Would There be point to interstellar Travel?

[TranquilNightElf]

Just what the title asks.

I mean if the universe is expandig as fast as ever..with everything moviing away from everything else at a very high velocity, then what would be the point of interstallar travel?

I.E say you visit a planet in a neighbouring galaxy...then in just a few days..that would be million and millions of miles away.Nothing would ever stay in it's original place.

[SiegeTank]

If you are capable of visiting a planet in a neighbouring galaxy, a few million miles more or less wouldn't mean anything since you'd be able to travel at such outrageously fast speeds that they become insignificant. A vessel capable of bridging the immense gap between galaxies wouldn't likely have any problem with distances under a few gazillion lightyears.

[TranquilNightElf]

But eventually they will get out of range and that wouldn;t take very long i guess...and all maps etc wuld have to be constantly chaging

[DaDaimon]

If the universe has no borders in the 3rd dimension, everywhere is the center, if it is expanding the relative distances will also remain the same. Besides you could also make a map describing how fast each location is moving from another and base the map on it, put a time on it and a distance at that moment and you will be able to calculate the distances.

[TranquilNightElf]

if it is expanding the relative distances will also remain the same

But the absolute distances would be ever increasing.So I guess people would have to develop a really efficient way to travel.
What exactly is hyperspace?..
And if anyone watches the series Andromeda..is the Slipstream theoretically possible?

[Kahuzal]

For all you're questions about hyperspace and such... www.howstuffworks.com

[Mattimeo]

think about it this way, if you can travel all the way to another galaxy which is hundreds of light years away in a reasonable time then the distances are not important. We can see light from other galaxies because they are moving well under the speed of light so if we can travel to them then the changes would not be important. It's like saying you can't live on different tectonic plates because they are moving apart.

[TranquilNightElf]

hmm.. i guess..
.food for thought.

[GrassDragon]

It's like saying you can't live on different tectonic plates because they are moving apart.

I agree with that. By the time were able to achieve FTL travel, even billions of billions of miles would be a small hop.

[OboeGuru]

I agree with that. By the time were able to achieve FTL travel, even billions of billions of miles would be a small hop.
Of course, once you start going into FTL travel, there's the whole time distortion thing, but that's a whole different discussion. Since everything is moving at much less than the speed of light, even near-light speed would be more than ample for quick interstallar travel.

[GrassDragon]

yeah if we were to travel by going really fast, time distortion would be a problem. But what if we traveled long distances by folding time-space and then jumping the short gap? that shouldnt mess up time too much should it? i dont know a whole lot about it (or if it would even be possible) but i think ive seen the idea somewhere before.

[Fenguin]

Hehe, as soon as we learn how to fold space-time ;)
We could always find an Einstein-Rosen bridge and hope it doesn't collapse on us when we go through ;)

[Case_in_point]

A Wrinkle in Time was a book that talked about bending space time to cross great distances. I still liked the ship engine in Futurama, it moved the universe around the ship instead of moving the ship through the universe.

[BobTheRaver]

Just what the title asks.

I mean if the universe is expandig as fast as ever..with everything moviing away from everything else at a very high velocity, then what would be the point of interstallar travel?

I.E say you visit a planet in a neighbouring galaxy...then in just a few days..that would be million and millions of miles away.Nothing would ever stay in it's original place.
well thee is also the theries that the universe has reached its expanding limit and is now retracting and in a sense going in reverse so intersteller treavel or not the universe is not limitless in my eyes

[GrassDragon]

as soon as we learn how to fold space-time ;)

:bigsmile: true. once interstellar travel has been accomplished though, shouldnt space-time folding just be the next step?

[Fenguin]

Hehe, and just how are we going to do that? ;)
Although 3-dimensional shapes could in theory fold 4-dimensional shapes, just like 2-dimensional shapes can fold 3-dimensional shapes :)

[WeekendLazyness]

Now how does that work, Fenguin?

[Fenguin]

Let a 3D shape intersect a 2D plane. It forms a 2D shape on the 2D plane. Then, 2D people can bend that shape, causing the 3D shape to change shape. :) Same reasoning for 3D vs 4D. :)

[GrassDragon]

sounds good to me all we need now is a giant hand to bend everything :)

[OboeGuru]

I would prefer a giant pair of pliers, it would probably bend more evenly that a hand would. ;)

[Fenguin]

Ok, let's try to find out where space-time intersects the 3D plane [um... box O.o]

[Duddits]

One problem... Time is a relitive term acourding to relitivity. For us to be able to fold 4d would require constantly changing equations. First we need to find us a good algorythm.

[Battlecruiser]

If you are capable of visiting a planet in a neighbouring galaxy, a few million miles more or less wouldn't mean anything since you'd be able to travel at such outrageously fast speeds that they become insignificant. A vessel capable of bridging the immense gap between galaxies wouldn't likely have any problem with distances under a few gazillion lightyears.

yeah.not too much of a problem once you can travel faster than the speed of light or atleast seem like you traveled faster than the speed of light.

[Fenguin]

If you only seemed like you travelled faster than the speed of light, but really didn't, you wouldn't be able to get to your destination on time ;)

[Battlecruiser]

If you only seemed like you travelled faster than the speed of light, but really didn't, you wouldn't be able to get to your destination on time ;)

I meant if you go through those wormhole things

[frogger]

ok, this is pretty odvious, but if we could travel the speed of light, or go through worm holes, do you think we would sit around and say 'gee, lets travel to places and learn things' or 'gee, lets use these to kill things!!!' We would find a way to kill other aliens we met (or try to) and rape their planet of their recources. Maybe even move to their planet to infest it, kind of like an 'abandon ship' on earth.

[TranquilNightElf]

ok.....um.........yeah...righttttt...........
;)

[Fenguin]

I meant if you go through those wormhole things
We can't hold "wormholes", or Einstein-Rosen bridges, open long enough to get anything through. Any slight disruption can cause the two sides to pinch off into two separate singularities, causing the ship to be trapped inside. :(
Of course, if we could make wormholes, and find a way to keep them open, that would be pretty coo :p

[TranquilNightElf]

Wormhole travel can theoretically be made to become stable with the use of Exotic matter to make any craft to traverse the wormhole

[Fenguin]

Um... exotic matter? :D Please elaborate. ;)

[MacG]

Wormhole travel can theoretically be made to become stable with the use of Exotic matter to make any craft to traverse the wormhole
You mean rare matter that can reenforce the spaceship's structure right? Or else I'm thinking sexually.

[Fenguin]

The bad thing about wormholes is that they pinch off into two singularities with no reason at all. Slight disturbances to it [i.e. ship going through] can cause that problem.

Like:
]====[
becomes
]>- -<[

So spaceships can't get through anymore. Even worse, the singularities are black holes so the spaceship can't get out either. :(

[MacG]

A disturbance will cause the wormhole to become two black holes?

[Fenguin]

Basically. Both sides pinch off into singularities, and singularities = black holes.

[Battlecruiser]

But eventually they will get out of range and that wouldn;t take very long i guess...and all maps etc wuld have to be constantly chaging

yeah but maps then will be electronic or something.

[Scorch]

I'd settle for another planet. The obvious benefit I can see is no neighbors.:D Mars looks like a good place to set up shop. *goes to NASA only to find that people can't go to mars yet* :p

[TranquilNightElf]

You mean rare matter that can reenforce the spaceship's structure right? Or else I'm thinking sexually.


No I mean Exotic matter,,
As opposed to normal matter that has positive inward trend of energy flow eg a large enough mass will develop a appreciable gravity pulling things inward towards it, exotic matter has the opposite energy trend......it pushes energy outwards (theretically speaking of course although some has been reported to hae been made in a lab).
The same exotic matter can act as a stabilizing agent to counter what Fenguin has quite rightly stated.

[Fenguin]

That kind of matter would be awesome! I could put a bunch of it around my school, and no one would be able to get in, creating a no-school day! :D

[Jedi_Templar]

I doubt man will be able to go FTL. Assuming light has a definitive speed.


Personally, I don't think light has a constant speed over long distances. There are all sorts of stuff out in the universe that could adversely affect c. Gravity wells, gas clouds, other stars... the list goes on.

If man does travel to the stars, it would probably be some sort of extra-dimensional stuff... like hyper-space.

[Battlecruiser]

I doubt man will be able to go FTL. Assuming light has a definitive speed.


Personally, I don't think light has a constant speed over long distances. There are all sorts of stuff out in the universe that could adversely affect c. Gravity wells, gas clouds, other stars... the list goes on.

If man does travel to the stars, it would probably be some sort of extra-dimensional stuff... like hyper-space.

yeah me too but I think he was saying IF we can go faster than light would it be good to have interstellar travel.

[Scorch]

I had an idea on how to colonize mars. Set up a mess of green-houses, and just let them convert the atomsphere to oxygen/nitrogen. Then put in trees that live in that kind of cold., followed by warming, so the icecaps melt, making oceans.

[frogger]

a costly idea, though a little off topic

[Jedi_Templar]

yeah me too but I think he was saying IF we can go faster than light would it be good to have interstellar travel.
Oh yeah, it would be good.

If population growths don't change, we'll need to travel to the stars by the end of this milinium, due to growths in population and resources needed.

[singo]

Why bother??

same reason as everything else in human development.....Because we can

(ok we can't but if we could...)

[Grom_Icecream]

Mars would obviously be the first step in space travel. Then a method of getting us places quick.....

As to these being a point to interstellar travel, i would say yes there is a point. When we get around to it the point will probably be survival. At the moment the point would be knowlege, or power, whatever, it would be cool.

[SHISHKABOB]

The universe is expanding but it is like 4952804276537493605 Katrilliobillion miles wide in every part so a million miles is like .0000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000001
of a millimeter. Also the same with FTL travel, light already goes way over one million miles per hour.

[Battlecruiser]

The universe is expanding but it is like 4952804276537493605 Katrilliobillion miles wide in every part so a million miles is like .0000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000001
of a millimeter. Also the same with FTL travel, light already goes way over one million miles per hour.

Yeah but we aren't trying to reach the ends of the universe are we? No, we are trying to reach nearby planets and stars in this solar system and out of this solar system. A perfect example would be a planet or star in the Andromeda galaxy.

[Battlecruiser]

Oh yeah, it would be good.

If population growths don't change, we'll need to travel to the stars by the end of this milinium, due to growths in population and resources needed.
Good point though I don't think we will be traveling to stars. They are too hot unless they are dead and if they are dead then they probably have a very high gravitational force. We would be traveling to planets. But yeah we probably will travel to Pluto atleast in 150 years and by year 3000 we should be having colonies on Andromeda. That is if our technology booms the same way it has been all along.

Oh man, I double posted. If a mod sees this, can you please merge my posts together?

[Kahuzal]

Hyperspace is the time that is between where a "wormhole bridge" starts and ends, in more then 3 dimensions.

I just posted a thread about the length of the universe, actually...

[Maegtelluma]

I had an idea on how to colonize mars. Set up a mess of green-houses, and just let them convert the atomsphere to oxygen/nitrogen. Then put in trees that live in that kind of cold., followed by warming, so the icecaps melt, making oceans.
That works...until an asteroid comes and busts up the whole place.

Nah, it could work, but it would take a hell of a long time, cost tons of money, and it would probably be a thousand years or more before the place would be even nearly habitable. Plus, unless we want to wait millions of years for (dare i say) evolution of current "species", we'd have to stock the place with earth critters.

[Whiteknight]

Oh man, I double posted. If a mod sees this, can you please merge my posts together?
Don't worry about it, BC, double posting is okay once in a while.

There is a point to interstellar travel. Human beings have a hidden urge to explore. This would help quell our urge in our quest to dominate the gala... I mean explore. :). With it, we might be able to find other life and we can find new planets to colonize.

[singo]

By 3000 we will be in andromeda?

gives us a thousand years to get there, the next galaxy

i think to colonize every habitablr planet in OUR galaxy would take longer than that.

let's get it done here before we do someone elses

[Battlecruiser]

By 3000 we will be in andromeda?

gives us a thousand years to get there, the next galaxy

i think to colonize every habitablr planet in OUR galaxy would take longer than that.

let's get it done here before we do someone elses
I am pretty sure thatis not how it is going ot work. I mean we haven't even explored half of the worlds oceans. Yet we went to the moon. Sure we will colonize places in our galaxy, but we will send atleast a few people to Andromeda if we can travel faster than light.

[singo]

Isnt faster than light impossible?

the faster something moves the greater it's mass (dont ask why it just is)

and at light speed mass is infinate

so to travel faster than light an infinate amount of energy is required

(yes i think that is bo****ks too but it is the currently accepted theory)

[TranquilNightElf]

Actually according to Einstien..the faster you go your length also decreses so at the speed of light your length should be concentrated to a point and all your mass too..so in actuality your density would increase not your mass....but i seem to remember a partlicle discovered a year or two back called the parsec (or something similar) that can travel at 333.33 times the speed of light.,.

[singo]

i thought a parsec was a measure of distance, about 3 light years or somethink

or i may be wrong

[TranquilNightElf]

well i do know that it was a named particle...it may be a measure of distance as well

[singo]

fair enuf