What was the most powerful ancient civilization?

[SHISHKABOB]

What do you think was the most powerful and intellectual ancient civilization that ever lived? Excluding tribes like the Huns and Visigoths and stuff.

[RogueRed2]

Rome, obviously.

I would have said Greece, but they didn't go out and conquer most of the known world like Rome did.

I would have said Atlantis too, but I think you guys know why I didnt choose it.

[Evangielis]

China.

My Reason why = What Rome is to the West, China is to the East. The only difference being that Rome is dead.

[pixels]

Civilization? No idea. Group? Genghis Khan's...

[Evangielis]

The Khan's don't count because they were tribes. Actually, they were from the same stock as the Huns so they doubly don't count :)

[Battlecruiser]

The Aztecs? They were pretty smart.

[Ender]

Nah. Personally, being Italian, I would say Rome, but I might even have to say no.

The Mayans were brilliant. They controlled a pretty decent amount of land, and were total geniuses, with advanced astronomy, mathematics, and medicine.

[Frattimonde]

The Romans, and China.

[RogueRed2]

China.

My Reason why = What Rome is to the West, China is to the East. The only difference being that Rome is dead.

Why China? Wouldn't Japan be a better choice?

China gets owned by Japan, no matter how you slice it. Ever heard of Manchuria? WWII? Imperialism?

In all those examples China had been brutally raped by Europe and one of the few asian nations to thrive like a European power, Japan.

I mean, Manchuria had been taken over TWICE by foreign invaders in these modern times.
Once was by Japan as a result of the Russian/Japanese war to take over Manchuria, and the second time was in 1931 when Japan invaded it.
Of course this was during the years before WWII, and even America was afraid to lead a direct attack on Japan since every Japanese warrior was ready to fight to the death for their country. Only then was Japan defeated by an American ultimatum, the use of the atom bomb.

During the age of imperialism China was far worse off. China was literally being carved to pieces that France, Britian, Germany, and Japan wanted. China was a very stubborn nation, and didn't want to get better technology and open to European thoughts so China was very close to becoming a bunch of colonies. It was only due to the United State's help that China was spared from being taken over and made to little colonies, including colonies led by Japan.

I don't know about you, but Japan would be a better example for domination in the east.

[Evangielis]

The problem with that theory is the fact that Japanese civilization draws a lot of inspiration from Chinese culture during the Tang dynasty, when the sent scholars over to glean information on Chinese sciences, art, culture, politics, and religion. China has been conquered on multiple occassions by foreign powers and yet the robust culture has survived and integrated each invader into its own.

With regards to the Japan vs. China debate in particular. The Japanese didn't even discover rice cultivation and metalworking until 300 B.C. So I hardly think they count as an ancient civilization by any means. And it wasn't until 1868 that Japanese civilization decided to get off it's collective asses and go conquer someone. Before that even Korea could kick it's butt in various naval engagements over the years.

Over time China has claimed a large number of discoveries which have had their influence over other cultures across the globe including gunpowder, the printing press, silk, magnetism and a the science of tactics. It also may very well hold the title for discovering the Americas and other far away lands (i.e. Australia.)
(ref: http://www.1421.tv/the_book.asp)

It also possesses on its landmass the only man-made structure visible from space (i.e. the Great Wall).

Now as for military victories, during the Yuan dynasty Kublai Khan conquered a lot of landmass in the nearby area (stretching into the Middle East and Southeast Asia.)

In terms of pre-history, there is no known evidence that China even went through an agricultural revolution. As far as historians can tell people in the Huang-he river valley always knew how to farm. Evidence of the first dynastic imperial culture place the Xia dynasty back somewhere circa 2000 - 1500 B.C. However, archelogical digs have unearthed skulls of peking man dating back to 600,000 B.C. and farther. There is strong belief that human evolution in China occured parallel to human development in Africa.

As for having America save one's ass, I don't think their's a developed country in the modern world that hasn't had that happen at least once. I mean, the Americans re-wrote Japanese culture during MacArthur's presidency in Japan.

I'm sure there's some other things I could think of but I can't think of them right now so that's my 2000000 cp.

[Grom_Icecream]

I would say the Mongolians were the most powerful. They controlled the largest amount of land at the peak of their power with most of asia, and parts of europe and the middle east. They kicked some serious ass on and off the battlefeild. I know some people argue that they were tribes but the majority were ruled by Genghis Kahn and they did conquer most peoples that got in their way.


It is argued that people did evolve in China as well as Africa but it is not likely

[ShawnManX]

The Mayans and the Incas as well as the Azteks. The Egyptians had quite something at one time.

[Kamikaze_Chicken]

The Roman Empire

[KesTrel]

The civilization of Mu.

[Evangielis]

Well presuming the legends to be true about Mu, I would have to agree with you on that one Kes.

As for the Mongolians, keep in mind that Genghis's empire didn't outlive him by very long and Kublai, his grandson, conquered in the name of China whose culture he idolized.

[Grom_Icecream]

As for the Mongolians, keep in mind that Genghis's empire didn't outlive him by very long and Kublai, his grandson, conquered in the name of China whose culture he idolized.
True, but at his peak he DID control the largest land empire ever, i thought it was even bigger than the USSR. Im not sure if you base power on longevity or not. Kublai did not do half so well as Genghis did.

[hammocksleeper]

The Moorish empire was pretty fucking amazing. Mayans had really cool culture though.

[Evangielis]

Well I feel longevity counts when trying to quantify the power of a civilization. I mean, what use is a one-shot wonder? I mean, the sun never used to set on the British empire, but then the imperial age had all the staying power of old fish. Yet I would venture to say it had a far greater cultural impact than Mongolian rule ever had a chance to.

I also have to agree that the Moorish empire was nothing to sneeze at. Had they been victorious at the battle of Tours undoubtedly the course of history would have been vastly changed.

[Neo]

What is the "Mu"

Been awhile for me...

I would have to say Aztecs/Mayans or the Egyptians. The fact that they could build huge monuments, almost perfectly aligned, etc... makes one wonder.

I dont know. Rome was powerful, I suppose, but I dont if I consider them an "ancient" civilization.

I think I like the Mayans as the most Powerful, well at least the most educated. Mayans and Egyptians are both good canidates. Though I dont know ><

Not like I was around to actually judge that kinda stuff :)

Besides did rome ever create a city like Machu Pichu (omg i need to learn to spell, sorry :/)

-Neo

eDIT: Nevermind, Id have to say the Mu as well, if its true, which Iw ouldnt be surprised if it was, I mean theres even more basic evidence most of the History of the humans on earth is wrong, but mainstream archeology has it stuffed in a store room of whatever museum :P.

[Kahuzal]

In theory? Antlantis. But I doubt they exist/existed. ... Much like the "hitler went to the southpole and then inside the empty earth for the rest of his life theory" ... it falls appart in many places. With the hollow earth, being that hitlers scull is in a russian archive folder, and atlantis, being that it's second to impossable for any of the theories to come true, such as the "overnight" movement of the contenant to the north pole, or the advanced civilization sinking... and not having any form of boat.

[SiegeTank]

The Mayans didn't come about until 250 A.D. If Rome doesn't count as an ancient power then I don't know how you can consider the Mayans, seeing as that Rome was already on the height of it's power when the Mayans were barely recognizable as such.

I would definately go for Rome, which was arguably the strongest of all ancient powers, at least in it's hay-day. And if we count the Byzantine empire as "Rome", it has a pretty good shot at being one of the longest-standing empires in history as well. Even though the Egyptians probably take the cake for that one. Other ancients that are runners-up: the Babylonians, Assyrians, Hittites, Sumerians, Greek, Persians, Chaldeans, Akkadeans...

[singo]

erm...66.67% vs 33.33

so the poll adds up to 100.01%

okaayyyyy

[dunchy]

This is a somewhat difficult thread for me to decide what was the most powerful civilization because each had unique traits that stood out. Take for example Alexander the Great of the Greek. One battle I remember with Grade 6 was how Alexander took 40,000 troops to destroy Darius of the Persians, the final battle Alexander and Darius had was the Battle of Gaugamela (I think that's how it spelt). Alexander won, using the tatics to go straight for Darius and have the calvalry protect the flank. It worked, Darius lost and Alexander was proclaimed the liberator of Babylon.

Him at his power was immense, winning battle after battle after battle all in rapid sucession. Soldiers respected him and would fight when the odds were stacked. It's very hard to stack this against such as, say the Romans. Their battle tatics included every unit in a group to know it's position, and keep to that. When a siege would happen on a town, when the walls fell land all hell broke lose, the Roman army would not care who it was in the cities, everyone must die. Children, Old, Man or Female, all were slaughtered, crushed.

The mongols (Note Genghis Khan) were expert horsemen, and could cover amazing distances very very quickly. The Mongols literally decimated populations in Western Asia and China as they advanced. More terror tatics were used, and towns would simply surrender when the Mongols would be seen on the horizon.

How can you compare all these Civilizations?

My best possible guess is to judge how long these civilizations have been around and the Influence provided. I would say Rome would be my choice. Even after Rome fell, it's cousin to the east (Byzantine empire) stayed alive for many generations, even after the city was sacked ( Was it the Turks that sacked Byzantium?) Oh, here's something interesting to note about the Final real Roman city Byzantium (or Constantinople if you want to call it that) lead a force of 4,000 troops and succeeded in holding off 160,000 advancing Turks for seven weeks. But the City suffers its inevitable fate and falls on Tuesday, May 29th of 1453, Byzantium was renamed in 330.

Amazing.

[Battlecruiser]

erm...66.67% vs 33.33

so the poll adds up to 100.01%

okaayyyyy
Do your math again. 66.67 and 33.33 add up to 100%.

[Modred]

"Moorish" is too general. There have been at least three (possibly four, not sure here) Islamic empires centered from northern Africa, at least one of which expanded well into the Mediterranean and a large part of Spain. If you count the Ottoman Empire (technically a moorish empire), "moorish" would extend until the early 20th century. Not quite ancient.

China was much more advanced that Europe in terms of scientific discovery and exploration. However, when China withdrew into isolationism (around the 5th century AD I believe...too lazy to look up the dynasty) the emperor decreed that all ocean-worthy ships be burned and prohibited travel outside of the Chinese border. Were it not for Chinese isolationism, I am quite sure that China would have easily surpassed, in "power" at least, the budding european nations that grew out of the fall of the Roman Empire.

Also consider that a large percentage of Incan architecture appears to have Chinese influence. I've seen a couple of documentaries that theorize that the Chinese sailed across the Pacific on the Japan Current and sailed along the coast of the Americas long before Colombus.

I find that the more powerful civilizations were those that influenced other civilizations the most. Thus China, which influenced Japan, Korea, and most of the far east, the Mongols (under Ghengis Khan), which spread the cultures of China to Europe and India and vica versa, and Rome. Of course, Egypt was a major influence upon the Mediterranean and Africa and the middle east for a couple millenia, so I should include it was well.

Take for example Alexander the Great of the Greek.

Just to provide correctness, Alexander the Great led Macedonia to conquer Greece, then conquered Persia and Egypt and proceeded to India.

[Nostradamus]

I would have to say either;
The Greeks
The Chinese
The Japanese
The Romans
Or
The Aztecs

[RavageR]

WTF are you saying.
Greeks,Babylonians,Egyptians and all Native tribes of America(Aztecs,Mayas etc.) were ancient civs, China has its own history and civ too, all the others were built from their ashes!!!
An empire is measured by the influence and the advancements that were made during their reign and still live today, not by their strenght of arms or the massacres they made and the land they owned, what trully lives is their spirit!!!
All the militaristic "empires" were conquered by the culture of their "slaves".
Alexander the Great merged the cultures of Greece,Egypt and Babylon.
Rome adopted that culture and philosophy, embraced the architectural knowledge of those empires as also their science.

[d00d]

China. Because I'm Chinese. =P

I don't think that Japan should be an "ancient civilization" because they were influenced by the Chinese.

And why the fuck is this poll closed?

[singo]

ok its official, i cannot count :P