2v2 help

[ShIhNe]

Ok. so i play terran, and i usually have a hard decision whether to go tri rax or wall and dual factories. I always scout in beginning and find out my opponents race, and usually decide to go dual fac.

but the problem im having is dealing with double teams, rescuing team mates, and just dealing with both races at the same time ( assuming that they are helping each other)

wats the best BO to use?

[MidnightGladius]

You can't systematize 2v2. The possibilities are increased exponentially, and there really is no way to list out even probable courses of action.

[ShIhNe]

ok lemme change my question a little bit

wahts the best BO to deal with this

and wahts the cheapest way to deal with a 2v2 situations w/ different races as ur oppponent

[blupp74]

ok lemme change my question a little bit

wahts the best BO to deal with this

and wahts the cheapest way to deal with a 2v2 situations w/ different races as ur oppponent

In 2v2 it usually comes down to both allies on one side attacking one of the players on the opposite team.

So you either make sure you're part of the attacking team, and cripple your opponent so bad it's gg right there, OR if being attacked, you make sure you hold them off long enough for your ally to attack one of them, and cripple them so bad it's gg right there. (Same goes if your partner is attacked).

If one of you gets attacked and the other player needs to send help, you've most likely lost, unless your opponents suck. First of all, it will take a long time for help to arrive, so they won't really help much. Second of all, chances are your ally will be the one being attacked as soon as your enemies sees he sent forces to you.

SO...
When playing 2v2 as T, if I plan to attack early myself, I always build 2 raxes. If we're facing 2 zerg (who chose z, not random) I usually sacrifice economy for 2 early raxes (stop building SCV's when you hit 8, save up to 300 minerals, and build 2 raxes at once. Build 1 more SCV, then save up for depot. Your depot should be done around when the 2 raxes are done).

If I'm going for defence/tech, I use normal build order (as if I was playing 1v1). This requires good scouting though, because you don't want to be caught with your pants down.

2v2 is mostly about playing with someone you've played with before though.
I don't know how many games I've lost because I played with players I didn't know. Mostly they turn out being not so good, but there are times where they are good but we just don't play well together.

[Superiorwolf]

In a 2v2 you get gas a little later than in 1v1 because it is very common for two people to double team rush one person. So, for 2v2, make sure you build an army to defend or attack quickly, and then you can tech some more to things that need gas, marines and medics / tanks, etc.

[ShIhNe]

o0o

ive been using 1v1 build orders in 2v2 ( so thats why my allies keep dying)

Usually i keep rushing MnM at them, but static Defense kills me
Then i get tanks, and then someone is always smart enough to drop my expo..

so you guys are saying i need to atk early to avoid the goon/ling/MnM bum rush at me

also btw, is it usually a better idea to make tanks or vults w/ research first disregarding the situation

[Siege_Commander]

always depends on the situation. If facing z, M&M with sci vessels, mebbe tanks for lurks.
toss- vults, tanks, mines, sometimes gols for arb or carrier
v t, tanks, gols. decided on macro and ups....

[GroG]

2v2 is more about working in concert with your ally than correct unit counters/builds. Your opponents might be T/P, yet you might 2 rax rine and your ally might 2 gate zeal (neither of which are very good vs those respective opponents), which are pretty standard 2v2 builds. It's all about working with your ally.

If you are playing pubby 2v2's with someone you don't know, don't worry about losing. You honestly just can't play the same as if you were playing with someone on ventrilo or someone you've honed your 2v2 strat with.

If you are playing pubby, and your ally looks good, then do like a 2 rax rine builds and play standard 2v2 and try to rush someone. If they look bad, expand with tanks and go straight for BC and secure an island as well.

[gregleo2]

You've got to help your ally out. Otherwise, you will get OWNED.

[Siege_Commander]

ya. for instance, i 2v2ed with ixions. While he attacked with goons, i backed him up with mines and tanks. I mined the other players choke, so he cudnt help

[ShIhNe]

ok

so when playing 2v2 and the other team's two players are on totally different skill levels, is it a better idea to take out da noob first or the pro-er one first?

also, when making a terran push, do you take scvs out of mineral and use them or make from scratch.. i never remember to use scv when usin tank/vult push

and one last question...

how do you decide ur BO..
er
in other words, how do you rapidly change your BO
say for instance, you were planning to 2fac vult rush but you see that your opponent is zerg and has a moderate D, but cant be rushed
do you keep going vult or tech backwards and go dual rax MnM w/ tanks?

[Siege_Commander]

answer: always scout .if ya dont no what race he or she is, then scout early

[ShIhNe]

by early you mean be4 or after my rax

i build supply first

if any of you are extreamly bored, and would like to watch a boring replay of me getting owned, here is one


im purple

[Superiorwolf]

No time to watch your rep at the moment but scouting can happen whenever, usually around the time your barracks begins construction is what I have heard. (According to a video "how to" by Nada)

[ShIhNe]

actually the rep was jsut there for very bored people. it jsut showed me gettin owned...

is it a better idea to scout w/ units or comsat early game
o ya whens a good time to expo, like when each mineral patch at ur main is at 1000 or something?

[Superiorwolf]

Scout with an SCV and then when/if you get a comsat constantly use it to see what the enemy is doing and also check for expos.

A major part of the game is containing the enemy into not expanding unless ur playing BGH or a money map.


In a 2v2 and 1v1 both these apply about the same.

[ShIhNe]

aw man...

when ur on a map like LT where its rather big and takes ur scv like, 4 minutes to scout the entire map if ur not lucky in finding the other guy's base.

i was going metal, and he was zerg

i rapidly changed plans to tri rax, but that severly delayed my expo

i tried containing him, but he broke out w/ dual hacheries....

then he beat me in the "building" contest

good game, but can ya guyz watch this rep and tell me waht my major mistake was?
its rather long, but its an exciting noob game

[WickedImposter]

dont go metal against zerg. all you need is some tanks to kill lurkers, and mmf can handle the rest.

[blupp74]

aw man...

when ur on a map like LT where its rather big and takes ur scv like, 4 minutes to scout the entire map if ur not lucky in finding the other guy's base.

i was going metal, and he was zerg

i rapidly changed plans to tri rax, but that severly delayed my expo

i tried containing him, but he broke out w/ dual hacheries....

then he beat me in the "building" contest

good game, but can ya guyz watch this rep and tell me waht my major mistake was?
its rather long, but its an exciting noob game

Your major mistake was probably freaking out when you saw he was zerg, and building tri rax just because of that. 1 rax would have been enough for the beginning, maybe 2. And doing that contain was pretty pointless, since Z usually goes Lurkers (which would rape the containment, like he did) or mutas, which aren't contained by a containment.

The tri rax should have come when you saw he was going mutas. For lurkers, you really need the tanks faster. You didn't scout enough to see the lurks until he broke your containment though.

All in all, a nice even game. I like the fact that you would have won if he hadn't found your CC :)

[ShIhNe]

thx blupp

i thought my major mistake was losing my army repeatedly, while zerg still hada nice lurkling force. then he secretly massed mutas and sorta...killed me
should've built a spare missle turret somewhere extreamly random in the map so i could finish off his last expo...

and vs zerg, how fast should i expo, and when is an ideal time to atk; like when i have 1 tank w/ seige?
o is it a better idea if main was being atked, to atk his main or rush back to defend our main?

so going dual rax, fac, and expo is a safer bet than building tri rax?

[blupp74]

thx blupp

i thought my major mistake was losing my army repeatedly, while zerg still hada nice lurkling force. then he secretly massed mutas and sorta...killed me
should've built a spare missle turret somewhere extreamly random in the map so i could finish off his last expo...

and vs zerg, how fast should i expo, and when is an ideal time to atk; like when i have 1 tank w/ seige?
o is it a better idea if main was being atked, to atk his main or rush back to defend our main?

so going dual rax, fac, and expo is a safer bet than building tri rax?

Dual rax feels safer, but after trying it a few times, i find you can usually get away with just 1 rax, pumping rines all the time, then making factory as soon as you can. You'll want the factory to get to starport even if he goes mutas, so no harm done there.
But if you see him going mutas, you don't need more than 1 factory, and can go on building raxes. (Of course, he might switch later on).

I don't know if there's a particular expo-rule for Zerg...the common rules are to expo when you've just won a fight or when...err....mindblock!
Anyways, if your multitasking can keep up with it, I'd suggest expanding WHILE attacking. Try to make the attack as successful as possible (duh) despite whatever work you have to put in to expand (usually isn't that much - just start a cc building, then move it when it's done, then move workers).

Just sitting there while expanding will probably get your expo killed. Keep him busy meanwhile. Even if he manages to kill your force, you have hopefully reduced his force so much he won't think it's worthwhile to attack until he builds it up again...at which time you've built your army up too, and also have your expo up and running.

Against Z, you've won a lot if you can keep track of the other expos and kill any attempt from his side to expand. Preferably by the time his hatchery is completed (so he loses the 300 minerals). But you'll need a good force to attack, so you can kill it off before reinforcements arrive (unless you attack at 2 places at the same time, and keep him too busy to bother with the expo).

[ShIhNe]

ya thx again blupp

o ya btw, can i bunker rush or proxy rush the expo faster than the zerg can get a few lings out?

and lately ive been having trouble with sunken blocks. the zerg player makes a crap load of sunkens ( ive seen a person go overboard w/ 12 )

how do you kill this be4 the darned mutas come out...
or do i camp the rest of the expo spots?

[WickedImposter]

depends on mu. with terran, you can just use tank/mm to take zerg out. with toss, it is slightly harder, especially if they have high ground. zvz, you can just counter muta him

[blupp74]

ya thx again blupp

o ya btw, can i bunker rush or proxy rush the expo faster than the zerg can get a few lings out?

and lately ive been having trouble with sunken blocks. the zerg player makes a crap load of sunkens ( ive seen a person go overboard w/ 12 )

how do you kill this be4 the darned mutas come out...
or do i camp the rest of the expo spots?

Sunken blocks. Well, if he spends that much resources (50+75x12=1500 minerals) then he's definetly way behind on everything else. If you know he's going mutas, hold off your expansion for a while, contain him with tanks and mm, and keep a good force of mm back at your base. Then slowly mow your way through his sunkens, and kill him.

You can't really "camp" all the expos. Just have a few marines patrolling between them.