SC2 should keep balance!!!

[BlackDefiler]

While reading through the posts in many threads regarding peoples' ideas about contents of SC2 I found, that many just don't seem to care about what these radical new extras would do to the gameplay. I thought about making this thread for those who agree that the real power of SC lies in it's balance and simplicy.

I for one would love to see SC2 keep all the fundamental parts of SC intact, and only boast with maybe better graphics (not rotateable 3D cameras, cause those ruin a strategy game for good) just some higher resolution and better unit and terrain textures. I'm a bit afraid of the new race idea as well, but I guess Blizzard could assimilate it well if they tried. Maybe one or two new units for all races like they did in BW.
(And not like many replies in threads talking about cloaked homing nukes and super-battlecruisers with trans-dimentional singularity blasters which randomly open microscopic black holes in hyperspace and consume half of the map and stuff like that.)

I guess the gameplay itself should be left alone as much as possible, so there can be no damage done to it.

[DoctorZettabyte]

Maybe add a few tilesets, and make a new storyline, but yeah...keep SC1 fundamentals in SCII.

-DocTera

[Hyperion]

Starcraft became this great mainly because of the RACE BALANCE....which is REALLYYYYYY Hard to do...so it's 100% Sure that they will try to keep the balance...and there is a 100% chance that they would have to do Trial and Error....if Blizzard already started SC2 there is a chance that they were already doing this a long time ago...just like SC1 before they released it they took their time polishing their precious SC1....because CnC basically pwned all games before Blizzard stepped in....

[ChimTheGrim21]

I heard a rumor that there would be 4 races in SC2, but for me that just doesn't make sense. Warcraft II had 2 races, Starcraft had 3, then Warcraft III had 4. It would only make sense in my mind that Starcraft II would then have 5 races. Maybe it all just so happened to play out that way, but in my mind it makes sense. Blizzard, if they are adding any races to SC2, should make the number 5. That said, I would be perfectly fine with 3 races.

[Shortyland05]

:o, No rotatable camera? nooooooo!

why would it ruin the strategy? if ya don't like the twisty camera... just dont use it. its that simple...

[BlackDefiler]

It has the habit of confusing you in the most crucial moments of the game.

[Shortyland05]

... thats what the default view is for...
duh...

[Ktan]

It has the habit of confusing you in the most crucial moments of the game.

I can't for the life of me think where a 3-D camera has somehow posed a situation where I have been confused by the camera. Even in DoW, where zoom is mapped to the mouse wheel, it has never caused a problem. It would only cause a problem if it was implemented like Empire at War's BattleCam(TM). However, that is only used for aestetic purposes and is only in use when explicitly activated.

[BlackDefiler]

Well, sometimes after a few rotations I found myself sending some units the wrong way both in WC3 and Stronghold legends. Maybe it's just me then. :P

[Borgorb]

thats b caus u dont look ath the mini-map XD
the camera thing is cool and allows u to have a bit of fun with prespective in battles or defense, u can view it from one armyies perspective or another or u can be looking at it between the two forces

i still think the hybrids should become a usable race and not too many unit changes to the existing races

[BlackDefiler]

i still think the hybrids should become a usable race and not too many unit changes to the existing races


I was thinking about the new race idea myself. What if the Hybrids or Xel'naga or whatever will be like a common enemy for every race in the campaign mode, and their units would be strong like hell, but they wouldn't be playable. Like the Terrans in Ground Control. That way we can still get some cool storyline with the new race like everyone wants, but the multiplayer mode wouldn't face the issues a new races' integration would mean.

PS: How do you Quote with the other members name next to the Quote word?

[Shortyland05]

I just don't do it cause im lazy :P

[QUOTE]Well, sometimes after a few rotations I found myself sending some units the wrong way both in WC3 and Stronghold legends. Maybe it's just me then.

well then Blizzard should put in a default view button then :)

[Hyperion]

The Xel'Naga might not even appear in SC2....only the Hybrids might appear....the story could go like this....the Hybrids will DEFINITELY be a stronger race then any of them...and poses a threat to the Zerg (Kerrigan), Protoss and the Terran...in which results in a Alliance...and since the Hybrids are scattered in a LOT OF PLANETS......and thus ending the SC2 in which the Alliance is in the brink of being decimated by the Hybrids.....and there will be a ending cinematic on a other place in which maybe a vessel or something comes out and watches on them fight...then SC2 Expansion comes out in which the Xel Naga come out and help in the war against the Hybrids...

[BlackDefiler]

That would actually be a good story! Although a little predictable apart from the showing up of the Xel'naga at the end, and their role in an expension.

[Borgorb]

duran is working for a "higher order" than kerrigan
im thinking the only thin "higher" than the zerg that occupy the majority of the galaxy are the Xel'Naga i mean who else could he work 4?
the xel'naga wont become a new race because they were wiped out (to the best of our knowledge) by the zerg
the hybrids on the other hand are being mass produced ans cloned from the dna of zerg and protoss to creat the ultimate race which is what the xel'naga wanted to do all along
the ballance will be kept the same because even when the zerg are the strongest force in the galaxy they are still beatable in multiplay games as are the terran and protoss therefore blizz wil make them so they are not uber powerful

[ChimTheGrim21]

I remember reading one of the Starcraft books a couple years ago, and at the end of the story some sort of Xel'Naga appeared. I bet in Starcraft2 that the Xel'Naga will be in there someway or another.

I think they should make it just like they did Warcraft III in terms of race management. Keep the 3 original races from Starcraft in Starcraft2 for battle.net, then add 3 or 4 races to the campaign missions for fun. Remember in Warcraft III they had the Demons, High Elves, and many other races that weren't playble. Then they also had playable races such as the Fel Orcs, Blood Elves, Draenei, and Naga, but none of these races were playable on battle.net which was probabally a good thing for the sake of balance.

[Hyperion]

duran is working for a "higher order" than kerrigan
im thinking the only thin "higher" than the zerg that occupy the majority of the galaxy are the Xel'Naga i mean who else could he work 4?
the xel'naga wont become a new race because they were wiped out (to the best of our knowledge) by the zerg
the hybrids on the other hand are being mass produced ans cloned from the dna of zerg and protoss to creat the ultimate race which is what the xel'naga wanted to do all along
the ballance will be kept the same because even when the zerg are the strongest force in the galaxy they are still beatable in multiplay games as are the terran and protoss therefore blizz wil make them so they are not uber powerful


Actually....no...the Xel'naga consider themselves PERFECT...so seeing themselves perfect....they took upon the "White Man's Burden" which I really don't need to explain....they had several species to "Perfect" or rather to Evolve. But it all ended in failure....then one day(or something like that) they saw a tribe known as the Protoss...who displayed Purity of Form, amazing Strength and Speed....they cared for the Protoss secretly until they decided they were ready to reveal themselves to the Protoss....they landed on Aiur...which was marked by a Temple...the Protoss learned much about the Xel'naga...and the Xel'naga worked to unify them...but splits in the tribes occurred....the Xel'naga knew that they pushed the Protoss too far...disappointed by their failure....they left Aiur...the Protoss had just developed space flight..and saw the "retreat" of the Xel'naga as betrayal...and they attacked them....but the Majority was safe. And the Zerg's story is that, since the Xel'Naga's failure with the Purity of Form of the Protoss...they sought out Purity of Essence. They settled on a Planet called, no not Char....Zerus...they chose a larvae creature known as the Zerg...the Xel'Naga evolved them. Which took on Parasitic ways, infesting/melding with any living thing it touches. They created the OVERMIND as a way to watch over the swarm and to centralize intelligence , seeing their mistake with the Protoss. But the Overmind had plans to destroy the Xel'Naga and spread all over the Galaxy. A surprise attack was launched on the Xel'Naga almost wiping them all out. Some escaped...but there survival rate is Unknown.



There's the story ok...but it is not sure if they were just Expeditionary Vessles, or their entire race. But it is highly unlikely to be their entire race.:)

[BlackDefiler]

Well, if I can recall from the manual, the Xel'naga were living on huge world-ships. Wich for me meant, that they literally lived in space onboard these ships and not on planets. From this perspective, it was their whole race, or the most of it anyway. The book states somewhere (at least in Hungarian interpretion, as I read it) the extinction of the Xel'naga.

Further more, just think it through racionally. The game already has the Protoss as the highly advanced race. Bringing in another, even more highly advanced race would pretty much cripple the role of the Protoss in the SC universe.

[Hyperion]

They were on huge world ships!?!? WTF anything that big could still move?!??

[BlackDefiler]

The term "world-ship" can refer to a city sized ship maybe.

[B.A.Baracus]

I don't see the point in this thread- who doesn't want balance?
I wonder if making startcraft 3-D will play into account balance wise, such as certain sloped landscapes and what not making CC units like zergling's harder to get into melee. I'm interested to see how they will play this off, if sc2 is ever coming out.
I've also never seen an RTS with flying units and graphics like DoW, I'd probably have an orgasm. Id go grab supreme commander, but it sucks.

[Borgorb]

Hypreion the reason duran us working for them is because the xel naga were almost completely wiped outand are to weak to steal some bloodthirsty lings or some hundred year old zealots so they needed someone to do it for them, my guess is that once duran gets the the hybrids just right he will then be killed by his own creations as ordered by th xel naga
now they have "purity" of both "form" and "essence" the will once again seek to control the universe

[ChimTheGrim21]

I think the purpose of the thread is to institute the notion that SC2 doesn't need 6 races and more explosive mega-weapons, etc...

By adding too much, you do indeed rade balance. The main reason SC1 is so well balanced is because the game has a simple set of units and it all meshes well for each race.

[BlackDefiler]

protoss were made by xelnaga also
if SC2 doesnt change dramitically what makes it different from a SC expansion
to expand the races
terran - they get unit addons the ability to change weapons and armor, its cheaper and faster than other races but weaker. it gives the terran ability to adapt
the add-on usually makes unit slighty stronger also

zerg - have an evolution where they evolve. zergs can choose to evolve to what would have been a hero unit or a new unit. the unit thats a copy of a hero gains armor advangte and is more likely stronger but new unit can have better attack and maybe abilities. also theres new upgrades
middle in cost though gas is used more

protoss - after the protoss saw what tassdar did they started to train their warriors in both side combining there powers. even a little from other side goes a long way. there techology has been changed a little due to breakthroughs with xel naga tech but mainly for robotics they can also now merge units like a scout with a zealot in the idea the zealot is focusing his energies into the scout.
its more expensive than other races and takes longer
also gathering upgrades that can change amounts gathered

He was banned from the site (I don't know why nor do I care) and asked me in a pm to put this here. It doesn't contain any unacceptable content, so I decided to post it. This is bloodbanes' idea.

[Shortyland05]

why did Bloodbane get banned, cause he's been pming me as well... and honestly I don't care about his opinion since he got banned...

he should of been more carefull

[Hyperion]

Hypreion the reason duran us working for them is because the xel naga were almost completely wiped outand are to weak to steal some bloodthirsty lings or some hundred year old zealots so they needed someone to do it for them, my guess is that once duran gets the the hybrids just right he will then be killed by his own creations as ordered by th xel naga
now they have "purity" of both "form" and "essence" the will once again seek to control the universe

NOBODY knows who Duran is working for...and he said that the Hybrids are a Race of his Masters which he is "creating"...but the Xel'Naga are Neither Zerg or Protoss....and the Xel'Naga doesn't have the agenda of Controlling the Universe....they were there to achieve the "Perfection" of other races....which they always "failed"(or so they think) to do

[Defector]

It makes sense, tho; Duran working for the XelNaga, compiling their third and final installation at perfecting a race. But i Cannot comprehend how a toss/zerg race would compliment the game. The race would have to be entirely organic, right? like the zerg?

Maybe We should take some ques from War3:
Alliance- basically terran
horde- basically toss+terran design
scourge- zerg+toss bulding
Night Elf- Inviso terran/toss combo/unique
Naga- water Dependant neutrals...

So if I had to guess, I would Say that the Dark Templars Might become a Race. Maybe redistributing toss into Two Races with a bunch of new Units would be best? hopefully DT are only cloaked at night or somehting...

I kinda hope Hybrids dont make hte cut. Zerg rule as is.

I would be perfectly content wiht just the OG 3 making a comeback for Multiplayer.

[Freezingfire]

I haven't read all of the threat, but if you don't change a thing. Why make SC2? Why not make another expansion...
If you're making something new, things have to be added for variety, and change. And no, just making it 3d is *not* an excuse to just make a new game.

[King_Critter]

One thing that I've never heard anyone talk about, but is a distinct possibility, is a brand new race. I mean, look at star wars. They've got... like... a couple hundred different species. I'm sure Blizzard can come up with something original. :P

For example (and I'm just tossing this out here off the top of my head) maybe there's some race that, while relativity technologically inferior, stumbles upon those afore-mentioned Xel'naga world ships. I dunno. Something like that? :P

They were on huge world ships!?!? WTF anything that big could still move?!??

Death Star. :P

[Hyperion]

Well...on topic....if SC2 will remain balance...um...it would be a little harder...due to a new race...and new units...and BTW SC2 will definitely have the HYBRIDS WHICH CAN KILL EVERYTHING....or something close....

[Shortyland05]

well obviously, Blizzard would put in new units for toss, zerg and terran that could counter the hybrids units...

will they?

[ChimTheGrim21]

I think SC2 is Blizzard's chance to make Video games a more mainstream televised media in America. Imagine Starcraft 2 matches on ESPN 8 (The Ocho). It's pure gaming bliss.

[bloodbane]

Duran is an XEL NAGA or XELNAGA ARE terrans THEN HE is a xelnaga/zerg hybrid
hybrids will not be that strong they will be having strengths of each zerg and protoss but and they lack numbers because of that the zerg part might see need to evolve a race thats when theres going to be issues BEGIN duran is assumbly different from his masters which are xel naga, hybrid, or xelnaga hybrid.

[Ktan]

There is no proof that Duran is Xel'Nagan.

Bloodbane, you need to restructure what you are saying, it's nigh on impossible to decipher.

[Hyperion]

BLOODBANE HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO KEEP ON SENDING ME MESSAGES!!! JUST LISTEN TO Ktan!!! WE DONT KNOW IF DURAN IS A XEL'NAGA AND THE ZERG AND PROTOSS WERE NOT CREATED BY THE XEL'NAGA!!! THEY WERE EVOLVED!!!!!!!! THEY ALREADY EXISTED!!!

[Sully907]

It would be hard to balance 4 races,but blizzard could figure it out with enough patches,just like BW.

[Shortyland05]

I hope they dont do mirror balancing like they did in WC3

[bloodbane]

actually the protoss and zerg were creatures but the xel naga took them and prefected them and GAVE THEM the names ZERG AND PROTOSS THUS THE XEL NAGA MADE THE ZERG AND PROTOSS

neither the zerg nor the protoss were really evloved they were prefected and made into what the xelnaga wanted

proof is that he managed to live longer than zertual and has knowledge of history long before his time

balance on hybrids will be easyier
the hybrids in stasis are deemed prefect but it took years
but the zergs ability to make units can be used with the hybrids
the zergs natural ability to forceably evlove itself for swarm
for example its propably possible for a hydro to become a drone to start a hive cluster it would take a long time though by forcing itself or having leader doing it
with th ehybrids they do this they make som weird hive that can make hybrids but only the begining hybrids alot of evolving would be neededfor the these new hybrids to become the same as the ones who were in stasis

okay since he said his masters are reflected in the cell its either an xel naga and he reflecting on prefection, its a hybrid and hes reflecting on likeness or a hyrbid/xelnaga which he is reflecting on the creation of the new creature
wow ktan you got some follower!

[ChimTheGrim21]

I guess no one watches ESPN 8 then huh? The ocho is not to be underestimated. Stacraft 2 television FTW!

[Hyperion]

actually the protoss and zerg were creatures but the xel naga took them and prefected them and GAVE THEM the names ZERG AND PROTOSS THUS THE XEL NAGA MADE THE ZERG AND PROTOSS

neither the zerg nor the protoss were really evloved they were prefected and made into what the xelnaga wanted

proof is that he managed to live longer than zertual and has knowledge of history long before his time

balance on hybrids will be easyier
the hybrids in stasis are deemed prefect but it took years
but the zergs ability to make units can be used with the hybrids
the zergs natural ability to forceably evlove itself for swarm
for example its propably possible for a hydro to become a drone to start a hive cluster it would take a long time though by forcing itself or having leader doing it
with th ehybrids they do this they make som weird hive that can make hybrids but only the begining hybrids alot of evolving would be neededfor the these new hybrids to become the same as the ones who were in stasis

okay since he said his masters are reflected in the cell its either an xel naga and he reflecting on prefection, its a hybrid and hes reflecting on likeness or a hyrbid/xelnaga which he is reflecting on the creation of the new creature
wow ktan you got some follower!

They were already called Zerg and Protoss....

[BlackDefiler]

Actually, the Xel'naga gave the name to the Protoss (Meaning firstborn),
while Zerg already had their name.

[Dayoh]

I think "the hybrids" or the Xel'naga will be a race if not the campaign will revolve around them heavily.

There will be a new race for sure, thats what blizzard does (for example the Diablo series and WC) and as someone has already said without big changes like a new race for example, they might aswell just do another expansion.

From blizzards experience with SC/BW, i think SC2 will be pretty balanced, in the end of WC3's life, it has reached a balanced state (except the "hero system" needed further thought before implementation).

I just hope they dont turn SC2 into WC, for example totaly un-unique races, gay hero's (although a "veterancy system" would be cool).

Oh, looking at the date its the 13th and the announcement is on 19th, so close :)

[BlackDefiler]

Yes, and I'm still a bit afraid of the whole idea. A new race could mean a great blow against balance.

I hope they won§t be playable.

[Borgorb]

hey they should be playable because it opens up new possibilities and stratergys along with new units and base structures and etc...

they should bring out the hybrids anyways because they wud be cool and new and exciting and etc...

[BlackDefiler]

Maybe Blizzard could integrate them well, and Maybe it will remain balanced and Maybe the storyline would turn out to be awesome, but I'm afraid it will lack the feel....

[TitanWing]

The Xel'Naga and Hybids may be combined. My belief is that Duran is a Xel'Naga and there are probably more out there. He's making the Hybrids to bolster their own military. (just my own SC conspiracy theory)

[Leosam096]

SC2 should keep balance!!!That's why there are patches for the win! :)

[TitanWing]

That's why there are patches for the win! :)
Quite true. It won't start out perfect, but neither did SC1.

[Basan]

They were already called Zerg and Protoss....

Actually, the Xel'naga gave the name to the Protoss (Meaning firstborn),
while Zerg already had their name.

Read. the. game's. manual. :P
In it, it states that the Xel'Naga found both 'Toss and Zerg original species, that they developed'em in different forms and then also labelled them later on.

[BlackDefiler]

Ok, so I read the manual for about the 75th time. It clearly states that:
"...Az Xel'nagák az új fajnak a Protoss, "az Elsőszülött" nevet adta."
That clearly confirms that I'm totally correct! :D

Ok it means: ...The Xel'naga gave the new species the name Protoss meaning "Firstborn".

[Basan]

And what about the Zerg name (http://www.sclegacy.com/encyclopedia/race_histories.php#z)? That was my aimed doubt (at ya) all along. ;) Were the original insectoids already called Zerg or were they aptly labelled as such as soon as the Xel'Naga started to fiddle with'em?

[BlackDefiler]

Look at that!
Read back what I wrote in my first post in this thread! Was something like: "no units opening blackholes and such" we all saw what the Mothership can do. :rolleyes:

BTW! What happened to the carrier? Don't tlell me they just trashed it. :cry:

[Basan]

What happened to the carrier? Don't tlell me they just trashed it. :cry:

It's under development, so anything can still happen. :P

[Hyperion]

Carriers sucked(well not so bad) anyway...just send a few scourges to them...and they're all dead...what I hate about carriers is that...you need a lot so it becomes "invincible" unlike a BC mass...which can pwn 12 Carriers even if you have 6 BCs...

[Ahzz]

Carriers sucked(well not so bad) anyway...just send a few scourges to them...and they're all dead...
who the * would be so stupid to just let you send some scourges to them? who would use only carriers in that sort of stuff. Besides it's basically useless unless zerg has good cloning skills.

what I hate about carriers is that...you need a lot so it becomes "invincible" unlike a BC mass...which can pwn 12 Carriers even if you have 6 BCs...
that's because you're a frickin noob trying to sound cool and expert. Carriers have longer range, and better speed than bc's. plus their interceptors shoot even if they dont stop. Without yamatogun 1 carrier is enough to kill 12 bc's in theory. because map room is limited and terran might not be noob, lets make it more realistic. 6 carriers beat your 12 bc's without yamato. 12 carriers beat the bc's even if they have yamato. They start firing, and after they shoot out interceptors you run at the correct pace. gg bc's.

[Hyperion]

Ahzz...I'm not a noob or idiot(XD)...Carriers Might have better speed and Range...but for Armor and HP...they lose greatly...and about the carrier thing(Scourges)...That would work...without any support(Corsairs or Scouts)...Scourges are Carrier Killers...good Carrier Killers...

[DarkMirror]

Yeah, a few BCs with Yamato is all it takes to devestate a group of carriers.

[Ahzz]

but for Armor and HP...they lose greatly...
and who cares about that? if they dont lose the hp and armor (they dont lose in armor either btw) how could they lose? They got better speed, better range, and they dont have to stop when shooting. this makes them much much more effective in harasses and many other things. Unlike BC's. What bc's are good in is a straight "go eradicate everything" command, not really much else.

[Kellanved]

Okay, zerg don't even speak; just the overmind (and infested terrans, for obvious reasons). And the overmind was created by the Xel Naga (as was mentioned in this thread, I didn't know that on my own).

The only thing zerg could've called themselves before the naga appeared is "zzzzchkthblblblblortch!"

Also, the biggest piece of evidence supporting that Xel Naga are humans is the fact that everybody in the universe speaks english. A fleet of terrans can explore a new sector of the universe, and be intercepted by a great enigma tribe of the unknown.... and yet there's no lack of communication; they can have full-out conversations making settlements and conditions and such, which is the most damned unrealistic thing ever. Unless Xel Naga were humans, or at least had some history with Earth (the birthplace of english language).

@ Black Defiler: SC2 is a new game, so I expect to see something new when I play. There will obviously be balance issues, but I trust Blizzard to eventually get it right, since they've done so before. But if it stays mostly the same, what's the point of making it, rather than another expansion?

But I do agree that they should scrap the mother ship. Or at least nerf it a lot.

[Ktan]

There are newer thread about for the discussion of balance, and this thread ws on it's last legs before SC II was announced.