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Flametrooper
09-28-2006, 8:56 PM
Raiding...a very interesting topic. Well, anyways, I made a strat for SC.org and not many people have responded so here is the strat on Warboards.

Before I begin, let me address a few things about this. One, this is my last strategy, and then I am done, so take it easy. Two, this is a combination of Raiding Tactics against Zerg for the Terran and Perfecting the Art of Raiding. It includes both, but has its own form to it. Now, sit back and read, hope you enjoy!

Mastering the Art of Raiding
Infiltration
This is a tactic that calls for ghosts, marines, firebats and medics. If you do not have Brood War, obviously no medics, so make do without them. Along with these, you must have dropships, and siege tanks are good but not required.
Your first objective in this tactic is to cut out the stream of resources that are coming into the enemies Hatcheries or Nexus. For this, ghosts are all but useless, so use a combination of marines, firebats (although they are practically suicidal in this case), and medics. Siege tanks help here, because they can lay waste to drones and probes within seconds, but they are not required.
Either maneuver a dropship to behind your opponent’s resources or drop your troops off and maneuver them. When you are out of sight and ready to strike, come just within range of the enemy workers and open fire. Repeat for as long as you can. If you destroy the whole base with such a small force, than you are definitely not playing a veteran.
Now most of you experienced players out there right now are probably rolling your eyes. Well here, a bit of an improvement.
Possible Counters and how to defend against them: This should be done early in the game, which means you have to make a tech rush while still defending. Good luck on that. Anyways, if it is early in the game, you will be facing hydralisks, dragoons, Zerglings, and Zealots most likely. This can be countered with the units you have. The more dangerous alternative is that your opponent will place a photon cannon or a sunken colony near their resources. Most of the time, players put it in the path between their resources and their base, which is not a big deal, but if they put it outside and behind their resources, you will need a good way to defend against it. Suppose they put a sunken colony there, what do you do? Cloak your ghosts and go kill their workers. What if they put a photon cannon? Get a siege tank, blow it up, drive into their base, and distract them while you kill the workers. What if there is a sunken colony and a spore colony? Destroy the spore colony with a siege tank, do suicide run for distraction, ghosts attack. The Firebats are also a great distracter because they can make dangerous suicide runs, killing many.
Now, if you are mid-game or end-game, there will be air units, so beware. Mutalisks (at least a few) can be sent away from marines and ghosts with medics, but guardians and the likes of that will be a problem. If you can and want to, build a small camp where you can retreat. All there needs to be there are bunkers and missile turrets. Keep air units at standby and Goliaths ready also. Lurkers and cloaked units will also probably be there in a jiffy, so keep science vessels handy. Distractions are key in this strategy, so sending a dropship you just used on a suicide run, making them think you were going to do an attack is good. Lure as many units away from your current position as possible before striking. If carriers or reavers come, use ghosts to do lockdown then finish them off. If a Ultralisk comes, use your siege tank/s and ghosts under cloaking.

Okay. That was just your first objective, now for your second objective.
Your second objective is to spread your opponent’s army thin, and then land troops in different spots, taking advantage of weaknesses.
So, we will pick up where we left off. Your opponent’s economy is all but gone, and your ghosts are constantly making sure he gets none or very little minerals through constantly killing workers.
Now, your opponent’s army should be in some kind of defensive formation right now, and you need to spread them out. To do this, send or drop your troops all over their base. Make them large enough groups to cause damage and focus their army, but small enough so you are not losing a whole chunk of your army.
If you are successful, your opponents army should be spread out by now. Now, find five (more or less) weaknesses in your opponents spread out defensive structure. Build five attack forces, large enough to do quite a bit of damage, but small enough to not lose enough, and march on the weaknesses. Have some back-up forces ready, and when your forces die, most likely, send in your back-up forces into the spots they abandoned to defend other places. Continue this till, one, you run out of minerals, two you don’t want to spend more on this, three, you destroy your opponent, four, you get attacked, and any other reason you can think of.
Now, here is the situation, your opponent’s army is spread out, a large chunk of it is gone, and they most likely do not have the money to buy more troops. Odd how such a small group of infantry did so much damage, huh?
Possible Counters and how to defend against them: Lurkers and cloaked units: if there are lurkers or cloaked units and you need a detector, a science vessel is obviously a first choice. But what if you can’t get a science vessel there? Then you are in trouble. There is not much you can do except the siege tank trick where you put a marine, SCV, or other cheap unit on the approximate location of the lurker and attack your unit with a siege tank. Quite effective. I am sure that this would work with cloaked units too, especially dark templars. Air units: If you are attacked by air units, it is useful to have a goliath, marine, or ghost if you are fighting the protoss. Use your ghost to lockdown the enemy unit, and then destroy it. If it is Zerg, do your best to fight it off.

Now, the final objective. The killing blow. Get a force together of moderate size. You need something that can ward off troops attacking you in a ground assault and you need something that can easily attack air units. It is safer to not take wraiths in because they are practically useless against ground units and hydralisks could quite easily take them down. So, I would suggest taking Goliaths, Siege Tanks, and Marines. All useful for this stage. Siege Tanks will keep them back on the ground, Goliaths will keep them back in the air, and Marines will just be an all around helper. Do not forget to take Science Vessels to detect cloaked units or lurkers.
Now, move in, through dropships preferably, and drop your troops around the enemy base, which should now be greatly reduced. From here, it is easy…open fire. Use your men still behind the resources and your back-ups from Phase 2 and charge, being careful with some units to make sure they do not build more workers. With their resources cut off, most of their units dead, and you constantly attacking, they do not stand much of a chance.
If your first attack fails, retreat some units behind their resources and rebuild. Continue till they are dead. You have just completed (hopefully) the Infiltration tactic. A quick review: Stage 1: Cut off resources, Stage 2: Destroy most of army, Stage three: Finish them off

Possible counters and how to defend against them: By now, you should be well enough off to fend off anything but…Lurkers/Cloaked units: The usual stuff. Science Vessels help. Air units: The Goliaths are there for a reason… Ally’s support: Watch out for this. Finish them off quickly before they can ask for help from allies.

Good luck.

Perfecting the Art of Raiding
The art of raiding is something that many people know, but few people have ever mastered. I haven’t even mastered it, but I love doing it never-the-less. Before you go around raiding people, make sure you have a good Plan B and a Plan C. Also, make sure you have allies who are willing to help guard your base and attack with big armies.

Before you go any further, know that all raiding does is annoy your enemy. It is not necessarily a path to ensure victory.

First of all, for raids you should have a comstat station and units you can use for scouting. Scout around the edges of the enemy base and find a good entry point. If it means making a huge detour around them then coming down, then do it. If you move down the edge of the map and come up from behind, then you can most likely find a weak point.

After you have found a weak spot, position a drop ship with a very small force near there. One siege tank in that force helps. Then in about three other random spots away from the base, drop one siege tank. Destroy as much as you can before the defender’s force comes and kill the siege tank. Repeat a few times if possible then drop troops into the weak spot. This will keep the defender on the tip of his toes and always rebuilding. Therefore, it will be hard for him to send massive forces out.

It also helps if you drop in a few vultures (especially if you are fighting a Zerg or Protoss player) and lay mines in or around the enemy base, limiting their ground movement.

I know, this sounds stupid, but by doing this you either stop the defender from sending out his army, spread his army out, destroy detectors, or all.

True, the defender would regroup soon, so this is where your allies come in. They then bring in a huge air force and many dropships and position it at the weakest spot, while you take lightly loaded dropships and unload in every other spot. Check to see if the weak spot isn’t guarded. If it still is, repeat.

When the weak spot is a bit less guarded then before, send the huge army in. While the big fight goes on, make sure your best raiding parties are at the back with siege tanks and all the other stuff and are just being plain annoying. You will either annihilate the enemy, lose lots and lots of troops and annihilate the enemy, or get annihilated but still do a whole lot of damage.

Now this wasn’t anything. To really do raids and perfect the art of raiding, you have to practice.

By the way some things not to do while raiding are.
Send in Firebats, Wraiths, or other close quarters or weak units.
Send in massive armies
Land in the center of the enemy base
Lure your enemies allies to their base
So, if you want, get out there and start raiding.

Raiding Tactics
Five ghosts sit in a dark corner waiting for reinforcements. One orders a nuke and aims his gun towards his target. As the nuke lands, siege tanks surround the base and destroy it inch by inch…

I, personally, have found two tactics for the Terran that work really well against the Zerg if you do them right. They work well if you are constantly under attack but still want to fight at the enemy base. But you must have a good defense first. There is the Frontal Assault Raiding Tactic and the Surround ‘N Blast Raiding Tactic.

Frontal Assault Raiding Tactic
Requirements: About 6 Siege Tanks, 12 Marines, 2/3/4 Wraiths, about 5 dropships
Optional: 3 Ghosts, Battlecruisers

To do this, land your troops either behind or directly in front of the base. Behind works better for smaller forces, but in front will give you a chance to take out Spore/Sunken Colonies.

Use your Siege Tanks and sit on the outskirts of the base in Siege Mode. DO NOT attack with your marines because if air units attack your tanks, and you do not have air support, you are busted. Destroy enemy units first, then Spore Colonies. When you clear the Spore Colonies, send in air units to help destroy the Sunken colonies. Move your tanks further in till you have destroyed the enemy base. Remember, Siege Tanks are the Zerg’s weakness!

Possible counters and how to stop them: The Zerg could send in their massed army of Mutalisks and Guardians. If you are not inside the Zerg creep, keep an SCV nearby and build up missle turrents. Also, make sure that you have plenty of wraiths and other stuff that can easily defend long range against the guardians especially. Guardians are deadly because they can be right outside a missle turrents range and still hit you. Make sure you have an air force for support against this deadly counter.
Next, the Zerg, with their deadly burrowing junk, could send Lurkers against you. Once again, here you should have detectors nearby and it will be a snap. Science vessels will certainly do. Also, this comes from another strat, but you could place an SCV or another not so important unit on top of the where you think the lurker is, then have your siege tanks shoot your unit, killing the lurker in the process.
If you think of any other life-threatening counters against this attack, please PM me or post a comment.

Surround ‘N Blast Raiding Tactic
Requirements: About 12 Ghosts, 5 Tanks, 10-12 Marines, 2 or more Wraiths, a bunch of Dropships
Optional: More ghosts, Battlecruisers, Science Vessels

For this one, take three dropships and land four ghosts on ever side of the base except the front. Make sure you have three Nukes also. Use the Nukes and cloaking to destroy quite a bit of the base. If this fails, just continue with the frontal assault tactic. Make sure you destroy the Spore Colonies.

When you are done, send the ghosts in and do commando-like raids till they die. While they are fighting send your main force of siege tanks, marines, etc. in front of the base. Make a raid the same way you do in the Frontal Assault. Once again, keep the Marines near the tanks. Destroy units, then Spore Colonies, then Sunken Colonies.

What helps in this is if you attack with the main force right after the Nukes land. By then, there will be total confusion and it will be a good chance for you to attack.
Possible counters and how to prevent them: Air attack: Have goliaths, wraiths, Battlecruisers (if you have the money for it), and if you can build them missile turrets. Lurkers: Get a detector, if not, use the trick mentioned in many other strategies about placing a SCV on where you think the lurker is then shooting the SCV with a siege tank.

These tactics work quite well if you use them correctly. If you don’t, well, you just lost a whole bunch of Minerals and Vespene Gas. Good luck and fight well!

Not the best I know, but there it is. The last two or three tactics aren't all that great, but how about the first one?

B.A.Baracus
09-28-2006, 9:02 PM
Cute, welcome to WB, Im SlickRick from sc.org. Have fun with the big kids.

own3d0406
09-28-2006, 9:15 PM
This is flawed, there is no way you can completely cut off your opponents resources just by using drops, most players put spores, cannons, and turrets next to there mineral lines anyway.

Maybe a BO would be better? Maybe it's just me, but I think I'd have a hard time teching to ghosts early game AND defending my base.

Average :/


Oh, nevermind

TSOShadow
09-28-2006, 10:29 PM
Thiers... basic guides i guess I could say... But to effective cut off enemy resources you need a easy opening..

(say 1-2 anti-air defense) and a quick way to exploit it... (such as a few tanks seige and blow em up then send drops in...) quickly seige tanks in drops with M&M's ready and a ghost to try and drop a nuke while M&M's stand and cover them all...

now once this is secure I say take this as a good oppurtuniy for a distraction... u don't really need to micro unless ur facing storms and such from toss then u gotta space units out... or have enough tanks to clear any threats away :/... anti-air could be rines or a cloak wrath squad squeezeing in to cover ur drops...

Then simply while he attempts to save the money supply to his armies you send spell casters into the enemys front of thier base with assult forces... or into other expansion/bases...

A few things to research for good harassment is if plague is seen as an attack on the minimap and other such handy tools to use to get damage with out detection...

And basicly it's the same with all races jus diffrent units...

Take this info I say and try and edit ur work.. shows potential...

Keys:
Oppurtunity. (small amount of defenses... or over spent on defenses... ;)..)
Speed.(can you quickly strike and get in? or u gotta wear em down wit plagues?)
Tactics.(Swarm for most terran projectiles... parasight 4 sight of wat 2 counter wat enemy produces...)

Weild these tools well and ur have a powerful force for any enemy...

I've taken out a BC and ran through a terran out post with 1 defiler... the BC cost about 5k I think... it was a UMS match.... funny as hell ;)

U-238
09-28-2006, 10:35 PM
It's alright for a first strat however ditch the ghosts. They're pretty much useless for expo harrassing. (and in general)

Also harrassing is highly dependant on what your opponents race is as well. M&M drops work wonders vs Zerg but they fail miserably vs toss. For toss you'll want to use a vulture raid. Same goes for T however goliath drops work well to in that mu.

Alexisonfire
09-28-2006, 10:46 PM
This is a tactic that calls for ghosts it is at this point i stoped reading and decided ur strat is not worth my time now excuse me i found a site with all the episodes of the simpsons, southpark, american dad, and family guy

Ahzz
09-29-2006, 9:45 AM
k. to thread creator: your ideas are flawed and you couldn't pull that off vs someone as good or better than you

U-238
09-29-2006, 10:42 AM
Well okay that's fine but eh couldn't you help him out and point out the right way to do things like this?

U-238
09-29-2006, 10:44 AM
-.- now isn't the time for this. You guys come down hard on the newbies who don't know what they're doing but don't inasmuch help them to understand what's right... You know most people will listen to advice that's given them if they actually get some good stuff to chew on.

B.A.Baracus
09-29-2006, 12:35 PM
Yes its nice what hes doing, its just he has no experience of what he speaks. When I was new to the game I didn't go out of my way to wright page long strats that I wasn't sure worked or not. I'm sure if he asked a specific question he would be mobbed with answers.

GroG
09-29-2006, 1:29 PM
**completely relearns starcraft using 'raiding'**

This reminds me of a time I met a man who played terran using the "cockroach". Instead of building all your buildings together in your base, you put them spread out all over the map so you were so decentralized your opponent could never really find you or kill you. I tried to learn the cockroach from him, but after watching several of his replays (all horrible), then me playing him and beating him, I decided it was a good idea not to learn it. But still, the "cockroach" is a legendary build only masters can ever truly hope to learn.

Glordag
09-29-2006, 3:28 PM
**completely relearns starcraft using 'raiding'**

This reminds me of a time I met a man who played terran using the "cockroach". Instead of building all your buildings together in your base, you put them spread out all over the map so you were so decentralized your opponent could never really find you or kill you. I tried to learn the cockroach from him, but after watching several of his replays (all horrible), then me playing him and beating him, I decided it was a good idea not to learn it. But still, the "cockroach" is a legendary build only masters can ever truly hope to learn.


Or...you could just play zerg for a while :P

lammas
09-29-2006, 3:39 PM
As I said at scorg (yes I did post there ._.) some much text to few facts.

Flametrooper
09-29-2006, 8:09 PM
Thanks for the advice...and other stuff. Can someone here write a list of things to do in a raid?

own3d0406
09-29-2006, 8:17 PM
Thanks for the advice...and other stuff. Can someone here write a list of things to do in a raid?
So your saying you had no idea what you were doing when you wrote this?

B.A.Baracus
09-29-2006, 10:32 PM
So your saying you had no idea what you were doing when you wrote this?

I said that earlier, and whatshisname told me to be more "intellegent".

Giantfish
09-30-2006, 1:27 AM
Thanks for the advice...and other stuff. Can someone here write a list of things to do in a raid?

I can't help you out with perfecting a raiding tactic, but here's some tips on how you can work on it by yourself.

Play more people. Try to play opponents that play at a level that is equal to or better than your own. Save replays of your games and watch for what you did wrong and what you did right. If you need help with that, post the replay and you'll probably get what you need.

Watch replays of starcraft pros. I haven't watched many myself, but I'm sure there are plenty of examples of harassing. Ignore the stuff with ridiculous amounts of micro. Nobody expects you to do that.

lammas
09-30-2006, 4:57 AM
Thanks for the advice...and other stuff. Can someone here write a list of things to do in a raid?

Maybe it would be good idea to go to bnet and play 500 games. After that you might know enought about sc to make a guide.

I dont really understand why so many scorg users make strategyguides eve if they dont know anything about scstrategy. Just as well they could be writing poker strategy guides, icehockey guides, how to fix cars-guides, or any other guides. How to fly a space shuttle guide ffs. They have just found nice community and thought "wow so cool i wanna post guides here" never stopping to think if they really have something to tell about strategies.

Schwitzer
09-30-2006, 9:14 PM
You will notice that about 70% of this thread has disappeared.

If I have to step in like this again I will be handing out bans without further notice.

Constructive criticism or don't post. Those are your options.

TSOShadow
09-30-2006, 11:09 PM
Something I wanted to say about Raids is you can have different types of raids...

Strike forces to seek out wandering armys...

ok an example of a Strike force is a group of cloaked wrath (naturally), maybe a muta group (thier fast), and a group of scouts...

now each group has it's advantages and other groups sport better Strikes then others... SV's can cause some trouble.. goliaths can work both ground and air quite well...

(Supply Rush I'll call this but I think theirs a better name for it...)
Forces you drop behind enemy lines to either tear the base or weaken enemy resources...

This usually comes with tanks on cliff, guardians, and high Templar and Revers... usually in minimal numbers...

And I guess Another thing to consider a raid is the tech rush... Where you seek out key tech buildings... (eg. Spawning pool, Academy, and Cybernetics bay)

Now as the such as the Cybernetics mentioned above they are key to many building techs the players need to reach...

These are usually targeted bye surviveing supply rushing forces... or normal assults microed to hit more key buildings in the event of a not being able to destroy the whole base...

Now depending on the time of game these forces units may varie...

Earlygame: zlot, lings, rines and medics are most comon to go for either tech if the player intends to tech faster and higher or supplys if they wish to control more units and slow down the enemy in all areas...

Midgame: vultures/tanks,hydra/lurkers,goon/DT's/high templar,

All very good for mass murder of peons and targeting single buildings... also good for createing windows for which to invade....

Lategame: Wraith/tanks/, Guardians/mutas/lurk/hydra, revers/DT's/High Templar/Archons...

Bit more risky as spell casters are all about... but can be key to the deafeat of a well matched enemy...

P.S. Thx Schwitzer...

WickedImposter
10-01-2006, 8:18 PM
ya there are many types of raids. mainly against zerg theres supply raid, which may involve sairs or wraiths, there worker raid, usually involving lurkers, tanks/vults, or reavers, and then there are also expo raids, which may sometimes merge into worker raids, but involve the 'cliff' tactic involved with lt.

TSOShadow
10-03-2006, 7:39 AM
I have updated my post and in this one I want to get into standing and mobile Raid groups...

Statioined (Standing) Raiders can prove nice nice distraction as your opponent spends time and resources trying to remove them... While he moves troops out and around to take care of the intruders... You have a nice window to move assult forces and spell casters from the other side of the base or any other way you wish you enter...

Mobile Raids are basicly the other half of your assult being planted behind thier base and both forces meeting in the center of his base... or a group that moves from base to base...

I'll get to describeing these things a bit more detailed another time...

lammas
10-03-2006, 8:41 AM
I dont see the point of all this theory crafting? yes there are "raids" (never heard anyone using that word about sc before made it up by yourself?) so what?

TSOShadow
10-03-2006, 1:19 PM
So this is a tactical chamber discussing thier uses in games... So ppl may use these tactics or try new ways to cause damage with out directly blowing up the enemy base...

So that players may find handy ways to win Use Map Settings games or Melee matchs...

And if a player isn't as good as others in over all game play it dosen't mean they can compeletely useless... they can perform raiding tactics to win the match...

I don't know how many matchs I won in a merchant rpg (as merchant) by just makeing queens and continuesly parasighting and ensnareing the enemy.. eventually getting defilers and plagueing troops... or laying out swarms as the enemy fought off computer spawned units... (thus making it so comp units would have advantage...)

A more intense moment was I had 1 just barly surviveing drop ship with 5 ghosts.. and I continued to go from one group of farming units to another cutting off enemy resources...

After clearing off most enemy farming units I attempted to return to a more advanced farming area rarly used in a match... to attempt to farm enough for a new army... (in the end I lost the ghosts in the drop but the implacations coulda switched around the final results...)

Now you may not know the rules of this map but tactics are very important and if done right continues "raid" tactics can be the diffrence between victory and defeat...

blupp74
10-03-2006, 1:30 PM
I get the feeling that 98% of the people who come here come here to discuss normal games (not UMS) on normal maps (not fastest or BGH).
Maybe there should be separate sub-forums for those, or something.

When reading a headline like "Raiding" I assume it's related to melee games.
(Though I haven't heard it called raiding before...).

So if you feel that the response is other than what you expected, that may just be the reason.

TSOShadow
10-03-2006, 1:49 PM
Raiding can apply to anything within SC... and raiding works out side of melee... so my startgies apply not only 2 one but both... with the exception the UMS may require less or more units...

own3d0406
10-03-2006, 5:52 PM
So this is a tactical chamber discussing thier uses in games... So ppl may use these tactics or try new ways to cause damage with out directly blowing up the enemy base...

So that players may find handy ways to win Use Map Settings games or Melee matchs...

And if a player isn't as good as others in over all game play it dosen't mean they can compeletely useless... they can perform raiding tactics to win the match...

I don't know how many matchs I won in a merchant rpg (as merchant) by just makeing queens and continuesly parasighting and ensnareing the enemy.. eventually getting defilers and plagueing troops... or laying out swarms as the enemy fought off computer spawned units... (thus making it so comp units would have advantage...)

A more intense moment was I had 1 just barly surviveing drop ship with 5 ghosts.. and I continued to go from one group of farming units to another cutting off enemy resources...

After clearing off most enemy farming units I attempted to return to a more advanced farming area rarly used in a match... to attempt to farm enough for a new army... (in the end I lost the ghosts in the drop but the implacations coulda switched around the final results...)

Now you may not know the rules of this map but tactics are very important and if done right continues "raid" tactics can be the diffrence between victory and defeat...
No one gives a fuck about UMS

(P.S How the fuck do you farm minerals? Do you plant grains and water it? What kind of soil do you need? How do you farm in the winter?)

TSOShadow
10-03-2006, 10:18 PM
"I don't know how many matchs I won in a merchant rpg " thiers ur first clu to wat i was talking about -.-...

My raiding tactic was dropping my last surviveing men into enemy territory witha weak drop ship and killing of lings that were feeding on the source of money in this game... (kills)

Now if my drop didn't pass 2 close to hydras on my last trip around the map i could have turned the odds in my favour and won...

thus was my raiding tactic but since not fully prepaired failed in the end...

(P.S. How the fuck do you mis "merchant RPG?" you musta tried really hard to read that...I kinda put that thier as i would figure you would assume it a noobish map and ignore it...)

WickedImposter
10-04-2006, 4:29 PM
umm nobody gives a shit about UMS here, unless its something involving micro like micro tourney. most people here come to get better at playing SC NORMAL games on NORMAL maps. UMS is not one of those methods.

own3d0406
10-04-2006, 4:36 PM
"I don't know how many matchs I won in a merchant rpg " thiers ur first clu to wat i was talking about -.-...

My raiding tactic was dropping my last surviveing men into enemy territory witha weak drop ship and killing of lings that were feeding on the source of money in this game... (kills)

Now if my drop didn't pass 2 close to hydras on my last trip around the map i could have turned the odds in my favour and won...

thus was my raiding tactic but since not fully prepaired failed in the end...

(P.S. How the fuck do you mis "merchant RPG?" you musta tried really hard to read that...I kinda put that thier as i would figure you would assume it a noobish map and ignore it...)

I'm sorry I misunderstood your post, I'll edit my old one.

TSOShadow
10-04-2006, 9:27 PM
Once agine Wicked Raiding can apply to all game types... I was giving an example of raiding on a smaller scale but effective...

It can apply to melee but it requires more units... probly more spells... and some carful micro....

own3d0406
10-04-2006, 9:51 PM
Once agine Wicked Raiding can apply to all game types... I was giving an example of raiding on a smaller scale but effective...

It can apply to melee but it requires more units... probly more spells... and some carful micro....
Then what was that whole rant about merchant?

TSOShadow
10-04-2006, 10:15 PM
A example as mentioned... it was diffrent ways I performed raiding on the enemy...

if it's hard to under stand ask me to simplfy it... dont just comment that it's stupid... and not worth reading... it's not worth typing if you don't even try to read it....

own3d0406
10-04-2006, 10:26 PM
A example as mentioned... it was diffrent ways I performed raiding on the enemy...

if it's hard to under stand ask me to simplfy it... dont just comment that it's stupid... and not worth reading... it's not worth typing if you don't even try to read it....
It's not worth reading when I can't understand half of what you said, it's hard to understand because of your bad grammar.

TSOShadow
10-04-2006, 10:34 PM
Thats it...

Schwitzer This isn't a troll tell me what is...

Cpt.Chronic
10-04-2006, 11:04 PM
Thats it...

Schwitzer This isn't a troll tell me what is...
The only troll here is you.

TSOShadow
10-04-2006, 11:28 PM
Don't you start...

Cpt.Chronic
10-04-2006, 11:33 PM
Don't you start...
We're well past that point.

blupp74
10-05-2006, 4:19 AM
Thats it...

Schwitzer This isn't a troll tell me what is...

He said you have bad grammar. And you do.
How is Troll relevant here? It's very hard to understand you sometimes (or rather, all of the time). Getting past your grammar, and then trying to understand what you're trying to achieve with your tactics...it's..well..difficult.

I assume english is not your first language?

TSOShadow
10-05-2006, 1:00 PM
If you didn't understand my posts you wouldn't be able to comment them...

Not to mention that you only flame my grammar after saying my strategies is useless..

Your complaining about the advice then complain about the grammar...

You’re just looking for things to flame about me...

Doing it in multiple threads...

Not proving anything except that I don't spell as well as you like...

Just because you don't understand the message you then post that my comments are un-wanted worthless...

Thus is trolling when you could simply ignore my post...

Thus is trolling...

Violators of this are:
Blupp (minor trolling)
Cpt.Chronic (medium)
owned (Extreme)

lammas
10-05-2006, 1:26 PM
If you didn't understand my posts you wouldn't be able to comment them...

Not to mention that you only flame my grammar after saying my strategies is useless..

Your complaining about the advice then complain about the grammar...

You’re just looking for things to flame about me...

Doing it in multiple threads...

Not proving anything except that I don't spell as well as you like...

Just because you don't understand the message you then post that my comments are un-wanted worthless...

1. If you want peoples to ignore your post please dont post at all.
2. Your strategies are useless. We really dont need your strategies that you have tested on merchant ums, that dont work in 1v1 games (vs human opponents). Maybe sounds a bit harsh but thats how things are. If you keep playing sc and read these posts after a year or even a few months youll understand why we arent so amused by them.

TSOShadow
10-05-2006, 1:29 PM
If it's useless prove it.. stop flameing and actually prove something...

And I post because and intellegent person like flame troop can actually use this information.. if he dosen't understand or wishs to challenge my advise he can post him self challengeing my comment with a counter idea...

And i'll prove him either wrong or right...

lammas
10-05-2006, 1:38 PM
Ok how do I prove it? And what is "it" referring to?

TSOShadow
10-05-2006, 1:45 PM
If you don't know you shouldn't be saying anything...

lammas
10-05-2006, 1:59 PM
I know that every single post of yours has been rubbish Iam quite sure that "it" is too. ("its good to leave gap in wall" and "dmatrix is a way to break containment in tvt"). So just what I prove and how and I will. kk?

TSOShadow
10-05-2006, 2:00 PM
I said prove what is wronge...

lammas
10-05-2006, 2:01 PM
yes but I want to know what we are talking about? what strategy do I have to prove wrong?

TSOShadow
10-05-2006, 2:09 PM
Well your the one saying my strategies is wrong... still w8ing for you to prove it...

lammas
10-05-2006, 2:10 PM
what strategy? can u copy paste it here so i tell why it doesnt work?

blupp74
10-05-2006, 3:32 PM
Oh, dear...

If you didn't understand my posts you wouldn't be able to comment them...


Some of your posts are not entirely understandable. I comment what I assume you're trying to say.


Not to mention that you only flame my grammar after saying my strategies is useless..


Oh, I'm sorry...should I have "flamed" your grammar first? Was I unpolite?


Your complaining about the advice then complain about the grammar...

You’re just looking for things to flame about me...

Doing it in multiple threads...

#1: Yes, that was indeed the order in which I complained.
#2: I'm not looking for things to "flame" about anyone. But when a person posts a "strategy", gets feedback (where I agree some of the feedback was a little too harsch a little too fast), and then COMPLETELY ignores the feedback, or any of the arguments of the feedback, still promoting his "strategy" using arguments that have already been shot down by people who know this game in and out...well...then you're pretty much begging to be "flamed" (and I use quotation marks because I don't consider any of my responses to your posts flaming).

#3: You post things in multiple threads, I respond in multiple threads. You're equally stubborn in each post, in each thread, so why should a response in one thread be different from responses in other threads?


Not proving anything except that I don't spell as well as you like...


Several people have "proved" as much as can be proved by telling you.
Not that this works at all, since you're so spellbound by your "strategy" that you're not hearing what anyone says.

They have also requested replays (proof from you) that you have not given us. They have also asked you to play them, giving you a chance to prove yourself, and them a chance to show you what they're talking about.


Just because you don't understand the message you then post that my comments are un-wanted worthless...

Thus is trolling when you could simply ignore my post...

Thus is trolling...

Violators of this are:
Blupp (minor trolling)
Cpt.Chronic (medium)
owned (Extreme)

The "trolling" you refer to doesn't even come close to what's usually considered trolling. And the harsh language tends to come out along with frustration, and I think we're all plenty frustrated with:
a) you defending your strategies with arguments that don't stick
b) your reluctance to post replays where this is displayed
c) your reluctance to play anyone here who has asked for it
d) all of the above

Ahzz
10-05-2006, 3:57 PM
you're very stupid TSOshadow. You spit out random facts which you cannot explain nor prove to be good or "right thing" to do. Then when we ask you to prove it, you say shit like "prove to me one time when it hasn't succeeded" LOLOLOL. You spit out the random shit, you prove your shit. Right?

ShadeZ
10-05-2006, 4:49 PM
What's the use in trying to explain why it doesn't work to him? He doesn't listen anyway, just beat him 1v1 then maybe he'll understand.

WickedImposter
10-05-2006, 5:20 PM
ya. i doubt he could beat even siegy 1v1. honestly, we cant prove his strats wrong because were smart enough not to use them.

own3d0406
10-05-2006, 5:34 PM
The last 4 posts FTW!

TSOShadow
10-05-2006, 8:20 PM
yhonestly, we cant prove his strats wrong because were smart enough not to use them.

If you don't use them how are u so positive they don't work?

own3d0406
10-05-2006, 8:34 PM
If you don't use them how are u so positive they don't work?
I really want to see a replay where this works, not on a money map or UMS shit either.

ShadeZ
10-05-2006, 10:14 PM
If you don't use them how are u so positive they don't work?
Because we established that they were not good long ago when we were all utter noobs.

Ahzz
10-06-2006, 12:56 AM
...thats just pathetic. You ignore all word-battles you lost, and start spouting new random shit. just reply to my dam post and prove it
If you don't use them how are u so positive they don't work?
heh. I for example have over 3000 games of experience, 1v1 games. That would be quite to know some shit about the game, wouldn't you agree?
And explain to me, why don't the top koreans that are best of this whole world NEVER EVER using this? This game is 8 years long dammit, if it was a good strat they'd be using it.

blupp74
10-06-2006, 3:32 AM
If you don't use them how are u so positive they don't work?

We don't use them because we already know it won't work against anyone except the noobest of noobs (not even Blizzards CPU).

With your stubborness I guess it would take you around 30 1v1 games to figure out this isn't working...so how many 1v1 games have you played on b.net?

Ahzz
10-06-2006, 6:41 AM
My bet is it's 100 tops playing only with noobie friend group and no one know what they're doin

WickedImposter
10-06-2006, 8:18 AM
or playing on fastest. and TSOshadow, merchant UMS DOES NOT count as 1v1 games.

blupp74
10-06-2006, 8:37 AM
or playing on fastest. and TSOshadow, merchant UMS DOES NOT count as 1v1 games.

I'd be surprised if he was playing fastest. Atleast in pubby games on b.net.
I think it's with his friends on a LAN or B.net.
I see no other scenario where he would think his strategies work. Even Blizzards CPU would kill him.
It would take an even worse human player to lose against him.

TSOShadow
10-06-2006, 12:44 PM
Plz tell me what is proper raiding then...

Cpt.Chronic
10-06-2006, 1:55 PM
Plz tell me what is proper raiding then...
Why? Not like you'd listen. That's about the only thing you've proven.

blupp74
10-06-2006, 2:41 PM
Plz tell me what is proper raiding then...

Like several of us have already said, the term "raiding" is not very familiar to us in SC/BW...but you seem to use it as a common word from everything from drops to general harrass.

And when you say things like "fly around with cloaked wraiths and look for things to kill", that's not very specific, or unknown for that matter.

"Proper dropping" is anything (involving a drop) that makes the enemy lose more than you do. "Proper harrass" works the same way - if he loses more than you, it's good. If not, it's bad (ie "didn't work"). There are different ways of doing many types of things, which is why you need to be a lot more specific when presenting strategies/tactics. You were quite specific (but slightly confusing) when you presented your "4 bats in bunker/hole in wall" strategy, but unfortunately the strategy was no good.

A strategy is good when it works. And I doubt what you presented with that post would work against anyone I'll ever face. But if it works for you, against the people YOU play, then go on and use it.
Just don't try to convert anyone here to thinking it's a good strategy, because no one will be convinced.

TSOShadow
10-06-2006, 6:38 PM
Once agine my advise isn't facts... And I sent my proof about the firebats...

simply a matter of adjusting to time frame... i posted at first for later game for vultures... which is assumeing he's still zlot rushing at that time.... I now posted for early game... any time frame after early game of course includes tanks and vultures...

own3d0406
10-06-2006, 6:43 PM
Once agine my advise isn't facts... And I sent my proof about the firebats...

simply a matter of adjusting to time frame... i posted at first for later game for vultures... which is assumeing he's still zlot rushing at that time.... I now posted for early game... any time frame after early game of course includes tanks and vultures...
:P You're in the wrong thread buddy, this is the "raiding" thread, not the "terran problems" thread. XD

TSOShadow
10-10-2006, 3:15 PM
Like several of us have already said, the term "raiding" is not very familiar to us in SC/BW...but you seem to use it as a common word from everything from drops to general harrass.

[QUOTE]And when you say things like "fly around with cloaked wraiths and look for things to kill", that's not very specific, or unknown for that matter.

It's used for a basic lay out... It's a step by step process and you should cover the basics b4 going into much detail... That is all thier is to that basic tactic...

"Proper dropping" is anything (involving a drop) that makes the enemy lose more than you do. "Proper harrass" works the same way - if he loses more than you, it's good. If not, it's bad (ie "didn't work"). There are different ways of doing many types of things, which is why you need to be a lot more specific when presenting strategies/tactics. You were quite specific (but slightly confusing) when you presented your "4 bats in bunker/hole in wall" strategy, but unfortunately the strategy was no good.

That is correct but also leaving troops in an enemy expansion keeps the enemy coming to try adn take it back... which can also be a form of harassment... your making him use resources on troops bunkered in an area he wants...

My bunker defense Idea is laying out troops early game and leaving opening the enemy wishes to use.. he waste resources trying to take advantage of it adn you use tactics to minmize loses...

Thus it works in your favour early game...

No time to explain it any better....

WickedImposter
10-10-2006, 5:31 PM
That is correct but also leaving troops in an enemy expansion keeps the enemy coming to try adn take it back... which can also be a form of harassment... your making him use resources on troops bunkered in an area he wants...

LOL. you got your turns wrong there. thats called "contain"(not that youd be familiar with it). and well stop making fun of you if you give us even 1 replay of any of your strategies working. thats right, ANY of them.

TSOShadow
10-10-2006, 5:48 PM
It's a contain ment when he's in the area useing the resources... It's blocking or defending when your at the resources.... nim rod...

And since you just assulted the area and left troops your not containing or mineing.. so it's a form of harassment... killing anything he sends to gather resources...

WickedImposter
10-10-2006, 5:51 PM
wha????? that makes no sense. containing is just camping outside his base, its in league with a push. thats called elementary... nim rod.

TSOShadow
10-10-2006, 6:00 PM
You: *captured expansion with military*

You: *keep troops at expansion but do not have economy built yet...*

enemy: *attk military at expansion* (Trying to take it back)

You get it yet? Your standing with just marines and tanks at an expansion the enemy was moving in on... it's containing nothing.... it's pushing nothing... it's just holding position killing any units that come along...

Get the fucking message?! For someone calling me a nim rod you sure are dense...

own3d0406
10-10-2006, 6:01 PM
It's a contain ment when he's in the area useing the resources... It's blocking or defending when your at the resources.... nim rod...

And since you just assulted the area and left troops your not containing or mineing.. so it's a form of harassment... killing anything he sends to gather resources...
Why are you still posting here? nim rod

own3d0406
10-10-2006, 6:02 PM
You: *captured expansion with military*

You: *keep troops at expansion but do not have economy built yet...*

enemy: *attk military at expansion* (Trying to take it back)

You get it yet? Your standing with just marines and tanks at an expansion the enemy was moving in on... it's containing nothing.... it's pushing nothing... it's just holding position killing any units that come along...

Get the fucking message?! For someone calling me a nim rod you sure are dense...
That's not what you said in your previous post, and yes, that IS a containment.

TSOShadow
10-10-2006, 6:08 PM
OK so who are you containing? because the enemy can move right on to the next resources... they simply had chosen that expansion point...

And did I not say in the first post leaving units at the guys base you just assulted? (destroyed if you don't understand assult)...

own3d0406
10-10-2006, 6:13 PM
OK so who are you containing? because the enemy can move right on to the next resources... they simply had chosen that expansion point...

And did I not say in the first post leaving units at the guys base you just assulted? (destroyed if you don't understand assult)...

I don't get what you're talking about, I'm not even going to try to argue with you if I can't understand what the fuck you're talking about. Edit it and clean it up.

WickedImposter
10-10-2006, 7:29 PM
wow. ok not everyone is as dumb as you. of course while containing id get expos and shit. duh. if your a dumbass dont be calling other ppl nim rods idiot. s

TSOShadow
10-10-2006, 7:45 PM
Wtf is wronge with you What happens when you destroy an enemy base? What is left thier?!?!

Just your own troops.... standing in a open space... with minerals and a sometimes Gas near by... That so hard to comprehend?

Now have the enemy try and attk ur men who are in this open space... and you have what I've been saying...

Fuck your the most numb ppl I've ever had the insult of meeting...

Alexisonfire
10-10-2006, 7:49 PM
come to op swbk at around 3pm est or add iS2Katy[GoD] and msg me some point we must play so u can pwn me with uber leet skillz @_@. useast btw

WickedImposter
10-10-2006, 8:00 PM
*sigh* you dont need skills to beat TSO. all you need is the basic knowledge of sc. btw jays you changed your bnet acc to iS2katy[god]?

@TSO: what the fuck does killing a base and containing have to do with each other? containing means you deny the person an expo, not attack their already made expo. god you really are an idiot. and if your so insulted to meet us why dont you just close your fucking account and stop coming here. trust me, if you had made a lot less stupider strats and had been a little less stubborn, you would find this site very helpful in all aspects of gaming. but noooo. you had to be a fuckturd even when its obvious youve lost. why dont you just give up. normally, i have composure. but right now im so pissed off because you have absolutely no means to justify your strategy, while you blab on about how were idiots, ever the hypocrite, and cant support your strats with a simple replay. you wont even go online because your so afraid of getting your ass kicked. heck, you even critisize our grammar when its flawless, yet you cant even make a single sentence that makes sense. you know, the insult is all ours right here. now what i want you to do is delete all your posts, then shut off your browser and never come to WB again.

Alexisonfire
10-10-2006, 8:06 PM
btw jays you changed your bnet acc to iS2katy[god]?old news buddy

WickedImposter
10-10-2006, 8:07 PM
least im updated now ^^

wait why does it say in the jays profile that hes an asshat or something? your insulting yourself?

own3d0406
10-10-2006, 8:07 PM
Fuck your the most numb ppl I've ever had the insult of meeting...
That's quite funny coming from you.

WickedImposter
10-10-2006, 8:09 PM
quite an irony actually. the dumbest shit alive calling ppl numb. ya that is pretty ironic.

TSOShadow
10-10-2006, 8:11 PM
*sigh* you dont need skills to beat TSO. all you need is the basic knowledge of sc. btw jays you changed your bnet acc to iS2katy[god]?

@TSO: what the fuck does killing a base and containing have to do with each other? containing means you deny the person an expo, not attack their already made expo. god you really are an idiot. and if your so insulted to meet us why dont you just close your fucking account and stop coming here. trust me, if you had made a lot less stupider strats and had been a little less stubborn, you would find this site very helpful in all aspects of gaming. but noooo. you had to be a fuckturd even when its obvious youve lost. why dont you just give up. normally, i have composure. but right now im so pissed off because you have absolutely no means to justify your strategy, while you blab on about how were idiots, ever the hypocrite, and cant support your strats with a simple replay. you wont even go online because your so afraid of getting your ass kicked. heck, you even critisize our grammar when its flawless, yet you cant even make a single sentence that makes sense. you know, the insult is all ours right here. now what i want you to do is delete all your posts, then shut off your browser and never come to WB again.

ROFL YOU BROUGHT UP "CONTAINING" YOU IDIOT...

own3d0406
10-10-2006, 8:14 PM
ROFL YOU BROUGHT UP "CONTAINING" YOU IDIOT...
What? Isn't that what we're talking about right now?:P

Alexisonfire
10-10-2006, 8:17 PM
pffft tso is a nub gg buddy just shot down all ur agruments thats alexis 100 u 0

TSOShadow
10-10-2006, 9:23 PM
ur un-orignal to... you take my sayings and use them all ur selves... that is a clear give away you guys don't know shit if you gotta rip it off me...

Alexisonfire
10-10-2006, 9:59 PM
pft common argument "u don't know shit" good job buddy u sure showed me
alexis 101 u -1 (y not)

ShadeZ
10-10-2006, 10:13 PM
ur un-orignal to... you take my sayings and use them all ur selves... that is a clear give away you guys don't know shit if you gotta rip it off me...
You think we know nothing? 1v1 gogo.

WickedImposter
10-11-2006, 8:26 AM
ya seriously. why dont you stop hiding and come out and play? i know. because you know youd get massacred by everyone. btw jays im pretty sure its more like WB:235 TSO:0