Beating my friend.

[Hasuak]

Hi there! My first post, yay! :D

I´ve been playing with my friend in LAN for few times now.. I mostly use Protoss and he uses Terrains. He's strategy mostly, is to make wraiths as fast as he can. In meantime, he makes huge-ass fleet of valkyries, combined with about 5 science vessels. That swarm always got me down.. What would be the best, and easiest way to take them down? There is only about 10mins time to make something for his first wraith attack. His bases defences is mostly a huge barrier made of siege tanks and missile turrets.

My way to start the game, is to make as many probes as the first capacity can take. Then i create two pylons and two gateways. While pumping zealots, i create forge and start melee attack upgrade. After those, i create cybercore and stargate.

You get the idea. I dont mostly use air support. Only when i get time, i make 12 fleet of Carriers with observers and arbiters. That kind of fleet is overpower with all upgrades :D

Thanks!

[own3d0406]

Well, may be the whole reason you're losing is because you don't have air support? :/ If the only thing he does is send wraiths, I would tech straight to cy core, and canons, no zealots. Then you could tech to corsairs, if he makes a huge ass fleet of valks, I would just use dragoons.

[Hasuak]

I dont know much about corsairs.. What they can do to wraiths? Their damage and firing rate is rather low.

I just completed Brood War Protoss campaing, and i didn´t really use them.

[SilverCrusader]

firing rate low, yes, they fire super fast and have a massive splash damage area. First off you should know that the toss have supriority, so don't be afraid to go pwn him with your air units.

[Superiorwolf]

Lots and lots of goons and some cannons should work , goons will be good versus his ground metal (tanks and vults) as well. Get some obs too.

And don't try and go carriers - carriers are very late game when you have a lot of expos. Also, if he has good micro, wraiths can pwn carriers.

[zeratulthedark]

I recomend this, go straight to starport tech, make 2 starports and a robotics facility , make all corsairs posible and an observatory, make some observers and kill the incoming atack.
If you do this Quick, it should work (but beware of wraiths cloak ability)

[SilverCrusader]

... thats why you built the obs, but you know, massing cannons right outside his base will work wonders and force him to use his ground.

[zeratulthedark]

And you can try to mass Reavers to stop him if he makes ground atacks, But beware with the BCs, Yamto guns can practicaly kill everything in a protoss Army

[own3d0406]

And you can try to mass Reavers to stop him if he makes ground atacks, But beware with the BCs, Yamto guns can practicaly kill everything in a protoss Army

I've never seen mass reavers. You never mass reavers alone. It's usually speedlots, goons, and observers for Terran ground.

Another thing you can do is proxy gateway and rush zealots if he techs straight to wraiths.

[SilverCrusader]

just pull a fast race switch to Zerg and rape him with rush.

[zeratulthedark]

I've never seen mass reavers. You never mass reavers alone. It's usually speedlots, goons, and observers for Terran ground.
I know it is a strange strategy, but the reavers can kill everything that moves in the ground in a very fast speed

[B.A.Baracus]

just pull a fast race switch to Zerg and rape him with rush.

Zerg are the worse rushing race. Their rush is the fastest, but its weak and easily countered.

[IrishDutchman]

PvT is a bitch, don't even try finding a proper strategy. The only real strategy in existance is 'have a better macro than the Terran'.

Disclaimer: The comments in the post may or may not be true. Most likely the latter. However, NastyApe doesn't care, and seriously hates PvT.

[own3d0406]

I know it is a strange strategy, but the reavers can kill everything that moves in the ground in a very fast speed

Reavers= expensive, slow, and expensive.
Reavers= need scarabs to attack.

You cannot win with reavers alone, they need support. Siege tanks and marines pwn. Massing reavers is like massing BCs without any wraiths or siege tanks with no vultures.

[UnHoly-Assassin]

Large numbers of tanks can crush reavers fast. So can microed dragoons. and DTs. And ghosts with Lockdown. And mines. And archons.

1 corsair is fairly useless, and is usually only for scouting. 12 corsair gives 99% protection against usually large numbers of mutalisks, wraiths (provided that you have detection), scouts, guardians, and scourges. Capitol ships and devourers are exceptions. If you don't believe me, just try 6 corsairs against 12 wraiths controlled by the comp.

[SilverCrusader]

Zerg are the worse rushing race. Their rush is the fastest, but its weak and easily countered.
Thats why you aim for the supply depots, than you go make more zerglings and send them in while there maxed out. Than you can easily overwhelm them.

[Ahzz]

uhhh all advices here have sucked ass. First of all, build 7 probes and then a pylon, and build 2 more. Then build one gateway, and send a probe to scout for him. build a assimilator followed with a cybernetics core and a zealot. Now, your probe should have reached him, and you know how many marines he got. if he got 0-5, 1 zealot is enough as long as you make more dragoons while you are at it. Remember, keep on making probes. Protoss gotta have atleast 50 probes mining minerals through the game, ofcourse, those 50 or more are divided to different expansions. Now if you think he's going to wraith, add robotics facility and a second gateway. Also upgrade dragoon range. Remember to keep on making probes and dragoons. also make a forge. Make a observatory, and 1-2 photon cannons to your base. After you got your first observer, Make another expansion. Add a pylon and 2-3 photon cannonns next to the nexus.Now also scout him, with a observer or probe, and look what he got. If he got only mostly wraiths, build 1 stargate and start making constant corsairs, as long as he has pretty much air. Also keep making dragoons and probes. Make more gateways where you'll build dragoons. Now, if he mostly has wraiths/valkyries , gogo and attack with everything you got. Not probes tho. Make a new expansion meanwhile. Keep on making corsairs and dragoons and more gateways. If all your gateways are building units and you have 1000 spare money, you build 4 more gateways. Go on and finish whatever tech you want, but most of the army must be dragoons/corsairs/observers etc as long as he makes AIR. If he is switching to battlecruisers, start making a arbiter or two with freeze tech (statis field). Also you can do dark archons and mind control the battle cruisers. Keep making dragoons tho, so you'll slow him down. Remember to expand alot, and do ALOT of gateways.

[own3d0406]

^^That's basically what everyone else has been saying, except you just lengthened it. >.>

[Ahzz]

maybe some parts here and there, but all the advice given for the guy was a bit off and they don't work well together, also, for example, superior wolfs 10000 goons and cannons hardly help anything, I also told him more accurate build orders and better unit selections and alot more.

[Hasuak]

Okay. We had one match this time, and decided not to attack in first 20min. I pumped one full team of zealots, with 2 goons and one archon, and another team full of dark templars. Then i went to air support, and made full team of corsairs. Time was up, and my friend attacked. My corsairs survived about 5seconds in his 2 full team valkyrie attack, and so vent my 2 carriers, that i made for support for base. I really dont know what to do anymore. He killed my zealots and dark templars with wraiths and science vessels. Should i leave the zealots on Aiur and create only Goons?

[Ahzz]

.... read my damn advice.

Also, stop the "20 minutes no rush" stuff, its stupid since you can have 200/200 of any unit during that time

[own3d0406]

.... read my damn advice.

Also, stop the "20 minutes no rush" stuff, its stupid since you can have 200/200 of any unit during that time

Quoted for the truth.

[SilverCrusader]

true, there are no rules in StarCraft for the players, the programmers set all the rules, and made sure no one can really break them (besides hackers... curse all of you!)

[andman3000]

How about adding a computer or two and hope he just rushed by one of them? Then after the comp attacks then you attack.

[Ahzz]

READ MY FIRST POST... Can't be that hard.

[MrBobby]

lol. that's all i'm gonna say. lol.



here's my advice.
1. play lots of 1v1s on bnet and get better, coz you suck (no offence, so did we all one time. hey, i still do. not this much tho :p)
2. watch pro replays of TvP and see how they do it.
3. listen to ahzz.
4. now go and win.

ps your problem is probably just that you're doing everything way too slow and stuff like that. hence my advice for practising. try and get speed up. oh, i dont expect you could post a rep of you playing PvT could you?

[SilverCrusader]

actually, that will work, cause if he is donating all his money to air, just wait till you have 24 zerglings, GG NO RE

[Ixion]

cannons goons and observers to start out. once you have that expo use cannons and goons to defend that. Expo again same process. Each time you expo make more gateways and more probes. Then you have the expos, macro and mass to just crush him if he's just turtling. good way to beat tanks only is goons with range and zealots with speed up. dont forget storm if the tanks are grouped or he tries to use bc.