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Neo
02-07-2007, 9:18 AM
Note: I don't mind macs. They are kind of cool, in a way. However, Mac Users are what I "hate" most =P


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006031,00.html

Article here:

I hate Macs


Charlie Brooker
Monday February 5, 2007
The Guardian

Unless you have been walking around with your eyes closed, and your head encased in a block of concrete, with a blindfold tied round it, in the dark - unless you have been doing that, you surely can't have failed to notice the current Apple Macintosh campaign starring David Mitchell and Robert Webb, which has taken over magazines, newspapers and the internet in a series of brutal coordinated attacks aimed at causing massive loss of resistance. While I don't have anything against shameless promotion per se (after all, within these very brackets I'm promoting my own BBC4 show, which starts tonight at 10pm), there is something infuriating about this particular blitz. In the ads, Webb plays a Mac while Mitchell adopts the mantle of a PC. We know this because they say so right at the start of the ad.

"Hello, I'm a Mac," says Webb.

"And I'm a PC," adds Mitchell.

They then perform a small comic vignette aimed at highlighting the differences between the two computers. So in one, the PC has a "nasty virus" that makes him sneeze like a plague victim; in another, he keeps freezing up and having to reboot. This is a subtle way of saying PCs are unreliable. Mitchell, incidentally, is wearing a nerdy, conservative suit throughout, while Webb is dressed in laid-back contemporary casual wear. This is a subtle way of saying Macs are cool.

The ads are adapted from a near-identical American campaign - the only difference is the use of Mitchell and Webb. They are a logical choice in one sense (everyone likes them), but a curious choice in another, since they are best known for the television series Peep Show - probably the best sitcom of the past five years - in which Mitchell plays a repressed, neurotic underdog, and Webb plays a selfish, self-regarding poseur. So when you see the ads, you think, "PCs are a bit rubbish yet ultimately lovable, whereas Macs are just smug, preening tossers." In other words, it is a devastatingly accurate campaign.

I hate Macs. I have always hated Macs. I hate people who use Macs. I even hate people who don't use Macs but sometimes wish they did. Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

PCs are the ramshackle computers of the people. You can build your own from scratch, then customise it into oblivion. Sometimes you have to slap it to make it work properly, just like the Tardis (Doctor Who, incidentally, would definitely use a PC). PCs have charm; Macs ooze pretension. When I sit down to use a Mac, the first thing I think is, "I hate Macs", and then I think, "Why has this rubbish aspirational ornament only got one mouse button?" Losing that second mouse button feels like losing a limb. If the ads were really honest, Webb would be standing there with one arm, struggling to open a packet of peanuts while Mitchell effortlessly tore his apart with both hands. But then, if the ads were really honest, Webb would be dressed in unbelievably po-faced avant-garde clothing with a gigantic glowing apple on his back. And instead of conducting a proper conversation, he would be repeatedly congratulating himself for looking so cool, and banging on about how he was going to use his new laptop to write a novel, without ever getting round to doing it, like a mediocre idiot.

Cue 10 years of nasal bleating from Mac-likers who profess to like Macs not because they are fashionable, but because "they are just better". Mac owners often sneer that kind of defence back at you when you mock their silly, posturing contraptions, because in doing so, you have inadvertently put your finger on the dark fear haunting their feeble, quivering soul - that in some sense, they are a superficial semi-person assembled from packaging; an infinitely sad, second-rate replicant who doesn't really know what they are doing here, but feels vaguely significant and creative each time they gaze at their sleek designer machine. And the more deftly constructed and wittily argued their defence, the more terrified and wounded they secretly are.

Aside from crowing about sartorial differences, the adverts also make a big deal about PCs being associated with "work stuff" (Boo! Offices! Boo!), as opposed to Macs, which are apparently better at "fun stuff". How insecure is that? And how inaccurate? Better at "fun stuff", my arse. The only way to have fun with a Mac is to poke its insufferable owner in the eye. For proof, stroll into any decent games shop and cast your eye over the exhaustive range of cutting-edge computer games available exclusively for the PC, then compare that with the sort of rubbish you get on the Mac. Myst, the most pompous and boring videogame of all time, a plodding, dismal "adventure" in which you wandered around solving tedious puzzles in a rubbish magic kingdom apparently modelled on pretentious album covers, originated on the Mac in 1993. That same year, the first shoot-'em-up game, Doom, was released on the PC. This tells you all you will ever need to know about the Mac's relationship with "fun".

Ultimately the campaign's biggest flaw is that it perpetuates the notion that consumers somehow "define themselves" with the technology they choose. If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. Of course, that hasn't stopped me slagging off Mac owners, with a series of sweeping generalisations, for the past 900 words, but that is what the ads do to PCs. Besides, that's what we PC owners are like - unreliable, idiosyncratic and gleefully unfair. And if you'll excuse me now, I feel an unexpected crash coming.

This week: Charlie watched some episodes of Larry Sanders (on his PC). He played the customised Fawlty Towers map for Counterstrike (on his PC). He listened to the Windows startup jingle every 10 minutes as his PC repeatedly rebooted itself.


He commented first with this as well:

CharlieBrooker
February 5, 2007 01:23 AM
Hello. Charlie Brooker here.
I wrote this piffle. Then it was subbed. And whoever subbed it decided to add a bit describing Doom as “the first shoot-em-up game”.
Words fail me.
They also changed every abbreviation -– so “they’re” becomes “they are” and “it’s” becomes “it is”, and so on -- presumably in an attempt to inject a bit more plodding, impersonal joylessness to the whole thing.
Bet they did it on a Mac, too.

So what are your thoughts? I have almost the same feelings, especially about the Mac Ads, they irk me a great deal, though I've gotten over them (plus I just don't watch them anymore).

Barring perhaps AJ, and a few other Mac users i know, it seems as if a great many of them are exactly as described in that article. Heh =)

-Kupa

GenocideAlive
02-07-2007, 9:30 AM
Wow, and +rep for finding that one.

I have always been innately irritated that you cannot customize the hardware on an Apple other than how you order it. What the hell kind of crap is that? I could only imagine a car that had no bolts. But, I'm sure it's infinitely easier to use a Mac, if only "easy" were a goal I had with computers.

Neo
02-07-2007, 12:33 PM
I love various comments on digg (and the original article) with mac users trying to compete against the uber-geeks -- some dude was talking about a 1500-1700 computer he custom built that could out perform any mac, except some 15,000 dollar one, and there were mac-fans like trying to argue with him about it O_o

Hell, everyone has horror stories about PCs and/or Macs. Heh, and talk about crashing a *nix box, I bet thats gotta be pretty horrific, to crash one of the most stable OS's available -- rofl.

-Kupa

ScottieIWU
02-07-2007, 1:19 PM
With fear of this resulting in another Mac vs. PC debate I will enter the ring...

I think Macs simplify the computer process too much. Like GA said, customization and upgrade ability of PCs is key. I am a gamer, so if I go to buy a PC I can buy one that is made for gaming. My mom is very casual, using her computer for the internet and word processing. She can go out and buy a computer that is cheaper to suit her needs.

Want a mac? Well my mom and I are using the same computer and its going to cost the same thing. Worse yet, either my mom is buying far too much computer for her money or (more likely) I am getting a computer that is far underpowered for my needs.

Macs do what they do well, but I think that the new ad campaign is ridiculous and I'm definitely tired of it.

SHISHKABOB
02-07-2007, 3:57 PM
I don't really hate Macs, it's just that I've used PC's all my life and I can't really switch now. But those stupid commercials do piss me off.

I find this relevant: http://mvpc.ytmnd.com/

own3d0406
02-07-2007, 4:30 PM
Those Mac commercials are really misleading. I agree 100 percent with that article.

Quick! Hide this thread! AJ's coming!

bloodbane
02-07-2007, 4:57 PM
i want to play myst it must be challenging

AJ
02-07-2007, 5:07 PM
Thanks for that stirring addition bloodbane.

I've aired my opinion too many times on this site, and you all think me a diehard, pigheaded mac user -- so there's no reason to even articulate the truth.

Yes, the ads could use some .. changes, but the Zune/Vista ads are much worse. So let's be fair. ;)

GenocideAlive
02-07-2007, 5:28 PM
I must spread reputation around before giving it to AJ again?! wth? Man, that "thanks for that stirring addition" remark deserves rep, even if you didn't count the Zune potshot. I will be back, after spreading my peanut-buttery reputation around. I will then add to AJ's glory, for yea, that was indeed a worthy response.

Basan
02-07-2007, 6:46 PM
Great find, Neo. :tup: Lack of customization power and compatibility issues (just not to mention pricey, although slick designed) were what initially drove me away from Mac's and still does. And yeah, that add campaign was great... for me to jester about it. :P
As for the Vista one, I must be under a rock in here because haven't seen much of it. :D

Neo
02-07-2007, 7:04 PM
Please, don't take this find as an endorsement that Macs actually suck. I don't like them a great deal, but I wouldn't mind a mac ibook laptop thingy.

And AJ is a pretty awesome Mac user, and I think he's expressed his annoyance with the Apple ads as well, so its not something thats PC (fanboy) specific.

=P

-Kupa

Dusty
02-07-2007, 8:33 PM
The ads make it out like I do nothing but work on my computer. I DON'T EVEN HAVE OFFICE ON IT!

bobboy
02-07-2007, 8:43 PM
I hate macs. I don't know why. I'm a PC guy, always will be, so I hate any non-PCs for no apparent reason. Plus that damned one button is really annoying. You should've seen me the first time I tried to use a mac.

laineter
02-07-2007, 9:02 PM
Well, I don't use mac's I just used pc only all the time, maybe I don't want to change it coz i'm really comfortable with it. :D

AJ
02-07-2007, 9:08 PM
This thread is like a collection of all the reasons "the other side of the fence" in computing is so disrespected by the Macintosh community.

*sigh*

DragonPaladin
02-07-2007, 9:16 PM
All I'm willing to say this is, DEATH TO THE DOCK!

Wick3d
02-08-2007, 1:51 AM
Just throwing this out there: In the american versions of these commercials, the PC is played by John Hodgeman and the Mac is Justin Long. I assume Mitchell and Webb play them in the UK versions.

That is all I got from that article, because I love Mitchell and Webb.

Black.Ice
02-08-2007, 1:55 AM
The divide between Macs and PC's are only as big as you make them out to be. Use a computer to be used. If you were, say, marrying the god-damned computer then nit-pick at it until it's perfect. Otherwise, just use it as an instrument and move on.

To me, arguing about Macs and PC's is like arguing about a socket-wrench vs a normal wrench.

Person 1: OMG, socket wrench is so good. It has so many features and has so many applications that I can do with it. It has upgradeable hardware and can fit different sizes.
Person 2: F U, bitch. A normal wrench is sleek, simple and it doesn't freaking crash on you!


It's a never ending cycle... Use what you want, and get on with it.

Leosam096
02-08-2007, 7:57 AM
I myself don't hate macs, I just became a mac user myself. I mean hey, I long to play games again too in a PC. The Mac and the PC will, in some way if ever, differ from each other and it counts which one we like better.

Neo
02-08-2007, 8:59 AM
people complaining about single mac mouses need to stop, any mac user has a 2 button mouse, or else they are still living in 1990.

See the problem isn't with Macs themselves (Although the article does a good job with that ;P) I find the most problem/annoyance I have with "apple" are the users.

You mention a PC, or Windows, or whatever, and they go insane and act as if your computer is a Piece of Shit. Well mine has never crashed, mine has never been infected, and I leave mine on for fucking weeks at a time without it slowing down.

Some Mac users seem to think that all PCs suck, or always crash. That would be like me assuming all Mac users actually work on their computer. The ultimate hypocrisy though is when Mac'ers accuse Microsoft of being some huge monopoly.

I just kind of laugh at that. Apple is a true monopoly. I can get a PC from any number of different OEM-People-Things, but where can I get a mac? Apple. Only from Apple, or through an "Apple-Authorized-Reseller" or whatever.

Though to be fair, apparently on TSS they built a mac from scratch, so I suppose if you are really that into macs... ;)

edit: and I've come across mac users who act like total morons online as well. Just because PCs hold a higher share doesn't mean mac doesn't have their own group of newbie idgits.

-Kupa

GenocideAlive
02-08-2007, 10:55 AM
This thread is like a collection of all the reasons "the other side of the fence" in computing is so disrespected by the Macintosh community.
That's OK. After all, there are few things as telling of one's intelligence / savvy / cool than whatever brand of product they buy. Personally, I think Mac's elitest marketing ploy is working out great for them. It's an excuse for their vast minority and a consumer draw all in one.

We're not being vastly outsold, outproduced, and beaten in nearly every corner of the market, we're an elite product seller! Despite that our products cost relatively similar amounts and do pretty much the exact same thing, we're elite. That's why we're struggling to maintain market share.

Dayoh
02-08-2007, 8:08 PM
Youtube has all the answers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVVUNQUTGj4&NR

AJ
02-08-2007, 11:15 PM
.. come on.
at least acknowledge that the windows world can be just as biased.

ala that shitty video.
considering the modern Mac OS to have the same faults as the old OS 7 system you used in gradeschool, is like me assuming Vista sucks because of the 9x era Windows systems we also grew up with.

Dayoh
02-09-2007, 12:45 AM
In SDD at school (SDD = Software Design and Dev.)
It was the end of the lesson and we were just discussing comp stuff and my teacher is trying to convince us to get Macs, so were like hmm lets ebay em.

Why do they have so lil RAM and HD's?
From the sound of macs all they do is allow you to do cool stuff to images, make movies and its an add-on to your ipod.

AJ
02-09-2007, 2:18 AM
The iMacs come default with 512MB RAM and 160GB HDs. They are consumer computers and serve that purpose fine, there's a newly purchased 17" and 20" at my house, both are just fine in regards to space/zippiness.

The Mac Pros default with 1GB RAM and 250GB of HD space. And that's just the first HD bay.

Looking at ebay isn't going to help at all, that's like me shopping at CostCo and saying all the computers there are crappy wintels, because they are, their market dictates that they can sell those boxes-o-crap. eBay searching brings up mostly older machines, not newer ones.

Basan
02-09-2007, 5:04 AM
Please, don't take this find as an endorsement that Macs actually suck. I don't like them a great deal, but I wouldn't mind a mac ibook laptop thingy.

And AJ is a pretty awesome Mac user, and I think he's expressed his annoyance with the Apple ads as well, so its not something thats PC (fanboy) specific.

=P

I admit that don't fond'em that much due to obvious price tag, which usually came more expensive than PC's.
Although what I hated more was the fanboyism that most Mac' users that I've met in real life displayed. More concretely, the general "holier than thou" attitude that they had.

Btw, I just felt that needed to make this clear. I don't anything against AJ, but sometimes I just feel like pulling his chain off (like I do to some other fellas in power positions) and that his the easiest way to do it, imao. ;)
And the same extends to other Mac' users at WB's, like for instance Fratt' and Modred.

This thread is like a collection of all the reasons "the other side of the fence" in computing is so disrespected by the Macintosh community.

*sigh*

Although I tend to agree, I usually see the opposite a lot as well so why can't we can it for the 'day'? :)

The divide between Macs and PC's are only as big as you make them out to be. Use a computer to be used. If you were, say, marrying the god-damned computer then nit-pick at it until it's perfect. Otherwise, just use it as an instrument and move on.

To me, arguing about Macs and PC's is like arguing about a socket-wrench vs a normal wrench.

Person 1: OMG, socket wrench is so good. It has so many features and has so many applications that I can do with it. It has upgradeable hardware and can fit different sizes.
Person 2: F U, bitch. A normal wrench is sleek, simple and it doesn't freaking crash on you!


It's a never ending cycle... Use what you want, and get on with it.

Couldn't agree more. Pick what you feel better using n' leave others to do the same. Casting opinion judgements onto others shouldn't be the real issue at hands here.
I'm :cool: with it, if you are too.

Youtube has all the answers.
...

I laughed. Seriously, I laughed. But more at his ranting posture and way of acting than anything else (i.e., the arguments shown). :P
Extremism, ftl.

Dayoh
02-09-2007, 6:48 AM
The iMacs come default with 512MB RAM and 160GB HDs. They are consumer computers and serve that purpose fine, there's a newly purchased 17" and 20" at my house, both are just fine in regards to space/zippiness.

The Mac Pros default with 1GB RAM and 250GB of HD space. And that's just the first HD bay.

hmm that sounds alright, although the whole idea of toss-and-go when u need a new one would be good if they were more affordable, like DVD players nowadays.

Macs are cool if your into making photo albums, movies, photoshop.
I think there are some games you can play on it like WC3, photoshop the list goes on ;)

If in doubt of a Mac or a PC, we could always give Linux ago :P

Ghost_Assasain
02-09-2007, 7:12 AM
If macs have taught us anything its that incompetence is sexy.

Macs have their uses, they have the shiney little programs for movies and images and stuff.

And atleast windows fans realise and admit that the OS has many problems. (Blue screen of death etc.)

Neo
02-09-2007, 2:16 PM
.. come on.
at least acknowledge that the windows world can be just as biased.

Ok, only if you acknowledge the same about those in the Mac World ;)

-Kupa

AJ
02-09-2007, 3:11 PM
I already have. I hate Apple-fanboy syndrome as much as the next guy, but the problem is that some people fall in love with certain aspects of the system and wind up pitfalling their own arguments because of their short-sightedness.

I've been using and working on Apple computers since I was born, I've gone through four major transitions of processor & OS with them in that time, and I've had computers that I have loved and hated (which i will accept on all of your behalf as well, since no one here has had any machine Apple or otherwise that they always had work 100% properly).

I am not the typical fanboy, I have years of experience on both platforms, both as a younger child, and as I grew older, and both as a consumer (read: novice) and as a programmer (read: ub3r novice). Of course I understand your point, and in one of your many other Windows/Mac threads I already said that I believe Vista represents the best Windows OS shipped to date.

I have nothing against Windows, I just find so many more things better on this side of the fence. And since cost has never been a major hurdle, I enjoy where I'm at -- and could only wish the rest of you see the world from on top of my hill. ;)

Neo
02-09-2007, 3:30 PM
This is why I love you AJ =)

my comment wasn't supposed to be taken as serious.

-Kupa

GenocideAlive
02-09-2007, 4:40 PM
Whew. Butter up and paint those cheeks red, Kupa, you're in for an ass-kissathon.

Modred
02-10-2007, 3:23 AM
And the same extends to other Mac' users at WB's, like for instance Fratt' and Modred.
So you know, I make most of my posts from Windows XP. The Mac is more of my work computer. Somewhat ironic considering the "PC is for work, Mac is for fun" image that's become popular. :O

If in doubt of a Mac or a PC, we could always give Linux ago
Linux can be nice, but by and large it isn't practical for the general public. Now if more mainstream vendors would install it by default on machines and provide support, it could make a sizable dent in the PC market. However, the vendors are largely unable to do this, as Microsoft licensing severely restricts their ability to promote other operating systems. And regardless of the philosophical and ethical issues around free vs. proprietary software, no major vendor can afford to have Microsoft cut off the cheap supply of XP and Vista. After all, a large portion of the desktop userbase expects Windows. And we shouldn't also forget the "it's expensive so it must be better than the cheap/free product" line of thought, flawed though it may be.

I'm personally rooting for GNU's Hurd system, although it's current state is immature and progressing somewhat slowly. It's rather different from Linux, Windows, or OS X from a design perspective; instead of a "kernel" that maintains the system, Hurd uses a more modular design that constructs a fully functional system from multiple parts. One of the goals is to provide a way for a base set of functionality to be available across the system, but allow individual users to add new modules to suit their own needs without endangering the system as a whole or requiring administrator/root access. If it manages to speed up development and can be made user friendly in the line of Windows, I imagine it could really take off as the system of choice.

Basan
02-12-2007, 10:00 AM
So you know, I make most of my posts from Windows XP. The Mac is more of my work computer. Somewhat ironic considering the "PC is for work, Mac is for fun" image that's become popular. :O

And prey tell, please enlighten me where (in here) did I made such comparison? ;)

Furthermore, a new viable option for OS would be great to see imo. :) Maybe it could ruin the somewhat biased crap that computers come by default with Windows or their Mac' OS equivalent. :P

Modred
02-12-2007, 12:37 PM
And prey tell, please enlighten me where (in here) did I made such comparison? ;)
All you did was group me in the Mac fans. The comparison of PC for work and Mac for fun wasn't your own, but merely the subliminal message of all the Mac vs. PC ads that have been out recently. Heck, one even comes out and says it directly, when the PC is covered in refrigerator art and is made to look like he can only handle office related tasks instead of home computing.

Basan
02-12-2007, 1:49 PM
All you did was group me in the Mac fans. ...

I believe to have always have used the term "Mac' users" but whatever may rock your boat... *Sheesh* :shiftyl:

King_Critter
02-13-2007, 12:45 AM
Ok, I've never seen the ad that's the basis for this thread, but I think this is a parody of it...

(How I love StumbleUpon ^_^)