Help with macroing

[opcwal]

Hmm, I think macroing is the most important part of the game. Microing might win you fans and battles, but macro wins the war. So I talked to a korean ex-semi-gosu today, and he basically told me to

1. memorize build orders
2. micro your units, so like with 2 or 3 groups, occasional individual attention and correction is needed
3. memorize more build orders, and then some, and also counters
4. play a lot for experience

To you "really good" guys, what am I missing?

And how could I improve my macro? I know that sounds really generic, but we can start with generic answers. Thank you for your time and input.

[Protogod]

Macro includes cash flow and gate control.

Cash flow should be handled with normal expos and such. If you have an average surplus of over 1.5k you can easily do better with your construction.

For starters, you can build more gateways/hatcheries/factories. This will increase the speed at which units are created. Next, you may want to hotkey your gates. I advise that you hotkey the numbers 6 or 7 to 9 or 0, depending on how bad your macro is. Save the numbers 1 to 5 for units selections, so that you can still micro.

[Glordag]

Well, not that I'm "really good" by any means, but I definitely think macro is much more of an experience thing than anything. Once you have build orders down, what's left is almost all experience based. For example, a large part of macro is knowing -when- to expand, -when- to build more unit-production buildings, -when- to tech up to this and that, and then managing ALL of that while microing at the same time. To me, it's an easy matter to know what -should- be done, it's just hard to actually execute it. I noticed that, in a game I played with another WBer, when he let me survive after he would have normally killed me, I got to concentrate a little more on my macro. It gave me the realization that, if you're too focused on your micro, your macro isn't going to improve as fast. Try to keep that in mind when playing your games, and maybe your experience will be more worthwhile towards your macro. Instead of focusing way too much on your attacking force every game, maybe you could try to focus on expanding and building the right buildings at the right time. Sure, this might lose you some games at first if you waste a lot of forces, but it might pay off in the long run.

Just my two cents as somebody with the same problem :P

[Sambo83]

whenever ur not doin anything else.. expand.. that's a good starting point cuz it's better to be on that side of the equation than expanding too little.. once u start expanding a lot, then you can learn how to not over-power.

[lammas]

korean ex-semi-gosu

his aka?

but about macro:

this is from me and ahzzs tvp guide but its true in general too^^ (btw caps lock doesnt mean anything just happened to have that on while writing)

5 RULES ABOUT MACRO.

1. NEVER LET MINERALS ABOVE 200 UNLESS YOU ARE EXPANDING. NOT SPENT MINERAL IS A WASTED MINERAL. (NOTE THAT THIS IS ONLY TRUE
UNTILL YOU GET 3 EXPANSIONS AND GOT 12 FACS PUMPING ALL THE TIME)
2. EVERYTIME YOU FIND YOURSELF HAVING 200+ MINERALS BUILD FACTORY. (WHEN YOU HAVE 10-12 FACTORYS STOP BUILDING MORE)
3. NEVER HAVE MORE THAN ONE UNIT COMING FROM ONE FACTORY. (THO WHEN YOU HAVE 12 FAC AND 6000 MINERALS THIS DOESNT MATTER)
4. NEVER HAVE AN IDLE SCV. (BUT IN LATEGAME IT CAN BE GOOD TO HAVE 4SCV SITTING IN YOUR BASE READY TO BUILD, SO YOU DONT
HAVE TO WASTE TIME FINDING SCVS TO BUILD)
5. NEVER HAVE FACTORY NOT BUILDING UNITS.

Well thats so generic that its quite obius as most generic things often are. To let you know how to do it (btw note that is for terran or toss not for zerg):

hotkey your cc to "1" for example
hotkey your group of marine to "2" for example
when you are microing you press 2a + click if some marine is hit by many lings for example you move it back. Then when you see that everything is going fine (note not when battle ends but when you arent needed to activly micro your units!) you press 11 scroll to your barracks put one marine coming out of each and press 22 again. Also press 1+s while during battles so you have scvs coming all the time. When you have enought scvs set "1" hotkey to a barracks.

you can see first person rep of me (my own cause i cant find any better players fp rep right now and its easyer to imitate chobo like me instead of trying to imitate
iloveoovs macro) if you have pp. maybe that helps also.
http://www13.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=5812 (http://www13.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=5812)

[blupp74]

hotkey your cc to "1" for example


I prefer having all units on 1,2,3,4 and 5 (used to have comsat there, but have now finally gotten used to having them on 8,9 and 0).
To quickly switch back to my CC I just hit spacebar when the SCV is finished. Sure, I lose half a second before the new one starts building, and this does add up, but I don't think it makes a huge difference anyway.

For me, it means I have my units more quickly accessable, and I don't have to replace the 1 hotkey (and I've noticed I absolutely suck at replacing hotkeys...hoping to get better soon though).

(For those who do not know, hitting spacebar centers on the location of the latest event, be it upgrade complete, unit ready, or building/addon finished. Either way, in 80% of the time, it will take you back to your main).

[Sambo83]

Why do you stop at 12 factories.. or talk about having 6000 minerals wtf?

Do u think macro stops after u hit 3 bases... I've had PvTs where I've had close to 30 gates..

I usually save first 4 hotkeys for units, and then have gates/hatches at 5-9 or 0.. depending if I use 0 for a shuttle or somethin like that... then lategame u just macro with 2 hands and it's ez.

[lammas]

Why do you stop at 12 factories.. or talk about having 6000 minerals wtf?

wtf? but 12fac is usually enought to produce units to replace those that die. tho you might sometimes need more ad 14 can be good if you go camping. on some very special and rare occasions you make 20fac but 12 is fine ofte enought.
If you 12fac is too weak vs mass gate heres vs white-maniak (A pgt) 12fac vs 20gate gg. http://www13.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=5817 (http://www13.rapidupload.com/d.php?file=dl&filepath=5817) btw u need to have pp on to view it.

Do u think macro stops after u hit 3 bases... I've had PvTs where I've had close to 30 gates..

no but for every exp you put 25 scvs. if you have 5exp you have 125 scvs in them meaning u can make 3g units meaning that when you have limit toss still has two times bigger army. You need 5g units when u have limit and thats why u have 3exp running all the time. btw what do your gate amounts have to do with the expansion amount terran needs in tvp game?

[Sambo83]

6 bases with 12 scvs each harvest a lot faster than 3 bases with 25.. why do you need 25 scvs at every base? Generally for toss peon production should stop around 70 probes.. I would guess terran is similar..

Sure you're generally right that 10-13 factories are good for 3 bases, your guide reads to me like your'e stating this as a limit.. like once you get there, you're done.. That's the point I dispute. If you have a push going on or whatever and the toss can't break your center at the moment and you have 1000 minerals, expand again and throw up more facts.. 12 facts and 3 bases is not a stopping point... its the usual equilbrium.

[lammas]

~25 4for gas (depending on map ofc) 21 for minerals u have 2scvs for everymineral patch
(depending on map ofc). If you expand 6times you have to defend much larger area yet you dont gain nearly anything.

btw what map are you playing when u have six expansions? luna for example:
opponent at 5 you at 1 you take all upper expansions.Now you have 4exp but when 1 runs out as it will happen in 1-2 minutes you have 3exp going. Where shall I put those 3 other exps? Or iam playing tvp on rh it becomes very long game I exp to second natural and to other main now i have 4exp running?

ure you're generally right that 10-13 factories are good for 3 bases, your guide reads to me like your'e stating this as a limit.. like once you get there, you're done..

you can stop making more with 12 and let money go up to 6000 and still have enought units. 3bases running all the time you can stop expanding (meaning that when ur main and natural are run out you still have 3exp running).

[blupp74]

you can stop making more with 12 and let money go up to 6000 and still have enought units. 3bases running all the time you can stop expanding (meaning that when ur main and natural are run out you still have 3exp running).

I am nowhere near either lammys or sambos level, but I'm inclined to agree with lammy...
+3 expansions packed with workers is a lot more to defend = less focus on attack. For each expansion that gets killed (which is more likely since you can't defend them all equally well) you get hugely set back in income, and you have to replace it to regain the intake.

[GroG]

Eh, blupp, I'd say you are pretty close to Sambo's skill level. Maybe you should just challenge him to a 1v1 instead of automatically thinking he's a superior player.

[blupp74]

Eh, blupp, I'd say you are pretty close to Sambo's skill level. Maybe you should just challenge him to a 1v1 instead of automatically thinking he's a superior player.

Well, not only have I not played him - I haven't seen him play anyone else either. I don't know why I assume he's better...I just do.
Wouldn't mind playing him though.

HOw do you know I'm close to his skill level?
I played horribly when I faced you. All times, in fact.

[GroG]

Because I know Sambo from BF, and I've played you recently. If I know anything about Sambo, he's just trolling around here to post "knowledgable" information, yet he isn't actively playing starcraft right now, which is why you have never seen him play (if he was playing, he'd have shown up in the channel).

It's just a guess, but I'll bet I'm right. Your macro is probably 5x better than his.

[Sambo83]

I did show up in the channel once.. all i saw was a couple newbies, all afk. Anyhow, right now I can only go on europe gateway for some reason.. but i been playin a lot of zerg lately.. not as much as i used to i guess since i play wow now.

Grog, what was your bnet name? I can't seem to find any replays of me spankin you in my immense replay folder..

[Cpt.Chronic]

Grog, what was your bnet name? I can't seem to find any replays of me spankin you in my immense replay folder..
He was Dark Dalton at BF...maybe that will help...not sure of his b.net nick though.

Anyway, on topic....well, actually, I can't provide much useful info on macro, I win 90% of my games through micro or just having better strategies than my opponent that adapt to the situation I'm in. Lammy is our resident macro guru so I'd say listen to him.

[Cpt.Chronic]

Grog, what was your bnet name? I can't seem to find any replays of me spankin you in my immense replay folder..
He was Dark Dalton at BF...maybe that will help...not sure of his b.net nick though.

Anyway, on topic....well, actually, I can't provide much useful info on macro, I win 90% of my games through micro or just having better strategies than my opponent that adapt to the situation I'm in. The other 10% would be from luck or cheese, and I win 0% due to good macro. Lammy is our resident macro guru so I'd say listen to him.

[GroG]

Yep, that's me. And you have no replays me of you spanking me because I'm not quite sure you ever beat me. I could be wrong, though.

I post over at BF under Toma now, but all my aliases are in my signature and my BNET profile.

[opcwal]

Well, thanks everyone. I got my info due to everyone's help.

Sorry, but what is pp, Lammy? PenguinPlug or what...

Again, thx for the tips. :D