Scouting with Zerg

[Superiorwolf]

This is one of the biggest troubles I have. I have trouble knowing when to scout, and how. In the beginning, I know how to scout, but mid to late game? It seems impossible for me.

In middle game, if I send a ling, boom, something hits it down in 1 shot just as I get near their base.

If I send an overlord, it's too slow even WITH speed upgrade and always gets shot down, even when I'm scouting on the outskirts.

If I send mutalisks, or scourges, they either get shot down or by that time scouting is going to do nothing for me as they will already have an army of tanks while I have some hydras :/

What should I scout with and how? Whenever I don't scout, I get owned by sometimes a secret army that I didn't see or 2port wraiths.

When I do try to scout, my scouts get owned... and then I get owned.

What should I do?

[B.A.Baracus]

If you really need to see whats going on in their base, group up 3 overs and send them on a suicide mission, 300 mins is nothing for a mass expoing zerg late game. Of course, I like queens, with their speed and parasite they make effective scouts, also against Terran ensnare + scourge equals great fun with science vessel^^
Against toss 3 queens running around parasiting archons can be a down right nuisance for P, but the overlord technique is just as effective + easier.

[GroG]

Park your ovies near cliffs of expos and such all over the map (to see troop movement). Then suicide if you need to scout his base or tech.

[Ficho56]

I mostly use queens and parasite

[Alexisonfire]

I mostly use queens and parasitethats y u suck

[Ficho56]

thats y u suck


well you're very nice

[blupp74]

well you're very nice

What Alexisonfire was trying to tell you, in his own special way, is that players of Zerg usually tend to find teching to Queen, and then making queens, just for the sake of parasite, to be less than worthwhile, since queens cost gas, and gas is better used for other things.

But, as I always say, if it works for you, then by all means go ahead and use queens.

Howver, you DO have lots of overlords...and a single zergling running back and forth could achieve the same goal. Both are way less expensive than queens.

[Ficho56]

I don't use queens just for that I'm not an idiot.
And I meant its good later when the enemy has brutal defenses.
Ofcourse I use zerglings and ovies I'm no noob.

[Alexisonfire]

I'm not an idiot.i disagree

[MatGeo]

I don't use queens just for that I'm not an idiot.
And I meant its good later when the enemy has brutal defenses.
Ofcourse I use zerglings and ovies I'm no noob.

Who the hell has brutal defenses?? U mean like your opponents turtle... :concern: Taht's not hard to beat at all and i don't see why you need queens when u play against a turtler u can just expo and outmacro him by far ...4 expos to zerg vs turtle = free win for Z

[Alexisonfire]

well mat u could have just did what i have and said something in 2 words that u said in a lot

oh btw mat get on the normal time tomorrie so we can play some

[MatGeo]

well mat u could have just did what i have and said something in 2 words that u said in a lot

oh btw mat get on the normal time tomorrie so we can play some

Well i like to be a little more subtle... i mean i don't hear that some1 uses queens and tell him "you suck" i explain to him that queens are a waste of money in a more peaceful way(so they don't get pissed off)...

Ya ok i'll get on tommorow...

[Alexisonfire]

Well i like to be a little more subtle... i mean i don't hear that some1 uses queens and tell him "you suck" i explain to him that queens are a waste of money in a more peaceful way(so they don't get pissed off)...

Ya ok i'll get on tommorow...i love how u quote the post even tho its the post rite before urs it just makes things look so much more important

[Glordag]

I was actually just about to post a message asking about this. I just played a game ZvsT. I went lurker/hydra and he went MnM/Tanks. I tried to contain him, but alas, I sucked at it and couldn't keep it up very well vs. his tanks and mob of MnM. Anyways, the point is, I couldn't figure out how to scout on him to see what his next move was. I couldn't tell if he was amassing lots more MnM/Tanks or if he was going to go for something a little more sneaky. I found out pretty soon after when an army of marines/tanks came marching through my door, but that was a bit late :P. I'm guessing a few ovies with speed upgrade would have done the trick, though.

[Protogod]

ZvP queens are useful. Parasite for scouting and brodling for HT.

ZvT queens are useful later. Just use broodling to rape tanks.

[B.A.Baracus]

I went lurker/hydra and he went MnM/Tanks.

Dont use hydra vs terran, thier almost useless.

Queens are good if you have surplus and know what your doing.

[aorsmith]

has any1 tried blocking wit lurker egges?

[B.A.Baracus]

has any1 tried blocking wit lurker egges?
What would that do?

[aorsmith]

works wit ZvP
ive tried it in comp games, u get a choke or if u find an exp
go behind the minerals wit a couple hydras and once ur opponet
sends units over to attack u,
zealots> morph lurkers to wall
dragoons> don't morph

it tends to be rare but sometimes you can find a nifty crevice in which
the enemy simply cannot get to u.

Edit: fer early on in the games
Edit again: also reminds me of the strat in which u block chokes wit stated probes

[Ahzz]

I do it fairly often infact. its really useful sometimes. For example... the enemy m&M got your expansion, and soon moving to your ramp to get your other exp, but lurker eggs blocking the way. Not only you slow him down, but you might actually save the exp with them and possibly have enuf time to bring reinforcements. Also sometimes works if your opponent only wants to run up the ramp to your main and ignore your exp sunks, you might start morphing lurks of em and really get the t. This sounds like it happens scarce, but I do use it fairly often

[AlchemistOfSorrow]

my strat for zerg scouting is to use 2 groups of 6 zerglings. Cheap and fast to replace. Just save the 2 groups to the Numbers 9 and 0. it always works for me.

[Glordag]

Heh, I'm not sure my micro is amazing enough to have a zergling get by if the T is paying any attention. Perhaps, though.

[AlchemistOfSorrow]

o its affective. When i had internet, that was what i would always do. I might of lost a group or two, but i alwayus had an extra group to back it up.

[Superiorwolf]

Just not very cost efficient, that's 300 mins right there ;)

[blupp74]

Just not very cost efficient, that's 300 mins right there ;)

OOh...I get respect? wow!

[Scourge_Splitter]

What Alexisonfire was trying to tell you, in his own special way, is that players of Zerg usually tend to find teching to Queen, and then making queens, just for the sake of parasite, to be less than worthwhile, since queens cost gas, and gas is better used for other things.

But, as I always say, if it works for you, then by all means go ahead and use queens.

Howver, you DO have lots of overlords...and a single zergling running back and forth could achieve the same goal. Both are way less expensive than queens.

my experience has learned to factor in the defensive power.
there are those funny guys why like to "photon" thenselves in then a few parasites does miracles.
the first one is the hardest...
the following are more easily

[Sambo83]

man... you guys must be pretty damn fast. I have a hard enough time keeping up with macro and trooop positioning/micro for lurk/ling or whatever i happen to be using. I'm amazed that you guys can spare the click time to operate a micro intensive high speed flying caster unit that easily dies if left unprotected.

Dont use hydra vs terran, thier almost useless.
lolololol... man... this is my first day back at this forum in a long while, and I've already found the biggest noob.. I could make a huge list of hillarious quotes just from the first page of threads. Sad part is, half the noobs probably believe and try to follow your bs advice.

[blupp74]

Dont use hydra vs terran, thier almost useless.

Queens are good if you have surplus and know what your doing.

Babs, why are hydras useless?
(I got awakened by Sambo's post).

Hydras would be zergs equivalent to marines, I would think.
I don't know what damage type they have, but they're small units anyway, fairly fast, and with range, and able to attack air and ground.

Couple them with zerglings and you have a pretty impressive force.

[Sambo83]

hydra/lurk is main line zvt, at least the last time I followed what "progamers" were doing.. although the kor kor strategy I been usin lately is 9 pool speeds into muta into muta/lurk -> lurk/ling -> ultra/ling.

[blupp74]

hydra/lurk is main line zvt, at least the last time I followed what "progamers" were doing.. although the kor kor strategy I been usin lately is 9 pool speeds into muta into muta/lurk -> lurk/ling -> ultra/ling.

Sambo, should I assume you're mainly a Z player?
Saw somewhere you said you weren't too good at T (whatever that means coming from you)...ever play P?

[Sambo83]

yea.. toss is prolly still my best race, but I been playin all zerg lately

[blupp74]

yea.. toss is prolly still my best race, but I been playin all zerg lately

...and even though this is a terribly subjective question, how would you say you fare against the likes of Ahzz, lammy and Cpt.Chronic?

Ie, at which level are you?

I haven't seen you around since when I first started posting (when I was playing fastmaps), which was...ages ago.

[Sambo83]

uhh.. i think i had some good game with ahzz back in the day.. cpt. whatever is a noob (lol not erally.. i just remember i used to make fun of him idk why).. and i've never played lammy.

[blupp74]

uhh.. i think i had some good game with ahzz back in the day.. cpt. whatever is a noob (lol not erally.. i just remember i used to make fun of him idk why).. and i've never played lammy.

I don't know where your standards for noob goes, but I'd say cpt is far from noob.

haven't seen him against ahzz or lammy, but I think he'd give them both a good match (not simultaneously though, of course)

[Glordag]

hydra/lurk is main line zvt, at least the last time I followed what "progamers" were doing.. although the kor kor strategy I been usin lately is 9 pool speeds into muta into muta/lurk -> lurk/ling -> ultra/ling.

I definitely think hydras have their uses, but I'm sure the biggest factor is proportion, especially with zerg where you have such a large amount of units. I can certainly see the arguments for zerglings over hydras in a terran matchup, though. It's simple enough to see where the speed and swarming ability can be a huge help against tanks and ranged units in general. I'm sure it's mostly preference. I think the main thing is just to make sure you don't rely on -too- many hydras. They die way too easily and don't make a great front-liner insomuch as a support unit, to me. It's odd saying that now, though, after having used them so effectively en masse in vanilla SC. *sigh* how I miss those days :P

[GroG]

It's not that hydra alone are that awesome, it's the strategy hydra/lurk combo in ZvT that makes them good. Basically the hydra soak+do decent damage while lurker burrows and then rape.

Not to mention you flank and all that crap.