View Full Version : Starting WH40K
GenocideAlive
01-16-2007, 1:47 PM
Well, I've been looking around for a new addiction, and I've settled on WH40K. After being bored out of my mind by WCIII and its predictable sameness, I have elected to take up a much more rigorous study of the applications behind the tabletop game. I'm completely uninterested in the video games, as I consider them to be largely inferior in gameplay to WCIII. I am not interested in devolving my gametastes.
A primary point of interest I have run into is a matter of understanding the game. Of course, I have a rudimentary grasp of several of the concepts, but I do not have any clue as to what makes a successful army or what the generally accepted tournament rules are. So if someone could give me some direction in that regard, it'd be great.
A secondary point of interest is the way that the varying units operate. How can I glean more information in regard to those particulars? Yet another secondary point is what is considered popular successful strategies.
My final question lay in what I may need to get started. Dice? Landscapes? Help? I need something to use my creative energy, and I'm tired of squandering it on 15 year olds who copy professional players and BM me regardless. I will eventually need paints, right? And...other stuff?
Well, first thing, it's one of those more expensive hobbies. If you want to start collecting, in which case, it's best to start small.
You will need paints eventually and if possible start as soon as possible with them. Practice makes perfect, etc. You can get a Starter Paint set but by buying that you can only get models of Space Marines.
However, whether you plan to play Marines or not, I can tell you they are actually quite easy to paint and the fact that you can make them as detailed as you like has a lot of appeal. A similar such race for painting would be Necrons and, to a similar extent, Tyranids. All this depends on preferred methods of painting, of course.
When it comes to actually choosing an army, I suggest that you choos an army you both like the look of and the backstory of. When I was playing Necrons, I ended up getting trounced at first, but their backstory was interesting enough that I perservered regardless. By comparison, I don't 'connect' as well with the Tyranids (both due to backstory and the design of most of the models) so have lost some willingness to collect them. Therefore, if you are serious about the army's backstory, it's one of those things that helps you keep collecting them.
Battle of Macragge is a good place to start. You get a miniture rulebook, terrain, 10 Marines and a few Tyranids. The way it is written allows you to gather the rules as you go along and it actually plays somewhat like a board game so it's relatively accessable to anyone who isn't familiar with the basic mechanics. After you have picked a race (look at the codexes, I'm sure store members won't mind you thumbing through them), you'll need a codex and then buy a small force. In the larger rule book (Not sure in $, £40 is the cost here, so quite expensive but not a regular fee) there's a mod called Combat Patrol which is suited to smaller scale games. If you build a combat patrol and play the game in-store for a while, you should get a feel for the game. (I warn you, if you go Necrons though, they are much less fun in Combat Patrol than in a proper 1500 match)
Dice: I suggest you just buy Bog-standard GW dice if you're going to buy any from Games Workshop. The fancy dice are nice but, ultimately, have no further practical application that being expensive dice.
Successful army depends on the race, and it can vary in tournament play. For example, on Relic Forums I have read that Orks are not too popular in Tournies (apparantly rather under-powered) but they are still collected by many for less competetive play. Rules vary from tourney to tourney but generally they ban overpowered units in certain cases where the Codexes have been exploited. Other rules include awards for best painted army, best sportsman, etc. I've probably missed a bit and I'll try and add more later.
Board size is usually 4x6 foot and it is suggested a quarter of that be terrain. The crashed shuttle from the Battle of Macrage set will go some way towards that.
There isn't much need to buy the 'How to paint Citadel Minitures' guide since most of the techniques you need are so basic that staff will probably teach you them anyway and more advanced techniques can be found in guides on the net.
Races:
First, there are a number of different 'human' factions (I use the term human loosely because as a fluff* monkey, I don't see the Marines as fully human)
Imperial Guard
Basically, your average Imperial citizen given a Lasgun and a bit of cruddy armour and told to kill aliens in the name of the Emperor. Weak basic troops, rely on massed firepower to win through. Lots of heavy armour, some doctrines allow 'Armoured Companies' (not sure if these are allowed in tournies). Some players see them as the ture heroes of the IoM since they are not super-enhanced soldiers. Life in the Guard is quite brutal; it's common for Commisars to perform field executions to force men to fight harder (not sure that this is a TT rule though, probably more fluff)
Space Marines
Elite of the Imperium, the Angels of Death or Adeptus Astartes. Clad in 'Power Armour' (not the most imaginative name, I know) they are resolute and very powerful. Some good armour support and unlike the IG they can hold their own in close combat. They are genetically enhanced so much they are no longer humans in terms of genetic makeup. However, they are perhaps humanity's greatest warriors
Inquisition
Witchhunters
Sisters of Battle wear Power Armour and carry Bolters, like the Marines but aren't as strong since the same enhancements are not compatible with female genes. Sometimes refferes to as 'Bolter-Bitches' because of this. They have very eccentric vehicles and a fetish for fire based weaponry. Withchunters are supposed to hunt rogue psykers, if I remember correctly.
Deamonhunters
They oppose the forces of raw Chaos: Deamons. A fair chunk of Psychic power in the form of the Grey Knights. the GKs are not only Space Marines, but formidible Psykers too. Hard to play, I hear. they can also be backed up by Stormtroopers, elite Imperial Guardsmen who also fight for the Witch and Xeno hunters.
Xenohunters
Hunt aliens. Don't actually have a codex yet but IoM armies can take Deathwatch Kill-teams, squads of veteran Space Marines.
Basically, the bread and butter troops of the Inquisition are Stormtroopers and some form of Power Armoured warrior
Then come the forces of Chaos. Mainly Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Space Marines
10, 000 years ago, half of the Emperor's Space Marine Legions sold their brothers out and turned to the Dark Chaos Gods. Led by Warmaster Horus in the imaginatively named Horus Heresy they almost ruined the Imperium and confined the now mortally crippled Emperor to 'the Golden Throne'
Virtually immortal, backed up by deamons and strenghtened by the warp but they lack the advances in technology of the Loyalist Marines and their discipline. Chaos Undivided incorporates the powers of all four gods and then there are individual armies that devote themsleves to one god.
Khorne-The Blood God
Followers of Khorne love close combat and kill in the name of Khorne. Their infamous battlecry is 'Blood for the Blood God, Skulls for the Skull Throne!' Basically, blood drenched pshychos. their infamous champion Kharn the Betrayer turned on his own men when they wouldn't fight the Space Marines, such was his bloodlust.
Nurgle-The God of Illness and Decay
Nurgle Marines look like they are falling to pieces, but this actually belies their resiliance in battle. Nurgles Rot means they spread infection and decay on the battle-field. Unfortunately, this can apply to non-Nurgle Chaos forces too.
Slaneesh-Prince of Excess
The only god seen as female (at least to the Eldar), Slaneesh is basically the god of indulgence. Followers of Slaneesh are obsessed intense and extreme feelings. These range from the intense pain of battle to (most-likely) sexual rituals. Basically a load of BDSM freaks.
Tzeench-Changer of the Ways
The Chaos God of sourcery, rather enigmatic and less raving loony than Khorne. A lot more subtle. The Thousands Sons are actually soul bound pieces of armour, the warriors inside long ago turned to dust.
Then come the aliens, the Xenos.
Eldar
The Eldar used to rule the galaxy, but grew decedant and selfish. They in some ways grew close to the followings of Slanees, but never worshipped her. This is partly because it was the Eldar's decadance that actually gave birth to Slaneesh, the dark god's birth cries tearing a hole in the Eldar empire and reducing them to a race of nomadic aliens, travelling in giant 'Craftworlds'. Their technology is advanced but they are actually rather easy to kill. While they can dish it out on the battle field, they certainly have a harder time taking it than say, the power armoured Space Marines. A rigid cast system has so far stopped them sliding back into the ways of their estranged bretheren...
Dark Eldar
The Dark Eldar have fled to their horrific homeworld in the Warp, Commoragh. They are essentially exactly the same as the Eldar at the time of the fall of their empire. Decedant, they torture others to repenish their souls, which are slowly drained by Slaneesh. DE soldiers are like Slaneeshi warriors in some ways but they do not actually follow Slaneesh, rather fear her. They are a dangerous hit and run force. However, they haven't been updated in ages and don't have much influnece galactically in the backstory.
Orks
A green tide of monsters that have a strange affinity for technology despite their primitive and primal nature. Love a good scrap. Indeed, it's all they live for. A rather amusing force in some ways. It has been said that 'Red wunz go Fasta!' is the Orkish equivalent of 'there is no Spoon'.
40K Orks, however, are a far cry from the nobler Orcs of WarCraft.
Tau
A vibrant and young race who have made massive leaps and bounds in terms of technology. They utilise high powered weapons and battlesuits (which are very much in the anime 'gundam' style). Relatively poor at close combat, due to a lack of depth perception and attention span, they have formed an alliance with the Kroot, savage bird-like carnivores that absorb the DNA of their victims...often through eating the dead bodies mid-battle. They are also allied with the Vespids, insectiods who also fight for the 'Greater Good'
As it sounds, the Greater Good is a Tau philosophy much along the line of the saying 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.' The Ethereal Caste lead the Tau through propaganda and possibly even more sinister means. With the Tau, there are two options: Join the Greater Good, or die.
Tyranids
Malevolent creatures from another galaxy that seek to consume everything in their path. Aesthetically similar to the Zerg from StarCraft, or the Bugs from StarShip troopers. To be honest though, that's all they really do; eat.
Necrons (<3)
Long ago, one of the first races, the Necrontyr, suffered under their fierce star, living short and cancer ridden lives in envy of the other sentient race, the Old Ones. One day, they stumbled upon even older beings, creatures that have been present since the birth of the universe; the Star Gods, or C'tan. The Necrontyr wished to destroy the Old Ones but their cold science was defeated by the warp spawned magicks of the Old Ones. However, the C'tan gave the Necrontyr a cahnce to be immortal. The C'tan, however, tricked the Necrontyr, purging the entire race and trapping their souls in bodies made of living metal. The Nectontyr became the Necrons and all that remained of them was their hatred of the Old Ones. The Old Ones tried to create more races, the Eldar and the Krork to name but a few, to fend off the Necrons. However, the Old Ones' meddling with the warp resulted in 'Enslavers' pouring into the material universe, killing everything but the Necrons and C'tan, which they could not harm. However, the C'tan saw their food stocks were being depleted and retreated to tomb worlds on which they would hibernate until life resurfaced in the galaxy.
After 60 million years, the Necrons are beginning to re-awaken and recommence their genocidal pruge of the galaxy in the name of their Star Gods.
I suggest you read up on the races you like the sound of on wikipedia. I've missed a lot out for the sake of brevity and the details of the Warp and such are quite handy to be aquainted with. Also, kong will probably pour some back story into this.
If only to save my fingers and neck from immense pain...
*fluff=backstory and other peripheral information about races not always directly related to the game mechanic. Never bring up fluff as part of rules discussion either, it only goes to dark places...
CrazyTom
01-16-2007, 2:16 PM
Well, White Dwarf is a fanastic magazine that will tell you a lot about the game and how it works. They usually have some battle run-throughs, explaining them step by step. Then there's the various Codexes (sp, yeah) for each individual army. You do have the main rulebook, right? If not then get that.
Which team / race are you going to play? I sorta see you as being a Tau player - the Tau are a force for enlightenment and progression without blind faith in a supremely powerful being. They do stuff for the greater good and are pretty much the only non-xenophobic race in the game.
Then again you might indulge your primitive, animalistic instincts and use Chaos forces. They are the most badass.
Lol, I see GA as Khorne, myself :P
kongurous
01-16-2007, 4:56 PM
Any Commissar may perform a summary execution except Colonel-Commissar Ibram Gaunt.
As for armies, I would definitely recommend the Imperial Guard... but that's just me, seeing as I'm a Guard player. They're by no means a beginner race, but they're fun and I like their backstory.
As earlier stated, the Battle of Macragge set is a good place to begin. It has a watered down rulebook, some beginning units, and you can get a paint set to go with it all for about 50 bucks. If you went the full mile and just bought a codex, the full rulebook, and a 300pt army, you're looking at an expense of about 200 dollars. Yes, 40k is extremely expensive... my army right now must have at least 6,000 invested into it (7500pt IG regiment ftw)
So, what do I recommend? Space Marines/Imperial Guard, or failing that, the Necrons. SM are good for beginners because they're all around powerful, don't know fear, and they look cool. Necrons are also good for beginners, and better the SM for beginners IMO, because they're also very powerful, they look cool, and they have a relatively small selection of units to choose from so you could easily pick out 1000pts of them and be good to go.
Giggilyomeromicon
01-16-2007, 5:01 PM
Honestly, I see GA as being an Imperial Guard player :P.
Warhammer 40k has its on Wiki which would be a good place to get information about the races (unless Kong decides to super post). Remember though, within each army there are individual armies, such as the Thousand Suns for Chaos, Evil Sunz for Orks, Ultramarines for Space Marines, Uthlwe for Eldar, Steel Legion for Imperial Guard etc.
Anyways, here are the links.
Imperium of Man (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperium)
Space Marines (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marines)
Imperial Guard (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Guard)
Chaos (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaos)
Eldar (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eldar)
Orks (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Orks)
Necrons (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Necrons)
Tyranid (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tyranid)
Tau (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau)
kongurous
01-16-2007, 5:09 PM
Three things. 1) A lot of people play the Dark Eldar, 2) the Xeno Hunters aren't an army, and 3) not every individual army has a special codex. In fact, only a few have one. Off the top of my head, you need one to play the Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Black Templars, all of which are Space Marines and you can play the Black Templars without the Space Marine codex.
Ragnarox
01-16-2007, 5:12 PM
Alright seeing as how everybody covered armies for GA, I guess I'll talk about terrain.
If you are planning on playing in store, assuming that said store has the capacity, then they will most likely have a wide range of terrain features to select from. Because of this, painting your own terrain may not be necessary, although I have to admit it is very fun doing so. Also, bear in mind that certain battle codices will require a certain type of terrain (i.e Codex: Cityfight).
Just a little something to add about armies, if you plan on playing in store, it is likely that the store owner will have a collection of several armies already assembled and painted which can be used by beginning players. I would recommend playing as many different armies as you can to get a feel for what you really like before deciding to invest money into the game as everyone else clearly pointed out, is quite expensive.
On paints, there is a possibility that the store you buy the models at will have a store paint set you can use free of charge. If this is true, take advantage of that opportunity if and when you buy your army.
Pisces
01-16-2007, 8:26 PM
As you may not be supprised, games workshop is very keen to get you started on such an expensive game so they've set up a little place for you: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/gettingstarted/intro.htm
On the second page of that there is an army browser which is fairly useful to get a feel for armies without read pages and pages from the codex. The painting and assembling guides on the pages after that are very good.
Look at drybrushing:
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/painting/painting/drybrushing.htm
It is a very quick and easy to make a model look very good, even a sloppy job will tend to look good if you've experimented with it enough.
As you get better at painting you will learn the essentical skill of being able to make models look good with as little effort possible, don't be shy buying paints, you may only use a few on one model but if you use the same few on every model your army tends to look boring and badly painted, you can still make your army look as one without painting them exactly the same. Highlighting specific spots like the bumbs and icons on your models is a bit difficult but definitly pays off in your effort/good ratio.
The army backgrounds have been largely been described above, what makes Warhammer special is the fact that although it referances real life and other fantasy extensively and purposely, its not your typical good versus evil, its evil versus different type of evil, the 'good' armies in warhammer 40k are space marines/IG who kill hundreds of psychics a day to power their navigation beacon for space travel and destroy planets full of innocent people because an inquisitor suspects there "might" be a small proportion of evil within, elder who are out for their own survival and if they kill the other good races while they are at it, even better; and tau who are only concerned with conquering the universe, khorne on the other hand, the eviliest of the evil, most commonly known for their desire to bite baby's heads off are not driven by a lust for the blood of their enemies like the space marines often are, they were the most honorable of all the space marines who will act out of honor without considering if it is right or wrong, just as the samerai of real life would kill peasants for looking at them, the world eaters (Khorne) collect skulls for the throne of their god as a matter of honor and unquestioning service.
Ah, I think the Dark Angels Codex is going to be standalone.
I also heard that the Inquisition is being lumped into one codex, so it might be an idea to wait and see what happens with regards to them.
GenocideAlive
01-17-2007, 3:12 PM
Could someone please explain the breakdown of terrain effect on combat?
Because from what I can tell, terrain basically dictates who's going to win.
In short, placement of troops and terrain = winner.
Dezzick
01-17-2007, 4:16 PM
Basically, terrain effects almost everything in different ways.
There are 3 types of terrain -
Clear Terrain
you can move across this without any sort of penalty, and generally covers most of the battlefield.
Difficult Terrain
This slows down units moving through it, and sometimes is dangerous.
Impassable Terrain
You can't move through this, enough said.
For most terrain features, WYSIWYG. But, for some, there are different types of area terrain, from sizes 1-3.
Size 1 represents low-lying terrain, and size 3 represents very high terrain, such as woods, which can even obscure tanks.
When moving into, or through difficult terrain, you have to roll 2d6, and you can move the number of inches on the highest dice. If it's dangerous terrain, you do the same, but roll a d6 for each member of the unit. if you roll a 1, it takes a wound, with no saves possible. Some units may have more dice, which is stated in their codex. Difficult terrain is always dangerous to vehicles, except skimmers and walkers, which have their own rules, to represent it getting bogged down. If it has moved up to 6", the test is only taken on one die, but if it's more, you get the normal 2d6. if any of the dice roll a one, it counts as immobilised for the rest of the game, or until it's fixed. if the dice are both ones, it counts as destroyed.
When a unit is moved, it may move up or down the same distance it has moved, subject to the difficult terrain rules. For example, if a unit moves 6" into a building, it can be placed 6" above ground level inside that building. Useful for getting a squad of good ranged troops away from nasty combat troops. if you're stupid enough to ignore them, that is.
To shoot into, or out of area terrain, you, or the unit you're shooting at has to be at most 6" from the edge of the terrain, unless they are larger than the terrain. e.g, a tank can be shot at from more than 6" from the edge of a piece of area terrain that's only level one, like some bushes.
I think this is most of the stuff about terrain, but I'm supposed to be getting on with homework, so meh. >.>
Then there is also cover, which is often difficult terrain. That gives a number of major bonuses, such as improved saves (very handy for fragile races like the Guard and Eldar Aspect Warriors) depending on how built up it is. E.g., forests are about a 6+ whereas bunkers are about 3+. The lower the save the better since you have to roll the same or higher to pass. Of course, troops have armour saves themselves. The benefit of cover is that it cannot be penetrated by armour piercing weapons; you always get a cover save in most situations.
Cover also gives some benefits in close combat since the person in cover has advantage of some extra time to ready themselves for the assault. Some Grenades, however, negate this.
Giantfish
01-18-2007, 1:23 AM
Certain models also have special rules that allow them to attack as though they have grenades. For example, C'tan and Necron Wraiths.
Ragnarox
01-18-2007, 2:15 AM
When concerning terrain, figure out where you want certain units to be by a certain turn before the beginning of the game. Of course terrain will factor into this regarding whether they are obscured from enemy fire, whether the terrain they must move through is Difficult terrain/dangerous terrain and of course whether the enemy can shoot through the terrain at you and vise versa. Not only can this optimize your firing position but you can give your most valuable troops the best chance of survival if(when) they are shot at or assaulted.
Bear in mind that most of the information being provided here can be found in the Warhammer 40K rulebook.
GenocideAlive
01-18-2007, 2:28 PM
Whew, got a huge freaking list of stuff from a site not labeled something about buccaneers and inlets. I'm looking at a lot of the material, and there's a lot to absorb. O_o I'm also thinking that this is going to be a little more expensive than I initially calculated.
However, my overwhelmed feelings aside, I'm happily noticing that I have a preference for either the Tau, the Space Marines, or the Chaos Marines / Imperium. While I'm usually a magic / caster fan, I've come to think that I much prefer the ordinance that the Imperium and the Chaos Marines have to offer. I like to blast shit to pieces. This brings me to my next point.
At what stage do you and an opponent come to agreement on terrain type? Obviously, if I've got a shitload of bazooka men aimed at your troops, you're going to want a ton of plains + cover, so you can move fast to engage and do so while not getting shot to hell and back. I'm going to want difficult terrain and open field, so you have to slog through tons of crap at a horrendously slow move while I feuer frei into your ranks like it's my birthday.
Additionally, how do you decide on Deep Strike type manuevers where you've got enemy units dropping into the middle of your ranks? Obviously, if I've got tons of ranged units that bent on machine gunning your troops, I'm not going to want you to be able to Deep Strike. You on the other hand, will most certainly want to be Deep Striking like it's 40,1999.
Most importantly, how do tournaments decide things like this? Because, on the real, I'm not here just to have fun on the weekends, I'm here to be competitive. On the real real, I don't really give a damn about some nerd squad's Saturday afternoons. I just want fodder.
Ragnarox
01-18-2007, 6:54 PM
In the rulebook, there are scenarios in which the terrain type will be decided on a dice roll. Otherwise you and your opponent(s) will decide terrain setup before you start making troop placements. When issues arise regarding terrain placement, just remember the "Most Important Rule" which is detailed in the rulebook as well. Personally I find that if my opponent and I aren't in agreement regarding terrain, a good match of rock-paper-scissors solves the issue quickly enough.
Pisces
01-18-2007, 7:53 PM
Rules are a lot simplier to pick up while playing, in tournaments the rules and terrain will be decided by whoever is hosting the tournament.
B.A.Baracus
01-19-2007, 12:32 AM
Damn I swear I'm gonna start playing table top one day. I suggest this thread is stickied because the wealth of knowledge it contains.
Dezzick
01-19-2007, 11:30 AM
That would be a good idea, or maybe put the posts with all the info in another thread? =/
GenocideAlive
01-19-2007, 12:05 PM
OK, for the lot of you. I'm leaning heavily towards Space Marines, because I like a lot of the stuff they can pull off. I'm too overwhelmed by a lot of the choices open to Chaos Marines and I don't really like pigeonholing myself with solely ranged armies.
If terrain is as important as I think it is, if I get stuck in some open field-ish type terrain against a bunch of mondo Tyranids, I don't want to have a race to empty my guns before they make it to my lines and proceed to slaughter me. There's just nothing there to guarantee that they won't be able to make use of some decent cover and Deep Strike into my lines, totally fucking over my organization until they can get their beefies on me. I like to be able to man up and match force-for-force. Space marines can do that.
Additionally, I REALLY like their Advantage / Drawback setup, because that shit is just plain pimp. Customizability makes for strategic variation, and that's what I signed on for. In some ways, that is what made Vampire better than D&D; you can assign your character attributes, then you can assign quirks (which encourage RP), then you've got something with personality. Same with the Space Marines--plus they've got weapons, which is always fun to add on and take off for various flavoring purposes ("fluff", I believe it's called).
I considered the Imperium, but I'm not entirely sure about their whole organizational setup. Strategically, the Imperium is good for me because I want to be able to rely on the numbers of the game rather than lucky rolls. The more units I have, the more rolls I have to make and the more they will even out to an average. That makes reviewing my tactical decisions or unit selection decisions much easier to examine for error. The drawback to that, however, being that managing such a large force with efficiency will probably overload me. It'd be hard to examine strategic / tactical errors when I can't immediately rule out just plain shitty management on my part.
Please, if you know anything about this game, give me feedback on a few of the various Strengths / Weaknesses about the armies I listed (Tau, Imperium, Chaos, Space Marines). I would like to get a bit of a feel for what players think as well as the hardcore rules. Do I have the right idea in regard to the units / organizational structures?
Let me know of what you think of my decision for Space Marines, too. See if you think it fits. ;)
EvilEggCracker
01-19-2007, 12:19 PM
What do you mean by Imperium? Imperial Guard? Or Inquisition?
100thlurker
01-19-2007, 3:49 PM
I considered the Imperium, but I'm not entirely sure about their whole organizational setup. Strategically, the Imperium is good for me because I want to be able to rely on the numbers of the game rather than lucky rolls. The more units I have, the more rolls I have to make and the more they will even out to an average. That makes reviewing my tactical decisions or unit selection decisions much easier to examine for error. The drawback to that, however, being that managing such a large force with efficiency will probably overload me. It'd be hard to examine strategic / tactical errors when I can't immediately rule out just plain shitty management on my part.
Note the part where he says large forces. Do the Grey Knights have huge armies making Hive fleet Leviathan look like my nose hair? I think not.
It is obviosly the Imperial Guard.
EvilEggCracker
01-19-2007, 4:31 PM
The Sisters of Battle have large enough armies. I was just clarifying it.
100thlurker
01-19-2007, 4:35 PM
Eh, sorry about that.
kongurous
01-19-2007, 8:59 PM
GA, first, bear in mind that the Imperium encompasses four different armies, the Imperial Guard, the Space Marines, and the Inquisition.
Now, onto a brief overview of the 3 non-vague armies you listed.
1. Space Marines: They have some of the toughest units in the game, a good variety of units, an interesting back story, and a lot of versatility. They're good in just about everything. One squad of Tactical Marines (basic infantry) can be equipped with flamers (what this is should be obvious), heavy bolters, plasma rifles, and a host of other weapons. The drawback to all this versatility means they're a master of none but they do tend to favor ranged combat (as do most 40k armies). Also, anything with plasma is gonna tear your infantry to pieces. Pick them if you like being able to do everything, but not doing it particularly quickly. Also keep in mind Space Marines pass all morale rolls due to their "And They Shall Know No Fear" thing, and they are not point friendly.
2. Tau: The Tau are designed for ranged combat. They have piss-poor close range capabilities and most of their units have very powerful ranged attacks. Their vehicles have little armor, but tend to be fast and the Hammerhead, the Tau main battle tank, packs quite a punch. The only real Tau options for close-ranged combat are Kroot, which don't compare to the best melee monsters of the other armies. However, their weapons are mostly plasma-based and they're particularly skilled at slowing the enemy down, so they can tan the hides of most units that are far away and can stop them in their tracks if they try to get close. Go Tau if you like having to make a lot of strategy because they're very hard to play effectively. I don't play Tau very frequently so I can't comment on special rules or their point efficiency.
3. Chaos Space Marines: These guys play almost exactly like the Space Marines except for two main differences. 1) The Chaos Marines (I'm gonna shorten it to CSM, btw) are better at melee, and 2) daemons. My first point is, the CSM are much better at melee than their loyalist counter-parts, as is to be expected after 10,000 years of daemonic possession (a daemon is the Warhammer equivalent of a demon and in the context of this discussion, it is best spelled as daemon if this ever bothered you or you didn't know, sorry to be condescending). Also, they get daemons which means they get more support, very, very powerful close-ranged options, and daemon signs. Signs give them special roles, but you can only have one sign per unit (or is it army? I don't remember). There are 4 signs, one for each Chaos God. Khorne grants greater close-range abilities and I think more hit points, Nurgle grants greater all-around combat abilities, Tzeentch grants greater psyker/casting, and Slaanesh grants... I don't remember. I don't play Chaos actively either, but I do know they are not point friendly, and they are particularly fun to research. IMO, anyway.
Pisces
01-19-2007, 10:27 PM
Most units in a chaos army specialise in one area but are just plain powerful at all others, plague marines are good at getting charged because they can use their bolters to fire upon an enemy then use their bolters as a pistol in close combat to get an additional attack. Noise marines are well adapted to destroy weak mass units although IG are well known for their ranged attacks, when noise marines get within range they will make short work of the weakling humans with their precise weaponry, points for points they may lose against space marines in close combat but there will only be 1 space marine to tell the tale thanks to fearlessness and striking first in C/C each round. Khorne berzerkers kill everything in close combat, their bikers, dreadnaught and greater daemon defeat anything points for points in close combat. Thousand sons (Tzeentch) are the "hardest to use" (euphemism for bad) best at moving in while firing to charge but there is a hell of alot more than that to get them to win, tzeentch units can be made extremely powerful but they will be the only unit in your army and lose points for points against anything.
With the exception of Khorne who won't sit still, most CSM will destroy any squad in any situation, but you will be outnumbered in squads unless you chose to have small ones so the difficult part is to make sure you are always putting your units to their best situation, for example, you should charge your noise marines into a heavy weapons squad even though they may be able to win in a fire fight and you shouldn't charge into a space marines sqaud (if they have pistols or you don't atleast) even though you may win in close combat. Khorne berzerkers may have the general stratergy of KILL, but it is essentical to ensure they reach the enemy to kill without being shot to pieces by lascannons (khorne's mortal enemy) which can be difficult when they don't want to listen to you. Although many of the units have the same apparence as their space marines equivilent I can not stress more, if you try to play like space marines, you will lose, noise marines are NOT good at ranged, plague marines are NOT good all round, tzeentch are NOT good psychers and Khorne are NOT good close combat units, they are all good at exploiting an enemies weakness if you get what I mean.
SPACE MARINES have adaptability on their side, they're not great at close or ranged combat but are good at both, which makes them a forgiving army, when 2 people play with no experiance of how to play, space marines will always win, but good armies will be designed to beat space marines and will do so with superior fire power or close combat ability so you have to ensure your army won't be beaten by superior fire power or close combat ability, the obvious way to do so is through manoveurability, although there are some armies specialise at manoveurability too so it will be better to sit still:P This may sound like space marines are doomed but they're still good enough to exploit an enemies mistakes, either in battle or in army design and so you must do this to the best of your ability. I would recommend missile launchers if you plan to go into tourneys though, they are good at both massed and expensive units which in my opinion makes them more useful than lascannons, still good to have some lascannons as a way to destroy monstrous creatures and tanks quickly.
Just for clarification, "And They Shall No Know Fear" allows automatic rally and stops them getting caught up in sweeping advances, the Marines still take morale checks. A Fearless units, such as the ones Pisces mentioned or Pariahs, for example, are assumed to pass all morale checks.
Ragnarox
01-20-2007, 1:59 PM
Being a Tau and Space Marine player myself, I do have some more commentary about both armies.
The Tau resemble what most people would know today as the modern day military in that they practice a form of C3I warfare using their unparalleled range on the battlefield to fullest effect. A Tau commander is spoiled in the different kinds of equipment he can take to the front, and that's not just counting weapons. Tau equipment such as the Target Lock allow squad members equipped with it to fire individually at a different target than what the rest of the squad fires at that turn. The Multi-Tracker allows for a single model to fire more than one weapon in a single shooting phase. In my opinion, the prime example of the Tau superiority in support equipment are markerlights which can wreak a whole manner of havoc on an enemy force and boosting the capabilities of your own at the same time. However, for all those long range, pinpoint weapon and support systems, the average Tau really can't shoot that well. The average, unaided, Fire Warrior needs to role a 4+ on a D6 to hit a target.
Space Marines are just, as the codex puts it, "Tough as Nails" in a fight, not just physically but psychologically as well with the "And They Shall No Know Fear" special rule. Although the average Space Marine army doesn't necessarily excel at either ranged or close combat as Pisces put it, there are certain chapters that do. I play Blood Angels Space Marines and with the "Black Death" special rule (which really only means that each unit gets the Furious Charge Universal Special Rule for free), they are monsters in close combat. The fact that they are also allowed to take Assault Squads as Troop choices on the Force Organization Chart as well as Fast Attack makes them a formidable close combat force. But of course, every advantage comes with a disadvantage and in this case it's that Blood Angels armies are constantly in danger of getting simply shot to pieces.
As for hardcore rules, check the Rulebook for the rules during the Movement, Shooting and Assault Phases. But I have to say that one of the best “rules” has been outlined in a quote of “Tactica Imperium”: “First, identify your target, then bombard that target until it is destroyed, then choose another target.”
kongurous
01-26-2007, 8:53 AM
Oh, and this may sound stupid, but if it suits you, roleplaying during a battle can sometimes make things easier. For example, let's take the character I made up for my army, Colonel-Commissar Kongilius Neman. Because he's a rather deep character and a well-developed one, I honestly don't know everything about him, if that makes any sense. However, I know him enough to where I can think in his position and the added strategic perspective can help in a pinch. It's helped me win a couple battles, actually, to take a walk in the Commissar's shoes.
But if this all sounds idiotic and nerdy (but you're nerdy regardless because you're getting into 40k) to you, well that's ok too.
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