A noob needs help with zerg.

[JohnM81]

I started playing starcraft recently. I live in a apartment at college with five other guys and we set up a network and play sc a lot. Its a pretty cool setup. I have been doing pretty well with the zerg but one of my roomates has just started a new strategy that has beat me 100% of the time. And its driving me nuts. I am zerg he is p.

He builds three zealots and rushes me. At that point I have enough forces to kill those three but what he does is ignore my zerglings and goes straight for my drones. By time I kill his zealots he has killed 2 or 3 of my drones and then two more zealots show up to kill more drones. The first set of zealots arrive just about a min or so after my pool is done. At that point I have 2 hats 10 or so drones and about 8ish lings. So losing a drone or two really hurts and puts me totally on D while his probes mine and make more zealots without competition.

I have tried the following:


1. Build lots of sunks.
He ignores the sunks with his zealots and still is able to kill some drones. Losing drones to zealots plus losing drones to making sunks cripples my economy while he is mining without interference.

2. Change build order to making nine drones, 1 OL, 3 drones, pool, and making lots of zerglings to engage him in the middle of the map so he can't hit my drones.
At first, it looked like this was the thing to do. But without a second hat I was slowly losing zerglings faster than I could make them. slowly but surely he pushed me back into my base and then started to kill my drones once again.

3. My next attempt will be to build even more sunks but in a way that makes it hard to get to my drones. Ill try to box them in and see if I can block the ways to them with zerglings on "hold ground" command on. I wonder if this will work?







So any help you guys can give this noob would be great. Oh, btw, I am not playing BW. Being most of my roomates are spawned copies of SC.




Thanks.

[Alexisonfire]

block ramp with lings or move drones when he comes by (stacking them on 1 mineral then when hes close atack move and the zlots will start walking all over the drones but can't attack)

btw give which map u play on and patch version

edit: save replays and send too

[Superiorwolf]

Make at least one sunk in where your people mine, that should help a little so the zealots are under constant fire

[JohnM81]

I am 1.14 version I think. (The version that battlenet patches you to)

I am playing on challenger map so there really isn't a "ramp" that is tight enough to block the zealots from getting into my base.

[JohnM81]

Make at least one sunk in where your people mine, that should help a little so the zealots are under constant fire



I do that, and that wont help. He has no problem losing 2-3 zealots to wipe out drones. Sure, he might be losing more minerals piece wise, but when you add the lost income from a lack of drones AND making new ones he comes out on top.

[Superiorwolf]

You could move your drones away, saving their lives, but damaging your economy for a short period of time
I'd go with the ramp one though, so you can get reinforcements to take out the zealots

[MatGeo]

You should play on better maps like LT(lost temple) it's very balanced it has a ramp which can be blocked too so it should help.

[Alexisonfire]

challenger? 4 pool

yo matty u better get on bnet more this week

[MatGeo]

challenger? 4 pool

yo matty u better get on bnet more this week

I'd love to but i posted a thread stating that i have problems logging on to US servers i can only log on to europe and asia and i don't know how to fix the problem it may be temporary although it's been going on for 4 or 5 days.

[JohnM81]

You could move your drones away, saving their lives, but damaging your economy for a short period of time
I'd go with the ramp one though, so you can get reinforcements to take out the zealots


I did do that, but what I found was if I don't move them my economy suffers from loss of drones. If I do move them he is shutting down my economy every time he attacks while he continues to mine without interference. And consider he is trickling in with two - three zealots. Either way he is winning and I am being put on D.

[JohnM81]

You should play on better maps like LT(lost temple) it's very balanced it has a ramp which can be blocked too so it should help.


Ill take a look at it thanks.



(Is that a standard SC map? or do I have to dl it?)

[Alexisonfire]

think about it hes wasting 300 minerals with getting 3 zlots killed by doing nothing but how much u really stand to lose in a short amount of time of microing ur drones?

lt is in ladder maps and its the standard east map only map more commonly played i think is luna (u dl that)

matt whats ur euro name we'll play there buddy

[MatGeo]

Euro name is MatGeo.WB i usually hang around in the op swbk channel on europe(which is empty but i can't stand allthe adverts in the chat room). I'll be on for the next 2 hours if u want to play.

[Superiorwolf]

Yeah, 3 zealots cost way more than say, 4 drones.

LT is a standard broodwar map, though there are some different downloadable versions of it.
I think it's in ladder section, but Iunno

[GroG]

You should really read Testie's 9 pool guide, this is a great situation where that would help you. Google it.

The jist is that you want to 9 ovie 9 pool, when spawning pool is half done save larvae (you should get 3 larvae right when pool, finishes). You should scout with opening overlord (if it's a 4 player map, scout w/ overlord and 9th drone) Then spawn 6 lings, then spawn another set of 2 lings, bringing you to 8. Expand, and power drones. You should be going to his base with the 6 lings (and the next 2). If he has blocked his ramp, park a ways outside with your lings, and hold position a "point guard" ling at the bottom of his ramp. Continue to use your scouting overlord to see if he's teching, or pumping lots. If he continues making lots, don't power drones as hard, and make more lings (or creep colonies).

Right after you make your expansion, somewhere around 14-16 supply, get gas, and then choose either speed for lings, or tech to lair. Speed for lings if you make more lings, or get lair if you are going to rely on sunkens.

That should get you past the beginning. If you have enough lings to break his ramp right at the beginning, do it. If you don't, just delay him until expo/creep colonies (and later sunkens when he moves out) gets online. Another option is running around while he moves out and running into his base.

Pressure will delay him. gl

[JohnM81]

Well, I played a game today where I was able to defeat his strategy. Here is what I did...

1. I played on LT a 4 player map. So he didn't start off knowing exactly where I was at. This was a significant delay for him.

2. I built my buildings around my minerals to form almost a protective wall around my drones. The spaces inbetween them I put a ling. That way he couldn't just rush in kill my drones he had to contend with my sunks. This he wasn't able to do.

[JohnM81]

You should really read Testie's 9 pool guide, this is a great situation where that would help you. Google it.

The jist is that you want to 9 ovie 9 pool, when spawning pool is half done save larvae (you should get 3 larvae right when pool, finishes). You should scout with opening overlord (if it's a 4 player map, scout w/ overlord and 9th drone) Then spawn 6 lings, then spawn another set of 2 lings, bringing you to 8. Expand, and power drones. You should be going to his base with the 6 lings (and the next 2). If he has blocked his ramp, park a ways outside with your lings, and hold position a "point guard" ling at the bottom of his ramp. Continue to use your scouting overlord to see if he's teching, or pumping lots. If he continues making lots, don't power drones as hard, and make more lings (or creep colonies).

Right after you make your expansion, somewhere around 14-16 supply, get gas, and then choose either speed for lings, or tech to lair. Speed for lings if you make more lings, or get lair if you are going to rely on sunkens.

That should get you past the beginning. If you have enough lings to break his ramp right at the beginning, do it. If you don't, just delay him until expo/creep colonies (and later sunkens when he moves out) gets online. Another option is running around while he moves out and running into his base.

Pressure will delay him. gl


So what you are saying is 9 drones, ovie, 9 drones, then pool? So you are saying don't make a second hat?


What I have been doing is:

9 drones
1 ove
1 hat
3 drones
pool & extractor
up to 15 drones
lings and sunks
hydras
expand

usually I can get to hydras in 6.5 min.

[Ahzz]

that is an almost working bo. though I'd change away the hydras unless he's camping at your ramp or something, because unless you get fairly fast expo, hydras just take too much minerals to be worth it. I'd rather do a bit more drones and lings and prevent his expoing and possibly moving out all together, while you still have good economy running. So leave hydras out, expand, and then start hydras possibly, you'll get better economy then.

[TheBlackAbyss]

Also, as a comment for you're old strat...
Send the lings into his base as he's hitting yours. Cripple his economy in return. Zerg produce faster than other races, and he'll probably have to withdraw his own attack to save his economy which is more precious to P than it is to Z.

[JohnM81]

that is an almost working bo. though I'd change away the hydras unless he's camping at your ramp or something, because unless you get fairly fast expo, hydras just take too much minerals to be worth it. I'd rather do a bit more drones and lings and prevent his expoing and possibly moving out all together, while you still have good economy running. So leave hydras out, expand, and then start hydras possibly, you'll get better economy then.


Interesting. I will give that a try.

[GroG]

you can either make your second hat at your expo, or in your main. 2 hat speedlings is safe vs. toss, but on a bit farther positions 2nd hat at expo is usually quite safe too.

the main thing is getting those lings earlier, and using pressure or a contain to delay him and not allow those 3 zealots to pressure your drones.

[Sambo83]

he didn't start off knowing exactly where I was at. This was a significant delay for him.
LMAO!!

BTW, ur on the right track with the 12 pool. That's the build I use against a toss I've never played before. I usually forgo the gas (ling speed isn't as good with a 12 pool cuz ur not gunna get past his ramp anyhow).. put my 2nd hat in expo, and then a 3rd hat in my base.. either powering drones or making ling depending on how many zlots he makes, then gas and hydra after powering enough to fill my expo with drones.

But eh... the beauty of zvp is there's so many different things you can do that are all effective in their own way.

[PrestonBurke]

Well you could build at vespene harvester at 8, then research burrowing. So when his zealots come calling, burrow. Thats what i do, but its underhanded because it slows down your minearl harvesting and your ablitiy to get out zerglings.

[kharaa]

with your sunkans, keep them reletively near your minerals.

if all else fails, rush him. zerg are supposed to be the masters at that.

[MrBobby]

have you tried doing the same to him?? 9 pool him. your lings will be there ... when he has 1 zealot? i should think? go straight for his probes. run away from his zealots. hit the probes again. he will either have to go straight to cannons (a BIG disadvantage, he prob won't do this if he's any good) or just kill you with good probe micro. but as you said, you disrupt his econ, and if you have good skills you can keep mining etc while you're microing lings.
here's the build i would use for 9 pool
9 pool
another drone
extractor
another drone
lord
wait for pool to finish, saving up mins
make 6 lings
attack
soon as you have 300 mins, make expansion (while attacking)

i've never actually been in the situation you described, it was just a suggestion
gl

[blupp74]

have you tried doing the same to him?? 9 pool him. your lings will be there ... when he has 1 zealot? i should think? go straight for his probes. run away from his zealots. hit the probes again. he will either have to go straight to cannons (a BIG disadvantage, he prob won't do this if he's any good) or just kill you with good probe micro. but as you said, you disrupt his econ, and if you have good skills you can keep mining etc while you're microing lings.
here's the build i would use for 9 pool
9 pool
another drone
extractor
another drone
lord
wait for pool to finish, saving up mins
make 6 lings
attack
soon as you have 300 mins, make expansion (while attacking)

i've never actually been in the situation you described, it was just a suggestion
gl

I'm no Z player, and hardly a P player either, but I think P will have atleast 2 zealots by the time the lings get there. Or atleast 1 zealot with the 2nd one coming out. If there is a ramp that zealot will be blocking it with probes behind it (since he will most likely have scouted your rush) so depending on the map it might be difficult to get through the choke.

[ShadeZ]

6 lings > 2 zealots ;D


Until zealots get upgs

In that situation tho you get a couple probes and you win

[Cpt.Chronic]

6 lings > 2 zealots ;D


Not if you micro- even if you don't micro it'd be pretty close, not sure who would win, but if you use just 1 probe I know the zealots would win. Also you shouldn't fight lings on open ground unless you have no other choice. For example, pull your zealots back to the gap between your 2 gateways or back to your probes or in the small gap behind minerals. In all of these situations 2 zeals easily beat 6 lings.

[MrBobby]

quite possibly true.... but the point of rushing (either 4 pool, 9 pool, 12, or anything else) in this case isn't to kill his zealots and destroy him totally. it's to distract, annoy, and slow down his econ, while you can build yours inimpeded. thus instead of going head to head with his zealots, run from the zealots and keep hitting probes. micro to stop your lings dying. objective complete. yes, i think 9 pool is 1 zealot made 1 zealot nearly made. you're unlikely to beat him, but yeh..... that's not the point......