps.

[Basan]

The SC editor always let you embed mp3s in maps.

No, it hasn't. And if you mean to put'em in maps by disguising their file types to *.wav's it may be done although they won't work when played. :P

[MidnightGladius]

Meh, as long as they keep Dark Swarm or something fairly similar, I'll be happy.

[Ahzz]

they wont... DS is a super weapon, so is psionic storm. They gotta keep those all or remove em all.