PvZ: securing the early game

[Protogod]

As a P player, I obviously despise PvZ. PvZ requires an almost unparalleled amount of tech and macro. So my question is- what is a good way to secure yourself early game, without giving up expos to the zerg.

I mean, how do you block for zergling rush, muta harass, and lurkers without ending up a turtle? You need to tech obs and templars asap while making some zealots. How can you secure yourself without allowing the zerg to expo outward or contain you/starve you?

[GroG]

Why not pressure the zerg? Use your zealots to cause damage, man.

If you are playing one of those guys who try to run up your ramp, either leave 2 behind blocking and depend on your next guys out to block, or just run home and probe micro. Shouldn't a big deal.

Another option is to get 2 DT, and have them run around the map (ie-- not their base). That stops expoing ok. Use shift-attack so you don't have to pay attention to them all the time.

Finally, learning how to attack multiple places with speedzeals with +1 is good. Like attack one expo, but then attack another with 6 zeals (FF the hatch and run away if he sends reinforcements). If one of the forces get engaged, run them away somewhere (not your home base), wait for a while, then go back and try again.

Also, a good midgame trick is to drop 4 DT on their main. You can take out tech buildings VERY quickly with this (that lair is a nice big target).

If you spend the whole game trying to defend your base, you've already lost.

[bloodbane]

do a reaver or dt or corsair or ht traps
latter on to prevent xpos and show oppentent that his resources are more precious and teching up will stop and many expensive or spell zerg dont look so good
corsairs and reavers work good with distrubtion web stop the zerg The zerg mass slow and clump where reavers or ht slaughter
useing distruption webs a lot can really help

[Cpt.Chronic]

Another option is to get 2 DT, and have them run around the map (ie-- not their base). That stops expoing ok. Use shift-attack so you don't have to pay attention to them all the time.
On most maps, you can patrol between 2-3 expos per DT, which IMO is more effective and less time consuming than shift-clicking them all over.

[Protogod]

do a reaver or dt or corsair or ht traps
latter on to prevent xpos and show oppentent that his resources are more precious and teching up will stop and many expensive or spell zerg dont look so good
corsairs and reavers work good with distrubtion web stop the zerg The zerg mass slow and clump where reavers or ht slaughter
useing distruption webs a lot can really help


do you know what "early game" means? didnt think so

I have no intention on taking YOUR advice, seeing as how you havent won a game since 1997

[WickedImposter]

think grog nailed it. try playing offensence instead of defense.

[McNewgin]

Yah Proto, I would have to go with playing offense as well. Grog is right. I would just harrass the hell outta him with zealots early game.

[adidas343]

i think securing the 3rd and 4rd expo is the hardest for protoss to do. depending on whether start with double or 1 gate. if you double, zerg pretty much has 3-4 bases by the time you come out. if you 1 gate or 2 gate going to fast tech, zerg has at 2-3 bases. im not a double player, so what i do is go 2 gate zealot and open with DT with corsair. Then you go out and expo your natural and cannon up 2-3 cannons in natural and then make an archon. Then you go zealots and try to prevent zerg form expanding his 3rd/4th. While you go out with your forces to prevent zerg form getting 3rd/4th expo you expo as you go out and you MUST do enough damage with your force at this time. By the time you fought and harrased with your forces your 3rd expo should be done. You gotta watch out when you expo becuase a group of zerglings might appear out of nowhere and attack your nexus so keep some forces there to protect it. what you wanna do is try to even up bases with the zerg or have more expos. if thats the case, no way can zerg keep up with protoss.

[Yaqoob]

Me vs Ixions. PvZ. Maybe not a good example of good play but I was a bit tired since it was very late and imo, I am not a really good player myself.

Its a pretty shitty game imo but whatever...

[Yaqoob]

I played 4 games on Abyss. Went 1-3 today. I won the PvP and lost all 3 PvZ's. PvZ really is hard cause you don't know their tech [and i even kept scouting probe alive]. Anyways, he went Muta into Mass hydra -_-

[Ahzz]

if you wanna know his tech, make corsair/scout tech and harass his ovies while checking his tech. Also tech speed zealots and make a forge during this, and if you did it right you'll move out with around 8 speed zealots and 1 dragoon and you've even got probably 1-2 ovies before that, and can expo, and make cannons for main and expo before lurks/mutas come, and 1-2 high templars with storm tech soon enough. if he went mass hydra you gotta micro a bit with zealots & cannons

[Cpt.Chronic]

if he went mass hydra you gotta micro a bit with zealots & cannons
Which is really hard if you don't have speedy legs and +1 attack.

[B.A.Baracus]

I miss our pvz's together proto :(
Anyway, the key of any MU vs z is control. P cannot dictate the flow of a pvz, but they can still keep a firm hand. Don't let zerg relax or take easy expos. If you go 5 minutes without pressuring zerg you can be sure they have taken an expo or two and are ready to launch a massive attack. I think the ratio is something like stay at least one expo behind them, or match them if possible. Also, if your not inflicting twice the casualties on them as they are on you; your losing.
I also learned back when I was playing that the zerg's counter to fast tech(toss especially) is to just take another expo. Try fake teching on someone then when they try to take 3rd hit their 3rd with zeals. Most of what I said isnt early game, but grog covered that good.

On a side note; I could be playing on weekends, but when I try to log onto b net it says it cant find my application version and says to re-install, ever since that patch on bw launcher :/

[Siege_Commander]

hey babs, that happens to me now to, but i can still go on. i just dont use bwlauncher

[Ahzz]

speedy legs
well my strategy has speedy legs far before that point. Besides, ,the cannons shoot some, and if the hydras become brave and attack, zealots do the extra damage. Hydras cant go through that, or if they can, storm will be done at that point already.

[Siege_Commander]

why is babs banned?

[Ktan]

I've no idea, but please try not to de-rail threads like that. If you want to know, PM him, his box will still be open.

[Siege_Commander]

okay, sorry Ktan. And as P, if i want to siar harass, at what supply do i go stargates? btw, do i tech to templars before sairs? or just gates and stargates, then tech?

[GroG]

3 sair builds I know of, although you can always make your own. FE into 2 stargate sair (most common) map control, 1 gate into quick sair (usually only 1 sair, then straight to dt/expand), 2 gate hard zeal pressure into late sair (usually only 1 sair, although if they muta then you make more) very good vs ling.

Generally, you'll make sair before any other tech (including storm), although midgame you can just pump 5-6 sairs and fly around and pop ovies. Sairs require solid multitasking, as they are rarely in the same place as your army is. Think of it this way, your flying around with your sair and you see:

Hydra den no lair, usually 2 (and an evo) or 3 hats: get storm asap
Hydra den with lair, usually lair +1 hat: get obs asap
Spire: an archon with cannon if you need it

Then you have ling builds, 9 pool speedling into lurkerling push, you really want obs and zeal speed on this one, followed by an archon.

Or you can play with goons as opposed to zeals. Or you can use reavers. or.... there's so much you can do in this matchup it's not even funny. Just remember to try and not let the zerg control you, the tosses job is to control the middle and not let zerg expand, reach critical mass and win.

[Superiorwolf]

I'm not a protoss player but as a zerg player the most annoying thing to me is Corsairs, even when I have spores or defense it really gives the protoss player a great scout and harrasser.

[dfenton1972]

you guys are super serious where can i get a copy of the game ive only played it on the N64 wouldnt know any "hot" keys now dont any of you blokes give me a hard time about that

[lammas]

http://www.starcraft.theabyss.eu/?files

there you go. Dunno if its works tho never needed it myself.

[Siege_Commander]

if not, its about 10 bucks :p