Secrets of microing

[blupp74]

Time to create a new thread, just for the heck of it.

Now that I'm getting a little more hang of my macro, it's time to get some more micro-tips. So please, people, share all you have to share about micro.
What to do, when to do it, what not to do, when not to do it, etc etc.

For instance, I've discovered that when doing hit-and-run with vultures there's a lot of timing involved. You have to anticipate when the vulture will fire, and command it to move just before that. Since there's a slight delay before every command is executed.

I have lots of problems when facing a zealot with 2 marines. What I would like to do is to fire with both marines, then the zealot will go for one of them. Immediatly move that marine, but still in range of marine #2. Then when the zealot goes for marine #2, move him, and start firing with marine #1.
This all sounds wonderful in theory, but I'm having some trouble executing it well.

Anyway, it's tips and tricks of this kind i'm asking about.

I've seen the reaver (or tank) drop done pretty well (unload tank/reaver, let it fire, load into dropship again). Anyway that can say anything about that?

[lammas]

I have lots of problems when facing a zealot with 2 marines. What I would like to do is to fire with both marines, then the zealot will go for one of them. Immediatly move that marine, but still in range of marine #2. Then when the zealot goes for marine #2, move him, and start firing with marine #1.
This all sounds wonderful in theory, but I'm having some trouble executing it well.

Dont even try. Iam not able to do that without and I have never seen anyone being able to do that, not even on prolevel
( boxer for example takes scvs to help when its 2marine vs zealot). Instead just run around with marines while you keep producing more marines. Send 4scvs to attack zealot. Then if you can do without getting hit by zealot send marine to attack zealot. If he tries to attack scvs go with marines when he turns to kill run again. If you just keep running around his zealot will be wasted as he cant make any damage with it and he will be in trouble countering your early attack if he loses zealot without getting anything done with it.

About 2 tank dropping: it can look cool and even get one extra goonkill for you but Its still one of the mos useless micro tricks ever (goes even past 1marine vs 1 lurk micro on list of micro tricks you dont need).

Just macro some more :D

[blupp74]

Dont even try. Iam not able to do that without and I have never seen anyone being able to do that, not even on prolevel
( boxer for example takes scvs to help when its 2marine vs zealot). Instead just run around with marines while you keep producing more marines. Send 4scvs to attack zealot. Then if you can do without getting hit by zealot send marine to attack zealot. If he tries to attack scvs go with marines when he turns to kill run again. If you just keep running around his zealot will be wasted as he cant make any damage with it and he will be in trouble countering your early attack if he loses zealot without getting anything done with it.

About 2 tank dropping: it can look cool and even get one extra goonkill for you but Its still one of the mos useless micro tricks ever (goes even past 1marine vs 1 lurk micro on list of micro tricks you dont need).

Just macro some more :D

Well, I completely agree. If you're at the stage where 1 tank means win or defeat, then you've pretty much already lost. And the focus it would require would definetly kill macro. Still, would be cool to be able to do it.

And as for the marines...well....guess I shall stop trying to do it then. I'll consider your advice on the SCV's though.
Of course, very rarely do they come with just 1 zealot...and if they do, another one is most certainly on the way.

[IrishDutchman]

Just macro some more :D

Sounds like lammas' motto if you ask me. :P

As for me, well, sorry. No advice here on the micro-department. I usually think that after 5 minutes, micro 'tricks' are pretty usuless anyway. From there on the most elaborate thing I do is dance my units.

[Cpt.Chronic]

If you use patrol to micro vults with hit and run they fire faster than attack move, but the best is focus fire.

[U-238]

Sounds like lammas' motto if you ask me.

Nono it's...

micro is for people who can't macro

[Superiorwolf]

Low lat decreases the delay between clicks.... but yeah dunno what to say I'm working on my macro :/

[opcwal]

I have lots of problems when facing a zealot with 2 marines. What I would like to do is to fire with both marines, then the zealot will go for one of them. Immediatly move that marine, but still in range of marine #2. Then when the zealot goes for marine #2, move him, and start firing with marine #1.
This all sounds wonderful in theory, but I'm having some trouble executing it well.


Hmm, I haven't heard of this. This looks pretty complicated; however, there's this awesome map I found that has taught me to micro ranged units. Patrol move. With some luck and skill you should be able to kill that lot.

However, really, micro is just for show... like our expert lammy here says, basically, its macro that wins you games.

[own3d0406]

I would tell you more on how to micro, but its a secret and my sensai would disaprove.;)

Anyway, Nasty is right, there are so many units involved in a battle latter in the game that little tricks like killing a zealot with 2 marines become pretty uselss, the best thing you can do is learn to multitask while microing like doing a drop while youre fighting a battle.

[Gladstone]

TvZ micro is more important than TvP. ^^

[own3d0406]

TvZ micro is more important than TvP. ^^ It may be more important, but Ive found TvZ micro more easy. Hotkey firebats 1, rines 2, and medics 3. Have firebats attack zerglings while rines target hydralisks and have medics between the rines and bats. TvP, there is the labor of having to siege and unsiege tanks, laying mines, and controling vultures which get hard to micro when youre playing fastest speed.

[Vezer]

Instead of wasting time microing rines in TvP, don't make any rines in the first place. Stick to vults and tanks, micro the vults to the lots and the tanks to the goons.

Is anybody here able to pull of the 1 rine lurker trick?

[ShadeZ]

It would be easy if they just went hydralisks wouldn't it ^^

[Alexisonfire]

the secret to microing is in the bible try reading it. unless ur a commie God hates u and ur gonig to hell anyways so don't even bother trying to change that

btw another slow day i really just wanted to post so i'm pimping the bible here

[Gladstone]

ROFL jays XD, the bibe is claimed to be the answer to "everything"

[blupp74]

Instead of wasting time microing rines in TvP, don't make any rines in the first place. Stick to vults and tanks, micro the vults to the lots and the tanks to the goons.

Is anybody here able to pull of the 1 rine lurker trick?

...and if he comes with goons and I have nothing but a vulture or two?
Sure, I'll see when I scout, but if I haven't even STARTED marines then, I won't have more than one when he gets there. And what am i supposed to spend money on while I get gas for factory and later tanks? Marines.

Some build only one, some build 2, some build 5.
And yes, some build none, but I haven't heard anyone say they always build none as a general rule.

Early game they might just make the difference.
And when he scouts you and see not a single marine, he will deinfetly go for you.

[Glordag]

It really is amazing how much 1-2 marines can make a difference in the beginning with proper micro. I've found running a vulture in front of the marine/s especially fun, since when the opponent targets the vulture you just run it away and the marine gets a few free shots. <3 vulture speed.

[WickedImposter]

ive had some good micro with rines. its useful when they rush 1 zealot to a no wall, and you have 2 rines. and rines are semi useful in tvp, just dont go mass. a few for anti air in a push b4 turrets maybe.

[neobowman]

scince this is a general micro thread i hope you don't mind a bit of protoss advice. A lot of times you see a protoss using a reaver drop. be careful with them if you do try. A corsair/dt would be safer and would require less micro. In my opinion more micro means more risk. stick with macro if you ain't a pro who can do more than 200 actions per minuite.

[Alexisonfire]

alrite neobowman i got a few things i would like for u to think about 1) ur name sux 2) ur signature goes perfect with ur name and 3) shut up

[GroG]

Blupp, 2 fact (both with add-ons) without marines is perfectly safe, with a wallin. Just make sure you produce a single tank out of the first factory, and park him at the wall. You don't need siege, unless they get goon range. You won't have extra mineral buildup, once you get the build down tightly. (of course, you can cut the tank out of the build, but this is risky and pretty much halts all 2 gate rush builds until they get shuttle or goon range)

Now, of course, if his probe harass slows you down, or he manner pylon/o-assimilator/pylon blocks your addons, you will be slower than his first goon (and will need to repair micro your wallin).

Honestly, I'd rather save the money not producing rines, unless I was going to gundam/joyo, or building one to kill his scouting probe. And 75% of the time, those two builds are useless due to spawning positions anyways. I guess you could say "but you can confuse them into either thinking gundam or fdterran", but good players already know what to do in these situations and it's just a waste of 200 minerals..

[B.A.Baracus]

Not making one rine tvp is stupid. If they find you they can just 2 gate lot and gg, I just watched it happen today.

[Sambo83]

lol... 2 gate zlot vs terran. I remember when that used to be a good build.. then somebody (NTT?) discovered you could wall in... and no you don't need 1 marine.. it's a waste of a supply unless you need it to kill their scouting probe..

[blupp74]

lol... 2 gate zlot vs terran. I remember when that used to be a good build.. then somebody (NTT?) discovered you could wall in... and no you don't need 1 marine.. it's a waste of a supply unless you need it to kill their scouting probe..

This may be true. But I think at some point it's just a matter of preference.
And while my factory is building, i'm builing SCV's anyway. I have the supply I need, and the minerals to make more when I need it, and STILL manage to squeeze in a few marines (usually no more than 3). And when my gas gets back to 100, I still have enough minerals to start another factory.

The only reason I could find to NOT build a single marine would be if I wanted to save the minerals for extra vultures (but when the factories are done I have enough SCV's to keep my mineral intake up, I still have enough to pump vults), or if I wanted to save minerals to be able to build CC a little earlier.

...unless I'm remembering something wrong...guess I should check the BO's more precisely. But I've never seen a good reason to not build a single marine.

[Sambo83]

mmm.. yea i guess not as many terrans are walling in these days.. im recently back from a long break.. and ur right it is preference.

I was basically responding to the inane commment about needing 1 marine or you'll lose to zeal rush O_o

Edit: I'm horrible as terran (but played many thousands of games vs them :P) I usually see a delayed SCV at 18/18 if you make a marine. There's really no reason TOO make one unless the scouting probe is still runnin around your base when you're ready to start your fact (don't wanna give away your early game strat).

[blupp74]

mmm.. yea i guess not as many terrans are walling in these days.. im recently back from a long break.. and ur right it is preference.

I was basically responding to the inane commment about needing 1 marine or you'll lose to zeal rush O_o

Edit: I'm horrible as terran (but played many thousands of games vs them :P) I usually see a delayed SCV at 18/18 if you make a marine. There's really no reason TOO make one unless the scouting probe is still runnin around your base when you're ready to start your fact (don't wanna give away your early game strat).

But...if you're facing P, how often do you NOT build a factory?
Sure, if you plan to cheese MnM you don't want him to see it, and then killing off the probe fast is necessary (and to prevent him cheesing pylons everywhere, if he is of that kind), but otherwise I don't see the harm in letting him see you start your factory.

If I'm at 16 supply and haven't started a depot yet (which is when I have screwed up...I usually start depot at 14) then I hold the marines and focus on SCV. Then again, this is not standard, since it involves having screwed up (assuming I don't screw up as standard...).
But IF I built it at 14, then the marines are not in the way of anything (except the earlier CC that I talked about for...but by then you have such fast mineral flow, those ~50-150 minerals are just a matter of seconds.

[lammas]

You don't need siege, unless they get goon range

you dont need even if they do. You just have to micro well and have 3scvs repairing.

There's really no reason TOO make one unless the scouting probe is still runnin around your base when you're ready to start your fact (don't wanna give away your early game strat).

but if you dont make a marine when he has a scout probe shooting your wall for 2minutes you lose more than 66 minerals.

[GroG]

If they get goon range, then it's ideal that you need siege in order to expand. The only way to leave your base is either with vults with mines/speed, or siege. Siege, being the easiest.

[Sambo83]

mm but when u build ur first fact gives a lot away about your build.. if you go second depot before fact then i know ur not gunna go fast tank drop and i can observer before my first shuttle, and I also know ur not gunna come out with an aggressive rush.. it's either gunna be a slow push or FE.

u can tell the same thing even if you don't get in his wall sometimes.. if the terran is at the second position u scout and his wall is done, then you know he made a second depot before a fact..

then there's the sneaky terrans that go depot before fact and then tank drop anyhow (a little slower than the usual build) u detect that when ur goon rush is met by seige mode.. u know they went seige before mines and they are prolly gunna tank drop.

U don't wanan give away that kind of information to the toss.. so kill the scouting probe before u start get to 15-16 supply.

[lammas]

I didnt mean that you would try to expand without siege i mean you will start exp before siege and that you dont need siege to defend against early range goon.

btw i havent done 2tank drop for ages but imo you have so much spare minerals when fac is ready that 100minerals spent on suply wont make a diffrence. ill see if i have rep to demonstrate this.

[blupp74]

mm but when u build ur first fact gives a lot away about your build.. if you go second depot before fact then i know ur not gunna go fast tank drop and i can observer before my first shuttle, and I also know ur not gunna come out with an aggressive rush.. it's either gunna be a slow push or FE.

u can tell the same thing even if you don't get in his wall sometimes.. if the terran is at the second position u scout and his wall is done, then you know he made a second depot before a fact..

then there's the sneaky terrans that go depot before fact and then tank drop anyhow (a little slower than the usual build) u detect that when ur goon rush is met by seige mode.. u know they went seige before mines and they are prolly gunna tank drop.

U don't wanan give away that kind of information to the toss.. so kill the scouting probe before u start get to 15-16 supply.

Hmm...not sure I know what you're talking about here.
I always build factory as soon as I hit 100 gas, and it doesn't interfere with supply depot building. I always build (start building) depot #2 before starting factory, usually at 14 supply.
I build gas at 12 supply and have 3 workers collecting.

Guess there's a chance I'm remembering completely wrong, but I really don't think so..

[Sambo83]

nah that's the normal build.. but usually if you're gunna do a fast push, the first fact will be at like 14 and the depot at 16.. same for drop build cuz the faster fact makes a faster starport etc..

idk.. i could be remembering it wrong, but that's how i always remember scouting pvt :P

[blupp74]

nah that's the normal build.. but usually if you're gunna do a fast push, the first fact will be at like 14 and the depot at 16.. same for drop build cuz the faster fact makes a faster starport etc..

idk.. i could be remembering it wrong, but that's how i always remember scouting pvt :P

But...eh...if I make gas at 12, it won't be done in time to have 100 gas at 14 supply. So "fast push" would then involve making gas earlier. Which means I'd have to sacrifice something. Either holding rax (ie starting gas before rax), or holding depots. Holding depots would screw up my SCV production, and holding rax...well...if they saw that then it'd be zealot rush for sure.
I could always block the ramp (on LT and such) with an SCV, but I don't get that 100% right all the time - sometimes the little buggers get in anyway.

[Sambo83]

hmmm maybe i got confused on this one.. srry haven't really played that matchup in a few years :P

Normally u build factory at like 18 supply right? I just know there's some builds where it comes in sooner and that's what the probe is lookin for.

[lammas]

http://www.warboards.org/showthread.php?t=20713&page=6

there you go scroll down and you see it uploaded there.

btw basic bo for tvp is 11rax 12 gas 15suply 16fac 18fac

nah that's the normal build.. but usually if you're gunna do a fast push, the first fact will be at like 14 and the depot at 16.. same for drop build cuz the faster fact makes a faster starport etc..

what exactly is a fast push that you are referring to? :o but you can 15fac too if you want it to come 7seconds earlier and pay some minerals for that.

[Sambo83]

meh.. no clue, im confused now. PvT is gay anyhow lolol.

[blupp74]

btw basic bo for tvp is 11rax 12 gas 15suply 16fac 18fac


Why 15 supply? When I do things right i have the minerals for a depot, and the next SCV, at 14 supply. Of course, at 15 supply, it's still done before i reach the cap. At 16 it's done slightly after the cap is reached.
So I really hate it when I'm at 17 and notice I haven't started building a depot yet.

[blupp74]

meh.. no clue, im confused now. PvT is gay anyhow lolol.

PvT is gay? What does that make TvP?
And which matchups aren't gay? How does a SC matchup become homosexual anyway? It's attracted to its own kind of MU?
That would make PPvTT gayest of all.

[GroG]

Just because it's "all the rage" not to wallin, doesn't mean I'm going to die to 2 gate zeal/goon. You do what you need to do in the game.

I have an awesome rep of an older PGTour game where my opponent does that pylon block behind your minerals with cannon, followed by cannon/zeal pressure on my wallin, followed by DT, followed by goon. The early game was just a hard play for me, if I can find it I'll post it.

Anyways, lammas, on our debate I think you expand earlier then the scenario I am thinking when we are talking, or we play differently. I usually do a lot of 2 fact builds, not a lot of 1 fact builds. So generally I am moving out of my base before I start my CC in my main to float. Either that or you know some secret to keeping a siegeless tank alive to goon w/ range pressure that I don't. If I don't get either of the researches, I lose my wall, and my econ suffers after.

Edit: Here's that rep.

[Glordag]

Now, of course, if his probe harass slows you down, or he manner pylon/o-assimilator/pylon blocks your addons, you will be slower than his first goon (and will need to repair micro your wallin).

Honestly, I'd rather save the money not producing rines, unless I was going to gundam/joyo, or building one to kill his scouting probe.

Lol, speaking of probe harass slowing down, the game I played with BAB the other day ( I think that's who it was ) TvP shows just how painful that probe can be. I made the mistake of ignoring it (yeah, n00b mistake, I know), and it pretty much halted my factory production. Uhg. That definitely gave him the edge with his dragoons early on for a pretty easy win :| .

[Glordag]

This may be true. But I think at some point it's just a matter of preference.
And while my factory is building, i'm builing SCV's anyway. I have the supply I need, and the minerals to make more when I need it, and STILL manage to squeeze in a few marines (usually no more than 3). And when my gas gets back to 100, I still have enough minerals to start another factory.

The only reason I could find to NOT build a single marine would be if I wanted to save the minerals for extra vultures (but when the factories are done I have enough SCV's to keep my mineral intake up, I still have enough to pump vults), or if I wanted to save minerals to be able to build CC a little earlier.

...unless I'm remembering something wrong...guess I should check the BO's more precisely. But I've never seen a good reason to not build a single marine.

Odd, I never seem to have that many minerals. Usually, I have right around 200 minerals when I hit 100 gas for a factory, and then I seem to have problems hitting 200 minerals again at 100 gas for a second factory. Maybe my scv production is a bit wacky...

[Sambo83]

lol yea one really gay trick is to build a pylon where their machine shop goes

[neobowman]

alrite neobowman i got a few things i would like for u to think about 1) ur name sux 2) ur signature goes perfect with ur name and 3) shut up
thank you

[blupp74]

lol yea one really gay trick is to build a pylon where their machine shop goes

To get anything out of that, wouldn't your probe have to be kept alive to re-make the pylon? Otherwise I could just liftoff and move the addon placement.

[Ixion]

tactic is generally only used if you're trying early goon harrass. Hoping to break their block before they can get their tank out. buys some time but most want to cancel the pylon before it warps. Ive only once placed it a second time where they set it down again. it was an asshole move so I cancelled it right away.

[blupp74]

tactic is generally only used if you're trying early goon harrass. Hoping to break their block before they can get their tank out. buys some time but most want to cancel the pylon before it warps. Ive only once placed it a second time where they set it down again. it was an asshole move so I cancelled it right away.

Asshole move as in you were evil for doing it? (Not likely...war is war). Or you thought it wouldn't pay off?
Do you get full refund for cancelled P buildings?

[Ixion]

Yes you do get the full refund for cancelled buildings as toss zerg too terran is dependant on how much of it was complete I believe. I figured the first time was enough of a slow down... the second time was a counting-coo thing. Did it just to see if I could get away with it again. I swooped in while the damn thing was dropping. It was a good friend so I just cancelled it.

[blupp74]

Yes you do get the full refund for cancelled buildings as toss zerg too terran is dependant on how much of it was complete I believe. I figured the first time was enough of a slow down... the second time was a counting-coo thing. Did it just to see if I could get away with it again. I swooped in while the damn thing was dropping. It was a good friend so I just cancelled it.

Atleast for Z extractor you don't get a full refund.
I'm pretty sure a cancelled hatchery doesn't give you full refund either.
(Had slightly over 350 mins in a game I was z. My base was being razed, so I created a new hatch in an expo, but had to cancel for some reason. I then noticed I no longer had +350 minerals. So I could build a hatch, but no new drones with it. Not that it matters...by that time it was gg anyway...)

[Cpt.Chronic]

Yes you do get the full refund for cancelled buildings as toss zerg too terran is dependant on how much of it was complete I believe. I figured the first time was enough of a slow down... the second time was a counting-coo thing. Did it just to see if I could get away with it again. I swooped in while the damn thing was dropping. It was a good friend so I just cancelled it.
As far as I can remember, you don't get a full refund for any cancelled building and the amount of refund you get for terran is not related to its completion percentage. There is a set percentage you get back for every building for every race, and it's never 100%.

[WickedImposter]

thank you

Thats classic Jays for you

lol yea one really gay trick is to build a pylon where their machine shop goes

Ya thats a pretty funny move, but more often than not ive seen a scouting toss do a pylon in wall-in thing, followed by zealots. extremely hard to counter, especially if your going metal and if you allow the pylon to complete, which will usually be followed up by shield bat or gateway. so extremely annoying.

[own3d0406]

lol yea one really gay trick is to build a pylon where their machine shop goes
Hooray for liftoff!

[GroG]

Except that lifting off your fact delays your tank significantly, and if the probe is alive, can run around underneath your factory and not allow you to land.

Once you understand this, you'll realize that you lifting off was ultimately their greatest hope of how you'd fuck up the situation as badly as possible.


A better alternative is to take 2-3scv's off minerals and attack the pylon, and start pumping rines out of your barracks. bring the first one over to kill the probe (rally rest to ramp), then attack the pylon. Once the pylon is cancelled/destroyed, quickly make your machine shop. Now park 4 marines on your ramp (if he's there with zeals/goons, take those scvs to repair wallin and and hold position rines behind the wallin). Now it's a micro war..

[WickedImposter]

ya but still it delayed it, and he can use this to greatly help him. i still stick with pylon in wall to a proxy gate if possible.

[Cpt.Chronic]

ya but still it delayed it, and he can use this to greatly help him. i still stick with pylon in wall to a proxy gate if possible.
Use like 6 scvs to kill pylon while you build rines. By the time you kill the pylon you should have killed the probe with rine(s) as well and build depot asap in place of pylon. If zealot comes before you've killed the pylon, use those scvs to form a block between the zealot and rines. Usually, the only way a zealot can get there that fast is if they proxied in the middle of the map.

[WickedImposter]

ya, but even if terran did that he would be slowed, and toss would have a slight early-game advantage, which may change the game.

[Cpt.Chronic]

ya, but even if terran did that he would be slowed, and toss would have a slight early-game advantage, which may change the game.
Trust me, it's the best alternative. When I was your level I used to lose to this all the time. Plus, he loses a hundred mins. for the pylon, and if he's relying on that pylon for supply he will have to build another before he can build more units. You will lose a whole lot more (than just a little mining time) if you don't attack the pylon and allow zealots to stream in.

[Sambo83]

Just like all openings, you hope that he is delayed by his noobie rush more than you are delayed by stopping it.

[WickedImposter]

kk thanks i got it.