156 billion lightyears

[Kahuzal]

http://space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html

New reasearch leads scientists to believe that the universe is 156 billion lightyears wide.

With all the new recent discoveries in theroetical physics... I can easily see some changes being made, some religions being alienated, and cool stuff possably popping up technology-wise in a few years.

[Nuts]

What rubbish.

If the universe is finite, then what preytell lies beyond the radius of 156 billion light years, hrm? How do they calculate the beginning of time when all that we have to gauge such an event is evidence found on our terrestrial planet? This is all relative and completely theory. It's fun to theorize and strive for knowledge, but these people are trying to apply earthly concepts to a completely foreign concept.

Bah

[Kahuzal]

Actually, you're right. There are so many new things popping up at this moment, that it's hard to tell what to go with. For example, calculating it based on time, is wrong, since the string theory is now providing evidance that time began before the big bang.

I am however, looking forward to many intresting books in about 2-3 years.

[Ender]

Well of COURSE time began before the Big Bang. For something to EXIST, it has to be within time, and the Big Bang came from SOMETHING! (It was like the separation or joining or colliding of atoms or something like that.)

[Whiteknight]

Actually, I recently saw that the universe has been dated to 16 billion years old, instead of 12 or whatever it said. I'll try to find the source later.

[WeekendLazyness]

What rubbish.

If the universe is finite, then what preytell lies beyond the radius of 156 billion light years, hrm? How do they calculate the beginning of time when all that we have to gauge such an event is evidence found on our terrestrial planet? This is all relative and completely theory. It's fun to theorize and strive for knowledge, but these people are trying to apply earthly concepts to a completely foreign concept.

Bah
"Our results don't rule out a hall-of-mirrors effect, but they make the possibility far less likely," Cornish told SPACE.com, adding that the findings have shown "no sign that the universe is finite, but that doesn't prove that it is infinite."
They never said it was finite, as a matter in fact, that would go against what their other findings suggest. The way they calculate the beginning of time is by looking back at something called the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) and measuring how far away it is. As they put it:
The scientists studied the cosmic microwave background (CMB), radiation unleashed about 380,000 years after the Big Bang, when the universe had first expanded enough to cool and allow atoms to form. Temperature differences in the CMB left an imprint on the sky that was used last year to reveal the age of the universe and confirm other important cosmological measurements.

The CMB is like a baby picture of the cosmos, before any stars were born.
You fail to realize that astronomers, astrophysicists, and nuclear physicists have been studying these topics for years. They are not "trying to apply earthly concepts to a completely foreign concept," but realize that they must come up with new theories about how the Universe works. Plus, theories aren't just made up for fun, they are useful tools. One famous one, the Pythagorean Theorem, still must be proved every time you use it. Science is a quest for knowledge, and I personally find scientific concepts much more believable than those of religion.

[Nuts]

All the equations and all of the collaberative research in the world cannot begin to fathom the possibilites that exist beyond our galaxy, much less our universe. One need not understand these scientific theories to summarize that all such research is bound by the human perception of things to be and may ultimately be utterly and completely null.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking science, but just as religion is concerned, our knowledge is limited by our current existence. Stephen Hawking is one of the greatest minds I have ever had the pleasure of knowing, even though it would be through the pages of his text, but regardless, even he must admit that his principles are limited by his comprehsion.

A quest for knowledge is great, but to estimate the size of the universe is somewhat egotistic, just as if someone were to claim to know what God looked like, if you believe in such things. Essentially, we've come to a point where all scientific data leads us to a certain conclusion. Yet the person before them had the exact same belief, with different data and a different conclusion, so what makes us believe that this is the moment in time upon which we are correct, as opposed to each time prior?

Accept the unknown.

[Whiteknight]

I thought you were an atheist, nut. Oh well.

Nuts, we must believe that we are correct in order to continue to expand our knowledge. As we expand our knowledge, we correct ourselves and continue the cycle.

[EdvardMunch]

What rubbish.

If the universe is finite, then what preytell lies beyond the radius of 156 billion light years, hrm?

There are some fun paradoxes involving infinity, like the fact that the universe would measure at just as many feet as it does miles (since the radius of the universe is an infinite amount of feet and an infinite amount of miles).

[Nuts]

I thought you were an atheist, nut. Oh well.

What leads you to believe otherwise?

I speak to all people on a level playing field so as not to offend any. I don't push my beliefs upon any, and as such, I will consider all beliefs when posting.

Nuts, we must believe that we are correct in order to continue to expand our knowledge. As we expand our knowledge, we correct ourselves and continue the cycle.

I imagine you are correct, but it's rather maddening to a degree when you realize that until we are released from the shackles of this galaxy, we cannot even begin to comprehend what lies beyond.

[Whiteknight]

I imagine you are correct, but it's rather maddening to a degree when you realize that until we are released from the shackles of this galaxy, we cannot even begin to comprehend what lies beyond.
Yeah, it is pretty maddening, but we will not be have insterstellar travel for a long time, and even when/if we make it close to the speed of light (impossible for the speed of light), it would take forever just to make it to another galaxy, the amount of time it would take is longer than just 1 generation. Also, time supposedly slows down as you get closer to the speed of light, and then stops as you reach the speed of light, and reverses as you pass the speed of light. Now I'm just rambling and inserting things that relate to nothing, so I'll stop.

[WeekendLazyness]

I speak to all people on a level playing field so as not to offend any. I don't push my beliefs upon any, and as such, I will consider all beliefs when posting.
I seriously doubt that's possible if you want to make a intelligent post.

[Battlecruiser]

All the equations and all of the collaberative research in the world cannot begin to fathom the possibilites that exist beyond our galaxy, much less our universe. One need not understand these scientific theories to summarize that all such research is bound by the human perception of things to be and may ultimately be utterly and completely null.
Actually we can measure how much an object moves from the observer. This is done by the applying the doppler effect and using a spectrometer. If it is a red shift it is moving further away from us. If there is a blue shift, it is moving closer to us. This effect works for all cases. As long as we get light, we can use this. Even I know how to use a spectrometer. They are very cheap, around 4 dollars, so imagine what you can do if you have much more money.

[Nuts]

Yet all this is still relative to your position on Earth. Perhaps if you had a millenia with which to study these pehnoms, then maybe we could make some rational sense from it all, but as it stands, you only have about 60-70 years left.... hurry up. ;)

[Battlecruiser]

Yet all this is still relative to your position on Earth. Perhaps if you had a millenia with which to study these pehnoms, then maybe we could make some rational sense from it all, but as it stands, you only have about 60-70 years left.... hurry up. ;)
Haha, we don't have to measure how fast a galaxy 50 million light years away is moving. We can use our own, because the rate of spreading has a pattern called Hubble's constant.


Wait can you give me a few minutes to confirm this information because I am recalling information I learnt 9 months ago. Anyway thanks for the practice because this stuff might appear on the regents so in a way I am rewieving for my final test while discussing this topic.

[Nuts]

Haha, we don't have to measure how fast a galaxy 50 million light years away is moving. We can use our own, because the rate of spreading is even.

Yet according to another theory, the universe is constantly expanding and contracting. According to the theory, we simply exist during the expanding portion of the event, and eventually the universe will begin to contract and repeat the process over yet again. This would void your theory of constant and consistent expansion.

[Kahuzal]

Yes, but that theory may be gone soon, withe the new development made by the string theory, check out the scientific american article "The myth of time" or somthing close to that anyway.

[Battlecruiser]

Yet according to another theory, the universe is constantly expanding and contracting. According to the theory, we simply exist during the expanding portion of the event, and eventually the universe will begin to contract and repeat the process over yet again. This would void your theory of constant and consistent expansion.
Can you give me a link to that theory and is it based on facts?

Also I have to take back a statement. I said the rate of spreading is even, but that is not true though it does follow a pattern.

The US astronomer Edwin Hubble noticed in 1929 that the further a galaxy is from Earth, the faster it appears to be moving away. This idea of an expanding universe underpins the Big Bang theory, which says that the Universe began with an intense burst of energy and has been expanding ever since.

Measuring the rate of the Universe's expansion requires calculating the acceleration of objects both near and far from us, and measuring the difference. Before the HST, the best estimates of the Hubble constant put the figure at either 50 or 100 kilometres per second per megaparsec. This number describes Hubble's discovery - an object's speed increases with increasing distance from the observer.

[Nuts]

Simple explanation

http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/phys/astronomy/general/p00094d.html

Complex explanation that I won't pretend to understand.

http://zyx.org/CUH.html

[Battlecruiser]

Simple explanation

http://www.sciencenet.org.uk/database/phys/astronomy/general/p00094d.html

Complex explanation that I won't pretend to understand.

http://zyx.org/CUH.html
Ahh yes, I already heard of that theory. It was just that the way you worded it, it didn't remind me of anything I knew. Yes it is possible but that is still in debate.

Also don't you hate sites like the second one? They put all these big words there just to confuse you and act smart.

Here is a sentence from it
In this present study called the Contracting Universe Hypothesis, it is the variation of space-gauge which is thought to alter the intra-spatial distances of matter, such as the crystal structure distances between atoms, and the sundry associated atomic orbital radii, but not the inter spatial relationships of matter, such as the distance between galaxies, stars, planets and moons.

[singo]

The Question "What lies outside those however many light years?" is absurd.

By definition the universe is everything. there is nothing outside, there is no where for it be.

and time did not exist before the big bang....time does not exist anyway, it is an illusion created by living things to be a framework into which things happen one after the other

in the words of douglas adams "Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so"

[Nuts]

The Question "What lies outside those however many light years?" is absurd.

By definition the universe is everything. there is nothing outside, there is no where for it be.

Pardon me, but the question is indeed valid if scientists are intent on placing finite measurements on the size of said universe.

and time did not exist before the big bang

Stating such information as being factual is indeed absurd.

....time does not exist anyway, it is an illusion created by living things to be a framework into which things happen one after the other

This isn't the matrix, stop with the illusion crap. Time is a name, just like any other. It describes a process, just like any other. To say that time doesn't exist is akin to claming the color green doesn't exist since color is only an ocular perception. Time is a human measurement, and as such, it does exist.

[Battlecruiser]

This isn't the matrix, stop with the illusion crap. Time is a name, just like any other. It describes a process, just like any other. To say that time doesn't exist is akin to claming the color green doesn't exist since color is only an ocular perception. Time is a human measurement, and as such, it does exist.
I agree. Nice example too.
and time did not exist before the big bang....
You don't have any proof for that. You are just making a guess.

[Grom_Icecream]

I think there could be a wording problem here.

By definition i thought the universie is infinite, but it contains many GALAXIES. Maybe the 156 billion lightyear measurement was for this galaxy, and as to what lies outside it, space. Empty space, as the boundries would be defined as the furthest stars from the centre. Its not like the spacial consistency would change outside the galaxies boundaries.

[WeekendLazyness]

This galaxy is nowhere near a fraction of 156 billion lightyears wide.

Nuts, in response to the expansion/contraction theory:
When scientists decide what is fact and what isn't, they vote on a bunch of theories. Whichever is the most popular is known as fact. So we could be totally wrong about everything. As a matter in fact, there was a recent article on the NASA website that stated Galileo could be wrong about gravity.

[Battlecruiser]

I think there could be a wording problem here.

By definition i thought the universie is infinite, but it contains many GALAXIES. Maybe the 156 billion lightyear measurement was for this galaxy, and as to what lies outside it, space. Empty space, as the boundries would be defined as the furthest stars from the centre. Its not like the spacial consistency would change outside the galaxies boundaries.
Like weekend lazyness said, this galaxy is much smaller than 156 billion light years. They are not even comparable.

[Grom_Icecream]

Shot down. Heh.

[OboeGuru]

The Question "What lies outside those however many light years?" is absurd.

By definition the universe is everything. there is nothing outside, there is no where for it be.
Read up on the Big Bang Theory, bud. It allows for the generation of multiple universes. In fact, for out universe to develop as it is, there HAD to be multiple universes generated from the Big Bang. "Universe" is an outdated term that simply has not been changed. It is true that the dictionary/latin-derivative definition of "universe" is essentially "everything" like you said, but the actual meaning in this day and age is more along the lines of "This cluser of matter in an untold network/supercluster of such clusters."

[Battlecruiser]

Read up on the Big Bang Theory, bud. It allows for the generation of multiple universes. In fact, for out universe to develop as it is, there HAD to be multiple universes generated from the Big Bang. "Universe" is an outdated term that simply has not been changed. It is true that the dictionary/latin-derivative definition of "universe" is essentially "everything" like you said, but the actual meaning in this day and age is more along the lines of "This cluser of matter in an untold network/supercluster of such clusters."
Yes, it is called parallel universes. It was in some magazine I recall.

[Ender]

The multiple universes thing was in the movie "The One" starring Jet Li. Weird ass movie, but sweet fight scene at the end, Jet Li versus Jet Li.

[Battlecruiser]

The multiple universes thing was in the movie "The One" starring Jet Li. Weird ass movie, but sweet fight scene at the end, Jet Li versus Jet Li.
Who won? Jet Li or Jet Li?

[GrassDragon]

I saw that movie too. Jet Li won the end fight. I never saw it coming...

[Frattimonde]

Makes no sense.

Why should the universe be limited?

[Battlecruiser]

Makes no sense.

Why should the universe be limited?
Yeah, that was what I was thinking too. I guess physicists know something we don't.

[singo]

Because, if the universe was infinate there would be an infinate amount of matter in it.

therefore there would be an infinate mass

infinate mass= infinate gravity

the universe would collapse in on itself.

[Battlecruiser]

Because, if the universe was infinate there would be an infinate amount of matter in it.

therefore there would be an infinate mass

infinate mass= infinate gravity

the universe would collapse in on itself.
Your logic is wrong. What do you mean by infinate gravity? At one point? Or the sum of all gravity? And if you do the sum of all gravity, you would reach infinity very easily because there are infinate points in a space that isn't a singularity.

[DZeil]

infinate mass != infinte gravity.

Do you know what infine is?

And how could the universe collapse? That would require it is being heald appart.

[singo]

it IS held apart, by the momentum of the particles travelling away from the point of the big bang

when said particles slow down enough....collapse

[DZeil]

There is a difference between the ENTERGY of an atom, and the momentum of an atom, one stop's it's existance.

And please, show me where you read that we are being heald open by momentum of particles, please.

[singo]

i didnt, thats just my own theory, everything is moving away from the big bang, yes?

so everything has momentum in the directions AWAY from the big bang, so logically, when the gravitational forces, actiing, on average, towards the center of the universe overcome that momentum, motion will occur towards that point.

[Vashy]

Light Years is the measure of how far light travels in a year, but the universe may not have a constant "clock". What may be a year here on earth could be thousands of years somewhere else, according to a theory I read about "Time Wells." In this theory, the Universe has "divets" where gravity warps how time as we know it works, and causes fluctuations. If this theory holds true, our solar system could have existed much longer, by universal standards, or nowhere near as long as we thought. It was a very complex theory that I am probably doing a horrible job of explaining. I read it in some magazine in the school library last year when I was skipping my zoology class :P

[singo]

If time actually exists and is not just a way to note the order of events

[IceFlare]

by the time u sed it until the time i posted..... the universe has probably expanded by another bajillion light years.... its ever expanding.... unless its shrinking to the big crunch. but wut lies past this many light years? white? black? both?

[TheBB]

Wow, there's a lot of bullshit in this thread.

[Sperate]

This thread brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.


Does anyone have anything new to say?

[singo]

doubt it.