Power to Anarchy!!!

[RelinaIonna]

The organized world is totally appalling; it’s all based on greed. I say let anarchy rain. Oh but what about order; we'll always need the structure of a community. Anarchy is too extreme and has no place in our society. Well screw society! It’s not a community any more; the government controls it all. They can control the media and effect it as they wish. Take Haiti for example, those "rebels" are fighting for better conditions for the people. But we can't have that; our big Multi-National Corporations has to have somewhere to operate. And of course abuse the local population and give no regard to the environment. We have to stop the "rebels" and keep that great government in place. You know the one that is totally corrupt and lets these M.N.C.'s operate.

Chaos is the end result to the world. These world empires will have to fall one day. And with it tons of death and destruction. Dissolving these governments and easing into Anarchy would be a much better thing. It would be easier on these people who had been made week by today's society. If everyone lived by the first world's standard of living we'd need the resources of three earths. That's why anarchy will require doing away with our conspicuous consumption. Even with anarchy in the world small individual actual communities may still exist. I emphasize on the word community. Like one big family each person contributing and each person being taken care of.

Anarchy will reign in the world outside these communities. Many problems like starvation, poaching, and slavery could be abolished. For with our knowledge and not the ignorance of those past; we may avoid many of those past mistakes.

[Grom_Icecream]

Anarchy is also based on greed though isn't it? People do whatever makes them happy with no regard for others. That would make anarchy just a version of todays society with less rules and no law enforcement.

Go socialism i say....heh

[TranquilNightElf]

I guess the governments of today could be called anarchy disguised as a civilized system...cause most just do what suits them..the only difference is that the power is now in the hands of a few to be anarchists....hmm.. i guess i feel cynical right about now...

[hammocksleeper]

I am a firm believer in the limited role of government in society. However, let's suppose that anarchy reigned today. What's to keep there from being no rules? What's to keep a couple of people from forming a nation with an organized structure and a system of law?

[TranquilNightElf]

It would all depend on who thought the anarchy 'system' was not good enough..some blokes would get the intellectual epiphany and form law and order and or a while it would seem like the olden dream then fall right into red-tape land of excuses and power mongering

[Whiteknight]

Well, if there was anarchy right now, we wouldn't be posting right now. Technology would cease to improve/exist, moder conviences would stop. It's all for yourself, and anything goes. Rules are good.

[TranquilNightElf]

Not necessairly ....if we were the group with the power in our hands ..we could do what we wanted ....while letting anarchy reign elsewhere..
I'm not saying that anarchy is good heck no...its just that the govts today are usually a far cry from the idealistic vision people had when..... say they first got their independance..or when they formed the first govt etc...

[DT-Dingir]

well, I was talking to a friend today, and we are both apposed to the government system currently in-place, but we both decided that a government based on Darwin ideals ( doing away with god and stupid people ), along with a socialist economy would be a great system, although anarchy is a good philosophy, in the end it wont work

[TranquilNightElf]

How do you mean "doing away" with god (or good?)...and stupid people?

[Grom_Icecream]

well, I was talking to a friend today, and we are both apposed to the government system currently in-place, but we both decided that a government based on Darwin ideals ( doing away with god and stupid people ), along with a socialist economy would be a great system, although anarchy is a good philosophy, in the end it wont work
Brilliance. Though a system like this would only really work in countries with very little religious affiliations. Actually, come to think of it, if you did away with all the stupid people first, there would be no need to do away with religion.

Muhahahahahaaa.

[Frattimonde]

Are you a Anarchist or something, Relina?

[RelinaIonna]

I have added more to my thought back on the first page.

[Frattimonde]

Ahem.

Why so negative upon Democracy?

[TranquilNightElf]

The organized world is totally appalling; it’s all based on greed. I say let anarchy rain. Oh but what about order; we'll always need the structure of a community. Anarchy is too extreme and has no place in our society. Well screw society! It’s not a community any more; the government controls it all. They can control the media and effect it as they wish. Take Haiti for example, those "rebels" are fighting for better conditions for the people. But we can't have that; our big Multi-National Corporations has to have somewhere to operate. And of course abuse the local population and give no regard to the environment. We have to stop the "rebels" and keep that great government in place. You know the one that is totally corrupt and lets these M.N.C.'s operate.

Chaos is the end result to the world. These world empires will have to fall one day. And with it tons of death and destruction. Dissolving these governments and easing into Anarchy would be a much better thing. It would be easier on these people who had been made week by today's society. If everyone lived by the first world's standard of living we'd need the resources of three earths. That's why anarchy will require doing away with our conspicuous consumption. Even with anarchy in the world small individual actual communities may still exist. I emphasize on the word community. Like one big family each person contributing and each person being taken care of.

Anarchy will reign in the world outside these communities. Many problems like starvation, poaching, and slavery could be abolished. For with our knowledge and not the ignorance of those past; we may avoid many of those past mistakes.






I think you are giving people too much credit by counting on them to do the right thing and be smart by not making past mistakes...automatic living by a standard code of life doesn't come naturally to people ...there has to be a factor that drives them to it..
for one thing poaching slavery etc would never be abolished. The word abolished itsels suggests a rule that says that you can't poach or enslave people.... there would always be people who would want slaves to their bidding etc and without laws they'd get a free reign...as i said automatic living by a standard code of life doesn't come naturally to people ...there has to be a factor that drives them to it..be it laws or the enviromental condition that surrounds them.

[RelinaIonna]

Oh but I don't; said transition will be slow and give the weak time to adapt. A chance for humanity to change. If people are willing to go this far to do this then they should be as willing not to enslave, ect. Or you can wait for the world collapse and us all to be rapidly thrust into anarchy. The weak will not survive, and only the strong and the resilient will survive. Much of our technology will be lost; or we could ease ourselves into a more ideal state of living in which most of humanity can survive.

[TranquilNightElf]

How is it possible to have a slow transition into anarchy?..that would require some system that would "organize" the descent (or ascent...whichever way you put it) into anarchy....how would the weak get time to adapt... and adapt to what?..to just take things as it suits them?..i doubt that the strong would just wait and let their weak brothers catch up...unless one changes the human perception that exists today to get more and to want more and to achieve more power no matter what....there can.t be a slow transition...and there would be chaos for the better part of time...
I agree with you on the fact that a fast change into anarchy would infact wipe out the "weak" ..i guess the world would regress into simpler and more humanistic times...eventually....(unless even in such times someone decides to become a warlord and the whole cycle repeats ..albeit in a technological backward setting...)
Your mention of an ideal state of living reminds me very strongly of the Seitch Communities living on Dune..each fremen doing what was best for the tribe and ideal and principles arising out of the necessities that the harsh environment of the perptual desert ..a more simple and ideal way of living...

[RelinaIonna]

How is it possible to have a slow transition into anarchy?..that would require some system that would "organize" the descent (or ascent...whichever way you put it) into anarchy....how would the weak get time to adapt... and adapt to what?..to just take things as it suits them?..i doubt that the strong would just wait and let their weak brothers catch up...unless one changes the human perception that exists today to get more and to want more and to achieve more power no matter what....there can.t be a slow transition...and there would be chaos for the better part of time...
It may occur with wide spread government reforms. Pass laws to limit our consumption and optimize our use of the world's resources. And eventually transfer more power to the regional governments and in the end dissolve all high level governments and revert into communities. Sort of drawing from true Narcissism. This is one of perhaps many ways of achieving this goal. All the while using media and pop culture to change the popular view towards these changes.


Your mention of an ideal state of living reminds me very strongly of the Seitch Communities living on Dune..each fremen doing what was best for the tribe and ideal and principles arising out of the necessities that the harsh environment of the perptual desert ..a more simple and ideal way of living...Augh so you know from where I draw my ideals.

[TranquilNightElf]

It may occur with wide spread government reforms. Pass laws to limit our consumption and optimize our use of the world's resources. And eventually transfer more power to the regional governments and in the end dissolve all high level governments and revert into communities. Sort of drawing from true Narcissism. This is one of perhaps many ways of achieving this goal. All the while using media and pop culture to change the popular view towards these changes.

That could work..except you would need a worldy decision in which all world parties are involved and cooperative



Augh so you know from where I draw my ideals.
:)
I think Frank Herbert had something there

[RelinaIonna]

That could work..except you would need a worldy decision in which all world parties are involved and cooperativeNot True; One need only manipulate the Multi National Coorperations; and from there one can guide the world. Or just build a doomsday device, hold the world hostage and force them to change. (Theres your driving force, eh; Change or Death.)

:)
I think Frank Herbert had something thereOf course. But one knosw how smart he is just by reading any of the many books about him.

[TranquilNightElf]

that's tempting...having the MNC's doing the task beinhd everyone's back...but the person(s) that would manipulate the MNCs and /or build the doomsday device would eventually have to give up the power...

EDIT:
plus he would have to be ready to actually carry out his death threat to an extent to make the driing force of death believable

[Frattimonde]

Wouldn´t ultimate balance workout better than chaos?

[TranquilNightElf]

but to get to ultimate balance you'd have to propagate the belief of ultimate balance..make it popular..that would initially lead to chaos depending on the way how its is done

[Frattimonde]

Lets just invoke the doom and let there be chaos.

There is no hope.

[TranquilNightElf]

The trouble with release chaos in an age of planet destroying weapons is that there might not be anyone left to build the simplistic society

[RelinaIonna]

that's tempting...having the MNC's doing the task beinhd everyone's back...but the person(s) that would manipulate the MNCs and /or build the doomsday device would eventually have to give up the power...

EDIT:
plus he would have to be ready to actually carry out his death threat to an extent to make the driing force of death believable
If they had that much conviction to pull it off, then one would hope that he would follow through. But we must not forget that saying "Absolute power, corrupts absolutely." But for the sake of the world and its future we must act and hope for the better.

[TranquilNightElf]

"Absolute power, corrupts absolutely." But for the sake of the world and its future we must act and hope for the better.



Its the "What if" question that scares most people of the change...and its always the first step towards the change that is the hardest...

hmm..Interesting question though: does this justify terrioism?..because that's what most claim to do...bring power to the people (at least their own people)...

[RelinaIonna]

hmm..Interesting question though: does this justify terrioism?..because that's what most claim to do...bring power to the people (at least their own people)...
This brings up an interesting point. Many people wondered why the attacks of 9/11 happened. Its comes back to those Multi National Corporations and their abuse of the 3rd World. They commit many atrocities and plague humanity. These companies are based in the West. The three targets were quite significant.

The World Trade Center wasn't bombed for being merely the tallest buildings in New York. No it was where all these M.N.C. do their business. The Pentagon is the Military H.Q. of the force that backs these M.N.C.'s. When a 3rd World nation wants to be of the corrupt governments and wants a better life, they are labeled rebels that force send over supplies, intelligence, and manpower to back the corrupt government. They want the M.N.C.'s to continue its operations and continue pumping money back to them. The third target the Capitol Building or the White House is where the Politics happen. Where laws and such are passed to let these M.N.C.'s keep working and in turn supply those Politicians with money.

It was the peasants who fought back against abusers. They "Have’s" abusing the "Have-Not's" for far to long. A retaliation took place. The scary thing is that, they out number us, and that they did succeed in this venture. 2 of the 3 targets were burned and the US’s retaliation has drained the economy. [That and a defunct government. http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html (http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html) ] Not all of Al'Quaida has been caught so it may happen again. And as it frequently says on the news, Terrorists are constantly plotting new things.

The Cyber-Wars are another thing to fear. The world is controlled by computer systems, which are constantly being hacked. Should only one of these succeed, chaos will ensue, perhaps a damn will release its floodgates or the communications system will go down. Possibilities are endless. I may not be concluding with what I started but I will end with this.

Wake Up World; we are teetering on the edge of that unforgivable Chaos. Too Fast; Too Soon!

[TranquilNightElf]

This brings up an interesting point. Many people wondered why the attacks of 9/11 happened. Its comes back to those Multi National Corporations and their abuse of the 3rd World. They commit many atrocities and plague humanity. These companies are based in the West. The three targets were quite significant.

The World Trade Center wasn't bombed for being merely the tallest buildings in New York. No it was where all these M.N.C. do their business. The Pentagon is the Military H.Q. of the force that backs these M.N.C.'s. When a 3rd World nation wants to be of the corrupt governments and wants a better life, they are labeled rebels that force send over supplies, intelligence, and manpower to back the corrupt government. They want the M.N.C.'s to continue its operations and continue pumping money back to them. The third target the Capitol Building or the White House is where the Politics happen. Where laws and such are passed to let these M.N.C.'s keep working and in turn supply those Politicians with money.

It was the peasants who fought back against abusers. They "Have’s" abusing the "Have-Not's" for far to long. A retaliation took place. The scary thing is that, they out number us, and that they did succeed in this venture. 2 of the 3 targets were burned and the US’s retaliation has drained the economy. [That and a defunct government. http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html (http://www.emogame.com/bushgame.html) ] Not all of Al'Quaida has been caught so it may happen again. And as it frequently says on the news, Terrorists are constantly plotting new things.

The Cyber-Wars are another thing to fear. The world is controlled by computer systems, which are constantly being hacked. Should only one of these succeed, chaos will ensue, perhaps a damn will release its floodgates or the communications system will go down. Possibilities are endless. I may not be concluding with what I started but I will end with this.

Wake Up World; we are teetering on the edge of that unforgivable Chaos. Too Fast; Too Soon!





3rd World countries may be exploited to an abject degree but ..i still question the methods of the people who fight against it..and regret the massive loss of life it causes...it only fuels and justifies the campaign of the western world against the people of these causes..I'd like to see a MC propagated change into power dissolution... rather than a death threat to force change....the way things are going it's anyone guess on what form chaos can take

[XTERMIN8OR1]

I agree with you that empires and civilization as we know it will be struck down by guerilla wars, terrorism, rebellion. Much people will die. Only they who know how to survive in a world of anarchy and chaos will actually survive (sadly, much of them will be criminals). Much technology will get lost. Most companies will get bankrupt, except those wo could be usefull to the groups of raging anarchists. Companies that aren't usefull to them can only keep existing if they go specializing in other things. Like weapons, ammunition, gas, 4-wheel drive vehikels, food,...And those companies will, maybe, get protection from those groups if they deliver goods only to them. And people who aren't with those groups of anarchists will only escape their furie if they get usefull to them. Like engineers who could invent new and better weapons.
There were actually made quite a lot of good movies upon this subject: Mad Max, WaterWorld,...

[RelinaIonna]

I agree with you that empires and civilization as we know it will be struck down by guerilla wars, terrorism, rebellion. Much people will die. Only they who know how to survive in a world of anarchy and chaos will actually survive (sadly, much of them will be criminals). Much technology will get lost. Most companies will get bankrupt, except those wo could be usefull to the groups of raging anarchists. Companies that aren't usefull to them can only keep existing if they go specializing in other things. Like weapons, ammunition, gas, 4-wheel drive vehikels, food,...And those companies will, maybe, get protection from those groups if they deliver goods only to them. And people who aren't with those groups of anarchists will only escape their furie if they get usefull to them. Like engineers who could invent new and better weapons.
There were actually made quite a lot of good movies upon this subject: Mad Max, WaterWorld,...Another potential result of Chaos. I find it an unwanted form of anarchy. But this is why I say that a slow transition is more favorable to the inevitable cataclysm.

[TranquilNightElf]

Speaking of fast transition through death and destruction...the ending of Fight club was a little bit like that..wiping away all debts and accounts of hundreds of thousands ..or millinons of people...bringing most people to the same base.

[RelinaIonna]

And those with hard assets?Speaking of fast transition through death and destruction...the ending of Fight club was a little bit like that..wiping away all debts and accounts of hundreds of thousands ..or millinons of people...bringing most people to the same base.

[Whiteknight]

Anarchy will reign in the world outside these communities. Many problems like starvation, poaching, and slavery could be abolished. For with our knowledge and not the ignorance of those past; we may avoid many of those past mistakes.


*Cough*

Slavery would not be abolished. In fact, it would flourish. Right now, laws are the only thing that are keeping people from having slaves, doing away with laws would just make slavery have no consequences, so anyone that captures someone else and threatens his life would become a slave.

Starvation would be even worse. Everyone would have to rely upon the enviroment for food, most of which would not allow crops to grow well. Many people will starve, especially if the first winter is a harsh one.

Poaching would stay the same. There would be no laws against killing any animals, so people would probably kill whatever they like, for fun, fur, or for food.

Sorry, bub, but those ideas are WAY off.

[RelinaIonna]

*Cough*

Slavery would not be abolished. In fact, it would flourish. Right now, laws are the only thing that are keeping people from having slaves, doing away with laws would just make slavery have no consequences, so anyone that captures someone else and threatens his life would become a slave.

Starvation would be even worse. Everyone would have to rely upon the enviroment for food, most of which would not allow crops to grow well. Many people will starve, especially if the first winter is a harsh one.

Poaching would stay the same. There would be no laws against killing any animals, so people would probably kill whatever they like, for fun, fur, or for food.

Sorry, bub, but those ideas are WAY off.
You assume too much of the old ways. We would still have the knowledge to be enlightened against such atrocities. Communities will not let there own starve. World Hunger could be wiped out if we really wanted it to be. Countries that are heavy in debt spend so much money paying off the interest that theirs not enough left for the people. But all the resources are there so that everyone can be fed. But unlike most of North America not overfed. People could kill any animal they wanted; but they won't do it for greed; but for food and the like. No endangered species; always enough left to sustain themselves. Firearms should be done away with; plenty of older weapons can suffice.

[TranquilNightElf]

And those with hard assets?

..well it was only a start..i guess those with hard assests were still rich :/

[RelinaIonna]

Sigh, so hard to change. But change we must or face the inevitable Cataclysm.

[TranquilNightElf]

Perhaps it is the cataclysm that will bring about change...did you see "The Man who saw tomorrow"?..
It was about Nostradamus who predicted that after a major war there would be a few millenia of peace because the war would be just so devestating

[Scorpion4v9]

There is no chaos in the world. Chaos doesnt exist in natural reality, it simply doesnot exist. in all chaotic situation you will find an underlying pattern. Certian situations are harder to spot but in all situations you will find an pattern.

Anarchy is just no ruler, And if you keep an anarchy (even world wide) society will sooner or later adjust and become civil. Maybe in anarchy will be the only way for humans to learn to love and respect each other.

[TranquilNightElf]

Well according the entropy law of thermodynamics disorder increase in the universe

IMO (and not because the entopy law)
Chaos exists everywhere
but the pattern exists even in chaos...but few are gifted enough to see it constantly ..(save the Mentats of Dune ;) )

[Grom_Icecream]

Chaos exists. Just listen to some Tool drumming.

[RelinaIonna]

There is no chaos in the world. Chaos doesnt exist in natural reality, it simply doesnot exist. in all chaotic situation you will find an underlying pattern. Certian situations are harder to spot but in all situations you will find an pattern.

Anarchy is just no ruler, And if you keep an anarchy (even world wide) society will sooner or later adjust and become civil. Maybe in anarchy will be the only way for humans to learn to love and respect each other.Chaos aside; yes the world is full of paterns. The eventual collapse of every empire for example. The world will be plunged into disorder; which pretty much is chaos and at the very least it will follow an erratic pattern. Of course we could look at the Incan empire. It was disposed by another empire and it people reduced to slaves. Who's to say in so many years that new a super power doesn't rise to challenge the West. (And no this doesn't include aliens. Lets leave them out of this.)

[TranquilNightElf]

i would say the entire history of the world is a depiction of chaotic pattern...
The basic template would be ..people get together-intellectuall culmination happens-civilization rises-Peak reached-civilization becomes decadent-revolt and rebellion follow-people dispersed to make way for new cultures..

[singo]

chaos always defeats order, because it is better organized

chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is sought

its true.

[Scorpion4v9]

Of course we could look at the Incan empire. It was disposed by another empire and it people reduced to slaves. Who's to say in so many eyars that new super power doesn't rise to challenge the West. (And no this doesn't include aliens. Lets leave them out of this.)

What iam saying is in a perfect society world of anarchy, damn near everyone is equal. With no one in power to force you to do something you will do the oppisote (refering to the "if i told you not to jump off a bridge your going to do it" therom) People will start to slowly pound out a society in which everyone would be cautous but everyone could possibly learn love thy neighbor. Remeber though we do not live in an anarchy world.