ZvP: How to counter sair/reaver?

[Iguana]

I just played against this guy at Luna and he totally owned me with hardcore sairs/shuttle/reaver.

I knew I was suppose to contain and expand but it was hard with all his sair harrasment. I just don't know how to counter this.

And he also used disruption web, damn.

I attached the replay. You need the Penguin plug-in to watch it.

[GroG]

Yeah, that guy was pretty good.

You could have either stopped powering for a bit and mass up on lings after his FE to try and break his expo, or you could have double expanded instead of single expanded after it (you only single). Remember, your goal is to always have a few more expos than the toss, while still stopping his.

Later in the game, I honestly am not 100% sure on what to do vs. that. I've seen mass hydra, but I think that'd be hard to pull off unless you were pro or something. I'd probably just do sunken/spore d and patrol around with mass devs (like = to or > pop in devs than his corsairs), then go on to mass up some muta to complement (and I'd get 3/3).

Man, been a while since I've seen good d-webbing and reaver use like that.. haha.

[bloodbane]

dam i just told proto to do that
scrouge will work in begining because corsair weak attack a(name escapes me) gooyey green thing with queens will help and broodling the dragoons then attack with mutas
also u can put your lurkers on cliffs near in front of choke to help try to parasite any observers this this will stop alot a of detection use plague alot to help against corsairs
have devs that helps but mutas or scourage near will help
scourage are you best bet if u can micro good enough
some devs will help as barriers

[Ahzz]

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| 50% crap, 25% nonsense 25 % right

[splatt0r]

Usually this is what I do:

1) If he isn't getting the photons at time and you see 2-3 photons + 1-2 zeals, mass speed lings and try to break the expo.
2) 2 Lurkers so you can destroy the gateways in front of the expo. Get as many hydras as u can and get hydra range 1st. Try to get the photons before he has any reaver.
3) Get 1-2 spores per expo and keep making hydras.
4) You must have a good scout and not let him exp. Place a ling in every mineral line f.e.
5) Don't go lurker drop :/ you'll get raped most of the times.
6) Once you have lings with attack boost, try to drop some in his expos, and attack the nexus only, since most of the time their photons are at the ramp only (not later on the game)
7) Get some muta + devourer

[Iguana]

Usually this is what I do:

1) If he isn't getting the photons at time and you see 2-3 photons + 1-2 zeals, mass speed lings and try to break the expo.
2) 2 Lurkers so you can destroy the gateways in front of the expo. Get as many hydras as u can and get hydra range 1st. Try to get the photons before he has any reaver.
3) Get 1-2 spores per expo and keep making hydras.
4) You must have a good scout and not let him exp. Place a ling in every mineral line f.e.
5) Don't go lurker drop :/ you'll get raped most of the times.
6) Once you have lings with attack boost, try to drop some in his expos, and attack the nexus only, since most of the time their photons are at the ramp only (not later on the game)
7) Get some muta + devourer

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

[CoLdFeAr]

Nice ass I must add.

Sorry.

[adidas343]

You didn't play too well that game in my opinion. Since you saw the protoss doing FE you should have expanded 2 more times after you got your natural. A very strong strategy against FE Protoss is going 3 hatchery mass Hydra without going Lair. I got destroyed by this many times I might say...

Corsair/Reaver, probably one of the hardest things to counter if you're a zerg player. Zerg having the worst anti-air, You should use a lot of Hydras and try to get the shuttles and corsairs with scourges. Once you get devour though, corsair/ reaver loses lots of its effectiveness depending on the unit count.

[Ahzz]

Corsair/Reaver, probably one of the hardest things to counter if you're a zerg player. Zerg having the worst anti-air, You should use a lot of Hydras and try to get the shuttles and corsairs with scourges. Once you get devour though, corsair/ reaver loses lots of its effectiveness depending on the unit count.
pffft... and ofcourse we're not thinking that only about 1% in b.net can perform corsair/reaver PROPERLY.
Besides, just doing mass hydra with +1 missile attack and flank reavers, while teching to spire stuff and adding some scourges too and suicide them to shuttles.

[IrishDutchman]

Besides, just doing mass hydra with +1 missile attack and flank reavers, while teching to spire stuff and adding some scourges too and suicide them to shuttles.

Aye. A lot of people underestimate hydralisks when fighting reavers. If you spread them out/flank, so a scarab will only kill 1 or 2 hydra's, you should have little problem taking care of lone reavers.
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cool, 1,666 posts!

[GroG]

problems with that:
1) reavers choose the fighting place, not you, so you usually don't have time to set up nice easy flanks. they are flying around in speed shuttles, killings expos
2) reavers are never alone

[Ahzz]

yes. but it's the zergs duty to limit the places he can take the reavers. the thing what zerg should do, is try to prevent the possiblity of escaping, and then take them off when they still have done only minor damage

[Siege_Commander]

grog, i belive reavers are alone when they come in drops, and they cant really go in a min line to unleash their bombs/scarabs if its full of hydras;)

[blupp74]

grog, i belive reavers are alone when they come in drops, and they cant really go in a min line to unleash their bombs/scarabs if its full of hydras;)

That's assuming you only send one shuttle. Even then, it's more common to have 1 Reaver and 2 Zealots to soak up damage.

And if Z has mass hydras there, it means Z does NOT have mass hydras someplace else. And that someplace else is where the drop will be instead.

[Siege_Commander]

well if z has mass hydras in min lines, which is where the drop is most effective,....

[blupp74]

well if z has mass hydras in min lines, which is where the drop is most effective,....

Well, Z would have more than 1 min line. And he can't keep mass hydras at al of them. Won't be much left to attack with then.

[Siege_Commander]

what would stop a reaver drop more, hydras, or lurks?

[Ahzz]

mutas

[blupp74]

what would stop a reaver drop more, hydras, or lurks?

Well, if he brought an obs, then lurks wouldn't last very long, unless you have many of them there...which you don't want, because you want to attack with them. So mutas, yeah.

Another thing would be to pressure him so much he either a) doesn't have the time to perform a drop, or b) have to use those units to defens, or c) both.

[Siege_Commander]

Im sure if you drop you wouldnt bring an obs along....

[blupp74]

Im sure if you drop you wouldnt bring an obs along....

Errr...au contraire. When dropping Z I would ALWAYS bring an obs along. I'd want to scout the drop site before moving in, since (if it's an early drop) my shuttle has no speed upgrade, and if there are hydras or something waiting, I don't want to waste that money, getting nothing for it.

(Though I guess it can't be TOO early, since I'd need obs tech too...but you get the general idea).

So far I haven't really been dropping PvZ though. It's more of an head-on thing for me.

[Ahzz]

sometimes dropping fast is more necessary than other stuff....
Lurkers are like a deathwish, do them vs reaver and die. Hydras might work for sometime, mutas and scourge are best.

[blupp74]

sometimes dropping fast is more necessary than other stuff....
Lurkers are like a deathwish, do them vs reaver and die. Hydras might work for sometime, mutas and scourge are best.

True, dropping fast can be a great benifit, and Z shouldn't be having too much units at his mineral line. But without scouting first it is a bit of a risk (well..drops in general are...). But I still prefer knowing what I'm getting myself into.

And how is lurkers against a Reaver drop without an obs a deathwish?

I usually drop more as T though. Though mass speed-shuttles rolling in and dropping can also be a quite impressive vision.
(Not that that applies to an early-game Reaver drop).

[Ahzz]

bah... text got canceled, anyway, lurkers have shorter range than reaver, they dont have antiair, and they have to burrow/unburrow to attack. It takes alot of time. Toss will send obs after he sees lurkers not too much later than reaver drop, while shooting drones and tech from faraway.

[blupp74]

bah... text got canceled, anyway, lurkers have shorter range than reaver, they dont have antiair, and they have to burrow/unburrow to attack. It takes alot of time. Toss will send obs after he sees lurkers not too much later than reaver drop, while shooting drones and tech from faraway.

Well, on most maps you can pretty much assume where the drop will come (like on LT at 12 it usually comes from top left), so if I was to place a lurker there, it would be where it could reach that point.

Of course, a quick liftoff and re-placement of the reaver could solve that. Then again, Z usually has atleast 1 sunken close to the mineral lines...

Oh well...

[Ahzz]

1 lurker does how much to something that has 200 hp, and might be two reavrers. All your drones will be gone, then it'll just continue

[blupp74]

1 lurker does how much to something that has 200 hp, and might be two reavrers. All your drones will be gone, then it'll just continue

Admittedly, it doesn't do much, but a player will rarely just keep his drones there to be slaughtered. And I doubt the P player will leave his reaver there to maule the hatchery, while the lurker continuosly pounds the reaver.
And maybe it's more than one lurker?

You make it sound like Z is dead by default, if a reaver drop comes, and he doesn't have mutas.

[Siege_Commander]

Well bluppy, 200 dmg splash is a meanie to drones :P

[Ahzz]

... 100 damage. Zerg isn't dead by default, but unless it can get hydras fast he will be. Reavers will just find a different angle to attack from, and observer will come very soon afterwards. While all this is going on, zergs army and eco will decrease, while toss army increases

[Siege_Commander]

O yeah my bad. But if its 2 reavers, more deadly as more drones will be hit.