Post Your Off-The-Wall Strat!

[GenocideAlive]

Seeing as how we could use a little action in here, I thought I could post a little something about things we do to throw off our opponents. It could be something as slight as going Immolation on your Demon Hunter first or something as huge as an entirely different build / strategy.

One of my favorite things to do as NE is pick the Warden and go Blink/SS. It's hilarious. You'd be surprised how well she harasses the various heroes. UD, Orc, HU, all have a hell of a time trying to do anything with a viscious Warden. If you get her to L6 for full Blink + SS, there's pretty much nothing you can't do to drive your opponent utterly berserk. It can even work in the mirror, if you plan things out properly; her Blink can keep the DH from burning her and also make her better at unit-pursuit.

There are a couple of pros that pick the Warden a lot and her definite strength is that once she gets to L5, she's basically unfair. Two SS's on an intelligence hero and he's pretty much out of luck. It's something fun to do when I'm tired of seeing the DH (basically all the time).

[h0bgawblin]

I'm very fond of my towers only strat. I get a blood mage and instead of a barracks I get a lumber mill. I will militia creep here and there, and tech my ass off to mass morts+ invis. I just use a blimp to tower harrass, meanwhile, I'll invis mort them to hell. Or, I use my maximum armor knights, creep that pally, upgrade knights and get priests. Then, inner fire + scroll of prot + level 2 pally arua. I ussually go solo pally on this, but I throw in panda or pit lord sometimes. Miss on haze mitigates a lot of damage, and howl isn't bad either.

[GroG]

As you guys know, I try crap out on ladder all the time (check out the amateur replays thread if you haven't done so already).

I was getting pretty good with solo pitlord, I even had different strategies and playstyles with him in different matchups.

I always wanted to get good with Alchemist, but I just don't think he has that great of abilities that allow you to use him well (yeah, transmute is good, but how do you get to it..?), he might be a good 2nd or 3rd hero but other than that.. eh. I really liked using DR for drain life for a while, but that was only good vs int heros and weak units, and if I got good positioning with her.

I'd prolly start using soul burn/ incinerate FL or possibly missile tinker if I start playing again (tried missile tinker a few times, freaking hard to pull off, theres a rep with him in the thread if you missed it).

Other than heroes, unit wise, I thought some great strats you don't see often but you can still pull off in game is hero/huntress creepjacking into chippo, creep/expo (mini-townhall) based hh/walker/tauren, and creepjacking ghoul/shee/stat (AMS). People try to hard to make cookie cutter work, they don't try enough just playing a good solid game while combining other units to the mix to complement their armies.

Personally, I never saw much in the way of faerie dragons (except when Glade played.. thats why I liked him so much) and MG's. Those were 2 underused units, IMO.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Dual SH in 2v2 AT is so very, very funny. Wisp and I used to go TC/Pitlord second after dual SH for mass stun/stomp/damage reduction. Funny thing was, we actually managed to win with it. Macromoney, my old 2s AT buddy, and I, used to win on a regular basis with it! :)

[GenocideAlive]

I'll have to agree with you on the FDs, because I use them to great effect against HU and UD. Against HU, they're a no-brainer. There's not entirely too much a HU can do without their caster-based army, but for some reason every NE feels like they HAVE to get plowed at tier 2 until they get their Master Bears. While they seem like a wasted unit against UD, they remove statues from the game and deal some nice damage to heroes.

MGs, however, are not underused. They're simply too food intensive. In an equal food army, their Taunt isn't worth their mediocre DPS and slow speed. They're decent in small numbers (2-3) when you're facing an almost entirely magic/piercing army like fiend/destroyer, but the problem with that is that you still need piercing damage backup. Archers can be nuked, dryads will be in low numbers, tend to do crappy damage, and are easily fiend FF'd dead.

I find that PL makes a great third hero, but can't agree with the "first hero" idea. In nearly every circumstance I see him used, I look at it and think, PL 2nd or 3rd would have worked just as well. He's just a poor primary hero, IMO. They need to up Cleave damage before I'd consider him a primary. Otherwise, Howl is crazy good at L1, and doesn't have much difference between L1-L2, and is worthless for creeping.

[Prozerran]

Here's one... sort of revised it for the fun of teching faster than UD :) Let me know how it works for you if you try it.

Bloodmage/Panda Hyper-tech Countering Abuse

The Build

5 Peasants to Gold
First Peasant out => Lumbermill
Next Peasant => Tower (Arcane)
Next Peasant => Farm
Next Peasant => Tower (Guard)
Next Peasant => Farm
Peasants to 14 Control
Tech at 210 Wood (or as soon as your 14th Peasant comes out)
Alter at 50 Wood - Bloodmage of course
2-3 more towers (Guard of course)
Vault & Blacksmith when Alter is complete

Use militia/towers to defend yourself. Your Bloodmage will come out as you reach Tier 2. Go to the Tavern and take the Panda. Take them to your opponent's base to scout/harass (nothing major, just get a sense of what you're up against and take out some peasants/Aco's/Wisps/peons with Dual AoE). Your opponent is probably teching to Tier 2 at this point, so your harass should be effective.

Anyways, in any match-up you'll initially operate from a Sanctum and a Workshop in some capacity, it's more than likely you'll go Caster/Mortar from here in most cases, but let's get more specific for those instances where you won't.

Orc

Probably wondering if Mass Wyvs could be a problem here for Caster/Mortar. Flying Machines, though not upgraded, are a very reasonable solution because of the slow firing wyvs, so don't fret. Max out on casters, and add a third Sanctum for additional Sorc production. Avoid the Orc until you have Master Priests and Sorcs, then go in for the kill.

UD

Caster/Mortar will flourish until UD Tier 3, then you'll run into Destro's, so you'll counter with Flying Machines and get tromped by Aboms. This is where an expo and 2 Aviaries are essential, so don't neglect to get that expo before you tech. Your Casters/Mortars/AoE should hold you until then.

NE

Ahh, this match-up offers a few options. Caster/Mortar is fine, but you may find that teching straight to Tier 3 and putting up 2 Workshops and a Sanctum is better. Invisi-Mortar is just a bitch for NE, and this, followed by Mass Flying Machines to go expo hunting could result in a win without a single battle. If anything, it's fun to see an NE try to expo all over the map on a teching Human just to watch each expo fall to a couple of control groups worth of Flying Machines.

Mirror

If you know your opponent is Human and you're trying this strategy out, skip it and play as you normally would. Defended footies are a bitch for your towers, and your opponent, realizing you're dumb enough to fast tech against him, will more than likely trounce you. Now, suppose you get a random opponent, you don't know they random'd Human, and you follow this build. Always scout a Random opponent with your first peasant out and continue the build with the next peasant. If you see they are Hu, start speed building an Alter w/ 3 Peasants. Don't worry, all is not lost. This is tricky, but go with it.

First of all, don't tech at 14 Peasants. Instead, drop another farm to give yourself 30 supply and continue pumping Peasants. Get your Bloodmage out and use militia to creep him to level 3 (FS, SM, FS) by clearing two expo points and a green camp, in that order. Keep your peasant production up, you'll lose quite a few during this time, but hopefully they won't be killed by enemy units. Now is the time to separate your Militia into 2-3 groups of five peasants. Link all your towers into one control group and use Tab and Alt to target your Arcane tower on the AM.

Your opponent will undoubtedly come to pound you into oblivion, may avoid teching or expoing to try to end the game at the beginning, which is exactly what you want to have happen (If he doesn't, count on a Fast Expo from your opponent, and follow suit). Militia will hold harassment off until they decide to go away and creep/expand. This is when you expand. Once your expansion is up and running, begin your tech and take your lvl 3+ BM over for harassing your opponent.

By now, shops should carry invis potions, boots of speed, and Tele Staff. Grab any of these items that are available and go scope out your opponent. Did he tech? Did he expo? He's probably put up an expo and in the process of teching, same as you, but you have more peasants and a big, fat AoE spell to abuse. Find your opponent creeping to see what he's up to, try to steal item drops when you do this. Go harass his expo (if he has one up) w/ Flamestrike targeting enemy peasants. Teleport out when your opponent comes back to defend. Buy a clarity potion, invis potion, rinse and repeat.

At Tier 2, you'll know what your opponent intends to do. Go pick up the Panda. Instead of invisi-Mortar or caster/mortar, you'll probably get better results if you throw down a Workshop, Sanctum, and 2 Aviaries for Mass Air/Mortar support. Upgrade priest Adept training and pump Hawks. When you have 9-10 (or when resources allow), Tech to T3. This is situational based on how your opponent reacts. If your opponent masses casters/breakers/mortars, Mass Air/Breaker/Mortar will delay your tech, as it is resource intensive, but a strong combination against Human. Another option for your opponent is to mass air, in which case splashing in 8-12 FM's couldn't hurt. Also, you can expect Knights at Tier 3 in response to Breakers, and Mass FM's may appear. Keep BoF handy in later battles as a response.

At any rate, you may get some dandy results from Sorc Invis on your Hawks. This is a popular tactic used by Insomnia and adopted by Todd in last year's Mass Hawk/FM's strat to surprise UD opponents. Works well on most Human opponents. At any rate, don't engage your opponent until you have Adept Priests that can dispel slow, and be sure to carry healing scrolls and scrolls of protection before any battle. Please don't try to micro your way out of an uphill aerial battle when you don't have dispel to counter slow, then come back here and complain that this strategy 'suxxors' and is 'for newbs'.

EDIT: Added Replay simulating this scenario. Screwed up the harass, got ahead of myself a little, but had I creeped the Green camp BEFORE going to harass, it probably would have been more effective. Blah...

Things to Remember

Staffing. At Tier 3, get a Staff. Get an Orb of Fire for your Panda. Be sure to get all the Building Upgrades from your Lumbermill. Haze/BoF/Flamestrike is a bitch, and you should abuse it as long as you have mana. Militia aren't expendible. Micromanage them or you will lose. Regen Scrolls on Peasants whenever your opponent tries to harass you. Don't give away peasant kills to your opponent because you forgot to heal them after a push on your base. Also, add mana potions to your Panda until your Bloodmage can siphon.

[h0bgawblin]

Proz that strat is sex, however, on mirror I would go alter instead of mill first. Get an am to blizz harass, then get a blood mage, simply because I love that against human. Hell, I may even go AM/missle tinker for amazing creeping. I will HAVE to try this strategy when I get back.

Also, I once faced a decent MG strat, warden first, keeper second, dots/archers dryads and 1-2 mg's. The idea is to focus heros and have mg's in the middle of the enemy army, if the hero runs after the SS and focus fire, entangle. If the hero isn't dead after the entangle, MG taunt. It's rediculious for hero levels and crap, solo warden is also possible especially vs human.

[Prozerran]

Proz that strat is sex, however, on mirror I would go alter instead of mill first. Get an am to blizz harass, then get a blood mage, simply because I love that against human. Hell, I may even go AM/missle tinker for amazing creeping. I will HAVE to try this strategy when I get back.

Fixed. 2/8/07.

[RedRagToAnOrc]

Here's a funny Orc vs NE replay between me and a clanmate where I go BM/Tinker on TM with a Graiderpult push at Tier 2. I get a couple of pretty awesome Pocket Factory surrounds, but at least it's a little off-the-wall.

[GenocideAlive]

New Thread, check it out!