The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly...

[DiscipleOfAdun]

THE BAD NEWS:

Blizzard will be releasing patch 1.15 in the near future. This is NEAR. Some sources have it at within a month. Exact time is unknown.

THE GOOD NEWS:
1.15 will feature integration of a large number of anti-hacks. This stems from the news that SCExtension(PenguinPlug) is being discontinued.

News (http://sc.gosugamers.net/news.php?id=5914)

THE UGLY NEWS:
The pending release of 1.15 and integration of anti-hacks means that 2 years of my life has probably gone to waste. I'm predicting that FireGraft will be 100% broken when this new patch comes out.

While Blizzard is oblivious to my efforts, I have spent extremely large amounts of time on modding. I'm probably the most knowledgeable active modder there is. My only problem is that I started about 4 years too late. Oh well.

So, what am I going to do about this?

Well, first of all, I was supposed to release FireGraft very soon. Depending on when the patch comes out, that may or may not happen. Since I don't have access to anything non-public in this matter, I'm just as clueless as you guys as to when this will happen. If I get done before 1.15 comes out, I'll release. If not, I'll have to test to see if I can get it properly working again.

Second. Since my timetable has been, well, messed up, don't expect me to keep to anything that has been previously said. I probably won't be able to.

So, what else?

Well, it's common knowledge that Blizzard is content ignoring modders. We don't pose any threat. In the history of the game, the only times that active attention was given to modification makers was for the greats of CamSys. The most, if not only, visible effect of this is that ScAIEdit III has a 100% accurate opcode name list. That's the bone we got. For a branch of modding that isn't touched that much.

Yes, I'm frustrated with Blizzard. Because nothing good is going to happen. In an effort to revive the game, they are killing off one of the few growing sections.

This is no joke. It's how things are.

Please no anger or frustration. If you think you are mad, I can promise you, I am more. Any questions or non-hostile/upset comments can be made here, sent to me in a Private Message, or e-mailed to me(check my profile).

[U-238]

As you said once man

damn blizzard. damn them.

That about sums it up.

[DiscipleOfAdun]

Heh, only if they end up causing it to not work.

I should mention that chances are MPQDraft might be affected. Probably the plugins are what I'd expect, but still...

[raidmax]

It really sucks that Blizz had to make starcraft, why couldn't it be someone else?? Someone who cares!!?? :sigh::mad: I was soooo looking forward to Firegraft. And now Blizzard killed all of us modders. Just with one swift strike...

I feel very sorry for you DOA, all that work for possibly nothing. I dont know how you make those programs, but is it possible the patch wont effect anything? Just when Firegraft was on of the only things that could get me back into modding...


Do note, that this is probably one of the only times you will see me swear on these boards.

Damn you Blizzard...

[matefkr]

This patch will sure make effect on memory moddings. I think this may contain some good fetures too. I realy hope they will include something special to this mod. But, if i look backward on the history of SC patches.. i don't need to appologize what i mean.

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

<sigh>
Sad, you're a good modder and programmer and this is how you're being rewarded. Well, you're very important and needed. I just hope your talents pays off magnificently one day. Hope you keep trying, that's all I'm saying.

[DiscipleOfAdun]

At the very least, we'll still be able to play on non-bnet servers after downgradeing....but that's still not really worth it.

[andman3000]

That sucks. I wonder if blizzard is every going to care about us modders.

And just when I thought Firegraft was coming out:mad:

[DiscipleOfAdun]

Don't be too down. I just had a talk about it with someone, and I'm fairly confident all that I will need to do is just find the offsets again.

Thing's probably aren't as bad as they seem. We'll still have to wait to find out though.

[RedShift]

O man! I've been looking forward to this for a long time and I'm sure lots of other people have too. It would still be nice if you could release Firegraft even if the patch is already out.

[Basan]

DoA, I sure can understand where you're heading... it was a loss as it is when we lost MemGraft and now this when you get delayed another time (read, the 1.14 patch already troubled ya so this will surely do similar). But you already know that you can count with all out support in any way we can. Just don't ask us to storm Blizzard. ;)

And man, if I lose MPQDraft for SC-BW I'll go bonkers. That's how I've been upgrading old mods to work with current versions of the game. :(

[U-238]

They'll both work still. You just won't be able to play B.net while using a mod.

It all really depends on weather or not pp "likes" mods. If it doesn't go crazy with a mod then we'll be OK. But if it reads the mod as a hack then there'll be a slight problem.

[NpnArbiter]

Hmm, I only started to really get into modding too >.< Of course we could just set games up over Warboards and use the mods. But U-238 is right. Maybe the mods will still work. Of course, does anyone USE mods over bnet? I would just use another server because you have to make sure everyone has the mod.

I really think/hope Blizzard might just "postpone" the patch for WoW. For the sake of SC and WoW? <-----That is something you don't see every day

[andman3000]

Who uses mods over B.net? Probaly some people who have played mods and wanted to show a friend a cool mod.

And over at SEN clan MM has a mod night every friday.

I geuss we cant say Blizzard doesn't care about SC because the fact they are releasing a patch for the game. Maybe they dont care aobut the modders but I still think they care about SC.

[ITSTORRASQUE4U]

A n00b question: will this affect datedit, tblpad, IceCC, etc.? or just the grafting apps?

[SilverCrusader]

The modders aren't the only ones angery, us mappers are still pissed at the 1.14. It rendered many good maps useless.. and our force names can't be colored anymore.
The last thing we need is even more limitations to mapping... we might have to open our own server and play on downgraded versions of starcraft...

[MidnightGladius]

Torrasque - unless there are major modifications in the .DAT files, then no. And if there are (to no obvious benefit), then I think that Blizzard is deliberately trying to provoke us :/

[DiscipleOfAdun]

Well, I'm very, very sure that there isn't too much reason to worry. Extra confirmation has come from fact that there will still be other anti-hack plugins. I assume that the changes FG does can be considered similar to them.

[SuiCidAl-KiSmEt]

I guess we're all gonna have to look forward to the good old days of StarCraft, when it was just born and created...and nothing special added... back to plain ol' StarEdit.:smash:
I think that's where Blizzard is headin' to.

[MidnightGladius]

Well, you have to remember that if standards are kept as high, then resources and ingenuity have an inverse relation. If all we have it StarEdit, then I predict that some very capable people will soon be coming up with techniques that are simply astounding.

[U-238]

The last thing we need is even more limitations to mapping... we might have to open our own server and play on downgraded versions of starcraft...

Why play on downgraded B.net servers when you can use hamachi (http://www.hamachi.cc/)? ^.^

[SilverCrusader]

yeah we could just use that.

StarEdit has been pushed to its limits, theres nothing much that hasn't been done with it, the only thing that you can experiment with is triggers. Now if only I had Blizzard's editor...

[U-238]

Blizzards Editor = Staredit. That's what was used to create the camaigns, and every other map that was published by them was made with Staredit.

[SilverCrusader]

You'd be suprised, they used an upgraded vers. of staredit:
http://www.battle.net/scc/faq/other.shtml

What exactly are the differences between the editor used to create the StarCraft and Brood War campaigns and the retail version of StarEdit?
Level-specific AI scripts. The campaign levels use AI scripts that are not included in retail StarEdit. We chose not to include these scripts because they were created with very specific assumptions about what units would be available, the placement of AI units and buildings, the layout of the map, coordination with triggers and other AI scripts, etc. As a result, these scripts are not flexible enough for use in anything but the exact mission for which they were created.
Access to the StarCraft programmers. Other features, such as cinematics, establishing shots, between mission narratives, and - most infamously - changing the portrait of the Protoss advisor, were not and cannot be implemented using StarEdit.

[Zaeyel]

wait did u say penguin plug is being discontinued!? HOWS THAT GOOD NEWS!?
thats HORRIBLE. Fuck fuck fuck........ err I use that thing all the time, apm and obs mode helps the game alot.

[U-238]

1.15 will feature integration of a large number of anti-hacks. This stems from the news that SCExtension(PenguinPlug) is being discontinued.



Read the post again you n00b. :p

penguin has been discontinued because the penguin team couldn't convince blizzard to use it for the WGT ladder. The reason blizzard did not agree with them is because if they used penguin they'd have to give up the starcraft sourcecode and obviously blizzard absolutely despises that idea even if it's from an extremly trustworthy source.

As a result Ashur decided to shut down the penguin plug operation as it would be too time consuming to find the correct things in the exe needed to make penguin work. Since it was a widely used program blizzard got scared at the thought of a hacker infested battle.net and decided to implement most all of the anti-hack coding from penguin straight into starcraft/battle.net. So yes you'll probably lose your apm and obs mode however, so long as blizzard keeps up, you won't have to worry about hackers on b.net. (which, imo, is probably 10x more important that a live apm tracker. There'll always be bwchart for that. :p)

[DiscipleOfAdun]

Lol, took me a while to figure out what(and to who) you were saying. :P

[Zaeyel]

lol I really seriously dont care about hacks or hackers, at all! I used it for da apm and obsmode ;D

[crystal679]

"Oh blizzard, why hast though forsaken me(us)"

[King_Critter]

Well, that does suck... But y'know, I think that you (I'm talk'n to DoA here :P) should just go and finish it up for 1.14. I mean, we've always been a bit behind the times with MemGraft, so it'll be no great difficulty to keep a downgraded version of StarCraft, just like we've always done.

And the excitment over FireGraft isn't just because it was supposed to be compatible with the current patch, but also because of the redesigned GUI and added fetures.

So yeah, those are just my thoughts on the subject... ^_^

[SilverCrusader]

I'm gonna kill someone at blizzard.. I swear...
(J K)
I'm not actually going to kill them, it is just an expression.
Anyway, why does blizzard HATE us anyway? We buy their fudging product!

[andman3000]

Well unless we all bought SC just to mod it, then I geuss blizzard might give us some slack, but since we bought it and had fun with the normal game they dont really care if we mod it.

[SilverCrusader]

Well, they can't kill mapping off, like they can modding, so I have compassion for you guys.
Mapping can never die, they freaking gave us an editor.

[ExcaliburMM]

Yes they can kill mapping.

No one realizes we are a bug between Blizzards thumb and finger, and they can squash us at any time they please.

Mappers, i bet you didnt know by the term license agreement, you agree that you dont 'own' your maps. All .scm and .scx belong to Blizzard.

They can kill modding. But look at the past and ask yourself whats likely to happen. Blizzard has patched in the past and what do they do? Fix hacks, mess with things, act like they care about SC. And they obviously dont.

I think 1.15 will just make things a little harder. And no matter what they did, if modders, a community of gifted, determined, and talented individuals really took the time to go out and get things done against this patch, reguardless of what it contains, if these people, these kids coding in their spare time came together, there is nothing Blizzard could do, short of banning our CD Keys.

Have faith in the community, have faith in the carelessness of a money fattened company suffering from a WoW addiction.

[MidnightGladius]

Trying to enforce ownership rights on a file-type would be extremely impractical, since it would be essentially cutting off one of their sources of income. It'd take something pretty big to get them that upset :/

As for modding, well, if they were to, say, go back and re-encode the set of .DAT files under a different system with different IDs, it'd essentially make every program currently used worthless. Then we'd be back to Arthur's day, making changes in the numerology and checking to see what it did (remember Arsenal Zero? :D), if anything :)

Fun times.

[SilverCrusader]

lol, yeah... fun...

the only reason people really do play StarCraft online is because people make new maps, if they cut it out, SC will die. (Sorry modders, you need maps to play mods).
And I know they don't want to cut out SC, it is one of their things that they can have LOTS of potential with.
Face it, people get sick of elves and demons.